Author Topic: Political Humor  (Read 126873 times)

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Offline lonestar

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Re: Political Humor
« Reply #2380 on: March 03, 2020, 07:26:14 AM »

Offline The Walrus

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Re: Political Humor
« Reply #2381 on: March 03, 2020, 07:28:57 AM »
Quote
You CAN dislike Michelle Obama.  But if you are going to make a post ridiculing her to a group of people on a forum, you run the risk of people disagreeing with you.  Especially if there is no obvious justification/reason for the attempt at humor other than being a hater/misogynist/racist (which we don't know as there has been no explanation from Tick).  I don't think the group is saying Tick can't THINK anything....but that he should THINK a bit more before posting perhaps?

Eric, this exact same thing can be said for those who post ridiculing Trump. Not to speak for Stadler (as I know he ignores you, so he won't reply anyway) but... why should one have to 'think' before mocking Michelle Obama but not have to think before mocking Trump? At the very least just own up to it, you want to mock the guy because it feels a little good having some sort of control against him. I can admit that. Perfectly fine. But this double standard for justifying mockery is a bit odd from a logical perspective

But as explained in previous posts, the mocking of Trump are usually done in response to something Trump has said or done.  The group does not see the reason for the mocking of Michelle Obama.  Maybe Tick will enlighten us with the background for his post.

Should we be silent about a mocking post about anyone?  What about Obamas children? Holocaust survivors? Obviously as a society, we draw lines for acceptable behavior.  The majority of this group drew a line about mocking Michelle Obamas appearance, absent any explanation from Tick.  Now if there is something Michelle Obama said or did that opens her up to ridicule on her appearance, then just like Trump, society or the group likely says it's ok.  But we tend to frown on attacking the innocent in this society. 

Mocking someone who is considered a very good and nice person, good looking, and a positive force in our society....solely based on looks...appears to have crossed that line.  Without any further explanation from Tick, I do not see the problem.

What's the verdict on mocking Trump for being fat, then, or mocking Melania for not being a good FLOTUS (all observations she wants nothing to do with this), or Baron for being a rich spoiled brat? Not trying to stir the pot, it's a genuine question. Do we really think we have legitimate justifications for this, or can we just be honest and say it feels good to attack an old ignorant jagaloon?

Offline Dave_Manchester

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Re: Political Humor
« Reply #2382 on: March 03, 2020, 07:39:13 AM »
But the counter point to the last couple posts is simple:  you have done your own calculus, and decided where the line is.  It should be okay for others to do the same without judgment or ridicule, no?  Why CAN'T someone dislike Michelle Obama? 

They can, but it's difficult (for me anyway) not to form an opinion of somebody based on the criteria they use for disliking someone.

I dislike Donald Trump because I find him to be a shameless idiot. He celebrates ignorance and attacks knowledge. Therefore I will mock his imbecilic speech patterns and 50-word vocabulary. It's inherently funny to me to have a person use the language of a dim-witted toddler to profess himself the world's foremost genius in every subject under the sun. I don't want to live in a world where somebody begins a 'speech' with "Nobody knows more about windmills than me", goes on to deliver a hilariously stupid take on wind energy, and doesn't get laughed at. I don't want to live in a world where the American president uses a Sharpie to alter a map in order to 'show' that he was right and America's leading meteorologists were wrong, and he doesn't get ridiculed for it.

On the other hand, it would be nice to live in a world where somebody doesn't get mocked for nothing more than how they look.  And that to me is the difference between the mockery of Trump and that of Michelle Obama (at least as apparently expressed here). I don't think anybody dislikes Donald Trump because of his physical features. I think they just find it ironic that this obese old man with orange skin and a silly haircut takes every opportunity to make unprovoked attacks on people's appearances, so they use his own ludicrous appearance as a way of highlighting his stupidity and hypocrisy. I tend to dismiss most of his attacks on people but his comment about Carly Fiorina ("Look at that face. Would anyone vote for that?") I found especially nasty and offensive. The question is what to do in that situation. Ignore it? Possibly. Point out that the narcissist saying "Look at that face" looks utterly absurd himself? Also possibly. 

You (Stadler) don't especially like Michelle Obama. I am 100% sure that has zero to do with her appearance. To me however there is a difference between you and somebody who dislikes her because of her appearance. That's not to say such people shouldn't be allowed to do that. People are free to hate for whatever reason they want, just as I'm free to point out why I think they're idiots. But you often ask "What's the difference between mocking Trump and mocking Michelle Obama?", and I'd say it depends entirely on who is attacking them and why. The day Michelle Obama spends half her life attacking the physical appearances of people she dislikes is the day we can more justifiably scrutinise her own appearance. Until that day we're left with only being able to attack her record as a person, a mother, a First Lady, a graduate of Harvard Law School, and a lawyer with an incredibly impressive resume stretching back 30 years.

Which presumably explains why "hurr hurr look at the ugly black freak in the picture" is all they can come up with.

Offline eric42434224

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Re: Political Humor
« Reply #2383 on: March 03, 2020, 07:42:44 AM »
Quote
You CAN dislike Michelle Obama.  But if you are going to make a post ridiculing her to a group of people on a forum, you run the risk of people disagreeing with you.  Especially if there is no obvious justification/reason for the attempt at humor other than being a hater/misogynist/racist (which we don't know as there has been no explanation from Tick).  I don't think the group is saying Tick can't THINK anything....but that he should THINK a bit more before posting perhaps?

Eric, this exact same thing can be said for those who post ridiculing Trump. Not to speak for Stadler (as I know he ignores you, so he won't reply anyway) but... why should one have to 'think' before mocking Michelle Obama but not have to think before mocking Trump? At the very least just own up to it, you want to mock the guy because it feels a little good having some sort of control against him. I can admit that. Perfectly fine. But this double standard for justifying mockery is a bit odd from a logical perspective

But as explained in previous posts, the mocking of Trump are usually done in response to something Trump has said or done.  The group does not see the reason for the mocking of Michelle Obama.  Maybe Tick will enlighten us with the background for his post.

Should we be silent about a mocking post about anyone?  What about Obamas children? Holocaust survivors? Obviously as a society, we draw lines for acceptable behavior.  The majority of this group drew a line about mocking Michelle Obamas appearance, absent any explanation from Tick.  Now if there is something Michelle Obama said or did that opens her up to ridicule on her appearance, then just like Trump, society or the group likely says it's ok.  But we tend to frown on attacking the innocent in this society. 

Mocking someone who is considered a very good and nice person, good looking, and a positive force in our society....solely based on looks...appears to have crossed that line.  Without any further explanation from Tick, I do not see the problem.

What's the verdict on mocking Trump for being fat, then, or mocking Melania for not being a good FLOTUS (all observations she wants nothing to do with this), or Baron for being a rich spoiled brat? Not trying to stir the pot, it's a genuine question. Do we really think we have legitimate justifications for this, or can we just be honest and say it feels good to attack an old ignorant jagaloon?

Maybe it feels good.  But I truly think that is not the point.
I think, at least in this culture and forum, it is ok to mock Trump about things that he brings into play.  Same goes with other people in public. 

If Melania starts a program about the harm of bullying, and never calls out her HUSBAND the POTUS, then that is fair game.  To post a pic of Melania as the Steve Howe from Yes, saying she has let herself go....would likely get a similar response from the group.  A response of...."hey, can you expand on this joke?  We don't get the reference, and it seems a bit harsh".  If there is no further explanation, I would think the group says it crosses a line.

As I edited in my previous post, it goes the same with the children.  I don't think negative posts about either Obama or Trump (minor) children would be tolerated here.  Society as a whole has pushed back on that.  It appears that there is also a line for mostly innocent First Lady's as well here.

EDIT: and what Dave said above.  Goddamn that motherfucker is eloquent.  Fuck.  Sometimes I just won't [post, fully expecting Dave to post exactly what Im thinking, but in a much better way lol.
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Offline lonestar

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Re: Political Humor
« Reply #2384 on: March 03, 2020, 07:43:17 AM »
Again, Donnie invites the criticism with his endless criticism of others. When the emporor comes out nude, are we supposed to pretend his clothes are amazing, or do we point out his nudity?

Offline The Walrus

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Re: Political Humor
« Reply #2385 on: March 03, 2020, 07:45:08 AM »
To be clear, my argument is more of one about human psychology rather than politics. I'm just riffing on why we, as a species, behave the way we do and justify it, whether it's constructive or beneficial in the long run or not.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Political Humor
« Reply #2386 on: March 03, 2020, 07:48:01 AM »
What’s the old saying .... respect is earned? 

Yeah, and with all due respect, that's a really dumb saying.  An inability to give respect to other human beings, whether subjectively deemed to have been "earned" or not, is a serious character flaw, at worst, and not "constructive or beneficial" (thanks, Katt) at best.
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Offline eric42434224

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Re: Political Humor
« Reply #2387 on: March 03, 2020, 07:54:09 AM »
What’s the old saying .... respect is earned? 

Yeah, and with all due respect, that's a really dumb saying.  An inability to give respect to other human beings, whether subjectively deemed to have been "earned" or not, is a serious character flaw, at worst, and not "constructive or beneficial" (thanks, Katt) at best.

I agree, to a point.  We should afford others a certain level of respect as a baseline.  But respect/decency can certainly be lost with poor behavior, and there are many different types of respect.  However, higher levels of respect, trust, reverence, love, followership, etc can be earned, and I think that is what Jingle might be referring to.

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Offline bosk1

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Re: Political Humor
« Reply #2388 on: March 03, 2020, 08:02:52 AM »
...However, higher levels of respect, trust, reverence, love, followership, etc can be earned, and I think that is what Jingle might be referring to.

Very good point.  And I don't really disagree with that at all.  And I guess, with that pointed out, I have to retract my statement up to a point.  The problem isn't that the saying itself is bad or dumb--it's just that, as with a lot of things, it does not get applied properly.  As you have applied it, it is right on point.  But that brand of "respect" is not what is being discussed, and there was an attempt to apply it across the board.
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Offline eric42434224

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Re: Political Humor
« Reply #2389 on: March 03, 2020, 08:10:54 AM »
...However, higher levels of respect, trust, reverence, love, followership, etc can be earned, and I think that is what Jingle might be referring to.

Very good point.  And I don't really disagree with that at all.  And I guess, with that pointed out, I have to retract my statement up to a point.  The problem isn't that the saying itself is bad or dumb--it's just that, as with a lot of things, it does not get applied properly.  As you have applied it, it is right on point.  But that brand of "respect" is not what is being discussed, and there was an attempt to apply it across the board.

But as I pointed out, that baseline respect (which is what I think you are talking about here) can be lost with poor behavior.  If a person mocks and ridicules other peoples appearance constantly, then that person may lose some of that baseline respect we would give a stranger.  We would not look kindly on ridiculing a stranger on their looks....that basic respect is there.  But with the volumes of documented public instances of Trump mocking/insulting/degrading/ridiculing others for their looks (not to mention the untold instances not on the public record), do we as a society still give him that same basic respect to not mock him for his appearance?  I think as a society, he has rightfully lost that basic respect.
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Re: Political Humor
« Reply #2390 on: March 03, 2020, 08:26:00 AM »
But the counter point to the last couple posts is simple:  you have done your own calculus, and decided where the line is.  It should be okay for others to do the same without judgment or ridicule, no?  Why CAN'T someone dislike Michelle Obama?   I'm not really a fan either, but isn't that for me to decide based on the last couple posts?   To go further, why are some people - myself included - get mocked/blocked/banned for being a "Russian Bot" for deciding that I DON'T want to "attack" the bully in the same way?   It's a touchy subject here, because there are possibly other considerations, but I'm not exactly spewing radical stuff; arguing that Schiff perhaps jumped the gun on the obstruction charge (there was a pending court case in the Federal system that was going to decide the very question of the dispute between the Trump Administration and the House Committee, but he decided that the Courts didn't matter - irony! - and went ahead anyway).  That's not racist, misogynistic, or any other -phobic/-istic, so why isn't the

It's not what we say but how. Plus aren't you doing the same thing you're accusing us of doing? Telling us to stop saying things that might offend someone?

Also, none of us know exactly why Tick posted what he did.

But if I put this picture up, we can all agree it's racist because it's been known to be racist. What's the big difference?



I'm not even going to provide context. We can all look at that pic and get the racism. I doubt anyone would respond with "Well....are you saying someone CAN'T disprove of Israeli policy?" because that's not the point at all and is just arguing for the sake of it.
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Offline cramx3

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Re: Political Humor
« Reply #2391 on: March 03, 2020, 08:38:49 AM »
arguing for the sake of it.

Sums up a lot of this thread recently

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Re: Political Humor
« Reply #2392 on: March 03, 2020, 08:40:08 AM »
arguing for the sake of it.

Sums up a lot of this thread recently

I disagree!

jk
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Offline axeman90210

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Re: Political Humor
« Reply #2393 on: March 03, 2020, 09:05:04 AM »
But the counter point to the last couple posts is simple:  you have done your own calculus, and decided where the line is.  It should be okay for others to do the same without judgment or ridicule, no?  Why CAN'T someone dislike Michelle Obama? 

They can, but it's difficult (for me anyway) not to form an opinion of somebody based on the criteria they use for disliking someone.

I dislike Donald Trump because I find him to be a shameless idiot. He celebrates ignorance and attacks knowledge. Therefore I will mock his imbecilic speech patterns and 50-word vocabulary. It's inherently funny to me to have a person use the language of a dim-witted toddler to profess himself the world's foremost genius in every subject under the sun. I don't want to live in a world where somebody begins a 'speech' with "Nobody knows more about windmills than me", goes on to deliver a hilariously stupid take on wind energy, and doesn't get laughed at. I don't want to live in a world where the American president uses a Sharpie to alter a map in order to 'show' that he was right and America's leading meteorologists were wrong, and he doesn't get ridiculed for it.

On the other hand, it would be nice to live in a world where somebody doesn't get mocked for nothing more than how they look.  And that to me is the difference between the mockery of Trump and that of Michelle Obama (at least as apparently expressed here). I don't think anybody dislikes Donald Trump because of his physical features. I think they just find it ironic that this obese old man with orange skin and a silly haircut takes every opportunity to make unprovoked attacks on people's appearances, so they use his own ludicrous appearance as a way of highlighting his stupidity and hypocrisy. I tend to dismiss most of his attacks on people but his comment about Carly Fiorina ("Look at that face. Would anyone vote for that?") I found especially nasty and offensive. The question is what to do in that situation. Ignore it? Possibly. Point out that the narcissist saying "Look at that face" looks utterly absurd himself? Also possibly. 

You (Stadler) don't especially like Michelle Obama. I am 100% sure that has zero to do with her appearance. To me however there is a difference between you and somebody who dislikes her because of her appearance. That's not to say such people shouldn't be allowed to do that. People are free to hate for whatever reason they want, just as I'm free to point out why I think they're idiots. But you often ask "What's the difference between mocking Trump and mocking Michelle Obama?", and I'd say it depends entirely on who is attacking them and why. The day Michelle Obama spends half her life attacking the physical appearances of people she dislikes is the day we can more justifiably scrutinise her own appearance. Until that day we're left with only being able to attack her record as a person, a mother, a First Lady, a graduate of Harvard Law School, and a lawyer with an incredibly impressive resume stretching back 30 years.

Which presumably explains why "hurr hurr look at the ugly black freak in the picture" is all they can come up with.

With all due respect to the other thread, the Dave Manchester problem I have is the number of times I'm reading this forum and think I have something to say, only to then come across one of Dave's posts that's a significantly more well developed and eloquent version of what I had in my head.

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Offline eric42434224

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Re: Political Humor
« Reply #2394 on: March 03, 2020, 09:10:17 AM »

With all due respect to the other thread, the Dave Manchester problem I have is the number of times I'm reading this forum and think I have something to say, only to then come across one of Dave's posts that's a significantly more well developed and eloquent version of what I had in my head.





EDIT: and what Dave said above.  Goddamn that motherfucker is eloquent.  Fuck.  Sometimes I just won't post, fully expecting Dave to post exactly what Im thinking, but in a much better way lol.


 :lol
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Offline The Walrus

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Re: Political Humor
« Reply #2395 on: March 03, 2020, 09:41:51 AM »
I disagree that this is arguing for the sake of arguing. That's only true if you're not getting anything out of the discussion. I find these informative. It's not simply about agreeing or disagreeing, I think this whole subforum is a useful venue for understanding how other people view the world.

Offline lonestar

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Re: Political Humor
« Reply #2396 on: March 03, 2020, 10:04:55 AM »
arguing for the sake of it.

Sums up a lot of this thread recently

I disagree!

jk

That's not an argument, that's a contradiction.

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Political Humor
« Reply #2397 on: March 03, 2020, 10:34:07 AM »
arguing for the sake of it.

Sums up a lot of this thread recently

I disagree!

jk

That's not an argument, that's a contradiction.
Look, if I *argue* with you, I must take up a contrary position!
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Re: Political Humor
« Reply #2398 on: March 03, 2020, 10:57:01 AM »
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Re: Political Humor
« Reply #2399 on: March 03, 2020, 11:00:03 AM »
I disagree that this is arguing for the sake of arguing. That's only true if you're not getting anything out of the discussion. I find these informative. It's not simply about agreeing or disagreeing, I think this whole subforum is a useful venue for understanding how other people view the world.

Totally, but there are definitely times where people enjoy the sport of debating/arguing/etc and extend things pretty far for that reason, and when the other person is just trying to get a point out, it can be a little exhausting at times.
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Offline lonestar

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Re: Political Humor
« Reply #2400 on: March 03, 2020, 01:28:45 PM »

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Re: Political Humor
« Reply #2401 on: March 03, 2020, 01:31:08 PM »
I disagree that this is arguing for the sake of arguing. That's only true if you're not getting anything out of the discussion. I find these informative. It's not simply about agreeing or disagreeing, I think this whole subforum is a useful venue for understanding how other people view the world.

Totally, but there are definitely times where people enjoy the sport of debating/arguing/etc and extend things pretty far for that reason, and when the other person is just trying to get a point out, it can be a little exhausting at times.

Yup, there's always lots of good discussion here, but sometimes the discussions just drag a bit and it's the same points back and forth and everything else is buried.  Like seriously, only Lonestar caught this??  :lol

What a chocker

:clap:

Offline lonestar

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Re: Political Humor
« Reply #2402 on: March 03, 2020, 01:49:40 PM »
:RJ:

Offline eric42434224

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Re: Political Humor
« Reply #2403 on: March 03, 2020, 02:07:01 PM »
I disagree that this is arguing for the sake of arguing. That's only true if you're not getting anything out of the discussion. I find these informative. It's not simply about agreeing or disagreeing, I think this whole subforum is a useful venue for understanding how other people view the world.

Totally, but there are definitely times where people enjoy the sport of debating/arguing/etc and extend things pretty far for that reason, and when the other person is just trying to get a point out, it can be a little exhausting at times.

Yup, there's always lots of good discussion here, but sometimes the discussions just drag a bit and it's the same points back and forth and everything else is buried.  Like seriously, only Lonestar caught this??  :lol

What a chocker

:clap:

LOL, when I saw it first, I thought you were calling someone here (maybe me?) a name....a name the youngsters use that I don't know.  Then I ran across a story online about it and laughed.  Didn't mention it after the fact as I didn't want to out myself as uninformed (like I just did)
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Re: Political Humor
« Reply #2404 on: March 03, 2020, 02:14:13 PM »
 :rollin definitely wasn't actually calling anyone a chocker, had just woke up (I'm off today), saw that tweet and came here to see if anyone had joked about it, which they had not but this discussion was still ongoing so I threw that out there as a way to shake it up a bit and things just kept going  :lol

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Re: Political Humor
« Reply #2405 on: March 03, 2020, 02:53:04 PM »
When I read it, I spit covfefe all over my monitor.
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Re: Political Humor
« Reply #2406 on: March 04, 2020, 07:20:07 AM »

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Re: Political Humor
« Reply #2407 on: March 04, 2020, 09:16:53 AM »
Yeah, baby, yeah!!  :lol :lol

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Re: Political Humor
« Reply #2408 on: March 04, 2020, 09:23:48 AM »
Who is that and wow.

She's like the perfect blend of Austin and Velma.
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Re: Political Humor
« Reply #2409 on: March 04, 2020, 11:06:37 AM »

Damn... Michelle Obama has really let herself go. :'(

I am not sure if this is a reference to something I missed (since I'm not super up on American news) or if you just took a picture of a random not good looking black character and used to insult Michelle Obama, who is also black.

I truly, and sincerely, hope it was the former.

Nope, no reference to anything I am aware of.  Looks to be the latter...and I'm really not surprised.
It's Blacula which is an iconic 70's vampire who looks like Michele Obama. She should be honored. Don't you agree?

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Re: Political Humor
« Reply #2410 on: March 04, 2020, 11:20:53 AM »
Blacula is neither iconic nor looks like Michelle Obama.
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Re: Political Humor
« Reply #2411 on: March 04, 2020, 11:24:22 AM »
I'm not sure anybody would be 'honored' to be compared to that picture

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Re: Political Humor
« Reply #2412 on: March 04, 2020, 11:30:45 AM »
He's trolling.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2020, 11:40:23 AM by Chino »

Online Adami

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Re: Political Humor
« Reply #2413 on: March 04, 2020, 11:37:08 AM »
Tick, my man, I know you're a decent guy, but I am personally pretty offended by both that picture and your most recent comment. I know that wasn't your intention, but it was an effect either way.
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Offline Chino

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Re: Political Humor
« Reply #2414 on: March 04, 2020, 11:40:08 AM »
Tick, my man, I know you're a decent guy, but I am personally pretty offended by both that picture and your most recent comment. I know that wasn't your intention, but it was an effect either way.

Yes it was.   

It's the MAGA mentality.