Big Big Train v. "The Likes Of Us" OUT NOW; European Tour Sept/Oct 2024!

[nobloodyname]

The Strangest Times is quite possibly the most on-the-nose song I've ever heard. Cringeworthy, I'm afraid. Hope the rest is better.

[The Letter M]

"Common ground" also appears in Theodora in Green and Gold off the previous album.

Watching the video for "Brew And Burgh" on YouTube just now and realized that "common ground" also appears in that song. I guess they've had the idea in their heads a lot over the last few years.

Before their next release, I should make a BBT Words/Lyrics Bingo Card and throw in a bunch of words and phrases they've used for lyrics a lot over the years - hedgerow, shoreline, meadow(land), far skies, science, art, steam, etc. - it'll take a lot of time to compile 24 distinct enough bits of lyrics but I'm sure I could come up with a solid bingo card before their next release of original material! 

-Marc.

[HOF]

"Common ground" also appears in Theodora in Green and Gold off the previous album.

Watching the video for "Brew And Burgh" on YouTube just now and realized that "common ground" also appears in that song. I guess they've had the idea in their heads a lot over the last few years.

Before their next release, I should make a BBT Words/Lyrics Bingo Card and throw in a bunch of words and phrases they've used for lyrics a lot over the years - hedgerow, shoreline, meadow(land), far skies, science, art, steam, etc. - it'll take a lot of time to compile 24 distinct enough bits of lyrics but I'm sure I could come up with a solid bingo card before their next release of original material! 

-Marc.

“Gone to ground” is one that GS uses quite often, back to the early days of the band (I know it appears on English Boy Wonders, most recently on Roman Stone, but several points between as well. Haven’t caught it on Common Ground yet).

[Fritzinger]

The Strangest Times is quite possibly the most on-the-nose song I've ever heard. Cringeworthy, I'm afraid. Hope the rest is better.

The rest is better, much better!

Actually, in my opinion, if they had left off The Strangest Times from this album, it would have been an even better album. Because the other songs are really good. I love that they went away from the pastoral, epic and slower sound of Grand Tour again. I think this was a conscious decision, as I have read many criticisms that the band has gone "too soft". In fact, I would love another Underfall Yard, a dark, progressive and restless album. But I don't think that will happen.

Either way, I like Common Ground a lot, but The Strangest Times is still expendable But Black With Ink and All The Love are awesome with their unconventional harmony progressions and strange atmosphere.

[RoeDent]

I wonder if we feel awkward about The Strangest Times because we've all experienced it. People don't (always) complain about love songs being "too on the nose", and that's because not everyone has experienced what it's like to be in love or to lose a love. That and it's from an incredibly tunnel-vision-British perspective.

[Fritzinger]

I wonder if we feel awkward about The Strangest Times because we've all experienced it. People don't (always) complain about love songs being "too on the nose", and that's because not everyone has experienced what it's like to be in love or to lose a love. That and it's from an incredibly tunnel-vision-British perspective.

Nah, I think the music is too poppy as well. I like well-crafted pop (I also liked Alive), but this is just a little too upbeat and flat for my taste.

[HOF]

I had the same negative first impression of the lyrics on The Strangest Times (you can go back and find my post about it), but it has grown on me big time as a song. I love how upbeat it is, and there is some really fun playing on it. I love the guitar solo. And it sets up the overall theme of the album well. This is our current obstacle to overcome to stay "connected," just like the burning of the ancient library or the laying of the Atlantic cable. 

The other song I did not like when I first heard it was All the Love You Can Give. I still think the lyrics in Nick's vocal parts are pretty awkward, but I do really like the chorus and I love the opening drum groove. It has grown on me a ton.

All that to say, I don't think there is a weak spot on the album. It sounds absolutely fantastic too. One of the best mixes I've heard. I really think NDV is the star of the album, but Greg Spawton has also out-done himself on bass, and Rikard taking over keyboards has added a nice new dimension to the band.

[The Letter M]

Regarding "The Strangest Of Times", it's grown on me, especially now that I get David's intentions on the lyrics. I believe he has said they're purposely written to date the song so that in years to come when we look back on it, we can appreciate how things have gotten better since the pandemic (hopefully). I agree they do sound dated even now, but it's a good benchmark of reminding us what a crap year 2020 was for many, and that we should be hopeful for a better future as we move past it.

As for the album as a whole, it's grown on me with every listen, but I've decided to spin their whole discography in chronological order as a break from over-playing Common Ground. I listened to their first six albums last night, ending with the Remaster/Remix of The Underfall Yard. And this morning, I continued with Far Skies Deep Time, and now I'm onto EEFP. It's been fun revisiting the older stuff and it makes me more excited knowing they'll finally re-release Bard next year.

-Marc.

[soupytwist]

I think I'm in the minority here, but I honestly couldn't get into 'Grand Tour' it had its moments but it personally fell along way short of everything from 'The Underfall Yard' onwards.

I listened to 'Common Ground' this morning worried it also wouldn't connect with me - however even after just one play I felt instantly more engaged with it than I've ever done with 'Grand Tour'.

[HOF]

I think I'm in the minority here, but I honestly couldn't get into 'Grand Tour' it had its moments but it personally fell along way short of everything from 'The Underfall Yard' onwards.

I listened to 'Common Ground' this morning worried it also wouldn't connect with me - however even after just one play I felt instantly more engaged with it than I've ever done with 'Grand Tour'.

To be honest I was a little bit down on Grand Tour as well. Not that any of it was bad (and there are parts of it I really love), but on the whole I didn’t enjoy it as much as previous albums. This one does feel like a natural continuation of the sound on Grand Tour, but I agree the songs are a bit stronger and more engaging.

[The Letter M]

I guess I'm the odd one here because I loved GT when it came out and I still do. I love every piece, especially the longer epics on the album, and we get three of them! "Voyager" is especially jaw-dropping.

Likewise, I've also loved CG, and I feel like it'd be unfair to compare the two given that GT featured a a band that was half-different than the one on CG. Both have their strengths and weaknesses but they're both well done by each version of the band.

I think some of the mythologically-inspired lyrics of CG led to the band not focusing so much on those areas of inspiration this time around, and the songs are a bit more personal and emotional rather than being narratives for stories (though both approaches are good).

-Marc.

[HOF]

My favorites from Grand Tour are Alive, Pantheon, and Voyager. I’ve come to like The Florentine a lot more than I did initially. The lyrics are a bit wordy, but the instrumental portion is fun. Roman Stone has some great moments but I guess it suffers a bit from not quite being up to the standard of London Plane (sort of twin songs about two cities) for me. The lyric wasn’t as poetic as London Plane’s, and it doesn’t quite have the same impact. I do love the instrumental section on that one as well. Theodora in Green and Gold is nice but not anything special by BBT standards, and Home Song is good but also felt a bit like recycled ideas. I don’t really like Ariel much at all and it might have fit better on a Longdon solo album or something. It doesn’t fit the Grand Tour theme, and it’s just so long. I like the album a lot better without it interrupting the flow. I also hate to admit that the album cover kind of detracted from the album a bit at first. I’m over that now, but it was jarring.

[HOF]

Acoustic performance of Common Ground at Real World by Greg, David, Carly, and Dave:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?fbclid=IwAR0zw0QHYKxsZqPPRd4hKoIh0pyp8mBkAqmwOXseYDyXCrZHlbgf6Dp8mCs&v=M2eu2SPjdb4&feature=youtu.be

I really do worry a bit about a copyright claim by Seal on this one. Someone more musical than me can confirm, but they sound like the exact same key and chord progression, and the melody is not that far off. Rick Beato’s What Makes This Song Great about Kiss From a Rose went on about how unique the chord progression is on that one.

[RoeDent]

Got my CD of Common Ground today. As much as the cover art is OK, the lighthouse picture in the booklet would've made a much nicer front cover.

Anyway, favourites early on are definitely Black with Ink and Headwaters.

[goo-goo]

I've been spinning this album a lot. While it has some great moments, I still cringe with the opening track. Otherwise, it would have been a perfect album. Star of the album for me is NDV: superb drumming, great lead singing, and even better background vocals.

[Zydar]

I think Atlantic Cable is my favourite so far.

[HOF]

I've been spinning this album a lot. While it has some great moments, I still cringe with the opening track. Otherwise, it would have been a perfect album. Star of the album for me is NDV: superb drumming, great lead singing, and even better background vocals.

Nick is just amazing on the whole thing. He just gets better and better as a drummer. Just an example, the ending of Endnotes is sublime with these really subtle rolls at just the right moments.

[The Letter M]

Voyager should have been the closing track!

True. Gone are the days when an epic would be the closer, the climactic point to which an album climbs towards. It seems to be more of a cliche now to have an epic placed second-to-last, with a "comedown" song to close the album. BBT have done this on all their recent albums:

English Electric Full Power (to me and the band the definitive version of EE): East Coast Racer followed by Curator of Butterflies
Folklore: Brooklands followed by Telling the Bees
Grimspound: A Mead Hall in Winter followed by As the Crow Flies

And obviously GT does the same.

I guess you can toss on "Atlantic Cable" and "Endnotes" as well. 

Cliche or not, I enjoy it. It's a sort of breather song to help calm the listener after such a big piece, and a way to reflect upon the album as a whole. And actually, I love "Endnotes" just as much as "Curator Of Butterflies" and "Telling The Bees". Three of my favorite BBT songs, actually.

And like I pointed out in one of my first reivew posts for Grand Tour, the end-run of "Ariel"/"Voyager"/"Homesong" is some of BBT's best, but the end-run of "Common Ground"/"Atlantic Cable"/"Endnotes" is about as good to me as well. Both have different strengths, but I love each three-song run on both albums.

Got my CD of Common Ground today. As much as the cover art is OK, the lighthouse picture in the booklet would've made a much nicer front cover.

Anyway, favourites early on are definitely Black with Ink and Headwaters.

"Black With Ink" is slowly becoming a favorite of mine on the album. Everytime I listen to it, it just gets better and better. And Rikard's playing on "Headwaters" is such a beautiful way to mark the halfway point of the album, and just the way he plays the theme that Greg wrote for "Endnotes" is just so... *chef's kiss* SO GOOD.

I've been spinning this album a lot. While it has some great moments, I still cringe with the opening track. Otherwise, it would have been a perfect album. Star of the album for me is NDV: superb drumming, great lead singing, and even better background vocals.

Nick is just amazing on the whole thing. He just gets better and better as a drummer. Just an example, the ending of Endnotes is sublime with these really subtle rolls at just the right moments.

Nick has been on a roll with BBT, and his solo album last year was a stand-out for me as well, especially after having been so long since his last solo album. He is quickly becoming a star in the band, and easily one of the most underrated musicians in prog and rock in general. Between his work in Spock's Beard, Big Big Train, solo stuff, and the Rewiring Genesis album, he's got a pretty insanely high caliber discography after 26 or so years, and he just keeps getting better and better!

-Marc.

[HOF]

I’ve been jumping straight to Headwaters a lot lately as well. It’s a gorgeous piece.

[The Letter M]

Thinking about what the band could be playing on tour next year, I was trying to figure out which songs from TUY onward the band haven't yet played live. Here's the list that I could come up with, but if I included a song they DID play live, let me know:

Evening Star
Winchester Diver

Seen Better Days
Edgelands
Upton Heath
A Boy In Darkness
Worked Out
Winchester From St Giles Hill
The Lovers
Leopards
Keeper Of Abbeys

Along The Ridgeway
Salisbury Giant
Mudlarks
Lost Rivers Of London
Brooklands

On The Racing Line
Grimspound
The Ivy Gate
As The Crow Flies

The Second Brightest Star
Haymaking
Skylon
London Stone
The Passing Widow
The Leaden Stour
Terra Australis Incognita
The Gentleman's Reprise

Roman Stone
Pantheon
Ariel

Of these, I would love to see them break out "On The Racing Line"/"Brooklands", as well as "Ariel". I'm not sure how interesting it would be live, but a full performance of "London Song" (yes, all 33 minutes of it) could be fun to see them pull off!

I do wonder if they'll ever go back to some of those unplayed English Electric tunes given how different the band is now (with half of the band remaining from that line-up). "Seen Better Days", "A Boy In Darkness", "Winchester From St Giles' Hill", and "Keeper Of Abbeys" would all be fantastic live, and I'm sure the current live line-up could pull them off.

-Marc.

[DTA]

I'm surprised to see that Keeper of Abbeys was never played live. Seems built for live performance, though it kinda has the same energy as Judas Unrepentant so maybe they opted to do that one instead. I'd love to see the entire Brooklands Sequence make its debut, but I think the 'On The Racing Line' section was composed by Danny Manners so that might be "off-limits" to them now that he's no longer in the band. Also, Evening Star seem like a huge omission.

I've never seen them so I'll take whatever set they can manage to bring over to the US. It's all so good an they haven't played enough to burn any songs out.

[The Letter M]

I'm surprised to see that Keeper of Abbeys was never played live. Seems built for live performance, though it kinda has the same energy as Judas Unrepentant so maybe they opted to do that one instead. I'd love to see the entire Brooklands Sequence make its debut, but I think the 'On The Racing Line' section was composed by Danny Manners so that might be "off-limits" to them now that he's no longer in the band. Also, Evening Star seem like a huge omission.

I've never seen them so I'll take whatever set they can manage to bring over to the US. It's all so good an they haven't played enough to burn any songs out.

Looking at discogs, "On The Racing Line" was co-written by Danny Manners and Greg Spawton, so maybe they could still play it. I'm not aware of any bad blood between Danny and the band that would cause them to not play any songs that Danny had composed, or help compose.

Earlier today, I participated in the BBT Common Ground "live" listening party on their Facebook group, and it was interesting seeing comments from David, Greg, and Nick regarding the album's songs, as well as comments from Dave Foester (new guitarist) and Dave Desmond (Trombonist) (lots of Daves in the thread!).I even got replies from David and Greg about some questions and comments I had regarding the music!

And not an hour ago, I received my Belle Antique (Japanese release) version of Common Ground, and it only left Tokyo less than 34 hours earlier (DHL Shipping is SUPER fast!). Like with Grand Tour, this album has a unique bonus track written by Rikard, placed at tbe end of the album. It's another piano piece titled "Downstream" and is another lovely coda to an album that has quickly grown on me as I've started really digesting the musical and lyrical content of the album!

-Marc.

[HOF]

Totally forgot they were doing the listening party today (or more accurately didn't realize it was in the middle of the afternoon). Just checked on the thread and there are over 1,000 comments! Yikes! Probably not gonna wade through all that, but glad it was fun!

[nick_z]

So, the only Big Big Train album I have is The Underfall Yard, which I liked (and should revisit). I have listened to Common Ground and while I overall enjoyed it, I wasn't blown away. I've gone through the thread a bit, and I noted they've been quite the prolific band over the last few years.

I'm planning to explore the discography some more - any recommendations from the good people at DTF on where to go next? Chronological order? Albums I should DEFINITELY check out?

[goo-goo]

So, the only Big Big Train album I have is The Underfall Yard, which I liked (and should revisit). I have listened to Common Ground and while I overall enjoyed it, I wasn't blown away. I've gone through the thread a bit, and I noted they've been quite the prolific band over the last few years.

I'm planning to explore the discography some more - any recommendations from the good people at DTF on where to go next? Chronological order? Albums I should DEFINITELY check out?

You should check out Folklore, Grand Tour, and English Electric Full Power. Full Power is too long so you might check out Folkore and GT first. Grimspound is also very good. I tend to go with the newer stuff first. I do agree with you, Common Ground is a bit underwhelming. But those other albums will make it up.

[nick_z]

So, the only Big Big Train album I have is The Underfall Yard, which I liked (and should revisit). I have listened to Common Ground and while I overall enjoyed it, I wasn't blown away. I've gone through the thread a bit, and I noted they've been quite the prolific band over the last few years.

I'm planning to explore the discography some more - any recommendations from the good people at DTF on where to go next? Chronological order? Albums I should DEFINITELY check out?

You should check out Folklore, Grand Tour, and English Electric Full Power. Full Power is too long so you might check out Folkore and GT first. Grimspound is also very good. I tend to go with the newer stuff first. I do agree with you, Common Ground is a bit underwhelming. But those other albums will make it up.

Thank you, I'll start digging    What's the deal with English Electric Full Power? Is it just the combination of Part One and Two?

[The Letter M]

So, the only Big Big Train album I have is The Underfall Yard, which I liked (and should revisit). I have listened to Common Ground and while I overall enjoyed it, I wasn't blown away. I've gone through the thread a bit, and I noted they've been quite the prolific band over the last few years.

I'm planning to explore the discography some more - any recommendations from the good people at DTF on where to go next? Chronological order? Albums I should DEFINITELY check out?

You should check out Folklore, Grand Tour, and English Electric Full Power. Full Power is too long so you might check out Folkore and GT first. Grimspound is also very good. I tend to go with the newer stuff first. I do agree with you, Common Ground is a bit underwhelming. But those other albums will make it up.

Thank you, I'll start digging    What's the deal with English Electric Full Power? Is it just the combination of Part One and Two?

EEFP was released as a combination of EE Parts 1 and 2, as well as four new tracks released afterwards and part of the Make Some Noise EP. Full Power is the complete encapsulation of all the material from that 2012/2013 era, and it's definitely a good place to start after The Underfall Yard.

I would also suggest checking out their Far Skies Deep Time "EP" (originally released as a 5 track EP at about 40 minutes, but a 2017 reissue includes a 6th track making it a 50 minute album). That release was made by the same lineup as The Underfall Yard, and features some material that didn't make that album, their previous album (The Difference Machine), a remake of an older song from from early 90s, and a cover of an Anthony Philips demo.

After EEFP, I would suggest just going chronologically, next to Folklore, then Grimspound, and The Second Brightest Star. Those 3 albums form another chunk of the band's material that I often lump together.

And then Grand Tour sort of moves oh from the kind of pastoral, folk-y music that defined their previous 5 albums, but retains a lot of of BBT hallmarks that make them a unique, standout band in the modern prog world!

-Marc.

[nick_z]

Thank you, I'll start digging    What's the deal with English Electric Full Power? Is it just the combination of Part One and Two?

EEFP was released as a combination of EE Parts 1 and 2, as well as four new tracks released afterwards and part of the Make Some Noise EP. Full Power is the complete encapsulation of all the material from that 2012/2013 era, and it's definitely a good place to start after The Underfall Yard.

I would also suggest checking out their Far Skies Deep Time "EP" (originally released as a 5 track EP at about 40 minutes, but a 2017 reissue includes a 6th track making it a 50 minute album). That release was made by the same lineup as The Underfall Yard, and features some material that didn't make that album, their previous album (The Difference Machine), a remake of an older song from from early 90s, and a cover of an Anthony Philips demo.

After EEFP, I would suggest just going chronologically, next to Folklore, then Grimspound, and The Second Brightest Star. Those 3 albums form another chunk of the band's material that I often lump together.

And then Grand Tour sort of moves oh from the kind of pastoral, folk-y music that defined their previous 5 albums, but retains a lot of of BBT hallmarks that make them a unique, standout band in the modern prog world!

-Marc.

Thank you, this is plenty of great info  Judging from the pic you posted earlier in the thread, I take it you are a pretty big fan of the band!

[HOF]

So, the only Big Big Train album I have is The Underfall Yard, which I liked (and should revisit). I have listened to Common Ground and while I overall enjoyed it, I wasn't blown away. I've gone through the thread a bit, and I noted they've been quite the prolific band over the last few years.

I'm planning to explore the discography some more - any recommendations from the good people at DTF on where to go next? Chronological order? Albums I should DEFINITELY check out?

If you like The Underfall Yard you should like Far Skies Deep Time and English Electric. In fact, I’d highly recommend you get both (you can only buy English Electric as the double disc Full Power version, but it’s definitely not too long. Listened to it today and it flew by. You can stream the individual albums as well though). You might also like The Difference Machine, which preceded The Underfall Yard and has a different singer but has a similar darker vibe as The Underfall Yard.

In my opinion, BBT haven’t released a bad album yet though. Give Common Ground a little time. I had to give it several spins to really start to get it, but I am really enjoying it now. It might help you to have a little more context though for what the band do before you really get it.

[HOF]

Speaking of recycled phrases, it occurs to me that Endnotes ends on the line “down the river to the sea,” which is awfully close to the name of the band’s demo album From the River to the Sea. I wonder if that was a conscience reference or not. Would have been a fitting line if this were the band’s last album, but thankfully (hopefully!) that doesn’t appear to be the case!

[The Letter M]

Speaking of recycled phrases, it occurs to me that Endnotes ends on the line “down the river to the sea,” which is awfully close to the name of the band’s demo album From the River to the Sea. I wonder if that was a conscience reference or not. Would have been a fitting line if this were the band’s last album, but thankfully (hopefully!) that doesn’t appear to be the case!

During the listening party earlier today, I asked Greg about that and he responded with "It's all connected!" Must be part of the greater BBT Universe!

Thank you, this is plenty of great info  Judging from the pic you posted earlier in the thread, I take it you are a pretty big fan of the band!

Happy to help! And yes, BBT have quickly become one of my favorite bands of all time in the near 9 years I've known about them. I even started this thread! I've been pre-ordering every album, single, EP, and BD since 2013's English Electric Part 2, so yeah, I'd probably say I'm a pretty big fan of the band. 😅

-Marc.

[soupytwist]

Does the physical copy show the writing credits?  I'm currently playing though Amazon music - and Wiki hasn't got a separate page for this album yet.  I always like to know the split between the Greg and Dave songs and seeing where Nick contributes.

[Zydar]

Does the physical copy show the writing credits?  I'm currently playing though Amazon music - and Wiki hasn't got a separate page for this album yet.  I always like to know the split between the Greg and Dave songs and seeing where Nick contributes.

Check here:

https://www.discogs.com/Big-Big-Train-Common-Ground/release/19581799

It has writing credits (and instrument/vocals credits) for each of the songs.

[soupytwist]

Does the physical copy show the writing credits?  I'm currently playing though Amazon music - and Wiki hasn't got a separate page for this album yet.  I always like to know the split between the Greg and Dave songs and seeing where Nick contributes.

Check here:

https://www.discogs.com/Big-Big-Train-Common-Ground/release/19581799

It has writing credits (and instrument/vocals credits) for each of the songs.

Thanks.  Some surprises there.  I generally prefer Dave's songs - but on this albums not so much.

[soupytwist]

I've listen to the new album now a few more times and while I do think it's overall more enjoyable than 'Grand Tour' I still find the songs are often lacking (for want of a better word) personality compared to stuff between Underfall Yard and the Folklore album trilogy.