Genesis Discography

[ThatcrazyKISSfan]

Multiple choice time!

I Can't Dance is:

a) a bad dream.
b) the worst "hit" by a great band ever.
c) an embarrassment to the Genesis name.
d) a song that should be used to torture captured terrorists. 
e) all of the above.

The answer is, of course, "e."

I knew this song long before I knew of old Genesis.  I remember being in Kindergarten...first grade...and hearing this song on the bus on the way to school.  I still love it today.  Perhaps if one grew up with In the Cage, and was then exposed to this, I can see the hatred.  But it's easily one of my favorite Genesis tunes post-Hackett departure.  How can you not love that riff?  Or the video, with that fucked up dance?  Oh well, I'm sure on this forum there are many who feel the way you do.

[KevShmev]

Actually, I was mostly only familiar with Genesis' 80s hits until the later 90s, so I was unfamiliar with all of their prog stuff when I first heard I Can't Dance (except for having heard The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway, the song, several times). 

[Orbert]

As with many, I originally had some problems with this album - it was quite a bit different than anything they had done before it, and to be honest, anything they'd do after it! It took me a longer time to warm-up to this album than it did the 3 after it, but in recent years, after I got the 2007 box sets, I revisited the album with fresh ears, and found some cool things to enjoy. I still cringe a bit during "Whodunnit?" but otherwise, I have found myself quite enjoying the other 8 tracks on the album!

For me, the top tracks would be "Me And Sarah Jane", "Dodo/Lurker" and "Abacab", with tracks "Man On The Corner", "No Reply At All" and "Keep It Dark" being middle-of-the-road. The rest are okay, with the aforementioned "Whodunnit?" at the bottom.

Side 1 is pretty great, and Side 2 was a bit more experimental. I do wish they had kept the Suite on there, though, and when I learned of it, I made a mix of the four tracks blending together (both when I got the 97 reissues and again in 2007 after I got the boxset remasters). It's a pretty interesting suite and I really like how "Submarine" blends in to the ending of "Lurker".

Indeed, they did have over 70 minutes of music over 14 tracks, and I would've enjoyed them all (to some extent), but I'm glad they made another single album, however, that hadn't stopped me from making my own double-album version with all 14 tracks on it!

Side 1 - 17:05
Abacab
No Reply At All
You Might Recall

Side 2 - 16:53
Me And Sarah Jane
Keep It Dark
Me And Virgil

Side 3 - 19:06
Naminanu
Dodo
Lurker
Submarine
Who Dunnit?

Side 4 - 17:28
Man On The Corner
Paperlate
Like It Or Not
Another Record

-Marc.

So I finished hunting down all the outtakes from Abacab, and loaded them onto my iPod so I could enjoy my newly augmented version of the album.  The problem is that all the new ones came from the box sets and archives, so they've been remastered and sound louder and brighter than the original Abacab tracks which I ripped in 2008 at 128k.  Back then, I was more concerned with hard drive space and how much my growing mp3 collection would take, and since Abacab was something of a "lesser" Genesis album, I figured 128k was fine.

Nowadays, I shoot for at least 192-320 variable, and storage space is no longer an issue.  I happened to stop at the library the other day to pick up some Brubeck, and thought I'd check the Genesis section just to see what they have.  The one remaster from the 2007 box sets sitting in the regular section was Abacab.  So I ripped it, and now they all sound great.

Typically, I just slip the outtakes between the original Side One and Side Two, and put them in some kind of order that sounds good.  Here, however, we know that "Naminanu" and "Submarine" have specific places.  Also, I wanted "Paperlate" to start off the new Side Two.  Somehow it seemed appropriate, since it's the other song with horns.  Yeah, I know; albums on CDs and iPods don't have "sides" to them.  But albums I originally had on LP will always be mentally divided into sides for me, even if the sides are twice as long now.

Abacab
No Reply At All
Me And Sarah Jane
Keep It Dark
You Might Recall
Me And Virgil
Paperlate
Naminanu
Dodo / Lurker
Submarine
Who Dunnit?
Man On The Corner
Like It Or Not
Another Record

110 minutes.  Definitely would've been a double LP, even without the original, longer version of the title track.

Also, I watched the DVD interview segment which talked about Abacab, the album.  They talked about The Farm, the property they'd bought out in Surrey which they'd always wanted to do, to have a place to write and record.  They talked about the word "abacab" and how it came about.  Yeah, yeah, we knew all that.

"Who Dunnit?" was Tony's idea.    It started with him playing around on his Prophet 5, making all kinds of weird sounds.  It kinda worked into a riff at some point, and Phil added some stupid words.  Eventually it became a song.  Since they'd decided at this point that Abacab was going to be their break from tradition, their "punk" album (or as punk as Genesis gets anyway), when it came down to including "Who Dunnit?" or "You Might Recall", they went with "Who Dunnit?"

I have to say, if they'd gone with "You Might Recall", my initial and overall opinions of the album would've been much, much higher.  But oh well.

[Orbert]

Hmm, still can't delete posts.  What ze heck?

[Pelata]

I just, in 2012, picked up WCD for $1. I always liked NSOM and ITD. I never really liked the title track or JHKM. But I noticed some longer songs on it and figured, for $1, it was well worth it. I was pleased. Aside from the 2 tracks I don't care for (and even those are humorous when I'm in the right mood), it's a better than solid album and a reminder that PC, MR and TB still had "it" in them.

[Orbert]

Volume One: The Shorts (1992)



Land of Confusion
No Son of Mine
Jesus He Knows Me
Throwing It All Away
I Can't Dance
Mama
Hold on My Heart
That's All
In Too Deep
Tonight, Tonight, Tonight
Invisible Touch


Volume Two: The Longs (1993)



Old Medley
  Dance on a Volcano
  The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway
  The Musical Box
  Firth of Fifth
  I Know What I Like (In Your Wardrobe)
Driving the Last Spike
Domino
  Part 1 - In the Glow of the Night
  Part 2 - The Last Domino
Fading Lights
Home by the Sea / Second Home by the Sea
Drum Duet

----------

Tony Banks: Keyboards, Background Vocals
Phil Collins: Lead Vocals, Drums, Percussion
Mike Rutherford: Guitar, Bass, Background Vocals

with

Daryl Steurmer: Bass, Guitar, Background Vocals
Chester Thompson: Drums

----------

There had only been three studio albums since their last live album, but that was over 10 years ago.  Genesis had continued to change and evolve during that time, plus there was the possibility that We Can't Dance would be the last Genesis album and tour, so it made sense to document it.

The Way We Walk was a double album, released one disc at a time.  Volume One: The Shorts was released late in 1992, and Volume Two: The Longs followed early in 1993.  As their titles imply, Volume One is the radio-friendly hits, while Volume Two focuses on the longer pieces.  Genesis was well aware of the divided nature of their audience.  Longtime fans who still followed the band tended to prefer the longer, more adventurous songs, but there was a much larger segment of the fanbase who had discovered Genesis later and were more interested in the hits.

Although I completely understand it, I can't say that I like having things divided up this way, and it just seems like pandering of the highest order.  "First we'll release all the hits and make a lot of money, then later we'll release the other stuff, you know, just for completeness."  What I did was hunt down a setlist from the We Can't Dance tour, combined the two volumes, and rearranged the tracks to more closely represent a concert.

Land of Confusion
No Son of Mine
Driving the Last Spike
Old Medley
Fading Lights
Jesus He Knows Me
Home by the Sea / Second Home by the Sea
Throwing It All Away
Hold On My Heart
Domino
Drum Duet
I Can't Dance
Tonight, Tonight, Tonight / Invisible Touch
Mama
That's All
In Too Deep

The concert usually ended with "I Can't Dance".  The encore was a shortened version of "Tonight, Tonight, Tonight" cutting into "Invisible Touch" rather than going into the break.  I can only imagine attending one of these concerts and having them come out for the encore and start "Tonight, Tonight, Tonight" only to have them smash cut to yet another pop hit.  Talk about a tease.  The last three songs -- "Mama", "That's All", and "In Too Deep" -- weren't played on the We Can't Dance tour, so they came from previous tours.  They were hits from this period and pretty much had to be included, instead of "Dreaming While You Sleep" which was actually played on this tour.  But this live album represents the final period of Genesis, not just the We Can't Dance tour.

You may find some sources online (Wikipedia, for example) that give a more extensive list of songs included in the "Old Medley".  This is because Genesis has slipped instrumental quotes from other songs into "I Know What I Like (In Your Wardrobe)" since at least as far back as Seconds Out.  "Stagnation", "Dancing with the Moonlit Knight" and others commonly make appearances.  Here, Phil ups the ante by singing lines from "That's All", "Illegal Alien", "Your Own Special Way", and "Follow You Follow Me" before the return to "I Know What I Like (In Your Wardrobe)", so sometimes you'll see those titles included as well, even though we usually only get a line or two.


Each Genesis live album has its own character.  With Genesis Live, it was amazing to hear how well such intricate arrangements could be executed live.  Seconds Out caught Genesis during their transitional period, and we got to hear Phil's takes on Gabriel-era classics, plus a taste of the newer sound.  With Three Sides Live, the still-proggish leanings of the three-piece band became focused into tight, hard-rocking jams, and Genesis showed the world that a band could have both radio hits and actual musical talent.

Here, I'm honestly not sure how much the live versions have to offer over their studio counterparts.  Since the songs themselves are generally more stripped down, there's not a lot of challenge to the performance or the arrangements.  Tony's keyboard parts, even during the instrumentals, are composed rather than improvised, and he even uses the same patches.  Chester does a great job of copying Phil's style and sound, perhaps too good; he basically sounds like Phil.  Mike seems to be the only one taking chances, musically.  His guitar lines tend to be improvised most of the time; he's the one who talks about going for "feel" rather than "notes" with the music of this period.  With Mike playing guitar most of the time, Daryl mostly plays bass.  And while he's great at it, there's just not much room for him to play, and the songs themselves tend to sound better with simpler bass lines anyway.  He only really gets one moment to stretch out, and that's when he plays Steve Hackett's solo from "Firth of Fifth".  I know it's a matter of taste, but he's really milking it, his one chance to shine, and it just doesn't work.  That solo is all about the sound, the angst, not about shredding.

Then there's Phil.  By this point, Phil had been spending more time on his own solo tours than fronting Genesis, and I think he forgot that there's a difference between the two.  Or he just decided that since he's 1/3 of Genesis, his personality should not be hidden just because he's not the "star" of the show.  So he sings and babbles incessantly during intros and outros, adds extra words to verses, and generally has me shouting, out loud, at least a few times, "Phil, will you please just shut up?!"

Obviously that's not fair.  My own prejudice is that Genesis music is awesome, elegant, powerful, subtle, and speaks for itself.  It's not about showing off or carrying on; it's about just making great music.  Tony is amazing, but always completely reserved.  Mike cuts loose a bit, but there aren't that many times where the guitar gets the spotlight anymore.  Phil, as the front man, seems to feel the need to fill a void which simply isn't there.  He doesn't have to keep singing after the verses have ended and the band plays for a while, but he does.  He doesn't have to make up chants during the intros when the music is building up, but he does.  And it practically ruins the album for me.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot:

Live - First live album, one word, one LP.
Seconds Out - Second live album, two words, two LPs, contains the word "second".
Three Sides Live - Third live album, three words, three LP sides of live music, contains the word "three".
The Way We Walk - Fourth live album, four words, four LP sides.

[Jaq]

These two albums are the oddity in my Genesis collection. Other than From Genesis To Revelation, I don't actually own them. In fact, of the two, I've only heard The Longs, and then only once at a friend's. I've never had the urge to buy them, and I think it all stems from the gimmicky nature of how they were released. I think had it been issued as a double CD, properly reflecting the touring the band did in that time frame, I likely would have bought it. Likely, not definitely, though. We Can't Dance was such a brilliant summation of everything that the band had done as a three piece, and Fading Lights just felt so much like "goodbye" that these two live albums felt redundant to me, almost surplus to requirements. To me, Genesis was done, and this just felt...unnecessary. By 1993, live albums simply didn't have the cachet they used to have for me, and I'd stopped buying them.  In fact, in the 90s, at the time of their release, the only live albums I actually bought were Y&T's Yesterday And Today Live, Dream Theater's Live At The Marquee and Once In A Livetime, Marillion's Made Again...and curiously Alive III by Kiss. Go figure. I haven't exactly, since then, gone back and bought a lot of 90s era live albums period, although I did resume buying live albums eventually, as we'll see a bit further on in the thread; maybe three or four 90s live albums I've bought since then.

So maybe it was more me than Genesis, but really, these live albums just felt unnecessary to me.

[Orbert]

That pretty much sums up how I felt about these two as well.  They, plus Calling All Stations, are the only Genesis albums I don't own in at least one format.  I downloaded these, and ripped Calling All Stations from the library, so I could give them proper listens and write them up here, but I'll be deleting them.  "Unnecessary" is kinda harsh, but yeah, that's how I feel.

Mike has some nice guitar work.  The weird thing is, the live versions sound so similar to the studio versions that I expect to hear the same thing.  Tony plays the exact same thing, the drums sound the same, I expect to hear the same guitar lines as well, and Mike does something else.  I can't see buying a double live album just to hear a few cool guitar licks, though.

[The Letter M]

Of their four live albums, this is the one I listen to the least, although it has at couple saving graces, one of which is the GREAT live version of "Fading Lights". Even Mike's little solo near the end is a little longer and better than the studio version.

Since the 2007 re-issues have came out, I deleted my original Shorts/Longs version of the album off my iPod and have kept the integrated show on there, but even since then (09? when I got it), I haven't listened to it more than once (with a couple song exceptions). Like you said, Orbert, they're not all that different from the studio versions, and they aren't really that adventurous with their live performances here - it's by-the-numbers on many tunes, aside from Phil's additional ranting/scatting, which, I agree, does get annoying after awhile.

-Marc.

[jcmoorehead]

I don't have the albums but what I do have is the DVD of the tour with all the tracks ripped to my iPod. I too have to question breaking it up, yes I also can see why but I think that people wouldn't have been too bugged by the longer tracks being a part of it and probably would have skipped past them anyway. Add to which I can't think of many casual fans of a band who tend to buy live albums anyway, every so often one will sell a lot and make waves but I don't really hear of people rushing out to get a live album. DVDs yes, albums not so much.

I do however like the DVD, the Old Medley was my introduction to older Genesis, it was from there I would hear a few licks, solos and the like which made me seek out the older material so got to give it credit for that. I disagree with you about Phil's adlibs, they honestly don't bug me at all but then again I knew Genesis from We Can't Dance and this tour backwards, so I would imagine if I had perhaps discovered them in a different order I'd feel differently about it.

[Orbert]

Genesis: Calling All Stations (1997)



Calling All Stations
Congo
Shipwrecked
Alien Afternoon
Not About Us
If That's What You Need
The Dividing Line
Uncertain Weather
Small Talk
There Must Be Some Other Way
One Man's Fool

----------

Tony Banks: Keyboards, Background Vocals
Mike Rutherford: Guitar, Bass, Background Vocals
Ray Wilson: Vocals

with

Nick D'Virgilio: Drums
Nir Zidkyahu: Drums

----------

As mentioned earlier, Genesis had officially become a side project, an entity that existed when its members chose to get together and create music and/or tour, but which was on hiatus otherwise.  In 1995, Phil Collins announced that he had officially left Genesis, leaving only Tony and Mike.  Tony and Mike chose to continue with Genesis, and began auditioning new singers.

They ended up choosing Ray Wilson, who had most recently been fronting the Scottish grunge band Stiltskin.  Stiltskin had been around since 1989, and Ray had joined them in 1993, but when he left them in 1996 to join Genesis, Stiltskin broke up.  Ray's voice has a darker tone than Phil's; it is much more reminiscent of Peter Gabriel's, which many believe is why Tony and Mike chose him.

The album yielded three singles, "Congo", "Shipwrecked", and "Not About Us", and while all three made the charts, only "Congo" could really be considered a hit.  Overall, the album was not well received by either fans or critics.  Ticket sales in the U.S. were so poor that the U.S. tour was cancelled.  They carried on with the European leg, which fared slightly better, but upon its completion, Tony and Mike put Genesis on an extended hiatus.  Calling All Stations would appear to be the final Genesis studio album.

----------

Shortly after it was released, this album stayed in the CD player of my car for a week.  I wanted to like it, perhaps I wanted too much to like it.  I wanted to believe that with Phil Collins out of the band, Mike and Tony could return to making great prog music.  Even though Phil, Tony, and Mike all insisted that the change in direction that Genesis had taken in the 80's and 90's was a mutual decision, and that the goal of the band had always been to make hit records, I didn't believe it, or I didn't want to believe it.

It starts strong.  Mike's electric guitar comes sliding in, the bass and drums come in with a bang, the synths build, and when Ray's voice comes in, the first thing you think is that it sounds like Peter Gabriel, only older, and deeper.  Except that we know what Peter's voice sounds like, and it's not that deep, and we know that this isn't Peter anyway.

That's okay, the title track is interesting.  It seems to have a darker edge to it, something that the cover art implied.  It doesn't hurry; it has a relaxed, exploratory feel to it.  It's definitely not pop, though I wouldn't call it prog.  Is there such a thing as "regular rock" anymore?  And then inexplicably, the song fades out.  I say that because it's at a point in the song that doesn't feel like a normal fadeout point.  It hasn't returned to a chorus and begun to repeat; it hasn't done anything to imply that the musical statement is complete.  In fact, Ray is singing what seems to be another verse, and they just start fading him out.

In all, 10 of the 11 tracks on this album fade out, with at least half of them fading because it just seems like they didn't know what else to do.  Overall, the album has an "unfinished" feel to it.  What I recall from interviews with Tony and Mike seems to support this.  Tony and Mike wrote the songs with a drum machine, since it was just the two of them and they didn't have a drummer.  They got a singer, and hired some drummers, and -- I don't know -- maybe the studio time was already booked or something, but to hear them tell it, they got to recording the songs and realized that they hadn't written any endings to them.

In general, I don't like fadeouts anyway; it always seems to me like a way to end the song when you couldn't think of a proper ending.  At the very least, you should fall into some kind of repeating pattern and fade out on that.  Here, the songs really were unfinished.  And they sound like it.  There are a few good ideas; many of the songs start off well, but then don't seem to go anywhere.  And then they fade out, sometimes in what seems like the middle of a verse or while heading into another section.

I never did buy this one.  That week I had it, I'd borrowed it from the library.  I borrowed it again a few years later and gave it another week, just to see.  My impression was about the same.  By then, I'd read more about the album and how it came about, and it all made sense.  After nearly five years, they'd rushed this album, released it half-baked, and it shows.

I borrowed it again this past week and have been listening to it again for this writeup, and something unexpected happened:  Some of the songs started to click.  Many still sound half-baked, but some of the songs could have been really good, given just a little more work, and proper endings.  Some of them are pretty good now.  I like "The Dividing Line" (the one song that actually ends).  The drumming (courtesy of Nir Z) is extraordinary.  Actually, all of the playing on this album, the drumming, the guitars, and the keyboards, is great.  Mike plays a lot of guitar on this album, and some of it has some real bite to it.  Tony's keyboard sounds are dark and cool.  And the vocals are really quite good.

So I ended up liking this album more than I did before.  Before, there were literally no songs I would say I liked.  Now there are a few.  And while the sudden fade-outs are still disappointing and mar what are otherwise decent songs (sometimes), at least I know they're coming and can deal with them a bit better.  But overall, this album just wasn't ready to be recorded, by the band's own admission.

The tour was a disaster.  Ray's voice is lower than either Phil's or Peter's, so they had to lower the key for most songs.  And let's face it, with the huge Genesis back catalogue, fans were going to want to hear their favorites.  But Ray also had a very different style.  He was not the electric, eccentric front man that Phil had become, and he wasn't the thespian storyteller that Peter was.

Basically, this was a different band.  To be blunt, if Tony and Mike had wanted to continue, they could have, but they should not have called this band Genesis.  Not just because this album sounds nothing like anything that came before it.  The biggest thing is that if you call the band Genesis, and the band Genesis has a couple dozen well-known hits and several other well-known, well-loved songs, people will want to hear them in concert, and you have to be able to play (and sing) them.  This band could not do that, and all they were doing was setting themselves up for failure.  The songs didn't sound the same, and that wasn't Phil Collins up there.  This was not Genesis.

Even though longtime touring drummer Chester Thompson had asked to be the new permanent drummer for Genesis, they instead hired Nick D'Virgilio and Nir Zidkyahu to play drums on this album.  And even though Nir Z appears in two of videos -- along with Tony, Mike, and Ray -- he was not officially a member of the band; neither drummer was.

Overall, this is a strange album, and rather a poor note for Genesis to end on.  Particularly disappointing is that it has a lot of potential.  The playing is great, and the production is excellent.  Some of the songs are pretty good, but every song could have been better, and some really good, with just a little more work.

[Jaq]

This album is one of the better cases of misjudgment in the history of music. I bought this album actually in a blind, futile hope; I had heard Phil had left the band, and seeing a new Genesis album out, so unexpectedly, made me hope against hope that Phil had returned and I had missed the press release. Because there was no way Tony and Mike would continue without him, right?

So much for that idea.

First off, let me say this: the title track, despite the odd fade out, is really, really damn good. I'd say that it'd make a hypothetical Genesis top 50 if I was to make one. It's a great song, a great, straight up rock song that builds to a particularly magnificent climax...then kind of peters out. I like Shipwrecked a lot, and Alien Afternoon feels like it fell right out of the cracks somewhere between Abacab and the self-titled. Other than that, though, the rest of the album is particularly half baked. It doesn't really know what it wants to be, and it honestly feels like Tony and Mike said "you know what, we don't need Phil!", only to find out, to their utter chagrin, that they really, really did. I will give the drumming credit-it sounds like Phil in his prime on steroids-but finding out now that the band went into the studio with the songs unfinished really explains a lot of it to me.

I have heard, and I'm not sure if it's actually true, that one of the singers considered for the job was Fish from Marillion. Which may have been a bit too on the nose for some people, but it makes a lot more sense than Ray Wilson turned out to be. Genesis really should have ended with We Can't Dance, and really, to me, they did.

[Orbert]

Fish sang on one of Tony's solo albums, and was great.  He would've been cool as the new Genesis singer.

In 1995, Tony got together with Jack Hues (singer/guitarist from Wang Chung) to release Strictly, Inc., which stylistically fits right between the last two Genesis albums.  Jack would've been another good choice for the next Genesis singer.  Strictly, Inc. is something like Bankstatement from 1989; both are albums which seem to be self-titled albums from bands (only a single title appears on the cover), but they're really Tony Banks solo projects.  He wrote all the songs, put the bands together, and obviously plays all the keys.  Anyway, Strictly, Inc. is a pretty good album, and I just thought I'd mention it and Jack Hues.

Genesis really should have ended with We Can't Dance, and really, to me, they did.

Yeah, me too.

[Nel]

I can agree with you two that I really like the title track, even though it fades out before it really builds up to anything. The rest of the album just fails to deliver though. It's like the album can't even make it to the end of the first song without giving up.  Whole thing's a throwaway. To me, at least.

And since I've only heard the studio albums, I suppose this is where my participation ends, so I'd just like to thank Orbert for doing another one of these topics. They're really fun and interesting, and best of all, give me an excuse to revisit these albums, regardless of quality.

Barring the debut, the way I own these albums are through the 2007/2008 box sets, which are fantastic packages, btw. Always hoped to get the live box set, but alas. Mostly just for collector's sake, as I'm more of a studio album kind of guy.

[Jaq]

In 1995, Tony got together with Jack Hues (singer/guitarist from Wang Chung) to release Strictly, Inc., which stylistically fits right between the last two Genesis albums.  Jack would've been another good choice for the next Genesis singer.  Strictly, Inc. is something like Bankstatement from 1989; both are albums which seem to be self-titled albums from bands (only a single title appears on the cover), but they're really Tony Banks solo projects.  He wrote all the songs, put the bands together, and obviously plays all the keys.  Anyway, Strictly, Inc. is a pretty good album, and I just thought I'd mention it and Jack Hues.

I need to look into that Strictly, Inc. album. That sounds like an interesting combo, albeit one I never actually THOUGHT of. 

[Phoenix87x]

I could never get into Calling all stations and this is coming from a fan of Van Halen with Gary Cherone. And the album art really leaves a lot to be desired.

[Pelata]

and this is coming from a fan of Van Halen with Gary Cherone.

I knew there had to be another one...high-five. 

[Orbert]

In 1995, Tony got together with Jack Hues (singer/guitarist from Wang Chung) to release Strictly, Inc., which stylistically fits right between the last two Genesis albums.  Jack would've been another good choice for the next Genesis singer.  Strictly, Inc. is something like Bankstatement from 1989; both are albums which seem to be self-titled albums from bands (only a single title appears on the cover), but they're really Tony Banks solo projects.  He wrote all the songs, put the bands together, and obviously plays all the keys.  Anyway, Strictly, Inc. is a pretty good album, and I just thought I'd mention it and Jack Hues.

I need to look into that Strictly, Inc. album. That sounds like an interesting combo, albeit one I never actually THOUGHT of. 

It's pretty good; I like it.  Even though it is presented as a band, a collaboration by Tony and Jack, like I said, it's Tony's project, so unfortunately there's not a lot of Wang Chung feel to it.  I liked Wang Chung.  They did some weird, edgier stuff like the "To Live and Die in L.A." soundtrack, and even the song "Everybody Have Fun Tonight" is actually a more complex tune than people realize.  Plus Jack's pipes, holy shit that guy can sing.

Strictly, Inc. closes with a 17-minute song called "An Island in the Darkness".  Before you get too excited, this is not a prog epic in the old-school sense.  But after most of the album restricting itself to "regular" songs, this one takes its time and really stretches out.  It has a lot of orchestration in the form of Tony's banks of keyboards, and of course it goes through an extended instrumental section featuring lot of changes and those great chord sequences that we've come to expect from Tony.

[Lolzeez]

Crappy album. Shipwrecked is a gem though. And I also really like the title track. Other than that,meh. Would have loved to see Fish sing for Genesis.

[snowdog]

As cool as it would have been to see Fish in Genesis, I'm sure there would have been some huge personality issues.  Fish certainly seems to piss people off.  Outside of Frank Usher I don't think there is anyone in his solo band that has been with him for a long time.

Another thing that could have been interesting is that Kevin Gilbert was likely to have auditioned with the band.  However he passed away right before that happened.  That could have been interesting.

[The Letter M]

I have an odd affection for this album. Some of my favorite tracks include the title track, "Shipwrecked", "Not About Us", "Alien Afternoon", "The Dividing Line", "There Must Be Some Other Way", and "One Man's Fool", which is a great closing track! I love the way it builds and builds to the end, despite the fade-out.

And speaking of fade-outs, I've grown to ignore them a bit on this album, considering that they were becoming more and more commonplace in Genesis songs since Abacab. The rest of the album is OK, not GREAT, but I find songs like "Small Talk" and "Congo" slightly more listenable than half the tracks on IT and WCD. And I enjoy Ray Wilson's voice on this album, despite never having listened to any of his other material.

I noticed no one has mentioned the EIGHT B-sides that did not make it on this album:
Anything Now (my favorite of the bunch)
Sign Your Life Away
Run Out Of Time
Banjo Man (tied for my least favorite)
Papa He Said (also tied for my least favorite)
Phret and 7/8 (both instrumentals)
Nowhere Else To Turn

The last one is a rarer B-Side, not having been released on ANY single, but somehow made it's way to the internet! The first three were the only ones remastered for the '07 Box Sets, which is fine by me. The remaining five weren't so great, although "Phret" is a soothing instrumental.

And for the curious, here's my 2-Disc Remix playlist of this album including all the songs:

Disc 1
Calling All Stations
Congo
7/8
Shipwrecked
Anything Now
Alien Afternoon
Sign Your Life Away
Not About Us
Banjo Man
If That's What You Need

Disc 2
The Dividing Line
Nowhere Else To Turn
Uncertain Weather
Papa He Said
Small Talk
Run Out Of Time
There Must Be Some Other Way
Phret
One Man's Fool

It's the complete CAS set, for me, and it's not a bad bunch of songs all in all, but still not what one would expect from Tony and Mike, let alone Genesis.

-Marc.

[Orbert]

I knew there were a number of B-sides, and did some digging around and found out that there were a ton, but my writeup was getting pretty long and I figured they could come up later.  I was right. 

[ddtonfire]

In all, 10 of the 11 tracks on this album fade out, with at least half of them fading because it just seems like they didn't know what else to do. 

There must be some other way...

[Orbert]

Oh you!

[Orbert]

Genesis: Live over Europe 2007



Duke's Intro (excerpts from Behind the Lines and Duke's End)
Turn It on Again
No Son of Mine
Land of Confusion
In The Cage (including excerpts from The Cinema Show and Duke's Travels)
Afterglow
Hold on My Heart
Home by the Sea/Second Home by the Sea
Follow You Follow Me
Old Medley (excerpts from Firth of Fifth, I Know What I Like (In Your Wardrobe), and Stagnation)
Mama
Ripples
Throwing It All Away
Domino
Conversations With 2 Stools
Los Endos
Tonight, Tonight, Tonight (Excerpt)
Invisible Touch
I Can't Dance
The Carpet Crawlers
 
----------

Tony Banks: Keyboards, Background Vocals
Phil Collins: Lead Vocals, Drums, Percussion
Mike Rutherford: Guitar, Bass, Background Vocals

with

Daryl Steurmer: Bass, Guitar, Background Vocals
Chester Thompson: Drums

----------

15 years after We Can't Dance, the last album with Phil Collins, and 10 years after Calling All Stations, the final Genesis studio album, the band reunited for one final hurrah.  They had been trying to get Peter Gabriel to rejoin them for years, but despite professing a "never say never" attitude for many, many years, it really did seem that he wasn't interested.  Steve Hackett had also been asked to join them, which would have made it a full reunion of the classic five-piece lineup from the early 70's, but when Peter ultimately declined, the offer to Hackett was withdrawn.  Apparently a reunion of the three-piece lineup which had enjoyed huge commercial success had great potential, and the original five-piece lineup had great potential amongst aging progheads who'd been waiting 30 years for such an event, but the four-piece lineup really didn't have the drawing power of either.  So they went on a reunion tour with the three-piece band, augmented as always by Chester Thompson on drums and Daryl Steurmer on bass and guitar, and this is the document of that tour.

The sound is great.  The production is great.  The performances are excellent, and the band sounds like it hasn't been 15 minutes, let alone 15 years, since they last played together.  Except for one very important thing: The key of almost every song has been lowered, to accomodate Phil's aging voice.

The problem is that after 30 years, we know what these songs sound like.  We know exactly what the songs sound like, and even if you don't have perfect pitch, you can tell that they're not being sung in the original keys.  It doesn't bother some people at all; as long as everyone's in tune and there aren't any screw-ups, it all sounds fine.  Some people are bothered a bit, but it's not enough to ruin things.  Then there are people like me.  I don't have perfect pitch, but I do have "pretty good" pitch, and these songs just don't sound right.

In most cases, the lower key robs the songs of some of their beauty.  An F# has a certain ring to it that is unmistakeable.  That's why so many songs in D (where it's the major third) or B (where it's the fifth) sound so bright and happy.  It's that F# ringing.  Play the song down a step or two or three, and it's just not the same.  An F isn't the same.  An E is so common that it's boring.  An Eb is downright mellow.  There is a reason why songs sound better in certain keys.  Western music is not even-tempered.  It does make a difference what key you sing a song in.

Adding to that, many of the later songs have the drum machine and other sequenced percussion, and those are pitched sounds.  We know what the song sounds like relative to those pitches, and when Phil starts singing, it sounds like he's in the wrong key.

I'm not going to go into the specifics of the performances, because they're all excellent.  Look at the list of songs.  Every era is represented, though some more than others.  Some of those titles are really just excerpts, but it's a killer setlist no matter how you slice it.  The band is well-rehearsed; they're completely tight.  They literally sound just about perfect, excerpt for the key shifts, and that might even be part of the problem.  It all sounds so good that it almost doesn't sound like a live album, or at least it doesn't sound any different from The Way We Walk.  The "In the Cage" medley is pretty much the same, as is the "Old Medley" and even "Tonight, Tonight, Tonight" leading into "Invisible Touch" instead of the break.

So if you're not bothered by bands lowering the key to accomodate aging vocal chords, and live versions of songs that sound pretty much like the studio versions, or at least like earlier live versions, then by all means check this out.  But if you're bothered by pitch compensation, or would like live versions to vary from the studio versions by more than a few extra guitar licks and chopping a lot of good songs up into medleys, then there's no real need to get this album.

I'm not slamming Genesis for doing what they did.  They wanted to end things on a positive note; they've said so.  But to do it, and have Phil sing, they had to make certain adjustments, which may or may not bother you.  And the performances are great.  They're perfect.  And somehow they're nothing special.

----------

EPILOGUE

Well, it's been fun.  Another discography completed.  While Yes is still around -- they're actually working on a new album right now -- Genesis is gone, and sadly, they went out with a whimper rather than a bang, then came back and tried to give their story a proper ending, and just didn't have it in them.  And that's just how it goes sometimes.

Tony now writes orchestral music and the occassional movie soundtrack.  His SEVEN A Suite for Orchestra (2004) and SIX Pieces for Orchestra (2012) are both excellent.  (He refers to them as "Seven" and "Six")  They have the wonderful Tony Banks chords and cadences from the best instrumentals of Genesis, expanded and scored for orchestra.  I recommend both of them.

In 2011, Mike + The Mechanics released The Road, their first album in seven years.  And saying "their" is probably misleading, since Mike is the only original member left, and even before Paul Young's death in 2000, there was starting to be longer and longer gaps between albums, and more frequent lineup changes.

Anyone who has seen video footage of Phil playing the drums knows that he had a very odd, crouched stance on the drum stool.  Years of playing in this position has caused permanent damage to his spinal column, and despite several operations, he lives now with chronic pain, which is increased when he plays the drums or piano, or even when he sings.  Because of this, he has been battling depression, and formally announced his permanent retirement from music a few years ago.

[Jaq]

My copy of this CD lists the Old Medley as "Firth of Fifth (Excerpt)" and "I Know What I Like" as two separate tracks, but it is essentially a scaled down version of the Old Medley.

My reason for buying this was simple: I wanted to get the bad taste out of my mouth left by Calling All Stations. While my love for Genesis stretches all the way back to the start, it was the three piece version of the band that I fell in love with, and this touring line up actually was together as Genesis live longer than any other. And going into it I knew it'd be a by the numbers Genesis live album, with allowances for age in the vocals.

Still bought it anyway.

As live albums go, especially Genesis live albums go, this one is workmanlike. There isn't the fire the band had on Live, the confidence and power they had on Seconds Out, or even the swagger that came with success on Three Sides Live. This live album is more an old friend coming to pay you a visit. You're talking about the same old things, the same old familiarity, and maybe telling the same jokes you always did. It's not doing anything amazing-it hardly feels live at all. But yet, it's still Genesis, playing live, being that old friend you met back around 1981 or so, still telling you the same old jokes (and surprising you by including songs like Ripples in the playlist) and being that old familiar friend you knew, one last time. It isn't quite the goodbye we could have had if Fading Lights had truly been the end, and we'll never know, with Phil's retirement, what could have been. But in the end, it's Genesis. And that's all you need to know about this album.

Thanks for this thread, Orbert. While I enjoyed the Yes thread, I really liked this one. Genesis was my first progressive rock love, and they're still my favorite band from the classic prog era, and one of my five favorite bands period. This has been a blast.

[The Letter M]

It's a DECENT live album, but since there's not much NEW on it, you can basically find much of this material, with better sound and performing, on earlier live albums and singles. It does have a sort of "Here's one last release, for good ole times' sake" feeling, but that's about it. A shot of nostalgia for fans of  80's/Collins-led Genesis, but that's about it. At least they gave some Gabriel-Era fans more bits this time around, and surprises like "Ripples..." and "Los Endos" are nice, but I feel they could've been FAR more adventurous with the set list.

-Marc.

[Orbert]

My copy of this CD lists the Old Medley as "Firth of Fifth (Excerpt)" and "I Know What I Like" as two separate tracks, but it is essentially a scaled down version of the Old Medley.

I always start by listening to the albums "blind", and I recognized the Old Medley right away.  When I went to write up the track listing, I was actually surprised that they'd listed the songs that way, but I hate using "segue" and "excerpt" and stuff like that.  So I just listed the song titles.  It seemed more "complete" that way.

Then I realized that that was misleading.  Don't put "Firth of Fifth" or "The Cinema Show" if they only play part of it.  And in my writeup, I mentioned that many of the songs were just excerpts.  So I went back and added "(excerpt)" to "Tonight, Tonight, Tonight" and messed with the "Duke's" and "Cage" medleys to try and make some sense out of them, but I don't have a physical copy of the album and I don't trust how things are written up on Wikipedia (I've been burned once too many times) so I just did it my way.  And let's face it, the "Old Medley" went through numerous changes over the years, and this was just another version of it.  It has always annoyed me that that was the best title they could come up with, and in a way, it was almost cool that they didn't use it here.  But I took some creative license because people who listen to this album know what it is, and those who don't won't care.

I had to fight myself to work up the ambition to write this one.  Eventually, I just wanted to get it over with.  This was such a great band.  Yeah, it was nice to get a somewhat more positive ending to their story.  But if we're gonna go with the analogy of one last visit from an old friend, it was hard to enjoy this visit because he's old and decrepit now, a shadow of his former self but with just enough spark remaining to remind you of the old days, and make it that much more tragic what he's come to.  The songs weren't slowed down, but lowering the keys so much just changed them, robbed them of their energy and beauty.

It was nice to hear "Ripples" one last time.

[Sketchy]

I really like this final album, although I have to admit, part of it is because of the memory of the songs being played live. It's not their best work, but it's brilliant, and I love it. I'll admit, Ripples sounds wrong transposed down, but that's because it's Ripples. It's meant to be shiny, but we have the Hackett Gen Rev II version, which I think more than makes up for the lack of shiny in this version.

I've not heard any of the Mike stuff, but the Tony Banks orchestral CDs are really good. My stepfather has both.

[The Letter M]

I just realized there's still MORE albums you/we could be talking about! What about both Archive sets, which feature live material from all across Genesis' career, and then there's the bonus stuff on the 2007 remasters/remixes/re-releases, like the Rainbow show? And what about the Live Box and Movie Box sets as well?

Sure, most of that stuff is LIVE stuff, and I know that doesn't generate a lot of discussion, but it'd be interesting to note and document otherwise.

-Marc.

[Zydar]

Thanks for doing this, Orbert. Genesis is one of my favourite bands ever, although I didn't participate in their post-Hackett stuff.

[Orbert]

I just realized there's still MORE albums you/we could be talking about! What about both Archive sets, which feature live material from all across Genesis' career, and then there's the bonus stuff on the 2007 remasters/remixes/re-releases, like the Rainbow show? And what about the Live Box and Movie Box sets as well?

Sure, most of that stuff is LIVE stuff, and I know that doesn't generate a lot of discussion, but it'd be interesting to note and document otherwise.

I could, but the focus for me has always been a band's official studio and live albums.  You can get really carried away with all the compilations, especially those of bands that have been around for a long time (which is most of the bands I listen to).  So I made a decision up front to stick to "regular" albums, studio and live.

Also, I don't have most of those extraterrestrial compilations anyway.  I have the first Genesis archive because it was a gift, and the first two boxes because Amazon screwed up one time and had them for the same price as a regular single CD for about half a day, so I grabbed them.  But in general I see those as money-grabs by the label, and out of principle I tend not to buy them.

[Lolzeez]

Thanks for doing this, Orbert. Genesis is one of my favourite bands ever, although I didn't participate in their post-Hackett stuff.

[Orbert]

Y'all are welcome.    As always, I'm just sharing what I've got, hopefully in a way that others can gain something from.  (Man, that is a poorly constructed sentence.  Sunday morning and the coffee hasn't kicked in yet.)

Marc, if you want to discuss the box sets and archives and stuff, feel free to do so.  I originally conceived of the discography threads as a way to examine how the band's sound changed over the years, and how changes in personnel may or may not have contributed to those changes.  But a closer examination of the output itself is always a part of that, so it's not exactly out out place.

There's always the official Genesis appreciation thread (or whatever it's called), where pretty much anything goes that's related to the band.  If you talk about them there, you might get more participation, and I'll contribute what I can, since I do have some of that stuff.

[ddtonfire]

One of my biggest regrets in life is not seeing Genesis on this tour.