Question/discussion for Neal Morse, Transatlantic & Spock's Beard fans

[KevShmev]

I thought this would be an interesting question/poll.  When I did this poll:

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=30770.msg1208135#msg1208135

The Spock's Beard option won, but with adding the four non-Neal Beard albums into the mix, as well as Neal's new one plus the three TA albums, I thought it would be a bit more interesting.

If I compared them in order of occurrence, it would go like this:

The Light vs SMPTe: edge to SMPTe
Beware of Darkness vs Bridge Across Forever: edge to Bridge Across Forever
The Kindness of Strangers vs Testimony: too close to call
Day for Night vs One: edge to One
V vs ?: edge to ?
Snow vs Sola Scriptura: edge to Snow 
Feel Euphoria vs Lifeline: edge to Feel Euphoria
Octane vs The Whirlwind: edge to The Whirlwind
Spock's Beard vs Testimony Two: edge to T2
X vs Momentum: edge to X

Looks like it is 6-3-1 in favor of the TA/Neal stuff.  Plus, four of the best five albums are from the Neal/TA mix, and three of the four least best are from SB.  So, easy vote for me here.

[yorost]

If I compared them in order of occurrence, it would go like this:

Looks like it is 6-3-1 in favor of the TA/Neal stuff.

Always a funny way to compare lists.  As long as there is some mixture you can usually arrange them so either side would win.  Your points that followed made more sense to me.

[wasteland]

Yeah, same here. Neal's work (especially his "soly trilogy": ?, Sola and T2) and the 3 TA album (especially the first two) are close to the top of my all time favourite albums ever. By contrast, I never really cared for Spock's Beard, pre or post Neal leaving. So, no contest at all.

[bosk1]

Wow, can't believe the ratio of votes is 3-to-1.  This is turning into a landslide.

[rumborak]

I think SB still gets the edge for me. Neal just turned the crank too much on his later stuff.

[wasteland]

I think SB still gets the edge for me. Neal just turned the crank too much on his later stuff.

What do you mean exactly? Too much unrestrained flourish?

[ronnibran]

I like Neal's solo output SO much that I would easily take the solo records even against Spocks Beard and Transatlantic combined.  I don't know if I just prefer the style of those so much better (if it's really different?), or if I just connect better with spiritual lyrics...  Good question, though.

But, that being said, there are some Spocks Beard albums I like better than a couple of the Neal Morse solo ones, its just that the majority of the solo ones are so good they drag the average way up.  For example, I could never listen to "?" again and be totally fine with that...  And "V" is one of my favorite albums.

[The Letter M]

Went with Option 2 mostly because I LOVE Transatlantic, but Neal's post-SB Solo output is pretty consistent - every album is good-to-great. And not a knock on Nick-Era SB, but some of the tracks on FE/Octane/SB9 were a bit under-par, but then again, so are some of the tracks on TKOS/DFN/V and even on Snow.

I love both discographies, but Post-Neal SB has a few more downs than ups, but they really nailed it with X, and it was a shame that Nick had to leave, because a follow-up to X with NDV would've been amazing, but I still look forward to what SBv3 will have to offer in the band's 11th studio album.

-Marc.

[kirksnosehair]

I'd probably hold Neal's output in somewhat higher regard had he not made a half a dozen albums in a row on basically the same exact topic.  I love the guy's music, for the most part (although "Momentum" and "Lifeline" are pretty "meh") but I'd really like him to move on from the god thing.  I know he probably won't so it's really up to me if I'm going to keep shelling out money for his albums, but I just think, I dunno, the first two Transatlantic albums and a lot of the early Spock's Beard albums contained virtually the same message and I find that those albums actually spoke to my heart, whereas his stuff since the first Testimony album is really just something I tolerate more than enjoy, lyrically.   And I do not connect with his message now at all. 

[The Letter M]

I'd probably hold Neal's output in somewhat higher regard had he not made a half a dozen albums in a row on basically the same exact topic.  I love the guy's music, for the most part (although "Momentum" and "Lifeline" are pretty "meh") but I'd really like him to move on from the god thing.  I know he probably won't so it's really up to me if I'm going to keep shelling out money for his albums, but I just think, I dunno, the first two Transatlantic albums and a lot of the early Spock's Beard albums contained virtually the same message and I find that those albums actually spoke to my heart, whereas his stuff since the first Testimony album is really just something I tolerate more than enjoy, lyrically.   And I do not connect with his message now at all.

I'm not sure that's entirely true. Sure, his albums are religious in nature, but are so some SB songs, or even albums by The Flower Kings, even Yes. You just have to look deeper than the surface. Both Testimony albums are auto-biographical accounts of Neal's personal life, while One tells the story of the creation/separation/reunion of man and God. The ? album is something entirely different in that it is more like a story/narrative concept about the tabernacle in the wilderness, while Sola Scriptura tells the story of Luther. They're all different albums, conceptually, but saying they are all on the "exact same topic" is a bit close-minded and not at all true. It's like saying all of Rush's earlier albums (after the debut) were all about literary influences/Ayn Rand... or that all of the Gabriel-Era Genesis albums were just English-pastiche.

It's easy to dismiss his religious-tinged output as being "all the same" if you don't like it, or if it doesn't speak to you, but it's really not true. If you don't like it, just say you don't like albums about religious conversion/spiritual awakening, or man's connection to God, or stories about the tabernacle, or recounts of historically significant religious figures.

I mean, look at Jon Anderson - he's got a lot of spiritually infused lyrics, and I don't even get or understand half of them (especially Tales From Topographic Oceans - wtf is THAT about?!), but I still love the music, and the lyrics are good, even if I don't understand or fully connect with them. As for Neal, whether or not you see his lyrics as "a message" is up to you, but for me, I see his albums/lyrics/concepts as stories, tales of religious content, and not preachy at all.

-Marc.

[KevShmev]

Amen to that!  Pun intended.

Really, I get why non-spiritual people don't like the lyrics on Neal's solo albums, but to say they are all about the exact same thing is just lazy.  Sure, the general topic might be the same, but there are many different subjects under that umbrella.  It's like saying every episode about The Sopranos is about the same thing because it's all about the mafia.

[kirksnosehair]

Sorry, I just see it as a bunch of albums in a row that all cover Christian religion.  Kind of because it was a bunch of albums in a row that all cover Christian religion 


Hey, I bought every one of them.  I even listen to them.  But I tire of the message after a while, because it doesn't speak to me like the more subtle spiritual message in the TA and SB stuff did.   You guys can defend him all you want and I'm fully aware that he tries to present his material on somewhat different aspects of the Christian religious message, but at the end of the day (see what I did thar?    ) every one of those albums has the same message in it at some point. (the "Jesus as savior" thing)  I can read, you know.  It's cool, I still like the guy, I just prefer his lyric writing pre-solo.

[rumborak]

I think SB still gets the edge for me. Neal just turned the crank too much on his later stuff.

What do you mean exactly? Too much unrestrained flourish?

You've never heard that criticism before about Neal?
Thing is, the first two solo albums were cool and still had a good amount of new stuff in them. But after that it seemed he just settled on the tried-and-true instrumentation, chord progressions etc. I had the impression I was listening to the same album over and over again.

rumborak

[ronnibran]

Sorry, I just see it as a bunch of albums in a row that all cover Christian religion.  Kind of because it was a bunch of albums in a row that all cover Christian religion 


Hey, I bought every one of them.  I even listen to them.  But I tire of the message after a while, because it doesn't speak to me like the more subtle spiritual message in the TA and SB stuff did.   You guys can defend him all you want and I'm fully aware that he tries to present his material on somewhat different aspects of the Christian religious message, but at the end of the day (see what I did thar?    ) every one of those albums has the same message in it at some point. (the "Jesus as savior" thing)  I can read, you know.  It's cool, I still like the guy, I just prefer his lyric writing pre-solo.

I TOTALLY see what you're saying.  And I get that feeling with most of his new music.  For example, World Without End is basically the same "parable" as So Many Roads, Dancing With Eternal Glory, Seeds of Gold, etc...  Same basic story just worded differently.  Just cause I love every second of it doesn't mean I don't think it from time to time...  Especially after reading his biography I am seeing ALL of his lyrics as rehashing parts of his story.  I don't mean that as a criticism personally, as I am fine with the music he is putting out.  But I can see how it could affect other listeners.

[Nick]

Bridge Across Forever, Whirlwind, ?, and possibly One are better than anything Spock's has done, and that gives the TA/Neal category a big bump that SB could never overcome.

[ColdFireYYZ]

While I love the 3 TA albums and the Neal albums that I've heard (?, T2, Sola Scriptura, T2 Live) I slightly prefer Spock's Beard. The classic line-up with Neal couldn't be beat imo and they've done very well without him. X is right up there with V, my favorite SB album.  And I'm sure the new album will be very good as well.

[Elite]

I went with Spock's Beard, but that's mainly because I like Spock's Beard output more than Morse's solo stuff. Transatlantic's output is god-tier, as is ?, but I also really love The Light, V, Beard's self-titled, X and Octane.

[jingle.boy]

Voted SB.  I'm with Barry and Rich.  I too REALLY love the solo work musically, it's just thematically it gets too repetitive.  I can say the same for Blind Guardian, Rhapsody (with or without Fire), and others I'm sure if I thought about it for a bit.  It doesn't have as much to do with it being a religious theme (I absolutely love Affector/Harmagedon), it's just that it's too much of the same theme lyrically.  I can only take his solo work in fits and spurts.

Spock's Beard, I could listen to their discography start to finish and not get bored.

That's just my two cents.