How to get a job?

[Perpetual Change]

Quick question-- how should a subject line on a e-mail look? Is, say, "Application for Associate Editor position" fine? Or should it be something more descriptive like, "Experienced recent grad for Associate Editor"?

Are you talking about editing as in video editing?

No, writing.

[Blazinarps]

PC-

Quick question-- how should a subject line on a e-mail look? Is, say, "Application for Associate Editor position" fine? Or should it be something more descriptive like, "Experienced recent grad for Associate Editor"?

It depends on if you're responding to an actual job posting, or if you're just giving them an application/resume blindly.

I would say if it's in response to a job posting, then "Application (or resume depending on the circumstance) for Associate Editor Position would work.

If it's just you giving them your resume, the second would be fine.

[Blazinarps]

To follow up with a prior post, contact sheets/logs are probably one of the most important parts of a job search.

When you make first contact, you can write down what was said, and by whom. You can reference this when you speak to someone the next time. Some people have the opinion that you should never miss a call from a potential employer. I do not.

I think it's better to let a call go to voicemail, organize yourself, and prepare yourself to talk to whoever is calling you. Get your contact sheet out, find out what the last contact with them was, and call back.  It's much better to make a manager wait a couple minutes to hear you at your best, than to talk to them immediately and have a scrambled idea of what is going on. "Sorry Steve, I was in the other room when you called."

Resumes need to look good. There are computer programs nowadays that compare words on resume to words on job description/posting. The more words that are in common, the better chance your resume will be reviewed by human eyes. This of course is mainly with very large corporations, not a family owned grocery store... Take your time and look at job posting, and compare it to your resume.

Resumes should be neat, and not more than one page, plus one page for references. Everything needs to be uniform. If you have your first employers name in 14 size font, the other employers names need to be to. Your job duties are bullet pointed? Better make sure they all are.

Whether to put dates of employment is a big debate. I think, from speaking to managers, they prefer not to have dates. Dates can give away how old you are, and they don't need any hint of discrimination based on age i.e. you worked for one company for 27 years. Congrats, but that also lets them know you are late 40's at least.

[Ħ]

Just got an email back from the Intermediate Symbolic Logic professor I had this summer. I got an A+ in his class, and I got an A+ in the Beginner Symbolic Logic course too. I had asked him if there were any academic internships or supporting research positions he knew of in the philosophy department.

He said that there was nothing like that, although some faculty will support students through research funds (but mostly grad students). He then said "we can meet and chat about this, if you want". I'll take him up on it. But from the sounds of it, it's just a "hand-out" thing rather than some kind of employment I can use for experience.

[Perpetual Change]

Thanks, Blazinarps.

@H, Being a funded research student is not accepting a "hand-out". It's how good students get to do graduate school. You'll get your Master degree while doing work for the department and your professors. It's good experience. And it's definitely the type of experience you should be putting on a resume.

[Ħ]

Being a funded research student is not accepting a "hand-out". It's how good students get to do graduate school. You'll get your Master degree while doing work for the department and your professors. It's good experience. And it's definitely the type of experience you should be putting on a resume.

OK. I'm just kinda confused by all the different terminology. It sounded like the grad students, who are required to do research regardless, are just fundraising from different profs. Like financial aid. But if it is what you say it is, where it's an actual research project assigned by the prof, I would totally be on board with that.

[theseoafs]

Yes.  Professors don't give free booze money out to students.  Research grants would be tied to a research project.

[kirksnosehair]

I am not sold on the idea of calling to follow-up on an application. I talked to some HR people about it once, and it just seemed to piss them off.

I will tell you that this hiring manager doesn't call back job applicants.  Every single person I've ever hired has been someone who applied to work here then called me back after applying to follow up. It shows interest and initiative.  Two good qualities I look for in my staff.   Any HR people who are "pissed off" about a prospective employee following up on a job application sound more like baggage than good employees to me.  We've got a few of them around here.  They show up late, leave early, spend most of the day on Facebook or gossiping with co-"workers"    and generally don't give a shit about their jobs.  I've never seen any of them last more than a year or two before getting the can.

[Perpetual Change]

They show up late, leave early, spend most of the day on Facebook or gossiping with co-"workers" 

As opposed to DTF? 

But yeah, I get your point of view. And I've seen it shared by some. But there also seem to be a lot of people who'd prefer you not call to follow up, at least until after you'd been interviewed. I guess it depends on the personality. I definitely thank you for sharing your expertise with me 

Out of curiosity, when do you prefer applicants follow up? Right away, or a few weeks later?

[kirksnosehair]

When I tell them to.


It's one of the first things I do to test applicants, tells me if they can follow instructions.


"Call me Tuesday at 9"

[RuRoRul]

I am not sold on the idea of calling to follow-up on an application. I talked to some HR people about it once, and it just seemed to piss them off.

I will tell you that this hiring manager doesn't call back job applicants.

I can't imagine wanting to work for an employer that operated like this. I am not an employer nor particularly experienced in going through these processes but none of the ones I've gone through in the past have ever worked like that. Perhaps it is different if you are just sending them your resume of your own volition rather than applying for a specific position but I can't imagine emailing or calling up someone from HR in a large company to "follow up" on your application for a graduate job would improve your chances at all. From what I've seen most employers will respond to these applications (even if it's with a simple "no") and you pestering someone who has responsibilities other than picking a candidate for this particular role doesn't seem like it would change your eventual response to a "yes".

[kirksnosehair]

I am not sold on the idea of calling to follow-up on an application. I talked to some HR people about it once, and it just seemed to piss them off.

I will tell you that this hiring manager doesn't call back job applicants.

I can't imagine wanting to work for an employer that operated like this. I am not an employer nor particularly experienced in going through these processes but none of the ones I've gone through in the past have ever worked like that. Perhaps it is different if you are just sending them your resume of your own volition rather than applying for a specific position but I can't imagine emailing or calling up someone from HR in a large company to "follow up" on your application for a graduate job would improve your chances at all. From what I've seen most employers will respond to these applications (even if it's with a simple "no") and you pestering someone who has responsibilities other than picking a candidate for this particular role doesn't seem like it would change your eventual response to a "yes".

Well, I don't think I suggesting pestering.  *scans post*  Nope, I didn't suggest that at all 

3. What you can do is this: A few days or a week after applying, it’s okay to follow up with the hiring manager to reiterate your interest in the job. It’s important to do this well, however. Note that many hiring managers despise the common job-search advice to call “to schedule an interview,” which can come across as overly aggressive and even presumptuous. A good-follow call or email might sound something like this: “I submitted my application for your __ position last week, and I just want to make sure you received my materials. I also want to reiterate my interest in the position; I think it might be a great match, and I'd love to talk with you about it when you're ready to begin scheduling interviews.”

Source


Wanna guess how I got my job?  I applied, then followed up with the guy who interviewed me.  All I did was leave him a voice mail.  And he called me back.  Wanna know what he told me when he hired me?  He told me I was the only applicant out of 12 who called him back.  That was 13 years ago and now I have his job.

[RuRoRul]

I am not sold on the idea of calling to follow-up on an application. I talked to some HR people about it once, and it just seemed to piss them off.

I will tell you that this hiring manager doesn't call back job applicants.

I can't imagine wanting to work for an employer that operated like this. I am not an employer nor particularly experienced in going through these processes but none of the ones I've gone through in the past have ever worked like that. Perhaps it is different if you are just sending them your resume of your own volition rather than applying for a specific position but I can't imagine emailing or calling up someone from HR in a large company to "follow up" on your application for a graduate job would improve your chances at all. From what I've seen most employers will respond to these applications (even if it's with a simple "no") and you pestering someone who has responsibilities other than picking a candidate for this particular role doesn't seem like it would change your eventual response to a "yes".

Well, I don't think I suggesting pestering.  *scans post*  Nope, I didn't suggest that at all 

3. What you can do is this: A few days or a week after applying, it’s okay to follow up with the hiring manager to reiterate your interest in the job. It’s important to do this well, however. Note that many hiring managers despise the common job-search advice to call “to schedule an interview,” which can come across as overly aggressive and even presumptuous. A good-follow call or email might sound something like this: “I submitted my application for your __ position last week, and I just want to make sure you received my materials. I also want to reiterate my interest in the position; I think it might be a great match, and I'd love to talk with you about it when you're ready to begin scheduling interviews.”

Source


Wanna guess how I got my job?  I applied, then followed up with the guy who interviewed me.  All I did was leave him a voice mail.  And he called me back.  Wanna know what he told me when he hired me?  He told me I was the only applicant out of 12 who called him back.  That was 13 years ago and now I have his job.

I know you didn't suggest pestering them, but I can't help but thinking that suggesting that you must get in contact to follow up about an application in order to get the job is going to lead to people doing that. Perhaps the types of jobs I am thinking of are different to what you are talking about but I haven't come across an application process for graduate level jobs that don't confirm that they have recieved your application, that don't get back to you about whether your application was successful or not, that don't contact you about scheduling your interview, the results of your interview, etc. If you haven't heard back about an application or interview within a reasonable timeframe (bearing min mind hiring someone for that particular position is not always going to be a company's top priority) I'd definitely suggest getting into contact with the employer, but I think it's a decision to be made on a case by case basis rather than "You must show initiative and contact them to get a job".

But then I'm not exactly the best person to be taking advice from since I am still at university and don't have a job yet.

[wolfandwolfandwolf]

H, you can do all the administrative stuff I have to at my job that I don't like doing.

[Ħ]

Wait are you serious?

[Perpetual Change]

Contacting someone after an interview and calling up an HR rep after submitting an application are two completely different animals. The former is expected, and you're well within your rights to do that. The latter is not, and is seen as an annoyance.

Also, @Hayden:

Unless you're a trust-fund baby OR you don't mind going into debt in exchange for only marginally enhancing your career prospects, you don't pay for graduate school. You get tuition waved and (hopefully) a meager salary working as a personal slave for your adviser and academic department Research/Teacher Assistant, where you'll help the department and your adviser with stuff that ideally has to do with your field and (probably) teach a tutorial class or two. That's how you do it, if you're smart. Unless you're going into something that promises you big bucks later to pay off student loan debts (i.e., law school or med school-- and then you still better be careful!), you don't want to be driving yourself into debt for your Master in Fine Arts  (Or any advanced degree without immediate practical use )

I'm sure your professor will tell you all about this-- and more-- though.

[Ħ]

Wow, didn't know that. I figured most people just did financial aid and paid it off later, like for your undergrad.

[Perpetual Change]

Wow, didn't know that. I figured most people just did financial aid and paid it off later, like for your undergrad.

Well, some people do. But it's not the best move. I've noticed a couple different categories of grad student:

1.) Kids that are good students but not necessarily wealthy enough to pursue graduate school without going into debt. These are usually the good students who form good relationships with their professors as undergrads, and by doing so wind-up studying a graduate degree and working as an RA/TA under the guidance of those professors OR their friends in other universities. This is what category I belonged to.

2.) People out of the military, who've served a term (or are going to) and are having Uncle Sam pay for their grad school. I hardly notice people in the humanities like this: usually, these people are getting the law or med degrees or something practical. I did know someone who went into History and wound up becoming a professor, however.

3.) Rich yuppie kids whose parents will pay whatever to let their children follow their dreams. If this is you, awesome. But, the people in category one will still have an edge on you because they'll get work experience working as RA's and TA's and they'll develop their connections in the field.

4.) Working, part-time people who are doing their advanced degrees on their own dime in addition to full-time work so they can get promoted.

[Adami]

Everyone I knew in graduate school was paying for it, usually with loans. I didn't meet a single person who was having their tuition waved.

[theseoafs]

Well, people in doctoral programs are more likely to have their tuition waived than people in master's programs.  It's ideal, and possible, to have your tuition waived as a master's student, but I'm not sure that it's very common.

[kirksnosehair]

Contacting someone after an interview and calling up an HR rep after submitting an application are two completely different animals. The former is expected, and you're well within your rights to do that. The latter is not, and is seen as an annoyance.

I'm sorry, I don't know where you're getting that from, but I disagree.


It can be an annoyance if you don't handle it properly, but what I'm suggesting is the people who get and stay employed in this world are the people are out there going and getting those jobs.   And you don't necessarily go and get that job you want by tossing your application into a pile in the front office of Big Huge Company, Inc. and never following up on it with anyone.   In an economy where an entry level landscaping position advertised on Craig's List or Jobs.com nets and employer 400 applications in two days, I'm suggesting that it just might be in the best interest of the applicant who really wants and needs to get hired as soon as possible that reaching out to the people who are processing those applications in a professional, polite and courteous manner may just be the difference between getting that interview and not getting that interview.

[Perpetual Change]

Everyone I knew in graduate school was paying for it, usually with loans. I didn't meet a single person who was having their tuition waved.

That is, by far, the most common scenario at the Master's level. But it's also the least preferable, IMO. Well, aside from maybe the military option. At least in a country this belligerent.

Contacting someone after an interview and calling up an HR rep after submitting an application are two completely different animals. The former is expected, and you're well within your rights to do that. The latter is not, and is seen as an annoyance.

I'm sorry, I don't know where you're getting that from, but I disagree.


It can be an annoyance if you don't handle it properly, but what I'm suggesting is the people who get and stay employed in this world are the people are out there going and getting those jobs.   And you don't necessarily go and get that job you want by tossing your application into a pile in the front office of Big Huge Company, Inc. and never following up on it with anyone.   In an economy where an entry level landscaping position advertised on Craig's List or Jobs.com nets and employer 400 applications in two days, I'm suggesting that it just might be in the best interest of the applicant who really wants and needs to get hired as soon as possible that reaching out to the people who are processing those applications in a professional, polite and courteous manner may just be the difference between getting that interview and not getting that interview.

I get that completely. But not all employers like that. I've spoken to ones who've told me they hate it, and it doesn't help at all. I'm not sure why this seems to be making you so upset.

[theseoafs]

I get that completely. But not all employers like that. I've spoken to ones who've told me they hate it, and it doesn't help at all. I'm not sure why this seems to be making you so upset.

Probably because you're giving H bad advice.

[Adami]

Everyone I knew in graduate school was paying for it, usually with loans. I didn't meet a single person who was having their tuition waved.

That is, by far, the most common scenario at the Master's level. But it's also the least preferable, IMO.

Well obviously paying for it is not preferable.

[Perpetual Change]

I get that completely. But not all employers like that. I've spoken to ones who've told me they hate it, and it doesn't help at all. I'm not sure why this seems to be making you so upset.

Probably because you're giving H bad advice.

Um, OK?

I know plenty of people who work in professional level jobs. Which they've gotten in "this economy". And none of them called to "check in" on the status of an application. After an interview? Sure. After sending an app out? No.

I never said it was a bad idea to call. But it's not necessarily a good idea, either.  And just because someone with an aggressive personality like kirsnosehair likes it does not mean everyone will.

Well obviously paying for it is not preferable.

That's what I'm getting at. And it's not preferable for more reasons than just financial ones. I was simply trying to stress to H that an assistantship is more than just a "hand-out".

[kirksnosehair]

Good luck with your job hunt, H. 

[jcmistat]

Having connections is the best thing. It mainly depends on what job you're looking for. Any job just to make some cash like retail, food, lower wage jobs just apply you should get in. If you have a friend or family member that works there have them put in a word for you. Of course while they're hiring is a plus.

[rumborak]

Chestlist:

-career advising department
-check for student jobs
-check for volunteer positions in the meantime

Yeah...um...here's another item to add:  Spellcheck and proof read your resume and other documents.

Let me emphasize this. I was in email correspondence with a candidate who wrote

"Could you please send E-Mail that what time slot would work"

and

"We can finger this out Tomorrow"

 No job for you!!

[wkiml]

Late to the party here and didn't read the whole thread but my suggestion is find out who is in charge of hiring and offer sexual favors

[Ħ]

ok

Well I got back from talking to the philosophy professor. He gave me the rundown on how to do what he is doing. Basically at a 3.0 GPA, things are not looking so good for applying for a phd program. But as a philosphy/biochem double major, I have an advantage over plain old philosophy majors. Since there's no way I can really bolster my GPA this far in the game at university (maybe I could get it to a 3.25), I will likely have to do a MA program first. Since there aren't academic internships or research positions in the department, I will also have to sugarcoat my resume with extracurriculars such as joining the Philosophy Club (oh boy!), trying to win philosophy department contests (Paper of the Year!), or by trying to submit papers to an undergraduate journal.

In the meantime, I'm applying to food service on campus. I have a friend who's a manager who can basically pull my application out of the stack. Yay!

[DebraKadabra]

There is always this though...

Late to the party here and didn't read the whole thread but my suggestion is find out who is in charge of hiring and offer sexual favors

 

[Ħ]

Yeahhh got a food service interview later today. Let you know how it goes. My friend says there's like an 80% success rate. Time to dominate.

[TioJorge]

Best of luck to ya! I'm going in for my first day as a bartender for a pretty fancy shmancy restaurant. Been studying up on my liquors and mixed drinks and whatnot. It's a shame I'll be making 'em and not drinking 'em for a while.  Hopefully it'll be a smooth first day; I used to be a server so I know the deal, it's just a different gig this time around. Food service is definitely not the most glamorous of jobs but if you work hard you'll be making some good money to help with school, which is exactly what I'm doing. We can do it! My dad always tells me how he worked two jobs through his entire college career so thinking about that makes the 'butterflies' kind of disappear.

[snapple]

What I did:

walk into the employer's office
whip my dick out
"it ain't gonna suck itself"
get the job and a blow job

[theseoafs]

Yeahhh got a food service interview later today. Let you know how it goes. My friend says there's like an 80% success rate. Time to dominate.