Metallica Survivor v. I AM THE TABLE

[Onno]

Hey guys!

I'm going to set up the Metallica survivor. This survivor will have a similar setup to the Opeth survivor black_floyd is doing: we'll cover each album and take the top 2 songs from each. The third song will run in a consolation round for a wild card to the finals, which are all the top 2 songs including the consolation round winner. I'll also do a non-album round, which will include Beyond Magnetic and the non-album tracks from S&M (I think that's it for the non-album songs?). Lastly, I'd like to ask you if we should include Garage, Inc and Lulu. Personally, I would not include Lulu, because 1. it's a collaboration album 2. I don't know the songs on it well enough and 3. it sucks.

So, you'll have 2 days to vote to include Garage and Lulu, and after that I'll start the survivor.


FINAL RESULTS


1. One
2. Master of Puppets
3. Blackened
4. Creeping Death
5. Battery
6. Ride the Lightning
7. Welcome Home (Sanitarium)
8. The Four Horsemen
9. The Unforgiven
10. Bleeding Me
11. Seek & Destroy
12. Wherever I May Roam
13. The Outlaw Torn
14. That Was Just Your Life
15. All Nightmare Long
16. Low Man's Lyric
17. Fixxxer
18. The Unnamed Feeling
19. Frantic

Thanks to everyone participating and to Scorpion for taking over when I was gone! It was great!

_____________________________________________________________________



RESULTSSSSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

Kill 'Em All:

Winners:
The Four Horsemen
Seek & Destroy

Consolation:
3. Whiplash

Rest:

4. Jump in the Fire
5. Motorbreath
6. No Remorse
7. Hit the Lights
8. Phantom Lord
9. Metal Militia
10. Anesthesia  (Pulling Teeth)


Ride the Lightning:

Winners:
Ride the Lightning
Creeping Death

Consolation:
3. Fade to Black

Rest:

4. For Whom The Bell Tolls
5. The Call of Ktulu
6. Fight Fire With Fire
7. Trapped Under Ice
8. Escape


Master of Puppets:

Winners:
Puppetz
Sanitarium

Consolation:
Battery

Rest:
4. Orion
5. Heroes
6. Damage
7. Thingy
8. Messiah



...And Justice For All:

Winners:
Blackened
One

Consolation:
Justice

Rest:
4. Dyers
    Harvie
6. Eye
7. To Live
8. Frayed Ends
9. Straw


The Black Album:

Winners
Unforgiven
Wherever I May Roam

Consolation
Nothing Else Matters

Rest:
4. Sandman
5. Sad
6. Misery
7. Wolf
8. God
9. Struggle
10. Never
11. Holier
12. Tread

Load:

Winners:
Bleeding Me
The Outlaw Torn

Consolation:
Until It Sleeps

Rest:
4. King Nothing
5. Ain't My Bitch
6. The House Jack Built
7. Mama Said
8. Thorn Within
9. Hero of the Day
10. Cure
11. 2x4
12. Wasting My Hate
13. Poor Twisted Me
14. Ronnie

ReLoad:

Winners:
Low Man's Lyric
Fixxxer

Consolation:
Unforgiven II

Rest:
4. Fuel
    Devil's Dance
6. Where The Wild Things Are
7. The Memory Remains
8. Prince Charming
9. Slither
10. Carpe Diem Baby
11. Bad Seed
12. Better Than You
13. Attitude

Garage, Inc. Disc 1:

1. Mercyful Fate
2. Turn the Page
3. Whiskey in the Jar
4. Astronomy
5. Sabbra Cadabra
6. Tuesday's Gone
7. It's Electric
8. Die, Die, My Darling
9. Free Speech for the Dumb
10. The More I See
11. Loverman

Garage, Inc. Disc 2:

1. Am I Evil?
2. Breadfan
3. The Prince
4. Helpless
5. Blitzkrieg
6. Stone Cold Crazy
7. Killing Time
8. Last Caress/Green Hell
9. Too Late, Too Late
10. Stone Dead Forever
11. Damage Case
12. The Wait
13. The Small Hours
14. Overkill
15. Crash Course in Brain Surgery
16. So What

St. Anger:

Winners:
Frantic
The Unnamed Feeling

Consolation:
St. Anger

Rest:
4. All Within My Hands
5. Shoot Me Again
6. Some Kind of Monster
7. Sweet Amber
8. Invisible Kid
9. Dirty Window
10. My World
11. Purify

Death Magnetic

Winners:
1. All Nightmare Long
2. That Was Just Your Life

Consolation
3. The End of the Line

Rest
4. The Judas Kiss
5. Cyanide
6. The Day That Never Comes
7. Broken, Beat & Scarred
8. Unforgiven III
9. My Apocalypse
10. Suicide & Redemption

Consolation

1. Battery
2. Fade to Black
3. ...And Justice for All
4. Nothing Else Matters
5. Whiplash
6. Until It Sleeps
7. The End of the Line
8. The Unforgiven II
9. St. Anger

Finalists

The Four Horsemen
Seek and Destroy
Ride the Lightning
Creeping Death
Battery
Master of Puppets
Welcome Home (Sanitarium)
Blackened
One
The Unforgiven
Wherever I May Roam
Bleeding Me
The Outlaw Torn
Low Man's Lyrics
Fixxxer
Frantic
The Unnamed Feeling
That Was Just Your Life
All Nightmare Long

[Unlegit]

Garage Inc only.

[Mladen]

Neither.

There's no point having covers in a survivor, as they will obviously be the first ones to go in the consolation rounds and the finals, and although I really liked Lulu, I don't consider it a Metallica album.

[black_biff_stadler]

Garage Inc. only. I know it's only covers but Am I Evil, Breadfan, Turn the Page, and Whiskey in the Jar (among several others to varying degrees) are clearly accepted in the Metallica pantheon as embodying the spirit of their music.

Lulu is on record as literally being a Lou Reed album and given the consensus of their fans, especially on DTF, it doesn't seem to have nearly enough merit to warrant a special exemption.

Neither.

There's no point having covers in a survivor, as they will obviously be the first ones to go in the consolation rounds and the finals, and although I really liked Lulu, I don't consider it a Metallica album.

Well by that logic, wouldn't St. Anger be ineligible as well? I say it like this because you seem to be equating likelihood of failure with ineligibility.

[wolfking]

I'd include them, even though they would get voted off early, give them a chance. Some of the Garage Inc. songs are classic and could possibly do quite well.

[Mladen]

Good point. I guess the general problem with these survivors is that every album has a chance to have a couple of its songs featured in the finals. Still, being that they are original songs and not covers, they should still be given the chance.

[wolfking]

Good point. I guess the general problem with these survivors is that every album has a chance to have a couple of its songs featured in the finals. Still, being that they are original songs and not covers, they should still be given the chance.

That's a great point too.

What about putting both the albums in a survivor together, like a 'other Metallica songs' survivor, that way if none of the Lulu songs would normally make it past the first round, we'd only have the most popular from Garage Inc. in the finals.

[Scorpion]

Good point. I guess the general problem with these survivors is that every album has a chance to have a couple of its songs featured in the finals. Still, being that they are original songs and not covers, they should still be given the chance.

That's a great point too.

What about putting both the albums in a survivor together, like a 'other Metallica songs' survivor, that way if none of the Lulu songs would normally make it past the first round, we'd only have the most popular from Garage Inc. in the finals.

I like this idea. Don't know how to vote for it, though.

[black_biff_stadler]

I think survivors are horribly flawed from the getgo. I think a much better system to go by, assuming you're actually interested in honest accurate results, would be to have people pick a quantity of songs for a list that will be both large enough to be a good sample size of the band's discography while not being so large that less avid fans would have to start blindly guessing at songs just to finish out the back end of their lists.

I think somewhere between 10 and 25 would work for most bands depending on the size of their discography. Then just have it work like this:

If the format dictates that you list 10 songs then 1st place votes are worth 10 points, 2nd place gets 9, and so on until 10th place only gets 1 point.

If you have more songs than 1st place votes are worth more because no matter what, the last song on a list gets 1 point and from there the point values ascend in increments of 1.

[Onno]

I think survivors are horribly flawed from the getgo. I think a much better system to go by, assuming you're actually interested in honest accurate results, would be to have people pick a quantity of songs for a list that will be both large enough to be a good sample size of the band's discography while not being so large that less avid fans would have to start blindly guessing at songs just to finish out the back end of their lists.

I think somewhere between 10 and 25 would work for most bands depending on the size of their discography. Then just have it work like this:

If the format dictates that you list 10 songs then 1st place votes are worth 10 points, 2nd place gets 9, and so on until 10th place only gets 1 point.

If you have more songs than 1st place votes are worth more because no matter what, the last song on a list gets 1 point and from there the point values ascend in increments of 1.

So your idea is that everyone just submits a fixed amount of songs between 10-25 and that we determine the best songs by using points that are assigned to places in the list? That would give a better picture. But the main issue with that IMO is that some people (well at least me) will have trouble creating their own top X songs. I would need a large amount of time to do that; I can't just tell you what my favourite 20 Metallica songs are, because I don't know exactly myself. I'd have to put all songs in a list and slowly determine which one's better than another.

I agree that a survivor does not give you 100% accurate results, but it is easy to do, is fun and gives a general image of what songs and albums people like.

[black_biff_stadler]

Oh, I didn't mean to come across as though I was trying to sway you into abandoning the survivor format. I was just generally venting against how the survivor format has been the status quo on this forum despite it's numerous fallibilities.

It was your idea to start this anyway so don't let me rain on your parade. Oh and check out more Byzantine. I'll gladly make recommendations

[Onno]

Oh, I didn't mean to come across as though I was trying to sway you into abandoning the survivor format. I was just generally venting against how the survivor format has been the status quo on this forum despite it's numerous fallibilities.

It was your idea to start this anyway so don't let me rain on your parade. Oh and check out more Byzantine. I'll gladly make recommendations

Never mind, I'd figured something like that, since you've been organising the Opeth survivor yourself; it would be rather strange if you'd try to sway me into abandoning the format while you were still using it^^ And I'll gladly check out some more Byzantine; I found them on Spotify, so if you have any recommendations just PM me

EDIT: Also, I've been thinking about how many albums/rounds we should do at a time. I guess that if we do only one album (round) at a time, this whole thing could take half a year, and I'd like it to be a little bit faster. But if we do 2 at a time, this might cause congestion of the Survivor subforum as mentioned here.

[The King in Crimson]

Do both.

Garage, Inc has some great covers that have become Metallica classics and Lulu, well, you're doing St. Anger so why the fuck not?

[Onno]

Do both.

Garage, Inc has some great covers that have become Metallica classics and Lulu, well, you're doing St. Anger so why the fuck not?

That's insulting! St. Anger >>> Lulu, even though St. Anger is still the worst Metallica album.

[Elite]

Neither.

Garage Inc. is a cover-album and Lulu isn't a Metallica album.

[Zook]

Neither.

Garage Inc. is a cover-album and Lulu isn't a Metallica album.

[Destiny Of Chaos]

Oh, I didn't mean to come across as though I was trying to sway you into abandoning the survivor format. I was just generally venting against how the survivor format has been the status quo on this forum despite it's numerous fallibilities.

It was your idea to start this anyway so don't let me rain on your parade. Oh and check out more Byzantine. I'll gladly make recommendations

I'm with you, which is why I gave up the Dream Theater survivor for the league format.

[chknptpie]

Garage Inc only

[black_biff_stadler]

Oh, I didn't mean to come across as though I was trying to sway you into abandoning the survivor format. I was just generally venting against how the survivor format has been the status quo on this forum despite it's numerous fallibilities.

It was your idea to start this anyway so don't let me rain on your parade. Oh and check out more Byzantine. I'll gladly make recommendations

I'm with you, which is why I gave up the Dream Theater survivor for the league format.

I never followed the league when it was going on. What were the specifics?

[jjrock88]

This would be a very interesting survivor.

[Dimitrius]

lolulu

If you must include one let it only be Garage Inc.

[Nekov]

Neither thank you very much

[Gadough]

Just Lulu

[black_biff_stadler]

Sad but Drew.

[Onno]

Given the fact that there are 18 people that want to Garage, Inc to be included and 17 that don't, I'll just include it. But because it contains only covers, it will not run in the grand final. The first round for Kill 'Em All will be up any minute 

[Onno]

Kill 'Em All:

Winners:
The Four Horsemen
Seek & Destroy

Consolation:
3. Whiplash

Rest:

4. Jump in the Fire
5. Motorbreath
6. No Remorse
7. Hit the Lights
8. Phantom Lord
9. Metal Militia
10. Anesthesia  (Pulling Teeth)

RTL Round 1 is up here.

[black_biff_stadler]

Oh lordy Please don't make the ultra-lame mistake of being one of those dudes that doesn't run final rounds to decide an actual winner for each album.

[Destiny Of Chaos]

Oh lordy Please don't make the ultra-lame mistake of being one of those dudes that doesn't run final rounds to decide an actual winner for each album.

I don't know when that became the norm around here but it is what it is.

[Onno]

Oh lordy Please don't make the ultra-lame mistake of being one of those dudes that doesn't run final rounds to decide an actual winner for each album.

I don't know when that became the norm around here but it is what it is.

Yeah, I guess so. If we were to do that, then the consolation round would be unnecessary. Moreover, if we do a grand final featuring the consolation winner and the 2 best songs from each album, we can also derive the winner of each album from the results of the grand final.

[Onno]

Ride the Lightning:

Winners:
Ride the Lightning
Creeping Death

Consolation:
3. Fade to Black

Rest:

4. For Whom The Bell Tolls
5. The Call of Ktulu
6. Fight Fire With Fire
7. Trapped Under Ice
8. Escape

[Mladen]

I'm interested to see how you guys would rank these songs. I'll give it a shot...

1. Fight fire with fire
2. Ride the lightning
3. Creeping death
4. For whom the bell tolls
5. Fade to black
6. The Call of Ktulu
7. Trapped under ice
8. Escape

It's not too different from the results, except FFWF is at the top and FWTBT and FTB switched places.

[Onno]

I guess for me, it'd be something like this:

1. Creeping Death
2. Ride the Lightning
3. Fade to Black
4. For Whom The Bell Tolls
5. The Call of Ktulu
6. Fight Fire With Fire
7. Trapped Under Ice
8. Escape

Maybe Ktulu and Bellz would switch places though.

[black_biff_stadler]

1. Creeping Death
2. The Call of Ktulu
3. Fight Fire With Fire
4. Ride the Lightning
5. Fade to Black
6. For Whom the Bell Tolls
7. Trapped Under Ice
8. Escape

Interestingly enough, if I swapped CD and Ktulu, the numerical order of the top 4 (8,7,1,2 as in 8712) would be exactly twice the number of the bottom 4 (4356.)

[Destiny Of Chaos]

1. The Call of Ktulu
2. Fade to Black
3. Fight Fire with Fire
4. Creeping Death
5. For Whom the Bell Tolls
6. Trapped Under Ice
7. Ride the Lightning
8. Escape

[krands85]

1. Creeping Death
2. Ride the Lightning
3. For Whom the Bell Tolls
4. The Call of Ktulu
5. Fight Fire With Fire
6. Fade to Black
7. Trapped Under Ice
8. Escape
 
4,5 and 6 are a bit tricky to rank, but the rest is pretty set for me.