Rush v. Dirk, Pratt, & Lerxst

[TAC]

That's all fine and good, but it's ultimately why I rarely enjoy these rock autobiographies.  I think because of where his parents came from, that would be quite interesting actually.

I have Amazon money, so I may still get this.

[hefdaddy42]

That's all fine and good, but it's ultimately why I rarely enjoy these rock autobiographies. 

If you aren't interested in the things and circumstances that made the person THAT person, why else would you want to read their autobiography?

[TAC]

That's all fine and good, but it's ultimately why I rarely enjoy these rock autobiographies. 

If you aren't interested in the things and circumstances that made the person THAT person, why else would you want to read their autobiography?

Ultimately to get some insight or some behind the scenes of a band.
I’m fine with background and all that, but to me, it’s always disproportionate to the lifespan of the band. And I get this is one person’s story and not a band biography.

[Stadler]

I suppose my biggest question would be, do we get any more details on the split from Terry Brown.

We always got the feeling that the initial split was fairly acrimonious, but everyone was extremely tight lipped about what actually went down.   Alex and Terry were interviewed together for the 2112 retrospect, but I don’t recall seeing Geddy with Terry in anything recently and I guess hearing that he holds a grudge just makes me even more curious.

That's the kind of thing that will get his book read by me as well.   Not that I need only dirt, but the music business is a cutthroat business, and this "oh this guy was great" and "that guy was great" and "it was great to tour with these guys" and "great to tour with those guys".   That's not life.  Not everyone is lifelong buds, you know?  I don't want people tossed under the bus, but honest recollections are appreciated.   

[hefdaddy42]

That's all fine and good, but it's ultimately why I rarely enjoy these rock autobiographies. 

If you aren't interested in the things and circumstances that made the person THAT person, why else would you want to read their autobiography?

Ultimately to get some insight or some behind the scenes of a band.
I’m fine with background and all that, but to me, it’s always disproportionate to the lifespan of the band. And I get this is one person’s story and not a band biography.

Well, I guess that autobiographies aren't for you.

[ytserush]

Nice! I'm halfway through my unsigned copy (been really savoring it.) and I'm only up to 1977.  Got to cover 40 plus more years in 250 pages. Seems like quite a bit will be skipped over.

That's sadly the case for pretty much every biography I've ever read. They focus a lot on the early years, and then skip over the majority of the discography. Some albums never even get a mention in some of the books.

I'm up to about 1975 now in this one, and that's just half the book left to go.

This is very disappointing to hear. I'll probably skip it then. I can't stand how just about every gook spends half the book on the ery early years and then they gloss over the time period where I was a real time fan.

Zy isn't saying that this is the case with Geddy's book.  He's saying that this seems to be a problem for most biographies.  Or am I wrong, Håkan?

Zy didn't come out and say it, but John did.

Can't really speak to most other biographies, (Joe Jackson's actually stopped when his first record came out.) But it does seem like a lot is going to be skipped or left out.

[ytserush]

My son said the same thing.  "Signed by Glee.  Nice."

He started signing that way after 2015. He seems to be the one in the band that has messed with his signature over the years.

[ytserush]

This is a book though about Geddy.  Of course is would lean on the early years.  This is not really a book about Rush.

Absolutely! But Rush has been a huge part of his life (and likely his identity for many years) so there has to be a significant part of that. (The manuscript was 1200 pages. I would LOVE to get hold of that. Most of what was cut was his other pursuits which I would love to read about too.)

From page 258: "I could go into brain-numbing detail about what mixing records entails but I will spare you (at least my editor will.)"

I don't mind reading about his life before Rush. Learned a few things. And chapter three might be worth the price of the book alone. Yes it's been told before but not in any organized detail in one place before.

 I'm up to Hemispheres now and the drug thing did surprise me a bit given that they largely kept their person lives private in the early years as the music was the focus.

Was hoping to learn a bit more about the Caress of Steel  period but he really must have blocked a lot of detail out of his mind.  But I guess when you're trying to remember a 6 month period from almost 50 years ago when you were probably high on marijuana, you're likely not going to remember much.

Have to figure Neil spoiled me with his writing and Geddy's style is a bit different. Just takes some getting used to.

I never try to have expectations but given Geddy's level of obsessiveness and detail I guess I did. It's a great read regardless.

[ytserush]

With autobiographies like this, I always figure the emphasis is on the stuff you don't already know, and that's how I prefer it.  Rush's rise to fame and their glory years (such as they are) are pretty well documented.  I look forward to finding out more about Geddy, his roots and influences, and in general gaining some insight into him as a person.  Presumably whatever he says about any period will be what he considers worthy of including.

You're going to love it if you haven't finished it already. It's fantastic in those respects.

[ytserush]

That's all fine and good, but it's ultimately why I rarely enjoy these rock autobiographies. 

If you aren't interested in the things and circumstances that made the person THAT person, why else would you want to read their autobiography?

Ultimately to get some insight or some behind the scenes of a band.
I’m fine with background and all that, but to me, it’s always disproportionate to the lifespan of the band. And I get this is one person’s story and not a band biography.

So far there are a few token instances of the "behind the scenes stuff  -- some of which Geddy read on tour. I was hoping to hear more of the Rush lexicon. I'm happy for what Geddy did include.

[TAC]

Yeah, I'm speaking more in general, and not against this book. I haven't ruled out getting it, as I'm sure what we do get behind the scenes would be very interesting.

[DragonAttack]

Add me to the list of those who received a copy for the holidays  

[Lethean]

I just read that the birds in Xanadu are "real" birds - picked up during the recording process and not bird sound effects added in.  This might be out there but if I read it before I don't remember it.  Little details like this are very interesting.  Also he's talking about how awesome (and underrated) Alex is, which he's done before but it's nice to see in the book.

[ytserush]

I just read that the birds in Xanadu are "real" birds - picked up during the recording process and not bird sound effects added in.  This might be out there but if I read it before I don't remember it.  Little details like this are very interesting.  Also he's talking about how awesome (and underrated) Alex is, which he's done before but it's nice to see in the book.

That's really the only reason I still listen to the studio version of Xanadu is for those birds.  Yes, Geddy has talked about Alex like that before but he says it in a slightly different way in the book and lays out exactly what Alex does. I'd forgotten that Geddy grew up with Oscar Peterson's son which I always thought was pretty cool.

[Samsara]

Just starting reading the book last night. Got into Chapter 4, then passed out - although I did just skim Chapter 3, as I'm fully aware of the atrocities of the Holocaust. I didn't feel the need to read more of that. More tonight! I fell asleep as I read Alex's name for the first time. 

[ytserush]

And now more from Alex's narrator:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1AKsGJnmVw




Decided to get off the fence and grab a ticket to Bubba Bash. Weather isn't going to be the best but I'm going for the reasons I went last year The cause and the guests. Hopefully the set will be different than last year. That said, I would love love love to hear Joe Bergamini play Vital Signs again.

[Setlist Scotty]

And now more from Alex's narrator:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1AKsGJnmVw

Awesome interview - thanks for sharing the link John!

[jammindude]

Gotta say that I decided to buy the audiobook of MEL because I was flying to Daytona with a 3 hour layover in Charlotte, and I figured it would pass the time well.  I’m up to chapter 11 and I hope to finish most of it on the trip home.

Couple of things… I’ve been a huge Rush fan since 1982, and I’ve known of the 1812 Overture since I was 8. How did I never notice that Alex’s riff solo at the very tail end of Overture was a rip of famous ending of the 1812?  It’s in a slightly different key, but Geddy acknowledges it was intentional.

The other is the spin this book puts on Rutsey.  All previous things that I had ever read about their split from Rutsey made it sound like it was more for health reasons than anything else. But this book makes it sound like John didn’t like direction the band was going in, he could be very difficult from time to time, and also John was apparently instrumental in getting Geddy kicked out of the band temporarily, and it just doesn’t sound like Geddy ever felt that much of a camaraderie with him in the first place. Ultimately, the split sounded much more like there were other problems brewing and then John’s lack of ability and commitment to touring was the final straw.

Chapter 3 was brutal. A bit of a detour from the overall story, but I’m glad he left it in.

[Podaar]

I didn't find chapter three to be off track at all. These are the people are the family who molded him during his formative years. Their extreme losses and the specific events in their lives have an effect on him throughout his life.

I loved the audiobook. Ged did fantastic, and hearing his chuckle at funny bits, and his voice break at poignant moments really made the experience special.

[jammindude]

I didn't find chapter three to be off track at all. These are the people are the family who molded him during his formative years. Their extreme losses and the specific events in their lives have an effect on him throughout his life.

I loved the audiobook. Ged did fantastic, and hearing his chuckle at funny bits, and his voice break at poignant moments really made the experience special.

Oh I agree. And I didn’t say it was off track, I said it was a detour. Slightly different. I guess it’s more like he took the scenic route?  As a JW (we were also round up and put in the camps) I grew up reading a lot of these types of stories, but it’s true that Geddy’s reading made it so impactful.

[Orbert]

I’ve been a huge Rush fan since 1982, and I’ve known of the 1812 Overture since I was 8. How did I never notice that Alex’s riff solo at the very tail end of Overture was a rip of famous ending of the 1812?  It’s in a slightly different key, but Geddy acknowledges it was intentional.

This suprises me.  I guess it's like the "jingle bells" that Jordan threw into whatever DT jam that was (I don't even remember now) that a lot of people said they never noticed, and some still deny.  It seemed really obvious to me.  Sure the key is different and the harmonics worked differently, but the rhythm and basic tonality was the same.  The 1812 was actually the same tonality, so even more obviously intentional.  Also, I would call it homage, not rip, but it's a fine line.

[HOF]

Yeah, I thought the 1812 Overture reference was a well-known thing, with the 2112 Overture coming 300 years later.

I am listening to 2112 now for the first time in a long time. My thoughts on the song 2112 haven't really changed over the years. Beyond about Temple of Syrinx it is pretty forgettable melodically, musically, and lyrically. But I am finding myself really enjoying the second half of the album, including Twilight Zone and Lessons, which I never thought much of before.

[Nick]

Bubba Bash tonight in Philly!

[coz]

I didn't find chapter three to be off track at all. These are the people are the family who molded him during his formative years. Their extreme losses and the specific events in their lives have an effect on him throughout his life.

I loved the audiobook. Ged did fantastic, and hearing his chuckle at funny bits, and his voice break at poignant moments really made the experience special.

Reading the physical book along with Geddy (Audiobook is available on spotify.  Convenient!)  made it all extra special for me as well.  First audiobook I've listened to all the way through.  Spoiled me though.  Tried the NP one that's also on spotify, narrated by someone else.  It just wasn't the same.  I couldn't make it through the prologue!

I envy you today, Nick.  Wish I could be there. 

[Setlist Scotty]

Couple of things… I’ve been a huge Rush fan since 1982, and I’ve known of the 1812 Overture since I was 8. How did I never notice that Alex’s riff solo at the very tail end of Overture was a rip of famous ending of the 1812?  It’s in a slightly different key, but Geddy acknowledges it was intentional.

The other is the spin this book puts on Rutsey.  All previous things that I had ever read about their split from Rutsey made it sound like it was more for health reasons than anything else. But this book makes it sound like John didn’t like direction the band was going in, he could be very difficult from time to time, and also John was apparently instrumental in getting Geddy kicked out of the band temporarily, and it just doesn’t sound like Geddy ever felt that much of a camaraderie with him in the first place. Ultimately, the split sounded much more like there were other problems brewing and then John’s lack of ability and commitment to touring was the final straw.

Funny that you ever knew about the 1812 Overture/2112 Overture connection. I've known about that for decades!

As for Rutsey, I knew that part of the reason why he left the band was because of health issues, but I was *always* under the impression that it was equally as much about him being more into straight-forward rock music like Bad Company rather than the proggy stuff that Al and Ged were getting into. Don't remember where I learned that, although I've known that for a long time. Did you ever read the "Visions" Rush biography from 1988? That was the first Rush bio I ever read and I know there's a lot of early history mentioned in that book although there may be a few questionable details included. Highly recommended if you can get your hands on it although it's loooooonnnnnng out of print.

[Stadler]

So how's this for obtuse?  I am aware of the 1812 Overture by Tchaikovsky.   I have a great recording of it.  I have heard Cozy Powell's interpolation of it into his various drum solos over the years.   I have noticed the little figure that Alex plays at the end of the 2112 Overture and knew where it came from...  BUT I NEVER PUT TWO AND TWO TOGETHER.  1812, 2112, duh!! 

[coz]

 

[pg1067]

The other is the spin this book puts on Rutsey.  All previous things that I had ever read about their split from Rutsey made it sound like it was more for health reasons than anything else. But this book makes it sound like John didn’t like direction the band was going in, he could be very difficult from time to time, and also John was apparently instrumental in getting Geddy kicked out of the band temporarily, and it just doesn’t sound like Geddy ever felt that much of a camaraderie with him in the first place. Ultimately, the split sounded much more like there were other problems brewing and then John’s lack of ability and commitment to touring was the final straw.

I always got the sense that Alex was tight with Rutsey, but I never got that sense about Geddy.  I Alex being asked about Rutsey sometime in the '90s, and Alex said that Rutsey was really into bodybuilding and that Alex would see him at the gym now and then.  I've also read stuff (I couldn't point to anything specific) about Geddy and Alex wanting to pursue more complicated music and Rutsy not wanting to go there with them.  I had the sense that it was as much of a factor as Rutsey's health issues.  Basically what Scotty said.

I’ve been a huge Rush fan since 1982, and I’ve known of the 1812 Overture since I was 8. How did I never notice that Alex’s riff solo at the very tail end of Overture was a rip of famous ending of the 1812?  It’s in a slightly different key, but Geddy acknowledges it was intentional.

This suprises me.  I guess it's like the "jingle bells" that Jordan threw into whatever DT jam that was (I don't even remember now) that a lot of people said they never noticed, and some still deny.  It seemed really obvious to me.  Sure the key is different and the harmonics worked differently, but the rhythm and basic tonality was the same.  The 1812 was actually the same tonality, so even more obviously intentional.  Also, I would call it homage, not rip, but it's a fine line.

People deny the Jingle Bells thing in Octavarium?  How can that be?  The cartoon they played during the concert (and which is on score) has the Jordan character morph into Santa Claus during that part, and there's snow falling around him and JP.  I always knew the 2112 Overture riff was a rip from some classical piece, but I'm not sure I specifically knew it was the 1812 Overture until sometime in the last 10-15 years.

[Orbert]

It was a discussion here on DTF, but I don't remember who was involved.  They said they'd never noticed the "Jingle Bells" riff, didn't know it was a thing, and didn't really hear it even when it was pointed out.  Someone mentioned the Santa morph on the video when DT played that part live, but they kept saying they just didn't hear "Jingle Bells" in any way, shape, or form.  Because the tonality wasn't the same, I guess.

Also, I'm like Stadler on the Overture riff.  I thought it was cool that Alex threw a lick from The 1812 Overture into a piece called Overture, but never noticed that 1812 and 2112 are exactly 300 years apart.  I'm a numbers guy; I shouldn't noticed.

[HOF]

So in La Villa Strangiato there is kind of a swing section in the middle that I always thought was a reference to something else, but I don’t know if it is a direct quote or just sort of something with a similar vibe. Anyone know what I’m talking about?

LOL, I asked my wife if it sounded familiar to her, and she said it sounded like something from the movie Aladdin. Then I found that Daily Doug listened to it and said the same thing (starting around 8:30):

https://youtu.be/VDRAj5jTmzM?si=QJxTdhCJO7wGIQiX

This song (there’s no way that’s what I was thinking of though. Saw that movie maybe once):

https://youtu.be/-EwumVKS2KA?si=XOz3HCJ_xI6aZC21

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

So in La Villa Strangiato there is kind of a swing section in the middle that I always thought was a reference to something else, but I don’t know if it is a direct quote or just sort of something with a similar vibe. Anyone know what I’m talking about?

LOL, I asked my wife if it sounded familiar to her, and she said it sounded like something from the movie Aladdin. Then I found that Daily Doug listened to it and said the same thing (starting around 8:30):

https://youtu.be/VDRAj5jTmzM?si=QJxTdhCJO7wGIQiX

This song (there’s no way that’s what I was thinking of though. Saw that movie maybe once):

https://youtu.be/-EwumVKS2KA?si=XOz3HCJ_xI6aZC21

If I remember correctly, and I'm probably not, I think either Alex or Neil at one time in a interview said they took some inspiration from this song for some of the parts. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2S1I_ien6A

[HOF]

So in La Villa Strangiato there is kind of a swing section in the middle that I always thought was a reference to something else, but I don’t know if it is a direct quote or just sort of something with a similar vibe. Anyone know what I’m talking about?

LOL, I asked my wife if it sounded familiar to her, and she said it sounded like something from the movie Aladdin. Then I found that Daily Doug listened to it and said the same thing (starting around 8:30):

https://youtu.be/VDRAj5jTmzM?si=QJxTdhCJO7wGIQiX

This song (there’s no way that’s what I was thinking of though. Saw that movie maybe once):

https://youtu.be/-EwumVKS2KA?si=XOz3HCJ_xI6aZC21

If I remember correctly, and I'm probably not, I think either Alex or Neil at one time in a interview said they took some inspiration from this song for some of the parts. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2S1I_ien6A

Yeah, that’s definitely the style/vibe I’m thinking of (especially in the drums). Certainly not a direct quote but could see it as the inspiration.

[HOF]

Oh, it looks like the actual song is “Powerhouse” by Raymond Scott, and that Rush actually may have paid him later for the use of it.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=1m23s&v=qaC0vNLdLvY&feature=youtu.be

No doubt I probably first heard it on Looney Tunes (around 1:00):

https://youtu.be/r3FLN0iQ9SQ?si=rVG3MlkC_gET4u1M

[Orbert]

Whoa, that is definitely it!

[HOF]

Here is a nice mashup:

https://youtube.com/shorts/u2Lgyuys7PU?si=zWbueZV7AhPrMG1S

Don’t know why PowerWindows wasn’t my first stop.

"Powerhouse" by Raymond Scott, 1937
This song inspired the "Monsters!" section of the song "La Villa Strangiato". Carl Stalling, Warner Brothers music director, used much of "Powerhouse" in his Warner Brothers cartoon scores in the 40's and 50's. Although the music wasn't originally written for cartoons, publishing rights for a limited catalog of Raymond Scott's titles were sold to Warner Brothers in 1943. Not only was "Powerhouse" used in the old "Merrie Melodies" and "Looney Tunes" cartoons, it has been sampled more recently by the bands "Devo" and "They Might Be Giants"; recent cartoons including "The Simpsons", "Ren & Stimpy", "Duckman", "Batfink" and "Animaniacs", the Cartoon Network's theme song, and throughout the Disney film "Honey, I Shrunk the Kids!" (without crediting Scott - Disney was threatened with a lawsuit and the matter was settled out of court). Rush didn't give credit to Scott for their use of "Powerhouse" either. By the time Raymond Scott's publisher notified the band's management of the infringement, the statute of limitations had expired on the challenge. But Rush's management, out of deference to Mr. and Mrs. Scott (Raymond was still alive at that point), offered a one-time "penance" payment, feeling it was the ethical thing to do. All involved were happy with the resolution, and Rush has no further financial obligations. Under the settlement, they were not required to accord Raymond Scott partial songwriting credit on the piece. For more information visit RaymondScott.com.

http://www.2112.net/powerwindows/rushinspirations.html