Rush v. Dirk, Pratt, & Lerxst

[Orbert]

I'll guess it could never be bricjwalled because it wasn't recorded at the levels as musuc in the 2000's.

I don't know how all that stuff works, but if they can do something to the sound to "beef it up", make it sound fuller, richer, something like that, then it seems possible to overdo it.  Instead of just making things sound richer and fuller, they push everything to 11 and wreck it.  That really does seem to be the trend as far as I can tell.

Hey, if someone wants to take a shot at it, that's fine.  I'll check out the results and hear for myself.  I guess I just don't have much faith that they'll do it right.  And by "right" I mean in a way that I like.  I've always got the original CD if they botch the remaster/remix.

[HOF]

I'll guess it could never be bricjwalled because it wasn't recorded at the levels as musuc in the 2000's.

I don't know how all that stuff works, but if they can do something to the sound to "beef it up", make it sound fuller, richer, something like that, then it seems possible to overdo it.  Instead of just making things sound richer and fuller, they push everything to 11 and wreck it.  That really does seem to be the trend as far as I can tell.

Hey, if someone wants to take a shot at it, that's fine.  I'll check out the results and hear for myself.  I guess I just don't have much faith that they'll do it right.  And by "right" I mean in a way that I like.  I've always got the original CD if they botch the remaster/remix.

It definitely could be brick walled if all they compress the crap out of the original audio to make it sound louder. But I think they could definitely enhance the sound without brickwalling it (but maybe not if the same people involved in the last several Rush albums do it. Just need to get the right person to mix it).

[pg1067]

I'll guess it could never be bricjwalled because it wasn't recorded at the levels as musuc in the 2000's.

I don't know how all that stuff works, but if they can do something to the sound to "beef it up", make it sound fuller, richer, something like that, then it seems possible to overdo it.  Instead of just making things sound richer and fuller, they push everything to 11 and wreck it.  That really does seem to be the trend as far as I can tell.

Hey, if someone wants to take a shot at it, that's fine.  I'll check out the results and hear for myself.  I guess I just don't have much faith that they'll do it right.  And by "right" I mean in a way that I like.  I've always got the original CD if they botch the remaster/remix.

I was actually thinking about this general concept over the weekend.  I listened to a bunch of different versions of Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition (including a couple of ELP's), which is pretty much my favorite piece of classical music.  When it got to a couple of the particularly soft sections, I got to thinking what it would be like if classical recordings got uber compressed and brickwalled.  Of course, it would sound awful.  As to Presto, I love how it sounds.  For my money, it's one of the better sounding non-Broon Rush albums, and the existence of breathing room is one reason why.

P.S. for anyone who cares, this was inspired by Doug Helvering doing a reaction video to ELP's "Pirates," which is my favorite ELP song.

[jammindude]

The actual volume levels on Presto are lovely! I wish more CDs were mixed at about that level. But I also agree with the sentiment that you almost can’t even hear the drums or the bass. They just sound very background. It seriously could’ve been beefed up a bit.

[Kram]

I'll guess it could never be bricjwalled because it wasn't recorded at the levels as musuc in the 2000's.

I don't know how all that stuff works, but if they can do something to the sound to "beef it up", make it sound fuller, richer, something like that, then it seems possible to overdo it.  Instead of just making things sound richer and fuller, they push everything to 11 and wreck it.  That really does seem to be the trend as far as I can tell.

Hey, if someone wants to take a shot at it, that's fine.  I'll check out the results and hear for myself.  I guess I just don't have much faith that they'll do it right.  And by "right" I mean in a way that I like.  I've always got the original CD if they botch the remaster/remix.

Let Steven Wilson have a crack at it.  I have faith in him, he'll make it sound better lol

[TAC]

Presto has a real charm to it. It's one of the few Rush albums made after Signals that I can say that about. Probably the only one.

[HOF]

The actual volume levels on Presto are lovely! I wish more CDs were mixed at about that level. But I also agree with the sentiment that you almost can’t even hear the drums or the bass. They just sound very background. It seriously could’ve been beefed up a bit.

Yeah, it’s not the volume level that is the issue. It is the lack of any low end in the drums, bass, or guitars. I would think that can be adjusted without compromising the overall dynamic range of the album. Glasser seemed to find a way at least.

[Stadler]

I'll guess it could never be bricjwalled because it wasn't recorded at the levels as musuc in the 2000's.

I don't know how all that stuff works, but if they can do something to the sound to "beef it up", make it sound fuller, richer, something like that, then it seems possible to overdo it.  Instead of just making things sound richer and fuller, they push everything to 11 and wreck it.  That really does seem to be the trend as far as I can tell.

Hey, if someone wants to take a shot at it, that's fine.  I'll check out the results and hear for myself.  I guess I just don't have much faith that they'll do it right.  And by "right" I mean in a way that I like.  I've always got the original CD if they botch the remaster/remix.

I was actually thinking about this general concept over the weekend.  I listened to a bunch of different versions of Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition (including a couple of ELP's), which is pretty much my favorite piece of classical music.  When it got to a couple of the particularly soft sections, I got to thinking what it would be like if classical recordings got uber compressed and brickwalled.  Of course, it would sound awful.  As to Presto, I love how it sounds.  For my money, it's one of the better sounding non-Broon Rush albums, and the existence of breathing room is one reason why.

P.S. for anyone who cares, this was inspired by Doug Helvering doing a reaction video to ELP's "Pirates," which is my favorite ELP song.

Probably mine too.  A highlight of my concert-goings-on was seeing ELP in New Haven in '93 and they played that.  I was third row, and for some reason I had a perfect sight line to Carl Palmer.  At one point, he pointed stick at me and winked.

[pg1067]

I'll guess it could never be bricjwalled because it wasn't recorded at the levels as musuc in the 2000's.

I don't know how all that stuff works, but if they can do something to the sound to "beef it up", make it sound fuller, richer, something like that, then it seems possible to overdo it.  Instead of just making things sound richer and fuller, they push everything to 11 and wreck it.  That really does seem to be the trend as far as I can tell.

Hey, if someone wants to take a shot at it, that's fine.  I'll check out the results and hear for myself.  I guess I just don't have much faith that they'll do it right.  And by "right" I mean in a way that I like.  I've always got the original CD if they botch the remaster/remix.

I was actually thinking about this general concept over the weekend.  I listened to a bunch of different versions of Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition (including a couple of ELP's), which is pretty much my favorite piece of classical music.  When it got to a couple of the particularly soft sections, I got to thinking what it would be like if classical recordings got uber compressed and brickwalled.  Of course, it would sound awful.  As to Presto, I love how it sounds.  For my money, it's one of the better sounding non-Broon Rush albums, and the existence of breathing room is one reason why.

P.S. for anyone who cares, this was inspired by Doug Helvering doing a reaction video to ELP's "Pirates," which is my favorite ELP song.

Probably mine too.  A highlight of my concert-goings-on was seeing ELP in New Haven in '93 and they played that.  I was third row, and for some reason I had a perfect sight line to Carl Palmer.  At one point, he pointed stick at me and winked.

I saw ELP in August 1992.  Looking at setlist.fm, they played just about anything I could hope for, including Pirates and Pictures.  And I have virtually no recollection of the show.  About the only thing I remember is getting pulled over right after leaving the show for making an illegal u-turn and being scared shitless because I was close to, if not over, the legal limit.  I remember being shocked that the cop just let me go with a warning and didn't even breathalyze me.  My moment like you described with Palmer was with Rik Emmett at a 1987 Triumph concert.

[Trav86]

Presto has a real charm to it. It's one of the few Rush albums made after Signals that I can say that about. Probably the only one.

Presto is that album that I always forget how good it is until I go back to it.

[nick_z]

I always enjoy Presto, and I do agree with Tim that it has a certain charm...however, it's not a Rush album that manages to cross into "greatness" in my book...

[KevShmev]

Presto isn't one of my favorites, but I enjoy it a lot.  I actually think the thin sound is part of its charm.  I think of it as Rush's easy listening album.

[TAC]

Presto isn't one of my favorites, but I enjoy it a lot.  I actually think the thin sound is part of its charm. I think of it as Rush's easy listening album.

Yes! I've always referred to it as Adult Contemporary Rush.

[HOF]

I love the overall atmosphere on Presto. Part of that is the “thinness,” part of that is just the instrumentation, and part of it is the somewhat peculiar songwriting. It’s still one of my favorite Rush albums despite always wishing the sound were just a bit fuller.

[Architeuthis]

While we're on this topic,  this is the best footage I've ever seen from the Presto tour.  For some reason, the song order got changed and most of the Presto songs are after the 33 minute mark.   Alex kind of botches Superconductor.. 
  https://youtu.be/E3747b6c5nQ

I meant to ask if anyone remembers Neils drum kit in this video. If I remember right his kit was dark blue unlike his white Ludwig from the HYF tour.

[RodrigoAltaf]

I like Presto now, but as a kid whose sonic diet included Slayer, Metallica and Anthrax and wanted to experience different bands, it was not the best album to start with. In 1990 I was told Rush was THE BAND I needed to try, and bought Presto. I liked Show Don't Tell and nothing else. Shortly after I exchanged the album for something else and completely discarded the band until 1995.

[Zydar]

The actual volume levels on Presto are lovely! I wish more CDs were mixed at about that level. But I also agree with the sentiment that you almost can’t even hear the drums or the bass. They just sound very background. It seriously could’ve been beefed up a bit.

Yeah, it’s not the volume level that is the issue. It is the lack of any low end in the drums, bass, or guitars. I would think that can be adjusted without compromising the overall dynamic range of the album. Glasser seemed to find a way at least.

His version is my go-to these days whenever I want to listen to Presto.

[King Postwhore]

Presto was my 4th tour that I saw Rush. It was the last tour I saw without my wife. We started dating in 1991.

I saw the tour twice. I loved the bunnies on the stage. Presto was a different album for them but I loved it. I remember reading that Hand Over Fist was originally going to be an instrumental. 

[KevShmev]

I didn't see the Presto tour (Roll the Bones was my first), but I did enjoy them killing the bunnies on stage on the Counterparts tour. 

[The Letter M]

Presto was my 4th tour that I saw Rush. It was the last tour I saw without my wife. We started dating in 1991.

I saw the tour twice. I loved the bunnies on the stage. Presto was a different album for them but I loved it. I remember reading that Hand Over Fist was originally going to be an instrumental.

I've probably read that before too, and it's probably why the band ended up putting an instrumental on their next album (and the two that followed funnily enough).

-Marc.

[King Postwhore]

The other reason was that it could give Geedy's locals a break. They could add an extra instrumental live for that reason. 

[romdrums]

Presto was the first Rush album I had purchased, and so it's always held a special place for me.  I had known of Rush prior to that, having seen A Show of Hands and seeing ads and interviews of NP in Modern Drummer Magazine.  I love the overall vibe of the record, though I did end up going back later and doing my own remaster of it where I cut out some of the mid-range stuff, boosted the overall level, and added some low end to beef it up a bit.  To me it turned out pretty good, but I've also never shared it with anyone, so I don't know.  Show Don't Tell is one of my son's favorite songs, mostly due to the fact that any time he tells me he's done something and I've doubted him, I'll usually say, "hey bud, what Rush song do you think I'm going to mention right now?" to which he will respond while rolling his eyes, "Show me don't tell me." 

[pg1067]

Presto isn't one of my favorites, but I enjoy it a lot.  I actually think the thin sound is part of its charm. I think of it as Rush's easy listening album.

Yes! I've always referred to it as Adult Contemporary Rush.

Presto through Counterparts (and, arguably, T4E) fits that description.

I like Presto now, but as a kid whose sonic diet included Slayer, Metallica and Anthrax and wanted to experience different bands, it was not the best album to start with. In 1990 I was told Rush was THE BAND I needed to try, and bought Presto. I liked Show Don't Tell and nothing else. Shortly after I exchanged the album for something else and completely discarded the band until 1995.

After three increasingly disappointing albums, Presto was a breath of fresh air for me and my friends.  It certainly didn't harken back to pre-synth era Rush, but it was such a massive improvement.

Presto was my 4th tour that I saw Rush. It was the last tour I saw without my wife. We started dating in 1991.

I saw the tour twice. I loved the bunnies on the stage. Presto was a different album for them but I loved it. I remember reading that Hand Over Fist was originally going to be an instrumental something that should have been excised from the album and burned. 

FTFM

Also my fourth Rush tour and loved the rabbits.

[Kram]

Presto isn't one of my favorites, but I enjoy it a lot.  I actually think the thin sound is part of its charm. I think of it as Rush's easy listening album.

Yes! I've always referred to it as Adult Contemporary Rush.

Presto through Counterparts (and, arguably, T4E) fits that description.

I like Presto now, but as a kid whose sonic diet included Slayer, Metallica and Anthrax and wanted to experience different bands, it was not the best album to start with. In 1990 I was told Rush was THE BAND I needed to try, and bought Presto. I liked Show Don't Tell and nothing else. Shortly after I exchanged the album for something else and completely discarded the band until 1995.

After three increasingly disappointing albums, Presto was a breath of fresh air for me and my friends.  It certainly didn't harken back to pre-synth era Rush, but it was such a massive improvement.

Presto was my 4th tour that I saw Rush. It was the last tour I saw without my wife. We started dating in 1991.

I saw the tour twice. I loved the bunnies on the stage. Presto was a different album for them but I loved it. I remember reading that Hand Over Fist was originally going to be an instrumental something that should have been excised from the album and burned. 

FTFM

Also my fourth Rush tour and loved the rabbits.

I'd say I'd agree with RTB, and possibly even TFE fitting that description - but I'd counter with (see what I did there), that Counterparts is a heavier album and not "adult contemporary" Rush.

[HOF]

Test for Echo is pretty heavy in places. It’s more rocky than most of the 80s albums for sure.

[Kram]

Test for Echo is pretty heavy in places. It’s more rocky than most of the 80s albums for sure.

Yeah it's heavier than Presto and RTB for sure - not as heavy as Counterparts though..

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

Test for Echo is pretty heavy in places. It’s more rocky than most of the 80s albums for sure.

Yeah it's heavier than Presto and RTB for sure - not as heavy as Counterparts though..

Yeah, Counterparts for the most part is quite heavy. T4E was a bit more varied, but still fairly heavy in parts.

[jammindude]

I think that’s another reason I always preferred TFE over CP.  CP always came across to me as Rush “trying too hard” to remain relevant during the grunge explosion.

Once they had found their heavy side again, they just settled into being themselves with their re-established heaviness.

[King Postwhore]

I find Counterparts more organic than T4E.  I remember reading interviews that they wondered why there songs sounded much more powerful live from Presto and RTB.  They charged Peter Collins to make the album sound live. Raw. More powerful, like their live sound.

[HOF]

I find Counterparts more organic than T4E.  I remember reading interviews that they wondered why there songs sounded much more powerful live from Presto and RTB.  They charged Peter Collins to make the album sound live. Raw. More powerful, like their live sound.

That’s interesting. Not saying it’s not true (Counterparts definitely has more of powerful feel than it’s predecessors), but I think of Counterparts as having a very polished studio sound and T4E as having a bit more of a raw sound.

[King Postwhore]

Just the opposite by the guys in the band. Alex got into agreements with the engineer,  Kevin Shirley (sound familiar?) about not using pedals and adding the effects later.

T4E, they were going with a more modern sound with the dry vocals that fit in that mid to late 90's era. 

[Architeuthis]

  CP always came across to me as Rush “trying too hard” to remain relevant during the grunge explosion.

I dunno, the shredding solo in CTTC was a in your face "stick it to the man" moment against the grunge anti guitar solo establishment in the 90's..   one of my all time favorite Alex solos   

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

  CP always came across to me as Rush “trying too hard” to remain relevant during the grunge explosion.

I dunno, the shredding solo in CTTC was a in your face "stick it to the man" moment against the grunge anti guitar solo establishment in the 90's..   one of my all time favorite Alex solos   

Yeah, I've never understood the "Rush was trying to be Grunge" comments on Counterparts. The only song that sounds even remotely like a Grunge band could have done something similar is Stick it Out. Which is also incidentally the worst song on the album...

[KevShmev]

Agreed. And even the guitar lick in Stick It Out is more of a callback to the very early Rush years than something a grunge band would have done. 

[nick_z]

100% agree, Puppies and Kev.

CP, in retrospect (and I’m saying this because that was literally the first Rush album I heard, right when it came out, so at the time I wouldn’t have had any perspective on Rush overall discog) was a deliberate return to a more guitar-driven sound, but it doesn’t strike me as a clear attempt to be relevant to the “grunge” crowd…it sound very Rush to me, all around