Rush v. Dirk, Pratt, & Lerxst

[TAC]

King is about quantity where we are about quality.

[King Postwhore]

King is about quantity where we are about quality.

My beer taste > your beer taste.  Also....

[TAC]

King is about quantity where we are about quality.

My beer taste > your beer taste.  Also....

I don't drink!

[King Postwhore]

So if understand the history correctly - Tim and pg are on the wrong side of this, and King knows what's right?   

Just like my signature below. Lol

[nick_z]

So if understand the history correctly - Tim and pg are on the wrong side of this, and King knows what's right?   

Just like my signature below. Lol

 

[KevShmev]

King is about quantity where we are about quality.

, says the guy who likes KISS.

[TAC]

King is about quantity where we are about quality.

, says the guy who likes KISS.

Go back to the bubblegum thread.

[Nick]

King is shifting his focus to quality as his quantity continues a sharp decline.

[TAC]

King is shifting his focus to quality and his quantity continues a sharp decline.

Well, we can all get behind that.

[King Postwhore]

Nick means brain cells.

[pg1067]

I have no problem with y'all thinking a bottom 4 Rush album is great.

[pg1067]

OK...does anyone have any sort of primary source for the actual release date of Permanent Waves?

I had long heard that it was released on new year's day 1980, but that seems absurd.  Plenty of random sites still list 1/1/1980 as the release date.  Wikipedia lists the release date as 1/18/1980 (a Friday) and cites an article in the January 12, 1980 issue of Music Week, which appears to have been a British music magazine.  That article (on p. 2 of this pdf - chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://worldradiohistory.com/UK/Music-Week/1980/Music-Week-1980-01-12.pdf ) stated, "PHONOGRAM IS planning a heavy new advertising campaign for leading heavy metal group Rush who have a new album released on January 18 called Permanent Waves. . . .  [P] The LP will be simultaneously released worldwide. . . ."  However, I know that albums were sometimes released on different dates in the U.S./Canada and England.

Anyone?

[Stadler]

OK...does anyone have any sort of primary source for the actual release date of Permanent Waves?

I had long heard that it was released on new year's day 1980, but that seems absurd.  Plenty of random sites still list 1/1/1980 as the release date.  Wikipedia lists the release date as 1/18/1980 (a Friday) and cites an article in the January 12, 1980 issue of Music Week, which appears to have been a British music magazine.  That article (on p. 2 of this pdf - chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://worldradiohistory.com/UK/Music-Week/1980/Music-Week-1980-01-12.pdf ) stated, "PHONOGRAM IS planning a heavy new advertising campaign for leading heavy metal group Rush who have a new album released on January 18 called Permanent Waves. . . .  [P] The LP will be simultaneously released worldwide. . . ."  However, I know that albums were sometimes released on different dates in the U.S./Canada and England.

Anyone?

For the longest time - though my memory is not strong enough to tell you when that started and when that stopped, except that it was in the '80s - major releases were on Tuesday.  For what that's worth.  In January of 1980, the Tuesdays were 1, 8, 15, 22, and 29.

[King Postwhore]

Back in 1980, in America, the release date was a Tuesday so I'll assume that it was 1-1-80. 

[HOF]

Release day was Tuesday for as long as I can remember up until maybe the last 10-15 years. I was not alive for the release of Permanent Waves, however. 

[pg1067]

I definitely remember Tuesday release days.  By the time my friend and I had given up our afternoon paper route, we would routinely stop a local record store on our way home from school on Tuesday afternoons to see what was new.

It seems weird to me to release a new album on new year's day (when most record stores were closed).  Maybe there was some novelty to it.  IDK.

[HOF]

2112.net/PowerWindows has the release date as 1/14/80 FWIW. I think I’d trust them.

http://www.2112.net/powerwindows/permanentwaves.html

Rush.com also says 1/14/80:

https://www.rush.com/albums/permanent-waves/

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

2112.net/PowerWindows has the release date as 1/14/80 FWIW. I think I’d trust them.

http://www.2112.net/powerwindows/permanentwaves.html

Rush.com also says 1/14/80:

https://www.rush.com/albums/permanent-waves/

And RYM also shows 1/14/80.

[pg1067]

2112.net/PowerWindows has the release date as 1/14/80 FWIW. I think I’d trust them.

http://www.2112.net/powerwindows/permanentwaves.html

Rush.com also says 1/14/80:

https://www.rush.com/albums/permanent-waves/

Yeah...the band itself is certainly a reliable source, and 2112.net has proven to be same over the years.  On the other hand, 1/14/80 was a Monday....

I have no idea what "RYM" is.

[HOF]

2112.net/PowerWindows has the release date as 1/14/80 FWIW. I think I’d trust them.

http://www.2112.net/powerwindows/permanentwaves.html

Rush.com also says 1/14/80:

https://www.rush.com/albums/permanent-waves/

Yeah...the band itself is certainly a reliable source, and 2112.net has proven to be same over the years.  On the other hand, 1/14/80 was a Monday....

I have no idea what "RYM" is.

So regarding the Tuesday being universal release day, I found this, which suggests it didn't become Tuesday in the US until 1989, and even then it was Monday in Canada. Looks like it switched to Friday in 2015 (more recently than I realized).

https://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2015/07/10/421483599/goodbye-music-tuesday-starting-today-albums-come-out-on-friday

For more than 25 years, Tuesday has been the standard release day for new albums in America — a tradition Keith Caulfield, co-director of charts at Billboard, says had a lot to do with shipping in the pre-digital era.

"One particular retailer might get that album on, say, Monday morning before they open," Caulfield says. "And they can have it on their shelf. Boom, great! So, if you walk in and you want Michael Jackson's new Bad album, they will have it."

"However," he continues, "a store a couple blocks down the road may have not got their shipment." That store couldn't do anything but wait until it showed up.

In 1989, the recording industry settled on Tuesday as the day every retailer could start selling new releases at the same time — but that was just in the U.S. Albums came out on Mondays in the U.K. and Canada, Fridays in Australia and Germany. Recently, the industry decided it needed a global standard.

[King Postwhore]

I've also seen 1/18/1980 as the release date as well. 

[pg1067]

In 1989, the recording industry settled on Tuesday as the day every retailer could start selling new releases at the same time — but that was just in the U.S. Albums came out on Mondays in the U.K. and Canada, Fridays in Australia and Germany. Recently, the industry decided it needed a global standard.[/i]

I'm positive the Tuesday thing was a thing before 1989, but maybe it had standardized on a regional basis before then.  Canada using Mondays explains the 1/14/1980 release date.

[HOF]

In 1989, the recording industry settled on Tuesday as the day every retailer could start selling new releases at the same time — but that was just in the U.S. Albums came out on Mondays in the U.K. and Canada, Fridays in Australia and Germany. Recently, the industry decided it needed a global standard.[/i]

I'm positive the Tuesday thing was a thing before 1989, but maybe it had standardized on a regional basis before then.  Canada using Mondays explains the 1/14/1980 release date.

I wouldn't be surprised if most albums were released on Tuesdays as some sort of common practice (maybe to allow for an extra day for late deliveries on Monday or something) that wasn't standardized until 1989.

Another NPR article from 2010 that posits Tuesday was the de facto date both due to issues with weekend delivery/stocking and trying to game the Billboard system.

https://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2010/09/08/129725205/why-albums-are-released-on-tuesdays

[Stadler]

In 1989, the recording industry settled on Tuesday as the day every retailer could start selling new releases at the same time — but that was just in the U.S. Albums came out on Mondays in the U.K. and Canada, Fridays in Australia and Germany. Recently, the industry decided it needed a global standard.[/i]

I'm positive the Tuesday thing was a thing before 1989, but maybe it had standardized on a regional basis before then.  Canada using Mondays explains the 1/14/1980 release date.

It was WELL before 1989, because in '89 I was a senior in college, and I was referring to the times I would go down to Graf Wadman Records in the mall in HIGH SCHOOL to get the latest releases.  I started buying records in earnest in 1982.

[The Letter M]

Just popping in to say how much more I appreciate and enjoy Caress Of Steel now than when I first discovered Rush over 20 years ago. Every song just hits me harder now, and it's easily my favorite of their first three albums. The more I've been listening to COS, the more I think I might like it over 2112 as a whole, whose second side is a bit hit-or-miss for me.

-Marc.

[TAC]

In 1989, the recording industry settled on Tuesday as the day every retailer could start selling new releases at the same time — but that was just in the U.S. Albums came out on Mondays in the U.K. and Canada, Fridays in Australia and Germany. Recently, the industry decided it needed a global standard.[/i]

I'm positive the Tuesday thing was a thing before 1989, but maybe it had standardized on a regional basis before then.  Canada using Mondays explains the 1/14/1980 release date.

It was WELL before 1989, because in '89 I was a senior in college, and I was referring to the times I would go down to Graf Wadman Records in the mall in HIGH SCHOOL to get the latest releases.  I started buying records in earnest in 1982.

Yup. It was always Tuesdays growing up.

[HOF]

In 1989, the recording industry settled on Tuesday as the day every retailer could start selling new releases at the same time — but that was just in the U.S. Albums came out on Mondays in the U.K. and Canada, Fridays in Australia and Germany. Recently, the industry decided it needed a global standard.[/i]

I'm positive the Tuesday thing was a thing before 1989, but maybe it had standardized on a regional basis before then.  Canada using Mondays explains the 1/14/1980 release date.

It was WELL before 1989, because in '89 I was a senior in college, and I was referring to the times I would go down to Graf Wadman Records in the mall in HIGH SCHOOL to get the latest releases.  I started buying records in earnest in 1982.

Yup. It was always Tuesdays growing up.

Yeah, it sounds like it was Tuesdays informally before 1989, but not standardized until 1989. So most albums were probably released on Tuesdays for logistical/strategic purposes, but some stores might get their stock on different days and release early before it was standardized.

Another NPR article from 2010 that posits Tuesday was the de facto date both due to issues with weekend delivery/stocking and trying to game the Billboard system.

https://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2010/09/08/129725205/why-albums-are-released-on-tuesdays

[pg1067]

Just popping in to say how much more I appreciate and enjoy Caress Of Steel now than when I first discovered Rush over 20 years ago. Every song just hits me harder now, and it's easily my favorite of their first three albums. The more I've been listening to COS, the more I think I might like it over 2112 as a whole, whose second side is a bit hit-or-miss for me.

It's a tough call for me.  In the recent Rush countdown, I ranked 2112 at #19 and The Fountain at #30.  There aren't any throwaway sections in 2112, but The Fountain has Didacts and Panacea, and In the Valley and The Fountain are really similar.  Overall...

19. 2112
27. The Necromancer
30. The Fountain of Lamneth
37. Bastille Day
50. A Passage to Bangkok
55. Lakeside Park (although the ATWAS version is MUCH better than the studio version)
65. The Twilight Zone
66. Something for Nothing
76. Tears
104. Lessons
134. I Think I'm Going Bald

Not entirely sure how that shakes out in terms of ranking them against each other, but I think it's really close, and the gap isn't anywhere near as big as it was back in the day.

[HOF]

I came to Caress of Steel very late (soon after Neil’s passing). I wasn’t enthusiastic about their other 70s albums and it had a poor reputation so it just wasn’t a priority. But I think it’s a pretty great album, and I prefer it to 2112 and AFTK, about even with Fly By Night. Probably would only rank it behind Hemispheres from the 70s albums.

[The Letter M]

Just popping in to say how much more I appreciate and enjoy Caress Of Steel now than when I first discovered Rush over 20 years ago. Every song just hits me harder now, and it's easily my favorite of their first three albums. The more I've been listening to COS, the more I think I might like it over 2112 as a whole, whose second side is a bit hit-or-miss for me.

It's a tough call for me.  In the recent Rush countdown, I ranked 2112 at #19 and The Fountain at #30.  There aren't any throwaway sections in 2112, but The Fountain has Didacts and Panacea, and In the Valley and The Fountain are really similar.  Overall...

19. 2112
27. The Necromancer
30. The Fountain of Lamneth
37. Bastille Day
50. A Passage to Bangkok
55. Lakeside Park (although the ATWAS version is MUCH better than the studio version)
65. The Twilight Zone
66. Something for Nothing
76. Tears
104. Lessons
134. I Think I'm Going Bald

Not entirely sure how that shakes out in terms of ranking them against each other, but I think it's really close, and the gap isn't anywhere near as big as it was back in the day.

Well, given that COS has three songs in your Top 50 against 2112's two, I'd say COS takes a bit of an edge over 2112. Granted, 2112 being at 19th gives it plenty of weight, but having three COS songs between 27th-37th is no light weight either. As for TFOL, I guess I don't mind "Didacts And Narpets" being a drummer, and I find it fascinating that Neil continued to incorporate part of that piece into his drum solos for YEARS after the COS Tour.

I came to Caress of Steel very late (soon after Neil’s passing). I wasn’t enthusiastic about their other 70s albums and it had a poor reputation so it just wasn’t a priority. But I think it’s a pretty great album, and I prefer it to 2112 and AFTK, about even with Fly By Night. Probably would only rank it behind Hemispheres from the 70s albums.

Interesting! I'd say that COS is about even with FBN for me as well, but I'd still put AFTK and HEMI above it. If I had to rank their 70s albums, it might look like:

AFTK
HEMI
COS
2112
FBN
RUSH

-Marc.

[pg1067]

Well, given that COS has three songs in your Top 50 against 2112's two, I'd say COS takes a bit of an edge over 2112. Granted, 2112 being at 19th gives it plenty of weight, but having three COS songs between 27th-37th is no light weight either. As for TFOL, I guess I don't mind "Didacts And Narpets" being a drummer, and I find it fascinating that Neil continued to incorporate part of that piece into his drum solos for YEARS after the COS Tour.

The best part of Didacts is that it's short (sort of live Five Percent for Nothing by Yes).

I assigned points the same way the various countdowns work (out of the 166 songs I ranked, with #166 getting 1 point and #1 getting 166 points):

COS:  552 points - 110.4 points per song - 12.25 points per minute (based on the minute count in the albums' Wikipedia articles)
2112: 622 points - 103.67 points per son - 16.07 points per minute

Pretty much even.

[Kram]

Just popping in to say how much more I appreciate and enjoy Caress Of Steel now than when I first discovered Rush over 20 years ago. Every song just hits me harder now, and it's easily my favorite of their first three albums. The more I've been listening to COS, the more I think I might like it over 2112 as a whole, whose second side is a bit hit-or-miss for me.

It's a tough call for me.  In the recent Rush countdown, I ranked 2112 at #19 and The Fountain at #30.  There aren't any throwaway sections in 2112, but The Fountain has Didacts and Panacea, and In the Valley and The Fountain are really similar.  Overall...

19. 2112
27. The Necromancer
30. The Fountain of Lamneth
37. Bastille Day
50. A Passage to Bangkok
55. Lakeside Park (although the ATWAS version is MUCH better than the studio version)
65. The Twilight Zone
66. Something for Nothing
76. Tears
104. Lessons
134. I Think I'm Going Bald

Not entirely sure how that shakes out in terms of ranking them against each other, but I think it's really close, and the gap isn't anywhere near as big as it was back in the day.

Well, given that COS has three songs in your Top 50 against 2112's two, I'd say COS takes a bit of an edge over 2112. Granted, 2112 being at 19th gives it plenty of weight, but having three COS songs between 27th-37th is no light weight either. As for TFOL, I guess I don't mind "Didacts And Narpets" being a drummer, and I find it fascinating that Neil continued to incorporate part of that piece into his drum solos for YEARS after the COS Tour.

I came to Caress of Steel very late (soon after Neil’s passing). I wasn’t enthusiastic about their other 70s albums and it had a poor reputation so it just wasn’t a priority. But I think it’s a pretty great album, and I prefer it to 2112 and AFTK, about even with Fly By Night. Probably would only rank it behind Hemispheres from the 70s albums.

Interesting! I'd say that COS is about even with FBN for me as well, but I'd still put AFTK and HEMI above it. If I had to rank their 70s albums, it might look like:

AFTK
HEMI
COS
2112
FBN
RUSH

-Marc.

100%  I'd go this way -

HEMI
AFTK
2112
COS
FBN
RUSH

So they got better with each album IMO.  But I agree the overall point of the recent discussion, that COS is surely underrated, and often got a bad rap through the years.

[The Letter M]

Just popping in to say how much more I appreciate and enjoy Caress Of Steel now than when I first discovered Rush over 20 years ago. Every song just hits me harder now, and it's easily my favorite of their first three albums. The more I've been listening to COS, the more I think I might like it over 2112 as a whole, whose second side is a bit hit-or-miss for me.

It's a tough call for me.  In the recent Rush countdown, I ranked 2112 at #19 and The Fountain at #30.  There aren't any throwaway sections in 2112, but The Fountain has Didacts and Panacea, and In the Valley and The Fountain are really similar.  Overall...

19. 2112
27. The Necromancer
30. The Fountain of Lamneth
37. Bastille Day
50. A Passage to Bangkok
55. Lakeside Park (although the ATWAS version is MUCH better than the studio version)
65. The Twilight Zone
66. Something for Nothing
76. Tears
104. Lessons
134. I Think I'm Going Bald

Not entirely sure how that shakes out in terms of ranking them against each other, but I think it's really close, and the gap isn't anywhere near as big as it was back in the day.

Well, given that COS has three songs in your Top 50 against 2112's two, I'd say COS takes a bit of an edge over 2112. Granted, 2112 being at 19th gives it plenty of weight, but having three COS songs between 27th-37th is no light weight either. As for TFOL, I guess I don't mind "Didacts And Narpets" being a drummer, and I find it fascinating that Neil continued to incorporate part of that piece into his drum solos for YEARS after the COS Tour.

I came to Caress of Steel very late (soon after Neil’s passing). I wasn’t enthusiastic about their other 70s albums and it had a poor reputation so it just wasn’t a priority. But I think it’s a pretty great album, and I prefer it to 2112 and AFTK, about even with Fly By Night. Probably would only rank it behind Hemispheres from the 70s albums.

Interesting! I'd say that COS is about even with FBN for me as well, but I'd still put AFTK and HEMI above it. If I had to rank their 70s albums, it might look like:

AFTK
HEMI
COS
2112
FBN
RUSH

-Marc.

100%  I'd go this way -

HEMI
AFTK
2112
COS
FBN
RUSH

So they got better with each album IMO.  But I agree the overall point of the recent discussion, that COS is surely underrated, and often got a bad rap through the years.

I can get behind that ranking. They definitely saw marked improvements with each new studio album, both in writing/composition and recording. Honestly, I could go with that ranking as well as I often flip-flop between AFTK/HEMI and now 2112/COS as to which of each pair is better. I could even say the same for PEW/MP as well.

-Marc.

[TAC]

I go..

Hemispheres
2112
FBN
Rush
AFTK
CoC

[HOF]

I go..

Hemispheres
2112
FBN
Rush
AFTK
CoC

Caress of Copper?