Rush v. Dirk, Pratt, & Lerxst

[TAC]

So...I read the following in a post on Reddit (in a DT-related sub):

"[W]hat was the best [DT] tour in your opinion?  And why?  For example, Rush's fan base universally accepts the Test for Echo tour as the best. . . ."

This made me nearly do a spit take and laugh out loud.

I'm not sure there's anything (much less that the T4E tour was the best) that is "universally" accepted by Rush's fan base.

Thoughts?

I tell you what, of all the live albums that Rush has put out, Different Stages is my absolute favorite and is a desert island album. The T4E tour was the first time I saw Rush live as well.

It was actually the last time I saw Rush.

[Setlist Scotty]

I honestly cannot pick a favorite tour of theirs, as each one has something unique to offer, regardless of length or song choices.

I agree with this. Beginning with the T4E tour moving forward, they did a great job of mixing up the setlist and bringing back a good number of the more obscure tracks that only the diehards would recognize, aside from the R30 tour which felt like quite a bit of a rehash of the VT tour setlist. This in comparison to all the previous tours where there seemed to be a lot more overlap between the older songs that were featured on previous tours, a good helping of the latest album they were promoting and only a couple of more obscure tracks.
 
 

The T4E tour was the first time I saw Rush live as well.

It was actually the last time I saw Rush.

Timmy, you never saw them after Neil's tragedies?   

[TAC]

The T4E tour was the first time I saw Rush live as well.

It was actually the last time I saw Rush.

Timmy, you never saw them after Neil's tragedies? 

Nope. It just never really worked out. I'm not the hugest Rush guy anyway. I almost made it to their last tour. I saw them at least a half dozen times, and never really felt the need to follow up in their latter years.

[KevShmev]

Yeah, pretty much every set list once they started doing evening with shows in 1997 was, at the very worst, very good. I would say the Test for Echo and Time Machine tours had the least best ones, but still a lot of greatness in both.  For me, from an enjoyment standpoint, it is hard to top the Vapor Trails tour as it was the comeback tour and just an amazing set list, but the Clockwork Angels tour came pretty damn close. All of those Power Windows songs!!!

[TAC]

My first time seeing Rush was the Power Windows tour. It seemed like after every song, Geddy said, "We'd like to play a new song off of Power Windows."
I was like "WUT? You gotta be kidding me!" 

[jammindude]

That was my first Rush show as well. I was over the moon. I had been on a a bit of a Rush downturn the previous year. I actually didn’t even buy Power Windows when it first came out. But then I had a buddy at school give me his copy because he didn’t care for it, and I was floored by how great it was. That album rekindled my waning Rush fandom.

By the time I got to the show, I was back to full blown fanboy.

[KevShmev]

That was before my time unfortunately, but I saw six of the eight Power Windows songs over the years (saw them on every tour from Roll the Bones through R40), so I cannot complain. The only ones I missed were Emotion Detector, which was never played IIRC, and Manhattan Project, which was only played on one tour I attended (Clockwork Angels), and it was not in the rotation the night they were here in STL, but I think the nights it got played were ones early on when Middletown Dreams got subbed out for The Body Electric in the first set (I think), and I would rather have gotten Middletown Dreams, so all good for me.

[TAC]

Providence was the 2nd night of the tour. We were about 5 rows right in front of Geddy. He just looked pissed off all night. Early tour kinks I guess. I was actually quite disappointed.

My Rush fandom was rekindled when I saw them on the HYF tour. Way more energetic and fun.

[KevShmev]

Providence was the 2nd night of the tour. We were about 5 rows right in front of Geddy. He just looked pissed off all night. Early tour kinks I guess. I was actually quite disappointed.

My Rush fandom was rekindled when I saw them on the HYF tour. Way more energetic and fun.

I think I remember reading that it took them some time on that tour to get used to all of the new stuff they had to do on stage (that was the tour where they were doing more on-stage triggering and whatnot, what with the album being by far the most keys-heavy one to date).

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

Providence was the 2nd night of the tour. We were about 5 rows right in front of Geddy. He just looked pissed off all night. Early tour kinks I guess. I was actually quite disappointed.

My Rush fandom was rekindled when I saw them on the HYF tour. Way more energetic and fun.

I think I remember reading that it took them some time on that tour to get used to all of the new stuff they had to do on stage (that was the tour where they were doing more on-stage triggering and whatnot, what with the album being by far the most keys-heavy one to date).

The sheer amount of stuff those three could pull off on stage was nothing short of mind blowing. Every concert I saw I was always impressed. Watching Geddy play bass, keys, triggers, and sing was always a joy and he made it seem so easy, I know it definitely isn't.

[Architeuthis]

The first time I saw Rush was in Seattle on the Presto tour. Mind blown!!!   I've seen them every tour since and my favorites are the Presto tour and R30.  The drums sounded superb on those two tours with great set lists.   I'll have to say that everything from Vapor Trails on, their live shows have been amazing!   
 I wish I could have seen them on the Moving Pictures tour and earlier..

[DTA]

I can't think of another band who's setlists got better as they got older. So many bands seem to go on autopilot in their later years and rely on a core group of songs they never deviate from.

I've perused their tour history extensively online (and even got the newest book dedicated to it) and their sets from 1974-1994 were good, but way too rigid and predictable imo. I can't imagine the amount of great songs we would've gotten if they'd rotated material, or done Evening Withs on some 80's tours. Time Machine, Clockwork Angels, and R40 were all filled with both popular songs and rarities which is what I wish every band would do instead of worrying about the crowd's reaction.

[nick_z]

Yeah, pretty much every set list once they started doing evening with shows in 1997 was, at the very worst, very good. I would say the Test for Echo and Time Machine tours had the least best ones, but still a lot of greatness in both.  For me, from an enjoyment standpoint, it is hard to top the Vapor Trails tour as it was the comeback tour and just an amazing set list, but the Clockwork Angels tour came pretty damn close. All of those Power Windows songs!!!

Yes! That was such a great surprise. Middletown Dreams, in particular, is one of my favorite deep track of theirs...

[TAC]

LFR did a reaction to The Trees this morning. I've watched a few of his videos and they're kind of funny.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-PVfycaxQ0

"This song is about taxes!"

[pg1067]

Universally is an EXTREMELY strong word…

For me, this is what it comes down to.

There's people in the fan base like you who love Power Windows and people like me and Tim.  There are people in the fan base who don't love Hemispheres.  If there's any fan base where nothing is "universally agreed," it's the Rush fan base.

I can't think of another band who's setlists got better as they got older. So many bands seem to go on autopilot in their later years and rely on a core group of songs they never deviate from.

I've perused their tour history extensively online (and even got the newest book dedicated to it) and their sets from 1974-1994 were good, but way too rigid and predictable imo. I can't imagine the amount of great songs we would've gotten if they'd rotated material, or done Evening Withs on some 80's tours. Time Machine, Clockwork Angels, and R40 were all filled with both popular songs and rarities which is what I wish every band would do instead of worrying about the crowd's reaction.

Well...they didn't exactly have a lot of room to get too far afield before...say...Moving Pictures.

I saw Rush 20 times, starting with the GUP tour.  Looking back at that set list, it was fairly lackluster, but it was my first Rush show, so....

On POW, they brought The Trees back, and I remember a bunch of "new wave" looking fans appearing confused about the song.  This prompted my friend and me (who were all of 19 and on our second show ever) to act like we had some impressive scope of Rush knowledge compared to anyone else.  I remember running into a guy who claimed to have seen them on the COS tour, and he became our god.

The HYF tour was probably the nadir for set lists, but at least we got to see La Villa for the first time.

At the end of the day, even though I didn't start going to shows until the tour in support of the 11th studio album, I still got to see all but a small handful of my favorite songs from the first 10 albums, and that's pretty damn impressive.

[pg1067]

LFR did a reaction to The Trees this morning. I've watched a few of his videos and they're kind of funny.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-PVfycaxQ0

"This song is about taxes!"

I suppose I could click the link, but what's LFR?

[TAC]

It's a Reaction Channel on Youtube. Some black dude. He can be pretty funny at times.

I found him because I like to watch Black Reaction channels to Bill Burr, who does a lot of humor involving black people. He has a funny reaction vid to the Larry Bird mix tape.

[TAC]

There's people in the fan base like you who love Power Windows and people like me and Tim.  There are people in the fan base who don't love Hemispheres.  If there's any fan base where nothing is "universally agreed," it's the Rush fan base.

There was a thread a few months back about if you had a time machine what tours/shows would you travel too.
One of my choices was Rush's Hemispheres tour.

[King Postwhore]

There's people in the fan base like you who love Power Windows and people like me and Tim.  There are people in the fan base who don't love Hemispheres.  If there's any fan base where nothing is "universally agreed," it's the Rush fan base.

There was a thread a few months back about if you had a time machine what tours/shows would you travel too.
One of my choices was Rush's Hemispheres tour.

Probably, The Orpheum which would be very cool.

[Stadler]

Universally is an EXTREMELY strong word…

For me, this is what it comes down to.

There's people in the fan base like you who love Power Windows and people like me and Tim.  There are people in the fan base who don't love Hemispheres.  If there's any fan base where nothing is "universally agreed," it's the Rush fan base.

Maybe it's me, but when people say "universally" about Rush, it's a way of justifying their own position/opinion.  I know for me, I run counter to about 95% of the fanbase:

- I think Permanent Waves is the worst album from 2112 to Signals;
- I think P/G is a bottom two album;
- I think "The Garden" is massively overrated by many Rush fans;
- I think Hold Your Fire is probably their best collection of SONGS (and the one album I would LOVE to hear done acoustically);
- I think for all his vocal troubles, Geddy is underrated as a singer;
- I think Snakes And Arrows is the high point of the last third of their recorded output (from RtB on);

My first show was the Power Windows tour, and my last was Test For Echo (not for lack of desire to see them; it didn't work out logistically for the most part).  T4E may have been the best of those, but the PW and Presto tours were pretty damn strong themselves.

[Kram]

I saw them twice on the T4E tour and I remember they were both great shows.  I remember being so excited, when we learned a few days before the first show, that they'd be playing all of 2112!  My favorite Rush show however, would either be the first show I saw (Sep 23, 1983 Radio City Grace Under Pressure warm up tour) or the R30 show in Chula Vista CA.  My buddy and I had front row for that one, right in front of Geddy, and it was just an incredible show.  We were going crazy and a couple of times he noticed us and gave us a thumbs up!

[HOF]

Maybe it's me, but when people say "universally" about Rush, it's a way of justifying their own position/opinion.  I know for me, I run counter to about 95% of the fanbase:

- I think Permanent Waves is the worst album from 2112 to Signals;
- I think P/G is a bottom two album;
- I think "The Garden" is massively overrated by many Rush fans;
- I think Hold Your Fire is probably their best collection of SONGS (and the one album I would LOVE to hear done acoustically);
- I think for all his vocal troubles, Geddy is underrated as a singer;
- I think Snakes And Arrows is the high point of the last third of their recorded output (from RtB on);

This is fun. My contrarian Rush takes:

- 2112 is a bottom 3 Rush album;
- Similarly, Fountain of Lamneth is a better epic than 2112;
- Cygnus X-1 is the weakest Rush epic;
- Moving Pictures is the second weakest of the 80s albums, and some days I might prefer HYF;
- The last great Rush album was Vapor Trails;
- Power Windows is Rush’s finest moment with everything firing on all cylinders.

[pg1067]

There's people in the fan base like you who love Power Windows and people like me and Tim.  There are people in the fan base who don't love Hemispheres.  If there's any fan base where nothing is "universally agreed," it's the Rush fan base.

There was a thread a few months back about if you had a time machine what tours/shows would you travel too.
One of my choices was Rush's Hemispheres tour.

Can't disagree with that.  The set list from Dec. 28, 1978 in Toronto:

Anthem
A Passage to Bangkok
By-Tor
Xanadu
Something for Nothing
The Trees
The Voyage
Hemispheres (in its entirety)
Closer to the Heart
Circumstances
A Farewell to Kings
La Villa Strangiato
2112 (excluding The Oracle and supposedly including Discovery, but I don't know how much of it)
Working Man
Bastille Day
In the Mood (with drum solo)

The Moving Pictures set list was no slouch either.

Maybe it's me, but when people say "universally" about Rush, it's a way of justifying their own position/opinion.  I know for me, I run counter to about 95% of the fanbase:

- I think Permanent Waves is the worst album from 2112 to Signals;
- I think P/G is a bottom two album;
- I think "The Garden" is massively overrated by many Rush fans;
- I think Hold Your Fire is probably their best collection of SONGS (and the one album I would LOVE to hear done acoustically);
- I think for all his vocal troubles, Geddy is underrated as a singer;
- I think Snakes And Arrows is the high point of the last third of their recorded output (from RtB on);

My first show was the Power Windows tour, and my last was Test For Echo (not for lack of desire to see them; it didn't work out logistically for the most part).  T4E may have been the best of those, but the PW and Presto tours were pretty damn strong themselves.

Agree about the premise and the use of "universally."

As for your hot takes:

- From 2112 to Signals, I'd probably say 2112 is the weakest, bit it's painful to use negative superlatives with any of those albums.
- I wouldn't say bottom 2, but GUP is definitely bottom 5, and you and I are generally in lock step about the weaknesses of that album.
- Couldn't agree more about The (zzzzz) Garden.
- HYF is where we part company.  For me, it's the worst of the three synth era albums.
- Agree about Geddy, although I'd never actually given it much thought (especially given how highly regarded he is as a bassist, and deservedly so).
- I liked S&A when it came out (I kinda bought into the "return to the classic Rush sound" hype), but I like VT better and maybe also T4E.

- Cygnus X-1 is the weakest Rush epic;

Which part?  Or are you grouping both Books together?

- Power Windows is Rush’s finest moment with everything firing on all cylinders.

That makes me LOL, but it seems not to be a particularly contrarian take around here.

[HOF]

- Cygnus X-1 is the weakest Rush epic;

Which part?  Or are you grouping both Books together?

The one on A Farewell to Kings.

[pg1067]

- Cygnus X-1 is the weakest Rush epic;

Which part?  Or are you grouping both Books together?

The one on A Farewell to Kings.

I wouldn't call The Voyage an "epic," but it's not like that term has a well-defined meaning.

[KevShmev]

Why are we still calling Cygnus X-1 just "The Voyage"?  Rush themselves always listed it as Cygnus X-1 on the back covers of both the original studio album and the live albums where it was featured. 

While I know they are technically Book I and Book II of Cygnus X-1, every Rush fan I have ever known has referred to the songs as Cygnus X-1 (the song from AFTK) and Hemispheres (the song from Hemispheres). 

[TAC]

While I know they are technically Book I and Book II of Cygnus X-1, every Rush fan I have ever known has referred to the songs as Cygnus X-1 (the song from AFTK) and Hemispheres (the song from Hemispheres). 

Only an elitist would call it otherwise.

[The Letter M]

It's the kind of pedantry one might expect from a Rush fan.

But yes, typically whenever anyone says just "Cygnus X-1", it's universally accepted that they mean the closing song from AFTK, while the opening song to the follow-up album is mostly referred to as just "Hemispheres".

But if we really want to be pedantic...

- Cygnus X-1 is the weakest Rush epic;

Which part?  Or are you grouping both Books together?

Maybe he meant the single vinyl compilation, simply titled Cygnus X-1? 🤔

-Marc.

[Setlist Scotty]

Why are we still calling Cygnus X-1 just "The Voyage"?  Rush themselves always listed it as Cygnus X-1 on the back covers of both the original studio album and the live albums where it was featured. 

Agreed. I think it's similar to how we always refer to Metropolis part 1: The Miracle and the Sleeper just as "Metropolis" and Metropolis part 2: Scenes From a Memory just as "Scenes From a Memory".

[Kram]

Why are we still calling Cygnus X-1 just "The Voyage"?  Rush themselves always listed it as Cygnus X-1 on the back covers of both the original studio album and the live albums where it was featured. 

While I know they are technically Book I and Book II of Cygnus X-1, every Rush fan I have ever known has referred to the songs as Cygnus X-1 (the song from AFTK) and Hemispheres (the song from Hemispheres). 

Thank you!

[King Postwhore]

[RodrigoAltaf]

 I didn't see anyone post or comment on the new track from Alex Lifeson's project, Envy of None: https://youtu.be/vV-IZRh22mo

 Honestly, not my cup of tea AT ALL, and something I would never listen to the end if Lifeson wasn't in it. Thoughts? Comments?

[HOF]

I didn't see anyone post or comment on the new track from Alex Lifeson's project, Envy of None: https://youtu.be/vV-IZRh22mo

 Honestly, not my cup of tea AT ALL, and something I would never listen to the end if Lifeson wasn't in it. Thoughts? Comments?

There’s been quite a bit of discussion about it in a dedicated thread just below this one on the front page!

[The Letter M]

I didn't see anyone post or comment on the new track from Alex Lifeson's project, Envy of None: https://youtu.be/vV-IZRh22mo

 Honestly, not my cup of tea AT ALL, and something I would never listen to the end if Lifeson wasn't in it. Thoughts? Comments?

There’s been quite a bit of discussion about it in a dedicated thread just below this one on the front page!

Yep, started the thread a couple days ago when the news broke.
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=57169.0

-Marc.

[The Letter M]

https://youtu.be/tZHAFiegO74

Just watched the Charismatic Voice do her first ever reaction/analysis to Rush with "The Spirit Of Radio". Some very interesting comments for her first time with the band! Leave it to her to make a 23-minute video out of a 5-minute song.

-Marc.