Rush v. Dirk, Pratt, & Lerxst

[The Curious Orange]

I really like Presto, I don't know why it doesn't get more love. Sure, the tinny production has dated awfully, but every rock record sounded like that back then. It's probably Rush's greatest collection of songs.

[goo-goo]

Where would you consider the Rush synth era to start?

[Mladen]

To me, synth era starts with Signals. It's not that several albums that precede do not feature keyboards, because they do, but with Signals, pretty much every song had keyboards in the forefronth. That was not that much of a case on YYZ or Limelight.

[Lupton]

Yeah. I've always felt that the chorus for Witch Hunt foreshadows the impending synth era. That chorus sounds very much like most of the production on the following record, Signals. There's also that section under the guitar melody/solo on YYZ right before the last verse (which conjures the emotional feeling of distance and long journeys -- the airport theme of the tune!) which has that wall of poly-synth sound so familiar to the early 80s synth era. But as Mladen states, it wasn't until Signals that this was on every song.

[King Postwhore]

They purposely when heavy on the synths for Signals but Alex pushed back and had a more prominent sound for his guitars on GUP.  It was them asking Peter Collins on PW if they could balance to 2.

[pg1067]

We all like what we like.  I get it.  Heck, there are some Rush fans out there who love Presto more than Moving Pictures.

It's the folks who think Power Windows is great that really concern me.

Power Windows IS great!

The greatest!

Too true. If you take Emotion Detector off, you have a collection of the 7 most perfectly crafted songs from the synth era. Their songwriting would never again be on this level caliber for the remainder of the trio's output, and they would never again release another album of mostly all A-grade material. From this point going forward, there would be lots more "filler" tracks on each successive record.

Emotion Detector is actually one of the decent songs on the album.

I can see how the dialed-up-to-11 drumming, insane basslines, textural guitar parts, and majestic vocals from PoW are just such a turn-off.

How about the fake-sounding instruments?  The blaring-like-a-car-horn keyboard patches?  Insane bass lines?  Beyond Marathon, I haven't heard any on POW, and his bass tone is bleh.  Also, does "majestic" mean "largely emotionless"?  Anyway, this horse is dead and beaten.

It seems most of the best Rush albums are either solid through and through, or have only one skip-able track.

POW is full of skippable tracks.  I regularly run through all the Rush albums and don't skip tracks.  However, if I were just putting on POW by itself, the only tracks I'd bother with would be Manhattan Project, Marathon, Middletown Dreams and Emotion Detector.  Mystic Rhythms was an embarrassment.  I will allow that the live version of Grand Designs on the CA tour was decent and a vast improvement over the album.

Yeah. I've always felt that the chorus for Witch Hunt foreshadows the impending synth era.

Out of curiosity, which part of Witch Hunt are you referring to as a "chorus"?

[Lupton]

Out of curiosity, which part of Witch Hunt are you referring to as a "chorus"?

The chord progression for the chorus starts at 1:32, but the stuff that sounds like it could be lifted off of Signals doesn't start until the 2:18 mark. Main difference, of course, is the vastly superior drum production on MP.

[Lupton]

POW is full of skippable tracks.  I regularly run through all the Rush albums and don't skip tracks.  However, if I were just putting on POW by itself, the only tracks I'd bother with would be Manhattan Project, Marathon, Middletown Dreams and Emotion Detector.  Mystic Rhythms was an embarrassment.  I will allow that the live version of Grand Designs on the CA tour was decent and a vast improvement over the album.

Well that's just your opinion man!    The live version of Grand Designs was OK but to me it is a perfect example of a song that works much, much better on the studio version where all the sequencer triggered stuff feeling much more fully integrated into the production, and not just some bells and whistles tacked on to a live trio performance. What tears me the most about CA was there they had the fucking string section to do Manhattan Project, but do they use them? Nah this YYZ tune needs strings instead!

[pg1067]

Out of curiosity, which part of Witch Hunt are you referring to as a "chorus"?

The chord progression for the chorus starts at 1:32, but the stuff that sounds like it could be lifted off of Signals doesn't start until the 2:18 mark. Main difference, of course, is the vastly superior drum production on MP.

1:32 is in the middle of the first group of lyrics (between "the vigilantes gather on" and "the lonely torchlit hill").  2:18 is in the middle of "oh, oh, oh, oooooohh!!" and is followed by the first big synth part.  That's what you mean?

Well that's just your opinion man!    The live version of Grand Designs was OK but to me it is a perfect example of a song that works much, much better on the studio version where all the sequencer triggered stuff feeling much more fully integrated into the production, and not just some bells and whistles tacked on to a live trio performance. What tears me the most about CA was there they had the fucking string section to do Manhattan Project, but do they use them? Nah this YYZ tune needs strings instead!

Of course it's an opinion.  That's all any of this is.

Also, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5X7_JYwDEEU (unfortunately, they alternated MP with Dreamline on that tour).

[Lupton]

Out of curiosity, which part of Witch Hunt are you referring to as a "chorus"?

The chord progression for the chorus starts at 1:32, but the stuff that sounds like it could be lifted off of Signals doesn't start until the 2:18 mark. Main difference, of course, is the vastly superior drum production on MP.

1:32 is in the middle of the first group of lyrics (between "the vigilantes gather on" and "the lonely torchlit hill").  2:18 is in the middle of "oh, oh, oh, oooooohh!!" and is followed by the first big synth part.  That's what you mean?

Well that's just your opinion man!    The live version of Grand Designs was OK but to me it is a perfect example of a song that works much, much better on the studio version where all the sequencer triggered stuff feeling much more fully integrated into the production, and not just some bells and whistles tacked on to a live trio performance. What tears me the most about CA was there they had the fucking string section to do Manhattan Project, but do they use them? Nah this YYZ tune needs strings instead!

Of course it's an opinion.  That's all any of this is.

Also, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5X7_JYwDEEU (unfortunately, they alternated MP with Dreamline on that tour).

Yes, the chord progression which starts there right after the the lyric "the lonely torchlit hill", and this is the same progression continues (with full band coming in at 2:18) all the way up to the 2:56 where the verse returns. Basically a typical A-B-A-B arrangement. Broken down with timestamps:

Intro:        0:00 - 1:04
Verse 1:    1:04 - 1:32
Chorus 1:  1:32 - 2:56
Verse 2:    2:56 - 3:37
Chorus 2:  3:37 - 4:46

So the 2:18-2:56, and 3:37-4:46 chunks of the tune are the "Signals" sounding stuff.

[Lupton]

Also, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5X7_JYwDEEU (unfortunately, they alternated MP with Dreamline on that tour).

So funny! I was at THAT show in Dallas and I don't remember them using the strings for that.    10 demerits

You can actually see me and my friend in the audience during one of the PW songs on the Blu-Ray -- it's been ages since I've checked out that live release but I think it's Territories. And yes, that's my friend Randy pumping his fist in the air when the instrumental section of Big Money peaks (also made the intro menu as such!).

[nick_z]

S&A sounds amazing. It's decent songs that it lacks.

I do think it has "decent" songs - the issue for me is that it doesn't have much beyond that  I find it enjoyable, and it sounds very good. Far Cry and Armor and Sword (anybody hear some Hysteria in the chorus' guitars or am I nuts?) start it off strong, then I like The Way the Wind Blows and find Main Monkey Business pretty fun, but the rest kind of comes and goes. Again, all very pleasant, but not much to wow me.

I thought they sounded absolutely great on that tour, though. In fact, the live album/DVD from it is thoroughly enjoyable. Setlist considerations aside, I find it significantly better than the ones that followed it.

[jammindude]

I really like SAA. After the disappointing VT, it sounded like they were getting a bit more “back to their roots” with the Hemispheres power chord, the acoustic guitars, the dash of bluesy influence.

Hope/Faithless is the high watermark of the album to me, and I wish they had played them together live.

[Kram]

We all like what we like.  I get it.  Heck, there are some Rush fans out there who love Presto more than Moving Pictures.

It's the folks who think Power Windows is great that really concern me.

Power Windows IS great!

The greatest!

Too true. If you take Emotion Detector off, you have a collection of the 7 most perfectly crafted songs from the synth era. Their songwriting would never again be on this level caliber for the remainder of the trio's output, and they would never again release another album of mostly all A-grade material. From this point going forward, there would be lots more "filler" tracks on each successive record.

Emotion Detector is actually one of the decent songs on the album.

I can see how the dialed-up-to-11 drumming, insane basslines, textural guitar parts, and majestic vocals from PoW are just such a turn-off.

How about the fake-sounding instruments?  The blaring-like-a-car-horn keyboard patches?  Insane bass lines?  Beyond Marathon, I haven't heard any on POW, and his bass tone is bleh.  Also, does "majestic" mean "largely emotionless"?  Anyway, this horse is dead and beaten.

There's awesome bass playing throughout Power Windows. 

[HOF]

S&A sounds amazing. It's decent songs that it lacks.

I do think it has "decent" songs - the issue for me is that it doesn't have much beyond that  I find it enjoyable, and it sounds very good. Far Cry and Armor and Sword (anybody hear some Hysteria in the chorus' guitars or am I nuts?) start it off strong, then I like The Way the Wind Blows and find Main Monkey Business pretty fun, but the rest kind of comes and goes. Again, all very pleasant, but not much to wow me.

I thought they sounded absolutely great on that tour, though. In fact, the live album/DVD from it is thoroughly enjoyable. Setlist considerations aside, I find it significantly better than the ones that followed it.

Just picturing it in my head, but yeah, I can see what you mean with that.

[King Postwhore]

pg is the only person I've ever heard calling Power Windows Emotionless. 

Also his favorite song on the album is by far the least liked song by most Rush fans.  Though the guitar solo in EM is amazing.

[TAC]

pg is the only person I've ever heard calling Power Windows Emotionless. 

Must not have the ..detector.

[King Postwhore]

pg is the only person I've ever heard calling Power Windows Emotionless. 

Must not have the ..detector.

Yes.  You two are broken. 

[Stadler]

They purposely when heavy on the synths for Signals but Alex pushed back and had a more prominent sound for his guitars on GUP.  It was them asking Peter Collins on PW if they could balance to 2.

The problem is everything else on GUP.   Neil's drums are anemic and Alex sounds like he's auditioning for The Police.

[Architeuthis]

They purposely when heavy on the synths for Signals but Alex pushed back and had a more prominent sound for his guitars on GUP.  It was them asking Peter Collins on PW if they could balance to 2.

The problem is everything else on GUP.   Neil's drums are anemic and Alex sounds like he's auditioning for The Police.

Dang it,  I never thought of it that way.  Especially on Kid Gloves.

[King Postwhore]

They purposely when heavy on the synths for Signals but Alex pushed back and had a more prominent sound for his guitars on GUP.  It was them asking Peter Collins on PW if they could balance to 2.

The problem is everything else on GUP.   Neil's drums are anemic and Alex sounds like he's auditioning for The Police.

LOL  Did you know Neil purposely did not use his concert toms in recording GUP?

[Stadler]

They purposely when heavy on the synths for Signals but Alex pushed back and had a more prominent sound for his guitars on GUP.  It was them asking Peter Collins on PW if they could balance to 2.

The problem is everything else on GUP.   Neil's drums are anemic and Alex sounds like he's auditioning for The Police.

LOL  Did you know Neil purposely did not use his concert toms in recording GUP?

I did not know it was on purpose.   I guess even the masters stumble once in a blue moon.... 

[King Postwhore]

Lol.  It was done purposely. Just like Alex tried to use chordal structure for his solos. For most, not all.

[TAC]

 

[KevShmev]

No insane bass lines on Power Windows except for in Marathon?  This must be the Bizarro World. 

[pg1067]

pg is the only person I've ever heard calling Power Windows Emotionless. 

Also his favorite song on the album is by far the least liked song by most Rush fans.  Though the guitar solo in EM is amazing.

Marathon is the least liked song on POW by most Rush fans??  News to me (I only said Emotion Detector was "decent" and one of four tracks I would bother with if I weren't doing a full album listen).

[King Postwhore]

Ok, well liked. Still most will say that's the weakest song on the album.

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

Power Windows has no weak songs. Anyone who says different is wrong! 

[pg1067]

Power Windows has no weak songs.

Today, that's only the second funniest thing I've read.

[TAC]

Power Windows has no weak songs.

I mean, how can you really tell?

[nick_z]

So, out of curiosity, I aggregated the rankings for the post-CP albums...I mean, there's a lot that can be inferred from the massive sample size of all of 9 (nine) people 

Anyway, for the fun of it (assigning 5 pts for top ranked down to 1 for bottom):

1. Clockwork Angels
2. Counterparts
3. Vapor Trails
4. Snakes and Arrows
5. Test for Echo

CP is the most "consistent" (lowest variability across rankings), only one top ranking, and the only one with no bottom rankings. Not surprisingly, VT has the largest variability across rankings. CA has the highest number of "top" scores, but the second largest variability across rankings. T4E has the most bottom rankings, and is the only one with no top scores. S&A is kind of in the middle, in all respects, but ends up being just edged out by VT.

If anyone else wants to add their rankings, I'd be happy to update (for the interest of, um, no one?  )

[KevShmev]

Mine would be:

1 Counterparts
2 Clockwork Angels
3 Snakes and Arrows
4 Vapor Trails
5 Test for Echo

[ProfessorPeart]

Oof, not easy. I guess mine would be something like this:

1 Clockwork Angels
2 Vapor Trails (2013 HD Remaster)
3 Counterparts
4 Test For Echo
5 Snakes and Arrows

1 and 2 could probably flip-flop at any given time. The rest is pretty static.

[Cool Chris]

....Alex sounds like he's auditioning for The Police.

I am not even sure I know what this means and I still chuckled...

[Orbert]

For a while there, Alex seemed to be channeling Andy Summers (of The Police).  Lots of 7ths and 9ths, somehow distorted and clean-sounding at the same time, compressed but ever-so-slightly low in the mix.  I happen to like the sound, but Rush's reggae/ska period did seem to borrow heavily from The Police.