Rush v. Dirk, Pratt, & Lerxst

[pg1067]

The thing about RTB is that it has a few weak tracks, which for some fans, is all they think of. But it has three of the biggest concert staples of their career( Dreamline, Bravado, RTB). The band probably thinks about those songs mainly when talking about the album. On top of those three you another great song with Ghost of a Chance, a decent instrumental, and two pretty good songs; The Big Wheel and Heresy. Commercially the album was a hit as well. So yeah…they should be proud of it. I think it’s a great album and a great mix of what they did in the 80s and what they were moving toward. For me they didn’t make a better album until Clockwork Angels.

I mean...I have an opposite view.  It has mostly weak tracks, one of which is one of the staples you mentioned.  I can find NOTHING redeeming about the song Roll the Bones (i.e., it's not just the silly-ass "rap" section).  Dreamline is ok, but Bravado is dull as heck.  The Big Wheel is probably the only song on the album I'd really go out of my way to listen to.  Every subsequent album (even CA) was an improvement.

As far as what Geddy thinks, that's great, but a musical artist's opinions about his/her own songs has no impact on what I like and don't like.

Also, saw the news about Mary Weinrib.  She had a terrible beginning to life but hopefully he last 2/3s made up for it.

[nick_z]

As far as what Geddy thinks, that's great, but a musical artist's opinions about his/her own songs has no impact on what I like and don't like.

Oh, I agree 100%. There are plenty of examples (including this, at least to an extent) where that's the case for me (or when the converse is true too!). Maybe that's a good idea for a thread!

I just find these statements interesting as they give some insight, whatever that might be, in what the artist's thinking is and their musical journey - once again, discounting the "this last album is the best thing we've ever done" kind of statement 

[pg1067]

As far as what Geddy thinks, that's great, but a musical artist's opinions about his/her own songs has no impact on what I like and don't like.

Oh, I agree 100%. There are plenty of examples (including this, at least to an extent) where that's the case for me (or when the converse is true too!). Maybe that's a good idea for a thread!

I just find these statements interesting as they give some insight, whatever that might be, in what the artist's thinking is and their musical journey - once again, discounting the "this last album is the best thing we've ever done" kind of statement 

Agree.  Contemporaneous statements about "the best thing we've ever done" are completely meaningless, but it is interesting to read what they think in retrospect.

[KevShmev]

Damn, that means in the last two weeks, both Neil's father and Geddy's mother have passed away. Rough summer for the Rush extended family. 

Back to the tunes, I have always loved Roll the Bones, so any support for it, from fans or Geddy, is something I can get behind. 

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

Back to the tunes, I have always loved Roll the Bones, so any support for it, from fans or Geddy, is something I can get behind. 

Same. It was the first album I bought with my own money when it came out, so maybe I'm biased. I don't love every song on it, but I think every song has merit.

[T-ski]

This is my 2112th post, so I put it in this thread.

[pg1067]

This is my 2112th post, so I put it in this thread.

 

[Lupton]

This is my 2112th post, so I put it in this thread.

  Proper!

[King Postwhore]

 

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[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

This is my 2112th post, so I put it in this thread.

Now just put number 2113 in the Coheed and Cambria thread.

[nick_z]

Next up - Counterparts. Just wanted to to write a few words about it, as it was my first Rush album and, to this day, a top 3 Rush for me.

Got it a bit randomly when it came out in 1993. Now, note that by then I hadn't heard a single note from Rush yet. No Tom Sawyer, no Closer to the Heart, no 2112, or Spirit of Radio. Nothing. I read a good review that mentioned it was a return to a harder-rocking sound from this pretty iconic Canadian band and I went for it. I remember liking it, maybe not falling in love with it right away, but liking it enough to plant some sort of seed. Well, as they say, the rest is history: I got them all, in a somewhat nonlinear fashion (read: jumping back and forth chronologically), and what a series of discoveries they were. And as I was doing it, I also appreciated Counterparts more and more.

I'll have to write down a full album ranking at some point (has it been done recently?  ) but the point is, after all this time, Counterparts is still firmly top-echelon Rush, as far as I am concerned - likely only behind Moving Pictures and Permanent Waves. Not related to the "return to harder roots" (at least sound-wise), as I had no preconceived notion of what Rush "should sound like" when I first heard it. In fact, I LOVE the third-period, keyboard era.

I just love this record so much. Animate is one of my favorite Rush songs. I think it's quite different from anything they've done before or after, the way it grooves, the bass line with the drums, and the subtle synths. It was one of the highlights of R40 for me (much better than other times I had heard it on previous live albums). Cold Fire, too, such an underrated gem (for some reason, the "I'll be around" part always made me think of Mellencamp's Human Wheels, which was out pretty much around the same time). And Leave That Thing Alone is such a fun instrumental. But, truly, I like all the songs in here.

Anyway, this was my gateway to what has then become my favorite band. By the time I was waiting for Test for Echo to be released, my Rush discog was complete.

What's the view of DTF's Rush fans on Counterparts? Sharing the love? Not so much? 

[Architeuthis]

I love the sound on Counterparts and the song writing. Cut to the Chase is probably my favorite track and I love the way Geddy sings the verses. It also has one of my favorite Alex shredding solos.   

[Kram]

Love Counterparts - Top 10 Rush album for me.

[Orbert]

Counterparts is great.  It sounds great, and the songs themselves I would rank near the top of "later Rush" for me.

[pg1067]

Counterparts was a big improvement over RTB.  I liked it more when it came out than I do now, but I'd still say it's "pretty good."  My affinity for Animate has waned, but I still like Stick It Out.  Nobody's Hero hasn't aged well for me.  Never been a huge fan of Thing 1, but it's ok.  Same with Chase.  The Speed of Love and Cold Fire are the duds of the album, but the rest of the tracks really grew on me over the years -- particularly Everyday Glory, which is my favorite song on the album.

[Stadler]

Counterparts is great.  It sounds great, and the songs themselves I would rank near the top of "later Rush" for me.

That's me, in a nutshell.

[jammindude]

I loved CP when it first came out, but it hasn’t aged well IMO. After being synth dominant from 82-87, and then a bit more organic (but with a lighter tone) for Presto and RTB, CPs harder sound was a breath of fresh air. However, songs like Stick it Out felt like they were trying too hard to stay relevant in the grunge era. The album does have some great songs (Animate, Cut to the Chase, Alien Shore, Cold Fire) but some of the songs fell flat (Stick it Out, Nobody’s Hero, Between the Sun and Moon, Speed of Love). The reason I’ve always preferred TFE is because it felt more like they found *their own* sound with the harder edged approach instead of hunting around for what they were trying to be.

And to anyone that wants to criticize the lyrical missteps on TFE, I would argue that BTSAM might be the worst lyrics since the debut. That chorus is TERRIBLE. I hope it was Pye’s contribution because I would hate to believe Neil was responsible for that dreck.

[nick_z]

Counterparts was a big improvement over RTB.  I liked it more when it came out than I do now, but I'd still say it's "pretty good."  My affinity for Animate has waned, but I still like Stick It Out.  Nobody's Hero hasn't aged well for me.  Never been a huge fan of Thing 1, but it's ok.  Same with Chase.  The Speed of Love and Cold Fire are the duds of the album, but the rest of the tracks really grew on me over the years -- particularly Everyday Glory, which is my favorite song on the album.

Agreed on Everyday Glory, fantastic closer. I like Speed of Love, but yes, it's probably my least favorite on the album. As I said, I love Cold Fire, all of its different moods - why do you consider it one of the duds?

[nick_z]

I loved CP when it first came out, but it hasn’t aged well IMO. After being synth dominant from 82-87, and then a bit more organic (but with a lighter tone) for Presto and RTB, CPs harder sound was a breath of fresh air. However, songs like Stick it Out felt like they were trying too hard to stay relevant in the grunge era. The album does have some great songs (Animate, Cut to the Chase, Alien Shore, Cold Fire) but some of the songs fell flat (Stick it Out, Nobody’s Hero, Between the Sun and Moon, Speed of Love). The reason I’ve always preferred TFE is because it felt more like they found *their own* sound with the harder edged approach instead of hunting around for what they were trying to be.

And to anyone that wants to criticize the lyrical missteps on TFE, I would argue that BTSAM might be the worst lyrics since the debut. That chorus is TERRIBLE. I hope it was Pye’s contribution because I would hate to believe Neil was responsible for that dreck.

Except for Stick It Out, which I enjoy but I agree sounds slightly forced in its desire to be "current" (especially with the heaviness of the main riff), I don't necessarily view CP as Rush "trying to be" something. Yes, the sound is guitar-driven again and, in that respect, I can see how that's not 100% coincidental and they sure were paying attention to the current musical landscape (as they've always done throughout the years - sometimes ignoring it, sometimes not!). But the songs themselves are still very much "Rush".

I like Test for Echo - it was my first Rush album purchased as a fan. And I agree with you it's perhaps a little more idiosyncratic. But it never quite won me over like CP did. For me, some of the songs are just kind of there and "bland", and the highlights (and there surely are!) don't hit me as hard.

[HOF]

Counterparts is great. I agree Stick it Out is a bit weak, and I can see not liking Between Sun & Moon or Alien Shore or Speed of Love, but I genuinely enjoy those tracks. The album sounds fantastic, and while I prefer the keyboard heavy era that preceded it, it kicked off a decent run as a more contemporary sounding hard rock band.

[Architeuthis]

I loved CP when it first came out, but it hasn’t aged well. The reason I’ve always preferred TFE is because it felt more like they found *their own* sound with the harder edged approach instead of hunting around for what they were trying to be.

I'm a big fan of TFE. Time and Motion is one of my favorite deep cuts from Rush..   

[HOF]

I loved CP when it first came out, but it hasn’t aged well. The reason I’ve always preferred TFE is because it felt more like they found *their own* sound with the harder edged approach instead of hunting around for what they were trying to be.

I'm a big fan of TFE. Time and Motion is one of my favorite deep cuts from Rush..   

I'm a big fan of Test for Echo. Time and Motion not so much (it's ok, just never loved it)!

[Lupton]

I loved CP when it first came out, but it hasn’t aged well. The reason I’ve always preferred TFE is because it felt more like they found *their own* sound with the harder edged approach instead of hunting around for what they were trying to be.

I'm a big fan of TFE. Time and Motion is one of my favorite deep cuts from Rush..   

Always thought that Time and Motion was great, though I know many don't regard it that well. The title track, however, has not aged well for me!   I tend to enjoy T4E on the whole more than anything that followed it. Not saying the next 3 studio albums are bad by any stretch, there just seems a downward trend in songwriting quality with each record. CA may have a slight edge over S&A for me now, but in terms of just quality of songwriting I'd take VT over both.  All IMVHO of course 

[nick_z]

I remember being really excited about Time and Motion back then, because it sounded a little more "proggy"  But I'd say, soon after, my excitement waned a bit, as the song doesn't really seem to go anywhere...The title track, Driven and Virtuality are probably my faves from the record

[HOF]

I remember being really excited about Time and Motion back then, because it sounded a little more "proggy"  But I'd say, soon after, my excitement waned a bit, as the song doesn't really seem to go anywhere...The title track, Driven and Virtuality are probably my faves from the record

Heck yeah, Virtuality is awesome! I also really like The Color of Right. I think I might be alone in that, but I love the lyric.

[Architeuthis]

Virtuality and The Color of Right are both excellent songs!   

[ProfessorPeart]

Wow. I just watched the Cradle To The Stage episode with Ged and his mom. Some powerful stuff in there. I was not fully aware of what his parents went through in the war. I knew they were holocaust survivors, but I was not aware of how deep in it they were.

Watching it today (Saturday) was made all the more sad as they went over the Saturday ritual that Ged and his mom had and now she is gone.

I will also reiterate this, although I have never been able to grasp onto the Foos music, I'm not sure there is a musician I respect more than Dave Grohl. Throw out a documentary that he is involved with and I am there. His love and passion for all of this is just awesome.

[Setlist Scotty]

I will also reiterate this, although I have never been able to grasp onto the Foos music, I'm not sure there is a musician I respect more than Dave Grohl. Throw out a documentary that he is involved with and I am there. His love and passion for all of this is just awesome.

I'm in the same boat - what little I've heard from FF doesn't do anything for me, but DG is about as passionate as they come. Would've loved to have seen MP induct indict Rush into the RnR HoF, but there's no way he could have ever topped DG.

[Stadler]

And to anyone that wants to criticize the lyrical missteps on TFE, I would argue that BTSAM might be the worst lyrics since the debut. That chorus is TERRIBLE. I hope it was Pye’s contribution because I would hate to believe Neil was responsible for that dreck.

This is trolling. 

I actually like BTSAM, but "net boy, net girl"  Please.   Gene Simmons is a better lyricist than that.

[Setlist Scotty]

Love CP - one of my top 3 Rush albums. In particular Cut to the Chase and Alien Shore (which I don't think gets much love). T4E, not so much. There's a few songs on it that I like - in particular Time and Motion (glad to see some love for it) - but far less than CP.
 
 

And to anyone that wants to criticize the lyrical missteps on TFE, I would argue that BTSAM might be the worst lyrics since the debut. That chorus is TERRIBLE. I hope it was Pye’s contribution because I would hate to believe Neil was responsible for that dreck.

I think they're both responsible for your dreck:
http://www.2112.net/powerwindows/transcripts/19920000duboisbetweensunmoon.htm

Anyway, I'm with Stads - I'll take that over Net Boy Net Girl any day of the week.
 
 

I also really like The Color of Right. I think I might be alone in that, but I love the lyric.

Definitely just a generic tune that doesn't stand out at all. That said, I'll take it over probably half of the other stuff on T4E. One song I love lyrically but musically leaves me flat is Half the World.

[KevShmev]

Gotta give jammindude props. Every time there is chatter about Counterparts, he sees the bat signal and has to come in and tell everyone again how bad it is compared to Test for Echo.

[King Postwhore]

And every time I think, "Dude is insane." 🤣

[KevShmev]

We all like what we like.  I get it.  Heck, there are some Rush fans out there who love Presto more than Moving Pictures.

[jammindude]

I hate being predictable.

 

But seriously, it baffles me.  TFE came out when I was running the CD shop at the local Fred Meyer, and I played it in store constantly. Couldn’t get enough of it. It wasn’t until I started hanging out online some 4 years later that I discovered there was a world where Rush fans revered CP over TFE.  I actually like CP, and I get why people love it (especially after the tepid RTB) but it just didn’t age well for me and I consider decent, but just average. But TFE is top 6, and was top 5 until CA came out.  I’m still shocked that people don’t think that’s the pinnacle of their 90s output.

[KevShmev]

Nothing shocks my anymore on the internet , but Test for Echo is for my money one of their two least best albums. 

I think Clockwork Angels could have made a strong case for being a top 5 Rush album if it sounded great (imagine that album with the mix of Counterparts!! *drools*), but it sounds too muddy, to where I rarely listen to it anymore.  It's not nearly as bad as the original Vapor Trails, but it's still one of their three or four worst sounding albums.  Too bad, cause the songwriting is top notch.  I'd love to get a cleaner mix of that someday, but I am not holding my breath.