Rush v. Dirk, Pratt, & Lerxst

[Orbert]

It kinda makes sense that Alex would have heard of them.  Geddy and Neil maybe not, for different reasons, but Alex kept changing his style and adapting over the years, so to me that indicates keeping track of current music a little more closely.  Note that I don't say "popular music" because it's not like Dream Theater were anywhere near mainstream, but R30 was from 2005.  A lot of people had heard of them by then.  I remember when that quote was pointed out.  MP was over the moon, of course.  One of his favorite bands mentioning DT.  I remember thinking it was cool how they'd recognized each other.  The older generation recognizing the next generation.

[ytserush]

I’d like to show some random love and appreciation for Digital Man. Such an underrated song and definitely my favorite from Signals ❤️🤘

Love that song. Would be at or near the top of my list of favorite Geddy bass lines.

It’s been stuck in my head for days. I regret missing the Snakes & Arrows tour cuz of that song. That tour had such a great setlist

Put that version on a Rush live CD comp for the car which I listened to one day last week. It's pretty sweet.

[ytserush]

Anyone know the exact sources (date and location) for the bonus tracks on the R30 DVD, specifically:
- "Circumstances" (I have one source that puts this at the Hammersmith Odeon in 1979)
- "La Villa Strangiato" (I have one source that puts this at the Hammersmith Odeon in 1979)
- "A Farewell to Kings" - (I have a couple sources that put this at Seneca College Theatre in 1977)
- "Xanadu"  - (I have a couple sources that put this at Seneca College Theatre in 1977)

Also, what do we know about the "Church Sessions" (the two videos with the church background)? 

Thanks in advance!

 A Farewell To Kings videos were shot in mid-June '77.   Hemispheres videos were likely shot in early May '79 when Rush were over there. Those video s are sometimes referred to as "soundstage videos" The Fly By Night videos were shot in '75 at a college in Georgia if I'm not mistaken.

[ytserush]

So...I'm watching the second disco of the R30 video, and there's an interview of Geddy, Alex & Neil from some sort of "artist of the decade" thing from 1990.  You don't hear any of the questions asked -- just the band members responding -- and at one point Alex says the following:

"There are bands -- a few bands -- Dream Theater is an example of a fairly young band that's writing in a style that pushes their musical abilities to the furthest point and they...there are a number of bands like that are like that that have said that we've influenced them that way, and that's certainly satisfying to know that there are still a lot of young musicians that really want to go out there and just be great musicians."

I'm not sure if I watched this when I first got these DVDs, but I certainly don't remember that content.  Kinda wild that, in 1990, with only WDADU having been released, Alex knew about DT!

Portnoy wrote to The Spirit Of Rush fanzine in 1989 which also reviewed the album. That may be how Alex found out about Dream Theater. That's how I found out about Dream Theater.

[pg1067]

It kinda makes sense that Alex would have heard of them.  Geddy and Neil maybe not, for different reasons, but Alex kept changing his style and adapting over the years, so to me that indicates keeping track of current music a little more closely.  Note that I don't say "popular music" because it's not like Dream Theater were anywhere near mainstream, but R30 was from 2005.  A lot of people had heard of them by then.  I remember when that quote was pointed out.  MP was over the moon, of course.  One of his favorite bands mentioning DT.  I remember thinking it was cool how they'd recognized each other.  The older generation recognizing the next generation.

R30 was released in 2005, but the interview in question was from 1990.  For Alex to have heard of DT at a time when their only release was the not-widely-distributed WDADU is pretty remarkable.

Portnoy wrote to The Spirit Of Rush fanzine in 1989 which also reviewed the album. That may be how Alex found out about Dream Theater. That's how I found out about Dream Theater.

I've written about this previously, but I first heard of them sometime in the spring or summer of 1989.  I saw a blurb on MTV about "bands you might also like if you like Queensryche."  It was about a year after Operation: Mindcrime had been released.  They mentioned Fates Warning, Dream Theater and Crimson Glory.  I went to a local record store than had a lot of obscure stuff and found FW's No Exit.  I also found Crimson Glory but was turned off by the masks and the singer's name.  I looked and looked for Dream Theater but couldn't find anything.  By the time 1992 rolled around, I had all but forgotten about them, and then Pull Me Under broke big.

[Stadler]

So...I'm watching the second disco of the R30 video, and there's an interview of Geddy, Alex & Neil from some sort of "artist of the decade" thing from 1990.  You don't hear any of the questions asked -- just the band members responding -- and at one point Alex says the following:

"There are bands -- a few bands -- Dream Theater is an example of a fairly young band that's writing in a style that pushes their musical abilities to the furthest point and they...there are a number of bands like that are like that that have said that we've influenced them that way, and that's certainly satisfying to know that there are still a lot of young musicians that really want to go out there and just be great musicians."

I'm not sure if I watched this when I first got these DVDs, but I certainly don't remember that content.  Kinda wild that, in 1990, with only WDADU having been released, Alex knew about DT!

I obviously had the same reaction, and at first I thought there must be some sort of lag, but my research says that was in November of 1990, so....   they were on people's radar, though, since Marillion had already asked them to open for them.

[Setlist Scotty]

So...I'm watching the second disco of the R30 video, and there's an interview of Geddy, Alex & Neil from some sort of "artist of the decade" thing from 1990.  You don't hear any of the questions asked -- just the band members responding -- and at one point Alex says the following:

"There are bands -- a few bands -- Dream Theater is an example of a fairly young band that's writing in a style that pushes their musical abilities to the furthest point and they...there are a number of bands like that are like that that have said that we've influenced them that way, and that's certainly satisfying to know that there are still a lot of young musicians that really want to go out there and just be great musicians."

I'm not sure if I watched this when I first got these DVDs, but I certainly don't remember that content.  Kinda wild that, in 1990, with only WDADU having been released, Alex knew about DT!

Portnoy wrote to The Spirit Of Rush fanzine in 1989 which also reviewed the album. That may be how Alex found out about Dream Theater. That's how I found out about Dream Theater.

That was my thought as well. The Spirit of Rush fanzine was really behind DT from day one, for a long time being the only other band featured to any degree in the fanzine besides Rush. I would imagine that the guys in Rush probably got copies of each issue and were at least mildly curious to see who this Dream Theater band was, and so checked them out.

[jammindude]

Had the week off work. Got caught up on things I’m way behind on. FINALLY! And yes...the next entry in the AC/DC listening party is next.

But I decided to relax after breakfast and watch a live Rush video. I settled on Snakes and Arrows Live. I’m only on song two, but it’s given me a whole new appreciation for Digital Man. They are having so much fun here! And the jamming on the end is exhilarating! The studio version is my least favorite from Signals, and never struck me as being all that interesting. But this live version is so good.

[Stadler]

Had the week off work. Got caught up on things I’m way behind on. FINALLY! And yes...the next entry in the AC/DC listening party is next.

But I decided to relax after breakfast and watch a live Rush video. I settled on Snakes and Arrows Live. I’m only on song two, but it’s given me a whole new appreciation for Digital Man. They are having so much fun here! And the jamming on the end is exhilarating! The studio version is my least favorite from Signals, and never struck me as being all that interesting. But this live version is so good.

I've said before I've been going through these, and in watching A Show Of Hands, S&A live, and Time Machine I have such a new appreciation for Alex.  It's always fun to watch Neil play (probably my favorite drummer to just WATCH; and the S&A video is shot SO WELL from that perspective.  He seems so CLOSE.) but Alex just makes it sound so EASY.   I was watching the Oh Atlanta part and got so excited I picked up my guitar and in about 8 minutes I put it back down out of frustration.  HAHAHA. 

[jammindude]

The other thing that I’m loving about this video is how much fun they’re having playing the new material. Really, just how much fun they’re having in general.

As I’m listening to Circumstances, it occurs to me that this was probably the last tour were Geddy was really able to belt it out without straining. I know Circumstances is tuned down a notch but he’s still hitting the notes pretty well.

[KevShmev]

Agreed, the Snakes and Arrows tour was the last tour where I can honestly say I enjoyed Geddy's live vocals. I still enjoyed the hell out of the shows on the last three tours that I saw live, but listening to just about anything from them on the live albums or concerts is pretty tough due to his voice.

I still think playing five new songs in a row to kick off the second set was a misstep (St Louis LOVED Rush and even most of the crowd here was getting bored by the 4th song...probably didn't help that it was Spindrift ), but you had to admire them for having the guts to do it.  Many bands at that stage of their career, even if they talk up how good their new album is, do a token new song or two and then basically play a greatest hits set list. Rush was always throwing red meat to both the diehards and the fans who did want to hear the new stuff.

[Stadler]

Yeah, I'm watching Time Machine right now, and I'm getting chills.  Workin' Them Angels, Leave That Thing Alone and especially Faithless.  GTFO.   No, Geddy's not perfect (and watching him, I didn't realize how much he was "working" his voice; he was struggling and clearly using techniques that he had been taught to make it through) but the emotion and the power were enough to carry it.

I've always been a fan but I'm having a sort of renaissance lately.  I've seen them four times but I'm a little bummed I didn't make more of an effort to see those last couple tours (it was a tough time for me; I was traveling a lot for work, I moved like four times in four years, and oh, yea, got divorced, but still).

I also think I value Snakes and Arrows more than most; that's my favorite of the latter day Rush and it's not really that close.

[ReaperKK]

I know I've gotten a few laughs here but snakes and arrows really is my favorite album. It's the first one that I listened to and the one I go back to the most. I've never seen snakes and arrows love, I should give that a look.

[Stadler]

I know I've gotten a few laughs here but snakes and arrows really is my favorite album. It's the first one that I listened to and the one I go back to the most. I've never seen snakes and arrows love, I should give that a look.

As I always do, like broken record:  If you like Snakes and Arrows, and you haven't already, find the documentary that was made about the recording of that album.  It was released on a S&A deluxe set (with the 5.1 mix).   Great to watch, and a really moving scene involving Neil and the recording of "The Way The Wind Blows".   Especially given the events of the last 15 months or so, it's an incredible testament to Neil's talent and the band's affection and respect for one another.

[DTA]

I know I've gotten a few laughs here but snakes and arrows really is my favorite album. It's the first one that I listened to and the one I go back to the most. I've never seen snakes and arrows love, I should give that a look.

Certainly an unpopular opinion but there's a lot of great music on S&A and like Kev said, it was refreshing to see them have the balls to put so much of it into the setlist when most bands their age are just coasting on their old songs. My favorite is Hold Your Fire which is frequently at the bottom of peoples lists, so I'm right there with you.

[KevShmev]

Snakes & Arrows was pretty well liked and got a lot of praise at the time of its release and thereafter, by me included, but I think, for many, it eventually settled into that "good album, but not one of their better ones" category.  No shame in that considering how much great material Rush had.

[HOF]

I know I've gotten a few laughs here but snakes and arrows really is my favorite album. It's the first one that I listened to and the one I go back to the most. I've never seen snakes and arrows love, I should give that a look.

I don’t love Snaked and Arrows, but I can relate since I felt similarly about Vapor Trails for a long time. That was my first Rush album, and despite its imperfections the lyrics really grabbed me. Test for Echo was another early Rush experience for me (after trying and distinctly not liking 2112), and that one has remained a favorite as well despite popular opinion. Both have been surpassed by other Rush albums for me over the years, but I still think both are strong Rush albums.

[hunnus2000]

WOW!

I woke up this morning and was lying around in bed surfing YouTube on the phone when the documentary for S&A came up on my feed. Wifey was still asleep so I watched it.

True but mundane story about that tour:

S&A was the tour that we started  flying to the opening night shows and this tour kicked off  in Atlanta so off we go. We knew a lot of people from attending multiple shows over the years and as you know (or may not know) people come from all over the world, especially the first show of the tour.
One of the organizers of RushCon, Jillian, was at the preshow party and of course hugs all around, talking, catching up when she announces I hate S&A. What?? Blasphemer! Stone her to death!!! She goes on to yell at the top of her lungs - I HATE SNAKES AND ARROWS in a crowded room of about 50-60 people!
Fast forward to the after show party and she comes in screaming - I LOVE SNAKES AND ARROWS!!! We thought it was funny at the time........I guess you had to be there.

The interesting thing about her was she worked on Obama's campaign and took a job in his Administration for 8 years. (Mundane fact).

The second part of that tour started out in Puerto Rico which is when we spent time with Alex after the show - but that's a story for another day.....

[NoseofNicko]

I know I've gotten a few laughs here but snakes and arrows really is my favorite album. It's the first one that I listened to and the one I go back to the most. I've never seen snakes and arrows love, I should give that a look.

It was my favorite Rush album for a short period of time when it came out. I still like it a lot but I’d take quite a few of their albums over it.

[pg1067]

S&A starts off very strong.  Unfortunately, it's a bit too long.  The last third of it is incredibly forgettable.

It ends up somewhere in the top part of the bottom half of my rankings.

[TAC]

The only thing S&A has going for it is its sound.

[HOF]

S&A starts off very strong.  Unfortunately, it's a bit too long.  The last third of it is incredibly forgettable.

It ends up somewhere in the top part of the bottom half of my rankings.

I think you could fairly say every Rush album from Counterpoints on suffers from being a bit too long. If they were making those albums LP length and only used the best of the material I think they’d be stronger.

The only thing S&A has going for it is its sound.

Not sure I agree there. It’s better sounding than the two Rush albums it is sandwiched between, but it’s still awfully loud and hot.

[KevShmev]

S&A sounds great during the laid back/mellow moments, but when the album rocks, the production holds it back.  It is too dry and colorless to where it doesn't kick your ass the way it should.  I guess that is why my favorites now tend to be stuff like The Larger Bowl, The Main Monkey Business and Armor and Sword, as those have some great acoustic moments, and the mix works well for those.

But, hey, at the time of its release, it was like, hot damn, this sounds way better than the noisy Vapor Trails!! 

[TAC]

I like Far Cry and the beginning to The Way The Wind Blows, but I actually think the album blows. It feels like they tried to cram music around the lyrics.

[HOF]

I like Far Cry and the beginning to The Way The Wind Blows, but I actually think the album blows. It feels like they tried to cram music around the lyrics.

Far Cry I like well enough. Armor and Sword is pretty good. The Way The Wind Blows and Faithless are ok. But nothing on it really grabs me and I almost never listen to it.

[TAC]

I like Far Cry and the beginning to The Way The Wind Blows, but I actually think the album blows. It feels like they tried to cram music around the lyrics.

Far Cry I like well enough. Armor and Sword is pretty good. The Way The Wind Blows and Faithless are ok. But nothing on it really grabs me and I almost never listen to it.

I feel like if Vapor Trails sounded like S&A, it'd be a classic.

[KevShmev]

I don't think the best production in the world could dress up those ugly vocal melodies in One Little Victory, and some of the other songs have some clunky melodies, but there are some gems there amongst all the noise.  Ceiling Unlimited, Ghost Rider, Vapor Trail, Earthshine, Nocturne and Freeze are all keepers, if you ask me.

[TAC]

I don't think the best production in the world could dress up those ugly vocal melodies in One Little Victory, and some of the other songs have some clunky melodies, but there are some gems there amongst all the noise.  Ceiling Unlimited, Ghost Rider, Vapor Trail, Earthshine, Nocturne and Freeze are all keepers, if you ask me.

The only two songs I really don't care for are Ceiling Unlimited and Peaceable Kingdom.
I love How It Is and The Stars Look Down.

[The Letter M]

While we're talking about S&A, does it annoying anyone else that the band never faithfully recreated the opening staccato rhythms of "Far Cry" at the end of  measure two of the song? It's like they forgot how it was syncopated on the album and completely flattened the rhythm out for the live version. Maybe most folks ever noticed it, especially if they aren't musicians/drummers, but it always stuck out like a sore thumb because the studio version's opening was so unique to me.

-Marc.

[HOF]

I don't think the best production in the world could dress up those ugly vocal melodies in One Little Victory, and some of the other songs have some clunky melodies, but there are some gems there amongst all the noise.  Ceiling Unlimited, Ghost Rider, Vapor Trail, Earthshine, Nocturne and Freeze are all keepers, if you ask me.

I think Vapor Trails is the first album where Geddy’s voice starts to detract a bit from the material. I don’t think One Little Victory is such a terrible melody but something about the way Geddy sings it makes it grating. Which is too bad because it’s a powerhouse of a tune with Neil’s drumming. Ceiling Unlimited is similar in terms of the vocals. Just seems like Geddy is a little too strained on the chorus (but I really like the song).

I think the title track is fantastic, and Freeze always gets me. How it Is is another one that I just love the lyric. Earthshine is great. Ghost Rider and Sweet Miracle are great songs. Secret Touch I like a lot. Out of the Cradle is a great closer.

There are a couple tunes I might trim on VT. I don’t dislike The Stars Look Down or Nocturne, but I might drop those just to make it a little more concise. You could convince me to drop Peaceable Kingdom although I like it a lot.

[jammindude]

 It’s not so much his voice as much as it is the way they are tracked.  They started using this method of recording him where he was yodeling and then they were multi-tracking the yodels and it just gave it a really irritating bite. And I hear it more on VT than the next two albums.

 There was a bit of it in far cry, but they seemed a little lower in the mix so they didn’t quite hit you as hard

[ReaperKK]

I know I've gotten a few laughs here but snakes and arrows really is my favorite album. It's the first one that I listened to and the one I go back to the most. I've never seen snakes and arrows love, I should give that a look.

As I always do, like broken record:  If you like Snakes and Arrows, and you haven't already, find the documentary that was made about the recording of that album.  It was released on a S&A deluxe set (with the 5.1 mix).   Great to watch, and a really moving scene involving Neil and the recording of "The Way The Wind Blows".   Especially given the events of the last 15 months or so, it's an incredible testament to Neil's talent and the band's affection and respect for one another.

I saw this a little while back and loved it! Im a huge sucker for album recording documentaries and that was one of my favorite.

[Stadler]

I just love that dynamic between Alex and Geddy - and then Nick - who want to push Neil a little. He's not thrilled with that idea, but goes along with it.... and DESTROYS the song (in a good way).  Forget about Rush, forget about music, that's something I love and respect about LIFE.   Not everyone - even your friends - are going to kiss your ass all the time, not everyone is or will accept "good enough", and you can either roll over and pitch a fit, or you can rise to the occasion.  I think it speaks volumes of Neil as a man, a musician, and a friend that he not only rose to the occasion, but transcended it.



As for sound, I find it hilarious that we're commenting on the sound of S&A when "Grace Under Pressure" is in the catalogue. 

[hunnus2000]

I just love that dynamic between Alex and Geddy - and then Nick - who want to push Neil a little. He's not thrilled with that idea, but goes along with it.... and DESTROYS the song (in a good way).  Forget about Rush, forget about music, that's something I love and respect about LIFE.   Not everyone - even your friends - are going to kiss your ass all the time, not everyone is or will accept "good enough", and you can either roll over and pitch a fit, or you can rise to the occasion.  I think it speaks volumes of Neil as a man, a musician, and a friend that he not only rose to the occasion, but transcended it.



As for sound, I find it hilarious that we're commenting on the sound of S&A when "Grace Under Pressure" is in the catalogue. 

I dunno, I don't think Neil minded being pushed, he did after all take lessons from Freddie late in life when he had nothing to prove in his career. Hey - even MP "rises to the occasion" when they give him a Hello Kitty drum set! 

[Mladen]

To my ears, Snakes and arrows might be their best sounding album. It's too bad that there are too many songs on it that do nothing for me. I love Armor and sword, Far cry and Faithless. Spindrift, Good news first and Bravest face are solid. I'm not sure about the rest.