Rush v. Dirk, Pratt, & Lerxst

[The Letter M]

In.

Ditto.

I was hoping for the FULL Tuscon show, but I guess I'll settle for my soundboard boot. Maybe they felt the Pinkpop festival show sounded better overall?

Either way, I'll definitely have to get this one. This makes me wonder if the odds of a 40th anniversary set for Permanent Waves will be out in early 2020...

-Marc.

[Polarbear]

I love that new artwork, might even get this even though Hemishpheres is nowhere near my favorite Rush album. I'm really excited about the possible Permanent Waves Anniversary!

I wonder if this anniversary series is going to go to the end of eternity, eventually ending in Clockwork Angels Anniversary?

[pg1067]

I didn't look but what is the book about?

Ummm.....

OMG IT’S ACTUALLY HAPPENING!!!! I HAD GIVEN UP HOPE!!!!

SQUEEEEEEEEE!!!!!

https://www.rushisaband.com/blog/2018/10/05/5156/Rush-Hemispheres-40th-anniversary-box-set-coming-November-16th

A "box set."  Hmmm...  Haven't read all the details, but I hope it's not like the Metallica AJFA thing where you have to buy a bunch of vinyl in order to get a lot of the cool stuff.

Also, I have to call foul on a grown man saying "SQUEEEEEEE!!!"   

I wonder if this anniversary series is going to go to the end of eternity, eventually ending in Clockwork Angels Anniversary?

Maybe the Roll the Bones anniversary edition will include a hand-signed apology note....

[Stadler]

A "box set."  Hmmm...  Haven't read all the details, but I hope it's not like the Metallica AJFA thing where you have to buy a bunch of vinyl in order to get a lot of the cool stuff.

It kind of sounds that way; for the life of me I don't understand that.  I'm a huge 5.1 fan and it seems like I have to buy a shit-ton of vinyl to accomodate that.  Vinyl I have no use for (and actually feel a little bad for having to buy; it's wasteful).

[ProfessorPeart]

Everything is here:

https://rushbackstage.com/product/6XAMRU0179/hemispheres-super-deluxe-edition?cp=102112_103460

Blu-ray is exclusive to the super deluxe. I've bought them all so far, I wiill get this one too. Can't go wrong with the Abbey Road remaster. Very curious about the live show as well.

[Stadler]

See, that's the problem for me; i was able to get 5.1 versions of 2112, Moving Pictures and Farewell to Kings (albeit not the Wilson versions) outside of the "super duper deluxe", but not so with Hemispheres.  Hemispheres is one of my five or so favorite records ever, so I'm going to either have to find someone that wants the vinyl only, or who wants to sell their bluray out of their set.

[Adami]

Looks really cool. This was actually (I think) my first Rush record and made me fall in love with them. Sadly I can't afford the set, but it seems awesome.

[Orbert]

See, that's the problem for me; i was able to get 5.1 versions of 2112, Moving Pictures and Farewell to Kings (albeit not the Wilson versions) outside of the "super duper deluxe", but not so with Hemispheres.  Hemispheres is one of my five or so favorite records ever, so I'm going to either have to find someone that wants the vinyl only, or who wants to sell their bluray out of their set.

I'm in the same boat.  I want the 5.1 mixes, but shelling out a couple hundred bucks for a super-deluxe package -- most of which I really don't want -- is a deal-breaker.  How do they not understand that some people want the Blu-ray but not all the other stuff?

[jammindude]

This is my all time #1 favorite album from anyone ever...so I literally would have shelled out twice as much. I only wish SW had done this remix as well.

[pg1067]

So...here's what we get:

Super Deluxe Edition ($125)
2 CDs (remastered album and live material from November 1978 and June 1979)
1 blue ray disc (5.1 mixes of the album and 4 videos -- presumably the side 2 songs plus LVS from Pinkpop)
3 Vinyl albums (this appears to be the same content from the two CDs)
40 page hardcover book (photos and artwork)
11k word "essay" by someone I've never heard of
Replica tour program
24x24 poster
Replica Pinkpop ticket and "VIP sticky patch
"Replica" iron-on patch
"Free" 48-page notebook ("for all of your deep Rush thoughts")

2-CD Deluxe Edition ($16)
Same 2 CDs from the Super Deluxe Edition
A (presumably CD-sized) booklet that seems to combine the hardcover book and a shortened version of the "essay" and the replica program from the Super Deluxe Edition

There's also a 3-vinyl album set ($50) and versions of each set that come with a t-shirt, polo shirt or water bottle (the t-shirt, polo, water bottle and notebook are also sold separately).

So...if we want the cool stuff that comes with the Super Deluxe set, we have to buy the vinyl (which, since the vinyl only set costs $50, presumably contributes fairly significantly to the $125 cost of the set).  I guess the only positive is that the vinyl sleeves can be used as artwork (next to my signed Hemispheres album cover!).

This is my all time #1 favorite album from anyone ever...so I literally would have shelled out twice as much.

It's pretty much my all-time favorite album (or at least top 5), so I think I'm gonna pull the trigger on this one.

[Setlist Scotty]

I'll pick up the 2CD version (don't need all the extra crap with a marked up sticker price), but while it's nice to get an almost complete version of their Pinkpop performance (or so I ASSume), I would've preferred to get a full 2-hour Hemispheres show instead. Definitely a little disappointed in what they did this time around. Makes me wonder if they'll pull a similar stunt for Permanent Waves and merely remix and repackage the St. Louis broadcast (an incomplete show) that has been traded forever, instead of giving us a full show from that tour.

[ytserush]

For the third time I'm going with the 2CD set.  Bonus material is very underwhelming for me. (Though I just pulled the main part of disc two out to listen to now. (The Pinkpop bootleg. Love the bass on this.)  The hard cover book and the essay do hold minor interest though.

I really want all of the 2015 Magee masters released on CD. I'm sure this will give my Audio Fidelity Hemispheres a run for its money.

I'll probably end of with the Super Deluxes at some point but they aren't a priority. The priority for me is a better sounding Hemispheres and at least I know this will deliver.

I think Hugh Syme is losing it though.  Art looks like a lot of Tiles -- Presents of Mind outtakes.

I almost think the band isn't very involved with this stuff these days having cashed out to OLE a few years back.

[TAC]

I would've preferred to get a full 2-hour Hemispheres show instead. 

This, which is why I'll be ignoring this release.

[IDontNotDoThings]

Also, I have to call foul on a grown man saying "SQUEEEEEEE!!!"   

REEEEEEEEEE

[ProfessorPeart]

I really want all of the 2015 Magee masters released on CD.

Same here. I have bought the HD Tracks versions of the ones that haven't gotten a CD release up to 2112. I wanted to see how far they got with these anniversary editions before buying any more. They just sound so good.

[Grappler]

Rush has always been a greatest hits band for me.  I've had the Spirit of Radio 74-87 Greatest Hits cd for the last 15 years and felt it was enough and I love a lot of the songs on that compilation. 

Last week, I watched Beyond the Lighted Stage and just felt the urge to really explore their discography.

So far, I've checked out everything from Test For Echo onwards (I used to have Test For Echo when it came out, but sold it since I was into far heavier stuff then) - Test For Echo, Vapor Trails (remix), Snakes & Arrows & Clockwork Angels.  I'm really enjoying them all, Vapor Trails the most so far. 

Also working on 2112 and a few live ones (Exit Stage Left, Time Machine).

Other than Moving Pictures, is anything else considered essential?  Are any of the live discs better than the others? 

[Nick]

See, that's the problem for me; i was able to get 5.1 versions of 2112, Moving Pictures and Farewell to Kings (albeit not the Wilson versions) outside of the "super duper deluxe", but not so with Hemispheres.  Hemispheres is one of my five or so favorite records ever, so I'm going to either have to find someone that wants the vinyl only, or who wants to sell their bluray out of their set.

I'm in the same boat.  I want the 5.1 mixes, but shelling out a couple hundred bucks for a super-deluxe package -- most of which I really don't want -- is a deal-breaker.  How do they not understand that some people want the Blu-ray but not all the other stuff?

Silly boy, they obviously know that, which is why they do it this way.

It's all fucking marketing, using the highly prized item as a boxset exclusive to get more sales out of it.

[The Walrus]

Rush has always been a greatest hits band for me.  I've had the Spirit of Radio 74-87 Greatest Hits cd for the last 15 years and felt it was enough and I love a lot of the songs on that compilation. 

Last week, I watched Beyond the Lighted Stage and just felt the urge to really explore their discography.

So far, I've checked out everything from Test For Echo onwards (I used to have Test For Echo when it came out, but sold it since I was into far heavier stuff then) - Test For Echo, Vapor Trails (remix), Snakes & Arrows & Clockwork Angels.  I'm really enjoying them all, Vapor Trails the most so far. 

Also working on 2112 and a few live ones (Exit Stage Left, Time Machine).

Other than Moving Pictures, is anything else considered essential?  Are any of the live discs better than the others?

Man. Hemispheres, Power Windows in my opinion are their two best records. When I chose to explore their discography from start to finish last year, it was one of the best musical decisions I've ever made, and those two are the clear winners for my taste. Can't speak to the live discs but I would highly recommend those two albums as well as Permanent Waves. Maybe AFTK but that one is one of my least favorite Rush albums.

I would also highly recommend the documentaries Beyond the Lighted Stage and especially Time Stand Still.

[Stadler]

Rush has always been a greatest hits band for me.  I've had the Spirit of Radio 74-87 Greatest Hits cd for the last 15 years and felt it was enough and I love a lot of the songs on that compilation. 

Last week, I watched Beyond the Lighted Stage and just felt the urge to really explore their discography.

So far, I've checked out everything from Test For Echo onwards (I used to have Test For Echo when it came out, but sold it since I was into far heavier stuff then) - Test For Echo, Vapor Trails (remix), Snakes & Arrows & Clockwork Angels.  I'm really enjoying them all, Vapor Trails the most so far. 

Also working on 2112 and a few live ones (Exit Stage Left, Time Machine).

Other than Moving Pictures, is anything else considered essential?  Are any of the live discs better than the others?

Worm can: OPEN

Haha, you'll get 100 different answers to this, but while I'll give you my opinoin, I'll start with this:  if you don't want to go chronologically (a process for which Rush is almost perfectly suited, due to the arc of their career) then you at least have to do what the band (implicitly) did and that's break it down into segments. 

There's the first, metal segment:   Rush - 2112, capped off with All The World's A Stage
There's the second, prog segment:   A Farewell To Kings - Moving Pictures, capped off with Exit: Stage Left
There's the third, keyboard segment:  Signals - Hold Your Fire, capped off with A Show Of Hands
There's the fourth, I-don't-know-what-to-call-it* segment:  Presto - A Test For Echo, capped off with Different Stages
There's the fifth, I call it "encore"* segment:  Vapor Trails - Clockwork Angels, capped off with... their "retirement" (each tour had a live release here, so there's more than one "signature" live set in this segment). 

* Encore because it came after Neil's stepping away and no one being sure if he was coming back

I think you need to at least sample one record from each segment to really get a feel for the band.   I'm not sure any of their live albums are really indicative of a show - maybe All The World's A Stage, maybe Different Stages - until at least Rush In Rio.

For me:
1st:  2112
2nd: Any of them, really, though Hemispheres is my favorite followed by Moving Pictures
3rd: Signals or Power Windows
4th:  Presto or Counterparts
5th: You've got that covered

[pg1067]

Rush has always been a greatest hits band for me.  I've had the Spirit of Radio 74-87 Greatest Hits cd for the last 15 years and felt it was enough and I love a lot of the songs on that compilation. 

Last week, I watched Beyond the Lighted Stage and just felt the urge to really explore their discography.

So far, I've checked out everything from Test For Echo onwards (I used to have Test For Echo when it came out, but sold it since I was into far heavier stuff then) - Test For Echo, Vapor Trails (remix), Snakes & Arrows & Clockwork Angels.  I'm really enjoying them all, Vapor Trails the most so far. 

Also working on 2112 and a few live ones (Exit Stage Left, Time Machine).

Other than Moving Pictures, is anything else considered essential?  Are any of the live discs better than the others?

Asking Rush fans which albums are "essential" is likely to get you the entire catalog.

For me, 2112 through Signals is "essential," but I'm not really sure what that even means.  The first three albums show the band still finding its way (no pun intended).  The era from Grace Under Pressure through Test for Echo has maybe 2-3 good songs per album (save for Presto, which is the best of that era by far -- if you skip Hold Your Fire and Roll the Bones entirely, you won't be any the worse for it).  There are several really good songs on Vapor Trails through Clockwork Angels, but about 1/3 - 1/2 of each of those albums is skipable material.

As for the live albums, the first -- All the World's a Stage -- is the best.  It's the one that sounds most "live."  Exit Stage Left has the best collection of songs, but it sounds decidedly not "live."  A Show of Hands is probably the worst since it is full of "synth era" material and substandard versions of "classic era" songs.  Different Stages is really good -- particularly the third disc, which is from the A Farewell to Kings tour.  In the 2000s, they started releasing live albums after every tour, and I mostly stopped buying them (except on DVD).  There are a few highlights, but you get a lot of repeated material.

There's the fourth, I-don't-know-what-to-call-it* segment:  Presto - A Test For Echo, capped off with Different Stages

"Adult contemporary Rush"

[Grappler]

Asking Rush fans which albums are "essential" is likely to get you the entire catalog.

I had a feeling that would be the case, given the number of different eras that they have had across their career.  Great advice from everyone, especially Stadler's breakdown.  That's definitely helpful.

I don't mind the synth era (and absolutely love Subdivisions) but I did sample Power Windows and pretty much agree that it seems like the album has a few songs I like and the rest didn't grab me right away.  Lots of sampling ahead!   

[The Walrus]

I have a mighty need to jam The Manhattan Project now. And Grand Designs. And The Big Money. And Marathon. And...

[pg1067]

I don't mind the synth era (and absolutely love Subdivisions) but I did sample Power Windows and pretty much agree that it seems like the album has a few songs I like and the rest didn't grab me right away.  Lots of sampling ahead!   

Most Rush fans would break down Rush's eras as Stadler did, and that's understandable because, for the first 16 studio albums, there was a live album after every fourth album.  However, I sort of break things down a bit differently:

Rush through 2112 is the hard rock/metal era, but the prog was there starting with Fly by Night.

A Farewell to Kings and Hemispheres make up the full-on prog era.

The next era is Permanent Waves through Signals and is a more commercial friendly prog rock segment.

Then you have the so-called "synth era," which I regard as GUP through HYF, and then the remainder I agree with Stadler.

Even though Signals has a lot of synth, I think it fits FAR better with Permanent Waves and Moving Pictures than it does with GUP, Windows and HYF.  Signals is also a good line of demarcation because it was the band's last album with long-time producer, Terry Brown (which is probably why it sounds more like the two albums that came before than the three that came after).

My opinion is that side 2 of Power Windows is completely skipable, but others here think it's great.

If I did a "best of" the "synth era" (my version of it), you'd barely get enough material to fill out a single 80s length album:

The Enemy Within
Kid Gloves
Between the Wheels
Marathon
Manhattan Project
Mission

Maybe add Distant Early Warning, Time Stand Still and/or Turn the Page just to fill out the album.

[Orbert]

See, that's the problem for me; i was able to get 5.1 versions of 2112, Moving Pictures and Farewell to Kings (albeit not the Wilson versions) outside of the "super duper deluxe", but not so with Hemispheres.  Hemispheres is one of my five or so favorite records ever, so I'm going to either have to find someone that wants the vinyl only, or who wants to sell their bluray out of their set.

I'm in the same boat.  I want the 5.1 mixes, but shelling out a couple hundred bucks for a super-deluxe package -- most of which I really don't want -- is a deal-breaker.  How do they not understand that some people want the Blu-ray but not all the other stuff?

Silly boy, they obviously know that, which is why they do it this way.

It's all fucking marketing, using the highly prized item as a boxset exclusive to get more sales out of it.

Assuming you're not being sarcastic, I have to say that that's just a stupid business model.  And I would say that even if I wasn't pissed off about their stupid business model.

Yes, there will be people who drop $150 (or whatever) for the super-deluxe package.  But there's gotta be 10x or 20x as many people who'd buy the Blu-ray.  Aren't there?  That would more than make up for the smaller margin.

Rush fans are nerds, most of them techno-nerds.  Maybe I'm the odd one, but I just assumed that most people who are serious at all about music have 5.1 audio at home by now.  I've had Blu-ray in the house for over 10 years myself; I'm going on my third player.  Isn't that pretty much the norm?

[pg1067]

See, that's the problem for me; i was able to get 5.1 versions of 2112, Moving Pictures and Farewell to Kings (albeit not the Wilson versions) outside of the "super duper deluxe", but not so with Hemispheres.  Hemispheres is one of my five or so favorite records ever, so I'm going to either have to find someone that wants the vinyl only, or who wants to sell their bluray out of their set.

I'm in the same boat.  I want the 5.1 mixes, but shelling out a couple hundred bucks for a super-deluxe package -- most of which I really don't want -- is a deal-breaker.  How do they not understand that some people want the Blu-ray but not all the other stuff?

Silly boy, they obviously know that, which is why they do it this way.

It's all fucking marketing, using the highly prized item as a boxset exclusive to get more sales out of it.

Assuming you're not being sarcastic, I have to say that that's just a stupid business model.  And I would say that even if I wasn't pissed off about their stupid business model.

Yes, there will be people who drop $150 (or whatever) for the super-deluxe package.  But there's gotta be 10x or 20x as many people who'd buy the Blu-ray.  Aren't there?  That would more than make up for the smaller margin.

Rush fans are nerds, most of them techno-nerds.  Maybe I'm the odd one, but I just assumed that most people who are serious at all about music have 5.1 audio at home by now.  I've had Blu-ray in the house for over 10 years myself; I'm going on my third player.  Isn't that pretty much the norm?

I can't speak to the "norm," but I don't own a blue ray player (except for my Playstation), and I don't really even know what "5.1 audio" is.

As far as the business model, I'm not sufficiently sophisticated to know exactly what additional costs would be factored into an a la carte offering for this.  My assumption (and it seems pretty obvious) is that someone concluded that bundling the packages as they have done -- and thereby forcing consumers into an "all or nothing" decision -- will result in greater revenues than if they offered the various components of the package separately

[jammindude]

Dude really?   Movies on DVD and BluRay have been in 5.1 audio for almost 20 years as a standard.   You don't know what 5.1 audio is?

[jammindude]

If that came across as condescending, I didn't mean it that way, so I apologize.   I just didn't know there was anyone who didn't know what 5.1 audio is.   

5.1 Surround sound is you have 6 completely separate channels of audio.    Right front, left front, center, right rear, and left rear (that's your 5) and a bass channel just for the subwoofer (that's the .1).   

If mixed by someone who knows what they are doing, the results are freakin AMAZING.   Steven Wilson did the 5.1 mix for A Farewell to Kings, and the 5.1 mix for Xanadu is out of this world!!

[pg1067]

Dude really?   Movies on DVD and BluRay have been in 5.1 audio for almost 20 years as a standard.   You don't know what 5.1 audio is?

Yes, really.  I know it's an audio setting on some DVDs.  The first time I remember seeing it was when I popped in the Exit Stage Left disc from the Rush Replay x3 set that was released in 2006.  One of the other settings was "PCM" (or something like that).  I don't know what that is either.  Nor do I know who Steven Wilson is (other than that he's someone whose name gets bandied about here a lot and whom I'm sure I could google).

5.1 Surround sound is you have 6 completely separate channels of audio.    Right front, left front, center, right rear, and left rear (that's your 5) and a bass channel just for the subwoofer (that's the .1).   

I've never had (or really wanted) anything that even approached that advanced of an audio setup (can't really imagine where I'd put six separate speakers!).

[Setlist Scotty]

Add me to the list of non-surround sound people. When it comes to movies, it would be nice, but at present I don't have that kind of a set up (my PS3 is connected directly into our TV, and the sound comes out of the TV) - maybe one day I'll splurge, but not right now.

As for music, I'm sure surround sound is great, but I would imagine to really enjoy it, I'd have to be sitting in the sweet spot of a room. That's not me. Usually I've got my ear buds in, listening to tunes while I'm doing other things (which is also why I'm perfectly fine with live audio recordings - rarely would I sit down to watch a concert video).

[jammindude]

The thing is that it’s not even really “advanced”.     Oh sure, there are very advanced systems that cost thousands of dollars, but box stores sell home theater systems with speakers included for just a few hundred bucks.  In fact, I just did a search on Amazon and found a set up for $150.   And it appears to be just the size of a bookshelf system.   It’s probably not got top of the line sound, but the systems are not these over the top high end advanced items.   A lot of games are made in 5.1 so I’m sure they make something cheap that works with a PlayStation

[Stadler]

How you listen to music is your gig.   But there are some HUGE misconceptions here.   One, $$$.  You can do surround for as little as $250 (extra) maybe less.  Yeah there’s too end shit but the bump you get for going to surround is more than the difference of crappy to average speakers.  Second, sweet spot.  I have my surround speakers behind my couch.   With some exceptions it’s not like you really “hear” those speakers.   It’s an effect.   Crowd noise, movement, horns, doors, planes, things like that.  With music it’s depth, which you can get from anywhere in the room.  You also, believe it or not, can listen quieter.   For me 5.1 improves the sound WAY more than vinyl. 

At first it seemed gimmicky; the clocks in Dark Side.  Nick Davis blew that out of the water with the Genesis boxes (not saying he was first but he did a great job keeping it from a gimmick. 

[KevShmev]

I don't have time to listen to 5.1 on a regular basis, but a friend, who has similar tastes, has the whole set-up, so I have been able to check out a bunch on his system.  Some I really like, some not-so much.  Maybe I just have trouble getting past how I am used to hearing it, but it sometimes feel like too much liberty is taking in separating stuff and altering certain little things that added a lot of charm to the original releases.

[Orbert]

I don't like it when the mess with the original mixes, but the added depth is almost always welcome.

As for music, I'm sure surround sound is great, but I would imagine to really enjoy it, I'd have to be sitting in the sweet spot of a room.

Not really.  It's all about separation, spreading the music around in two dimensions rather than just across one.  You don't have to sit in the middle somewhere to hear and feel the music filling the room from all sides.  In fact, when I first set things up in our living room, the unusual geometry of the room combined with the size and shape of our entertainment center meant that the front left and right speakers are not symmetrically arranged.  The front left is on top of the unit, while the front right is to the side.  But the center channel is right under the TV screen, and centers things very nicely.

A pleasantly surprising consequence of this arrangement is that the music is actually more 3-D than mere 2-D.  The left is also higher Z, the right is lower Z, presenting left-right and high-low coverage.  The rears are symmetrical, the center anchors everything, and the sub of course is nondirectional.  Also, this minimizes the need to stay near the Y-axis.  The couch is centered, but my chair is to the left of the center.  With the front left up high, I'm nearly equidistant from the fronts, so left-right balance is fine, and again there's generally a much greater spreading around of the sound.  Even when I'm just listening to a regular CD or the radio, the stereo effect is greatly enhanced; there is greater separation than mere left-right.

TL; DR version:  No.  Any room can benefit from 5.1 if you arrange things properly.

[jammindude]

Also pg...   Steven Wilson is the leader of Porcupine Tree (now gone solo) but it’s not his music we’re addressing here.  His talents as a mixer producer are now world renowned.   I believe one of his first producer credits that made him famous was Blackwater Park by Opeth.    But now he’s in high demand doing remastered/remixes of classic albums by Jethro Tull, King Crimson, Yes, Marillion and others and I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone say that he didn’t breathe new life into the original product.   

[KevShmev]

I got two of SW's XTC 5.1's a few months back and they sound great.  I had a few quibbles, but overall he did an outstanding job.