Rush v. Dirk, Pratt, & Lerxst

[Big Hath]

something like this I guess.  Honestly the group from 2-15 is so close it doesn't really even make sense to rank them.  I know what is first and last and that is about it.  The quality of this discography is just ridiculous.

1. Moving Pictures

2. Permanent Waves
3. Hemispheres
4. Power Windows
5. 2112
6. A Farewell To Kings
7. Signals
8. Grace Under Pressure
9. Counterparts
10. Hold Your Fire
11. Presto
12. Roll The Bones
13. Fly By Night
14. Test For Echo
15. Vapor Trails

16. Clockwork Angels
17. Caress Of Steel
18. Rush

19. Snakes & Arrows

[Polarbear]

I agree that the quality of their discography is just insane. They were one of the most consistent bands of all time! Couldn't do a Rush album ranking, even if I had a gun pointed at my head.

But my top contenders for the number 1 spot would be: Moving Pictures, Permanent Waves, Grace Under Pressure and Power Windows.

[Phoenix87x]

I couldn't rank them if my life depended on it. I love almost every album and they all satisfy different moods.

[pg1067]

Why not?

1. Hemispheres
2. Moving Pictures
3. Permanent Waves
4. A Farewell to Kings

5. Signals
6. 2112

7. Fly By Night

8. Presto
9. Caress of Steel

10. Snakes and Arrows
11. Vapor Trails
12. Rush
13. Test for Echo
14. Clockwork Angels
15. Power Windows

16. Counterparts
17. Grace Under Pressure
18. Hold Your Fire

19. Roll the Bones

P.S. I think I did this before in this thread, and I'm sure this list is different.  This time, I grouped albums together in situations where the order could be different depending on my mood on a given day.

[King Postwhore]

1. Power Windows
2. Moving Pictures
3. Permanent Waves
4. Hemispheres
5. 2112
6. A Farewell To Kings
7. Counterparts
8. Signals
9. Grace Under Pressure
10. Clockwork Angels
11. Presto
12. Vapor Trails
13. Hold Your Fire
14. Fly By Night
15. Roll The Bones
16. Test For Echo
17. Snakes & Arrows
18. Caress Of Steel
19. Rush

[Stadler]

P.S. I think I did this before in this thread, and I'm sure this list is different.  This time, I grouped albums together in situations where the order could be different depending on my mood on a given day.

Me too; I'm tempted to do it again, but I'm afraid it will be different.

[pg1067]

P.S. I think I did this before in this thread, and I'm sure this list is different.  This time, I grouped albums together in situations where the order could be different depending on my mood on a given day.

Me too; I'm tempted to do it again, but I'm afraid it will be different.

You've got nothing to fear but fear itself.

[Orbert]

The Rankings
Part V of Fear

[ytserush]

I'm a pretty big prog fan, but honestly I think Rush are at their best writing 4-6 minute songs rather than huge prog epics. I like 2112 as much as the next guy (or more, or less, I don't really know how the next guy feels about any particular Rush song to be honest), but it's got some sections that I think are pretty weak, or just forgettable. Whereas Roll The Bones is just quality songs all the way through.

I think that's a fair assessment. I don't think I would rank Roll The Bones (at least the studio versions) as one of my favorite Rush albums, but there are six songs (live) from that album I think are arguably as good as the six songs from Permanent Waves.

[ytserush]

I agree that the quality of their discography is just insane. They were one of the most consistent bands of all time! Couldn't do a Rush album ranking, even if I had a gun pointed at my head.

That's always been my view.

[Stadler]

I agree that the quality of their discography is just insane. They were one of the most consistent bands of all time! Couldn't do a Rush album ranking, even if I had a gun pointed at my head.

That's always been my view.

I don't think that's inaccurate, but I wouldn't say they are unique in that way.   Maybe once you factor in the number of albums.   But they DO have duds, at least relatively (S/T, p/g).   I'd put Zeppelin's catalogue up against them, as well as Genesis and Aerosmith.  Certainly the Beatles, The Cars, Iron Maiden, and AC/DC.   For me, since I like Tony Martin, maybe even Sabbath.   

The problem is, of course, many of those other bands have more frequent lineup changes.

[Lethean]

But they don't at all have duds.  The self titled, for me, is the weakest one, but still not a dud, and a lot of fans would rank it much higher.  And Grace Under Pressure is one of their best.

But I agree that there are other bands who don't have duds. Most of the ones I'm thinking of don't have as many albums as Rush, but DT is certainly one for me.

[The Walrus]

But they don't at all have duds.  The self titled, for me, is the weakest one, but still not a dud, and a lot of fans would rank it much higher.  And Grace Under Pressure is one of their best.

But I agree that there are other bands who don't have duds. Most of the ones I'm thinking of don't have as many albums as Rush, but DT is certainly one for me.

We may disagree on certain other bands, but this is where we totally agree. 

[Lethean]

But they don't at all have duds.  The self titled, for me, is the weakest one, but still not a dud, and a lot of fans would rank it much higher.  And Grace Under Pressure is one of their best.

But I agree that there are other bands who don't have duds. Most of the ones I'm thinking of don't have as many albums as Rush, but DT is certainly one for me.

We may disagree on certain other bands, but this is where we totally agree. 

And obviously since we do agree, someone else who might happen to live in CT is sadly mistaken...

There's something else we agree on as well.  Maybe I should post about it in the appropriate thread... 

[Stadler]

But they don't at all have duds.  The self titled, for me, is the weakest one, but still not a dud, and a lot of fans would rank it much higher.  And Grace Under Pressure is one of their best.

But I agree that there are other bands who don't have duds. Most of the ones I'm thinking of don't have as many albums as Rush, but DT is certainly one for me.

We may disagree on certain other bands, but this is where we totally agree. 

And obviously since we do agree, someone else who might happen to live in CT is sadly mistaken...

There's something else we agree on as well.  Maybe I should post about it in the appropriate thread...

You're all wrong.  Wrong, wrong, wrong.   You're so wrong, you're almost right again.  Wrong.

[pg1067]

But they don't at all have duds.  The self titled, for me, is the weakest one, but still not a dud, and a lot of fans would rank it much higher.  And Grace Under Pressure is one of their best.

But I agree that there are other bands who don't have duds. Most of the ones I'm thinking of don't have as many albums as Rush, but DT is certainly one for me.

We may disagree on certain other bands, but this is where we totally agree. 

And obviously since we do agree, someone else who might happen to live in CT is sadly mistaken...

The gentleman from Connecticut is quite right about GUP.  The drumming is weak.  The guitars and most of the keyboards are harsh and tinny.  The mix has way too much high end.  The Enemy Within and Between the Wheels are above average to really good.  Kid Gloves and DEW are solid.  The rest is just bleh (particularly The Body Electric).  I will say that the album had some potential, which is evidenced by how much better Red Sector A sounds in recent live versions.  Stronger guitar tones and keyboard patches might have given us a much less disappointing album.

I went through this in quite a bit of detail a few months ago:  https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=33827.msg2378435#msg2378435

[The Walrus]

The Body Electric freaking rocks. Take it back! 

[Lethean]

I don't really care about any of those things, except I disagree that the drumming is weak, but I may be the exception on that.  I just don't care about "the mix."  What's important to me are the songs, and they're all either very good or great.  Including The Body Electric.

[pg1067]

The Body Electric freaking rocks. Take it back! 

If only they could take it back!  Absolutely a bottom 10 Rush song (not that I care to rank bad songs).

I just don't care about "the mix."

I can't understand this.  The mix is one of the most significant facts in how an album sounds.  It's how the instruments are balanced.  A good mix can't really make bad songs good, but a bad mix sure can ruin songs that might otherwise be good.  Compare the mixes on Moving Pictures and GUP, and the importance of the mix becomes obvious.

[The Walrus]

The mix on those albums doesn't bother me either, but that's because they're from the early 80s. I just take them as '80s sounding albums' and to be honest I think the 80s sound works wonderfully on those albums... For me personally 'mix' only comes into question on modern albums that have no reason to sound tinny or muddy or all around poor, like DT's ADTOE. Or Vapor Trails. Vapor Trails had no excuse to sound that terrible at all.

I would be interested in hearing some dudes rerecord P/g with modern equipment if only to hear what it would sound like today.

Also I think P/g is better than MP

[pg1067]

For me personally 'mix' only comes into question on modern albums that have no reason to sound tinny or muddy or all around poor, like DT's ADTOE. Or Vapor Trails. Vapor Trails had no excuse to sound that terrible at all.

Not sure what's wrong with ADTOE, but Vapor Trails was a mastering problem, not a bad mix.

I would be interested in hearing some dudes rerecord P/g with modern equipment if only to hear what it would sound like today.

I'll agree with that.

Also I think P/g is better than MP

 

[ProfessorPeart]

Can't pass up an opportunity to disagree with Stads!

I routinely view Grace Under Pressure as one of, if not, my favorite Rush record. Something about that album just speaks to me and I love it.

Considering how much I lean to a more hard rock/metal sound in my music, I'm even surprised by how much I just love that record.

[The Walrus]

For me personally 'mix' only comes into question on modern albums that have no reason to sound tinny or muddy or all around poor, like DT's ADTOE. Or Vapor Trails. Vapor Trails had no excuse to sound that terrible at all.

Not sure what's wrong with ADTOE, but Vapor Trails was a mastering problem, not a bad mix.

ADTOE is very heavy on mids; sounds like you're listening to it with a blanket thrown over the speaker. For a 2011 album, and given the band's history of great sounding albums, it's utterly baffling. Just my opinion though.

Also I think P/g is better than MP

 

 

[Polarbear]

Can't pass up an opportunity to disagree with Stads!

I routinely view Grace Under Pressure as one of, if not, my favorite Rush record. Something about that album just speaks to me and I love it.

Considering how much I lean to a more hard rock/metal sound in my music, I'm even surprised by how much I just love that record.

Maybe it's my nostalgia glasses talking since P/g was the first Rush album I heard, but it's still one of my favorites from the band!

Red Sector A, Distant Early Warning and The Enemy Within, are all supremely epic songs!

[Lethean]

I just don't care about "the mix."

I can't understand this.  The mix is one of the most significant facts in how an album sounds.  It's how the instruments are balanced.  A good mix can't really make bad songs good, but a bad mix sure can ruin songs that might otherwise be good.  Compare the mixes on Moving Pictures and GUP, and the importance of the mix becomes obvious.

And likewise - I don't understand those for whom it matters enough to ruin an album for them. There might be an occasion where I wish the drums were a little louder or the vocals, etc, and I guess that's me talking about the mix without calling it that, but in the end, it doesn't change my feeling on the album.  I have absolutely no problem with Grace Under Pressure, and it doesn't sound worse to me than Moving Pictures.  But even if it did - it wouldn't make it a worse album for that reason.  That would be just a separate category in my mind - album a is better, but album b sounds better. Let's take Vapor Trails, since pretty much everyone agrees that it's the worst sounding Rush album.  I like it better than the self titled.  When I'm comparing the two as to which album I prefer, the mix doesn't enter into the equation at all.  The self titled might sound better, but I'll never rank it higher than Vapor Trails. 

It always baffles me when someone says an album is bad, and uses the mix, the production (which I used to see more often), or something similar as a reason why.

[jammindude]

GUP was my first “new” Rush album.   (I first heard Rush at a 6th grade graduation party just a few months before Signals was released...but it was just one song.  I wouldn’t hit full on Rush fanboi until mid-1983)

I played it to death when it first came out.   And yes, I even LOVE Red Lenses.   I think the word play is brilliant.   In retrospect, it hasn’t really aged very well.   I personally think the chorus for Body Electric is rather klunky.   But all in all, there’s not a bad song on the album.  But I would put The Enemy Within and The Body Electric as my least favorites. 

Aw heck....

Between the Wheels
Red Sector A
Afterimage
Distant Early Warning
Red Lenses
Kid Gloves
The Enemy Within
The Body Electric

[Stadler]

I just don't care about "the mix."

I can't understand this.  The mix is one of the most significant facts in how an album sounds.  It's how the instruments are balanced.  A good mix can't really make bad songs good, but a bad mix sure can ruin songs that might otherwise be good.  Compare the mixes on Moving Pictures and GUP, and the importance of the mix becomes obvious.

And likewise - I don't understand those for whom it matters enough to ruin an album for them. There might be an occasion where I wish the drums were a little louder or the vocals, etc, and I guess that's me talking about the mix without calling it that, but in the end, it doesn't change my feeling on the album.  I have absolutely no problem with Grace Under Pressure, and it doesn't sound worse to me than Moving Pictures.  But even if it did - it wouldn't make it a worse album for that reason.  That would be just a separate category in my mind - album a is better, but album b sounds better. Let's take Vapor Trails, since pretty much everyone agrees that it's the worst sounding Rush album.  I like it better than the self titled.  When I'm comparing the two as to which album I prefer, the mix doesn't enter into the equation at all.  The self titled might sound better, but I'll never rank it higher than Vapor Trails. 

It always baffles me when someone says an album is bad, and uses the mix, the production (which I used to see more often), or something similar as a reason why.

Believe it or not, I agree with you, for the most part.  Mix and mastering means squat to me; "Hotter Than Hell" by Kiss is a sonic mess but I love that album.

My beef with p/g is in the songwriting, the arrangement and the sound of the instruments.   I LOVE melody.  I like epic melodies like on Subdivisions, New World Man, Analog Kid, Marathon, and Manhattan Project.    I think "Kid Gloves" is a disjointed mess.  I think Red Lenses sounds forced>   And while Neal Peart is on my Mt. Rushmore of drummers, that fill on Red Sector A right before "I hear the sound of gunfire at the prison gates..." sounds SO FRIGGIN' LAME for a drummer of Neal's caliber...

I give that record a listen about three times a year just to see if things changed, and they never do....

[Stadler]

1. Hemispheres
2. A Farewell To Kings (I just bought the Sector box with the 5.1 mix... this is damn close to no. 1)
3. Moving Pictures
4. Signals
5. Presto
6. Fly By Night

7. Hold Your Fire
8. Power Windows
9. Feedback
10. 2112
11. Caress Of Steel

12. Permanent Waves
13. Snakes And Arrows
14. Counterparts
15. Clockwork Angels
16. Vapor Trails
17. Rush

18. Grace Under Pressure
19. Roll The Bones
20. Test For Echo

There are a lot of albums here that are virtual ties, but the groups are fairly indicative of the "tiers".   I do listen to almost all of them though; the only ones I never really listen to are TFE and the first record. 

[pg1067]

I just don't care about "the mix."

I can't understand this.  The mix is one of the most significant facts in how an album sounds.  It's how the instruments are balanced.  A good mix can't really make bad songs good, but a bad mix sure can ruin songs that might otherwise be good.  Compare the mixes on Moving Pictures and GUP, and the importance of the mix becomes obvious.

And likewise - I don't understand those for whom it matters enough to ruin an album for them. There might be an occasion where I wish the drums were a little louder or the vocals, etc, and I guess that's me talking about the mix without calling it that, but in the end, it doesn't change my feeling on the album.

The mix is just one of many reasons why GUP is not good (I hesitate to say "bad," but it's certainly not good).  If, for example, MP were mixed like GUP and we were comparing it to Hemispheres, then that might tip the scale toward Hemispheres, but I'd still love MP.  With GUP, there are many other reasons why I don't like it much.

GUP was my first “new” Rush album.   (I first heard Rush at a 6th grade graduation party just a few months before Signals was released...but it was just one song.  I wouldn’t hit full on Rush fanboi until mid-1983)

I'm a few years older than you, but I got into Rush around the same time (9th/10th grade for me).  I was first exposed to Subdivisions and Countdown, which were played on fairly regular rotation on MTV, and I had gotten pretty well into the back catalog by the time GUP was released.  Needless to say (given what I've already written here), it was a HUGE disappointment in pretty much every way, starting with that doofy picture on the inner sleeve (or was it the back cover?).

My beef with p/g is in the songwriting, the arrangement and the sound of the instruments.   I LOVE melody.  I like epic melodies like on Subdivisions, New World Man, Analog Kid, Marathon, and Manhattan Project.    I think "Kid Gloves" is a disjointed mess.  I think Red Lenses sounds forced>   And while Neal Peart is on my Mt. Rushmore of drummers, that fill on Red Sector A right before "I hear the sound of gunfire at the prison gates..." sounds SO FRIGGIN' LAME for a drummer of Neal's caliber...

Yes, yes and yes (also, "the sound of the instruments" is part of the mix, so....).

[Stadler]

Of the four "original" live albums:

1. Different Stages
2. Exit... Stage Left
3. All The World's A Stage
4. A Show Of Hands

[The Walrus]

Stadler, it's funny you mention you're a melody guy. I am, too, and yet I think P/g is great in that department!

Yes, yes and yes (also, "the sound of the instruments" is part of the mix, so....).

I don't think he's referring to the sound of the instruments in the mix, rather, the sound of the... instruments. As in, the keyboard patches, for example, not how they're mixed.

[Lethean]

And likewise - I don't understand those for whom it matters enough to ruin an album for them. There might be an occasion where I wish the drums were a little louder or the vocals, etc, and I guess that's me talking about the mix without calling it that, but in the end, it doesn't change my feeling on the album.  I have absolutely no problem with Grace Under Pressure, and it doesn't sound worse to me than Moving Pictures.  But even if it did - it wouldn't make it a worse album for that reason.  That would be just a separate category in my mind - album a is better, but album b sounds better. Let's take Vapor Trails, since pretty much everyone agrees that it's the worst sounding Rush album.  I like it better than the self titled.  When I'm comparing the two as to which album I prefer, the mix doesn't enter into the equation at all.  The self titled might sound better, but I'll never rank it higher than Vapor Trails. 

It always baffles me when someone says an album is bad, and uses the mix, the production (which I used to see more often), or something similar as a reason why.

Believe it or not, I agree with you, for the most part.  Mix and mastering means squat to me; "Hotter Than Hell" by Kiss is a sonic mess but I love that album.

My beef with p/g is in the songwriting, the arrangement and the sound of the instruments.   I LOVE melody.  I like epic melodies like on Subdivisions, New World Man, Analog Kid, Marathon, and Manhattan Project.    I think "Kid Gloves" is a disjointed mess.  I think Red Lenses sounds forced>   And while Neal Peart is on my Mt. Rushmore of drummers, that fill on Red Sector A right before "I hear the sound of gunfire at the prison gates..." sounds SO FRIGGIN' LAME for a drummer of Neal's caliber...

I give that record a listen about three times a year just to see if things changed, and they never do....

Yeah but that's because you're....




wrong.

 

I like melody too, which is probably why I've always had such a hard time getting into thrash.  Yes, there is melody, but not the same way as in, well, less thrashy stuff.  I think Grace Under I has great melodies.

[Stadler]

I'm a few years older than you, but I got into Rush around the same time (9th/10th grade for me).  I was first exposed to Subdivisions and Countdown, which were played on fairly regular rotation on MTV, and I had gotten pretty well into the back catalog by the time GUP was released.  Needless to say (given what I've already written here), it was a HUGE disappointment in pretty much every way, starting with that doofy picture on the inner sleeve (or was it the back cover?).

Brother, yes!  I love the front cover (one of my favorite covers by any band ever) but that back picture...  when I got into Rush, it was all...


And then with p/g it was all...


Consider, too, that I was huge into Maiden then, so it was all...


And so, no bueno.

[pg1067]

I'm a few years older than you, but I got into Rush around the same time (9th/10th grade for me).  I was first exposed to Subdivisions and Countdown, which were played on fairly regular rotation on MTV, and I had gotten pretty well into the back catalog by the time GUP was released.  Needless to say (given what I've already written here), it was a HUGE disappointment in pretty much every way, starting with that doofy picture on the inner sleeve (or was it the back cover?).

Brother, yes!  I love the front cover (one of my favorite covers by any band ever) but that back picture...  when I got into Rush, it was all...


And then with p/g it was all...


Consider, too, that I was huge into Maiden then, so it was all...


And so, no bueno.

Exactly.  I had that top picture on a poster on my bedroom closet (along with a Maiden poster with a shot from the World Piece Tour...and a Samantha Fox poster on the inside of my bedroom door  ).

[Lethean]

This may, partly, explain why you're so wrong about Grace Under Pressure.  It's not really that you don't like the melodies, you just think you don't because that picture influenced you negativity and got into your head.