Rush v. Dirk, Pratt, & Lerxst

[The Letter M]

But even in the last 20 years of their career, they played no less than 6 of the POW tracks over various tours!

7 of 8 actually!   Emotion Detector is the only one not to get played in the 21st century.

  You're right. I wasn't too sure off the top of my head if it was 6 or 7, which why I said "no less than 6", just to be safe, and 7 isn't less than 6, so I covered my bases! 

Sadly, "Emotion Detector" fell into the album-only trap that few songs were in up to that point, because until HYF, there was always at least ONE song they didn't play live on tour (with few exceptions, such as Hemispheres and GUP).

-Marc.

[KevShmev]

I get why Emotion Detector was never played.  That one is very keyboard-heavy, in a more electronic way.  I don't think it would have translated well live. 

[Mladen]

That's possible.

We'd probably agree that Emotion detector is our least favorite song on the album, but that it's still very good.

[The Walrus]

I want to say that Geddy and Alex are wrong for hating Tai Shan. It's a good song. Kind of odd in the context of HYF but a good song. I like it...

[Architeuthis]

The bass line in Emotion Detector during Alex's solo is off the charts good!

[pg1067]

Some really good Rush discussion over the past week.

I envy anyone discovering Rush or any other band with a huge back catalog.  I remember doing that back in the 80s and how great it was to have discussions like, "you think AFTK is good, wait until you hear Hemispheres!"

I don't remember what my first exposure was to Rush.  It might have been seeing the videos for Countdown and Subdivisions on MTV.  To this day, I seem to love Countdown more than just about anyone else and will always be bummed that I never got to see it live (my first Rush concert was on the P/G tour).

I think Signals was the first album I bought (via the Columbia Record & Tape Club), and I remember being disappointed with some of the tracks like Digital Man and The Weapon.  I later fell in love with Digital Man, but I wasn't ready at that time for the reggae flavor.  The Weapon is, IMO, the weakest track on Signals, and I HATED the live bit on the P/G video.

I worked my way backward through the first eight albums, and that was such a great time.  Hemispheres is a perfect album (albeit not long enough).  AFTK is underrated IMO -- especially the title track (a tour de force for Alex) and Cinderella Man.  I find myself skipping Closer to the Heart and Madrigal most times I listen to it.  The Exit Stage Left version of CttH is MILES better than the studio version (and one of the few songs that doesn't suffer from the poor mix on ESL).  The ESL version of La Villa also slays (although the guitar on some of the early parts after the intro gets lost in the mix).  Permanent Waves and Moving Pictures are albums I can listen to over and over without getting tired of anything I hear.  I can never decide which I like better

The first four albums are a bit of a mixed bag.  Back in the day, I thought 2112 was perfect.  Nowadays, I rarely listen to side 2.  Side 1 of Caress of Steel is good (although I Think I'm Going Bald is a dud).  Fly By Night is extremely strong (only Rivendell gets skipped).  The debut album is spotty, but the high points more than make up for the low points.

Unfortunately for me, the first albums Rush released after I became a fan were mostly bottom of the barrel works.  I tried to like the "synth era" stuff, but to no avail.  In retrospect, I probably like more of P/G than either Power Windows or Hold Your Fire.  Manhattan Project and Marathon are the only two songs I listen to off PW anymore.  Side two was and is terrible.  Between the Wheels is a mostly neglected gem in Rush's catalog.  Distant Early Warning still holds up reasonably well, and Kid Gloves is pretty good.  The rest of P/G ranges from tolerable (Afterimage) to what-were-they-thinking garbage that should have been left on the cutting room floor (The Body Electric and Red Lenses).  I'll admit that some of the recent live versions of Red Sector A have been pretty good.  Hold Your Fire is just awful, with Mission and Time Stand Still being the only songs I ever listen to anymore.

Presto was a huge improvement.  Available Light is the single most underrated song in Rush's catalog, and The Pass and Red Tide are very strong.  On the other hand, Presto contains two of Rush's absolute worst songs ever:  Scars and Hand over Fist.  I'll stop there for now.

[The Walrus]

That's interesting. I'm listening to Hold Your Fire now and love this record... it's no Power Windows but man, this is good stuff! I love it!

[Architeuthis]

I really like HYF. It's not conducive to the average Rush fan, but it has a great atmosphere to it and it is more of an easy listening Rush album.
 My fave tracks are of course Time Stand Still, Second Nature, and Mission. Prime Mover and Turn The Page are cool too!  Oh,,, and how did I forget Lock and Key!?!? Great song..

[TAC]

Lock And Key is indeed awesome.

[Mladen]

I spent many years really disliking Hold your fire aside from several tracks, but most of it finally clicked last winter. I still don't care about Mission and Turn the page, I find them slightly overrated, but most of the others are really good. Even Tai Shan has some interesting ideas.

[fadetoblackdude7]

I really wanted to hear Prime Mover on the R40 tour, woulda been the perfect time to break it out. Alas, it did not happen. Still had a killer setlist though!

[Imaginos]

My mom is a huge Rush fan, and Hold Your Fire is the album I remember her playing most when I was a kid. I've definitely got a soft spot for that album, Force Ten and Time Stand Still still kind of remind me of being a kid.

[Lethean]

I love Force Ten.  I think Hold Your Fire is a great album - I just prefer the other three from that era over it.  I really like all of Rush's eras and styles and my favorites change all the time and aren't limited to the the early prog stuff vs the 80s stuff vs the 90s, etc.  It's all great.  (I gotta say though, Stadler's totally wrong about Grace Under Pressure).

[Lethean]

That was a spectacular sit-down between Ged and Dan. Highly recommend that any fan seek that out and watch it.

I have to admit that, as a Chicagoan, I geeked out when Ged specifically attributed his love of baseball to watching my Cubbies on WGN while traveling the US.

Little hints of, maybe, an album and tour at some point down the road. He made it pretty clear that it would not be Rush. Says he is constantly writing and laying down riffs and ideas.

Interview was OK. Nice to see Ged enjoying life. Wish I could see the raw unedited footage. No surprises for me other than to see Ged get a bit defensive at the end.  That usually doesn't happen.

It's great people are liking the interview.

What do you mean by him getting defensive?  I didn't get that from him at all.  I took it for him being a little emotional that Rush won't be touring again.

[Snow Dog]

It took a long time for me to finally “get” Hold Your Fire, previously viewing it as “Rush lite.”  But with repeated listening, it finally hit me. Neil’s lyrics are great, Alex’s texturing guitar work adds a whole other layer, and this album is Geddy’s best for allowing his bass work to shine. I even finally came to appreciate Tai Shan and High Water, though I’d argue the record would be stronger without both of them and just end in Turn the Page. Favorite tracks would be Open Secrets, Prime Mover, and especially Lock and Key (the track that finally got this album to click with me).

[The Walrus]

I love Force Ten.  I think Hold Your Fire is a great album - I just prefer the other three from that era over it.  I really like all of Rush's eras and styles and my favorites change all the time and aren't limited to the the early prog stuff vs the 80s stuff vs the 90s, etc.  It's all great.  (I gotta say though, Stadler's totally wrong about Grace Under Pressure).

He totally is.

[Stadler]

I love Force Ten.  I think Hold Your Fire is a great album - I just prefer the other three from that era over it.  I really like all of Rush's eras and styles and my favorites change all the time and aren't limited to the the early prog stuff vs the 80s stuff vs the 90s, etc.  It's all great.  (I gotta say though, Stadler's totally wrong about Grace Under Pressure).

He totally is.

I just talked to him; he's not. 

[Lethean]

I love Force Ten.  I think Hold Your Fire is a great album - I just prefer the other three from that era over it.  I really like all of Rush's eras and styles and my favorites change all the time and aren't limited to the the early prog stuff vs the 80s stuff vs the 90s, etc.  It's all great.  (I gotta say though, Stadler's totally wrong about Grace Under Pressure).

He totally is.

I just talked to him; he's not. 

Oh, he's finally come around then, eh? Realizes how great it is and therefore is no longer wrong. Good deal. 

[Stadler]

That was a spectacular sit-down between Ged and Dan. Highly recommend that any fan seek that out and watch it.

I have to admit that, as a Chicagoan, I geeked out when Ged specifically attributed his love of baseball to watching my Cubbies on WGN while traveling the US.

Little hints of, maybe, an album and tour at some point down the road. He made it pretty clear that it would not be Rush. Says he is constantly writing and laying down riffs and ideas.

Interview was OK. Nice to see Ged enjoying life. Wish I could see the raw unedited footage. No surprises for me other than to see Ged get a bit defensive at the end.  That usually doesn't happen.

It's great people are liking the interview.

What do you mean by him getting defensive?  I didn't get that from him at all.  I took it for him being a little emotional that Rush won't be touring again.

I didn't at all get "defensive" from him at any point in the interview.   He was open, honest, and answered every single question - to the extent that it was HIS to answer (and that's important) - with thought and insight.   Look, I get that the impression is "Dan Rather doesn't know dick about Rush", but I would argue that.  Rather is a HUGE music fan, and while his tastes run "country", he is very aware of what's going on, plus he has a gaggle of researchers.  He - and Geddy - both know he has to ask the future plans question, both for journalistic integrity and to throw a bone to Geddy and let him promote what he needs to promote (in this case, his coffee table book, it seems).   

[The Walrus]

You should listen to P/g more (hey, I'm in the acronym club now!), because it does, in fact - and I can prove this mathematically - a) rock, and b) rock hard.

[Lethean]

That was a spectacular sit-down between Ged and Dan. Highly recommend that any fan seek that out and watch it.

I have to admit that, as a Chicagoan, I geeked out when Ged specifically attributed his love of baseball to watching my Cubbies on WGN while traveling the US.

Little hints of, maybe, an album and tour at some point down the road. He made it pretty clear that it would not be Rush. Says he is constantly writing and laying down riffs and ideas.

Interview was OK. Nice to see Ged enjoying life. Wish I could see the raw unedited footage. No surprises for me other than to see Ged get a bit defensive at the end.  That usually doesn't happen.

It's great people are liking the interview.

What do you mean by him getting defensive?  I didn't get that from him at all.  I took it for him being a little emotional that Rush won't be touring again.

I didn't at all get "defensive" from him at any point in the interview.   He was open, honest, and answered every single question - to the extent that it was HIS to answer (and that's important) - with thought and insight.   Look, I get that the impression is "Dan Rather doesn't know dick about Rush", but I would argue that.  Rather is a HUGE music fan, and while his tastes run "country", he is very aware of what's going on, plus he has a gaggle of researchers.  He - and Geddy - both know he has to ask the future plans question, both for journalistic integrity and to throw a bone to Geddy and let him promote what he needs to promote (in this case, his coffee table book, it seems).

I felt the same way about it. I didn't know anything about Dan Rather's taste in music but I don't think it matters at all to this interview. He asked really open questions and let Geddy take as long as he wanted to answer them.

[Stadler]

I love Force Ten.  I think Hold Your Fire is a great album - I just prefer the other three from that era over it.  I really like all of Rush's eras and styles and my favorites change all the time and aren't limited to the the early prog stuff vs the 80s stuff vs the 90s, etc.  It's all great.  (I gotta say though, Stadler's totally wrong about Grace Under Pressure).

He totally is.

I just talked to him; he's not. 

Oh, he's finally come around then, eh? Realizes how great it is and therefore is no longer wrong. Good deal. 

No, that ain't it.   I do a token listen to p/g about once a year just to see if I'm missing something; ironically, I think I've listened to that album more than all the other "synth era" albums combined, except for Signals (which I love!).   I just can't get past the sterility of the record. I know, I know, artistic choice, but there are too many places where the drum sound just takes it from "artistic color" to I don't know what.  The fills in particular; there's a fill right before "I hear the sound of gunfire at the prison gates..." and it should be legendary Neil rolling thunder into the section, but it's not.  I miss that.   It was on Signals, and it (largely) came back on Power Windows, so those records are stunning (though I don't like side two of PW as much as some here seem to).   

I'm even going to listen to Signals ==> Test For Echo this weekend if I have a chance, to revisit the progression (though I got them in real time, so I'm aware of the progression).  But I wasn't huge into prog at that point; I was bigger into Maiden and heavier stuff, plus revisiting the catalogues of bands like Genesis and Crimson and Sabbath. 

[jingle.boy]

I love Force Ten.  I think Hold Your Fire is a great album - I just prefer the other three from that era over it.  I really like all of Rush's eras and styles and my favorites change all the time and aren't limited to the the early prog stuff vs the 80s stuff vs the 90s, etc.  It's all great.  (I gotta say though, Stadler's totally wrong about Grace Under Pressure).

He totally is.

I just talked to him; he's not. 

I'm sure you could present a counter-point to him though.   

I gotta say, Kattelox, I’m kinda envious of you discovering Rush for the first time. Wish I could get that initial excitement again listening through their catalogue. It’s been fun reading your reactions to each album.

[Architeuthis]

Stadler, I see your point about the drum fill leading into "I hear the sound of gunfire at the prison gates". Being that it was done on a eighties electronic kit didn't help it. Even the bass lines were done on the keyboards for that song.  I like the song and recording, but it would be interesting to hear that song re-done with acoustic drums and a real bass guitar.

[KevShmev]

I actually do think that the studio version of Red Sector A is a bit too stiff, but live it absolutely slays.  The bass pedals and electronic drum parts are too integral to the song to be replaced.

That is probably the one Rush song that I always reach for the live version (the A Show of Hands version). 

[The Walrus]

I want to watch some live Rush concerts... are they all available on DVD these days? I took a break yesterday to give Hold Your Fire some more time, and I may get to Presto today, but this weekend I want to watch some live Rush so I may take a trip to some local record stores in search of them. Specifically the ones up to Presto, I don't want to get ahead of myself. Friend of mine showed me the live video of Territories from, I believe, A Show of Hands, and that was so damn good...

[TAC]

I'd recommend Replay X3
https://www.amazon.com/Rush-Replay-DVD-Box-Set/dp/B000FDFOX0/ref=sr_1_6?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1510320147&sr=1-6&keywords=Rush

It has the Exit Stage Left DVD, a Grace Under Pressure show, and A Show Of Hands DVD.

[The Walrus]

Thanks TAC!! 

[Architeuthis]

Great choice, that three concert box set is awesome!

[Lowdz]

It took a long time for me to finally “get” Hold Your Fire, previously viewing it as “Rush lite.”  But with repeated listening, it finally hit me. Neil’s lyrics are great, Alex’s texturing guitar work adds a whole other layer, and this album is Geddy’s best for allowing his bass work to shine. I even finally came to appreciate Tai Shan and High Water, though I’d argue the record would be stronger without both of them and just end in Turn the Page. Favorite tracks would be Open Secrets, Prime Mover, and especially Lock and Key (the track that finally got this album to click with me).

Their last great album for me. I realise many don’t agree 😀

[KevShmev]

Great choice, that three concert box set is awesome!

Yep, I agree with that choice as well.  Great selection of songs throughout those three live DVDs, and Geddy's voice is still in prime condition.

[Architeuthis]

I actually do think that the studio version of Red Sector A is a bit too stiff, but live it absolutely slays.  The bass pedals and electronic drum parts are too integral to the song to be replaced.

That is probably the one Rush song that I always reach for the live version (the A Show of Hands version).

Indeed!  Also, check out the live version of Red Sector A on the Clockwork Angels DVD/blu-ray, it is incredible!  Ohh the light show that goes with it is the best one of all,, please go back and check it out..

[KevShmev]

The light show for that song was always awesome, for sure. 

Not to beat a dead horse about Geddy's voice, but it is tough to get through most songs on the Clockwork Angels Live DVD.  Plenty of live versions out there from when Geddy's voice still sounded great live!

[TAC]

I never bothered to get the CA DVD, I don't think, but the vocals on R40 are unlistenable.

[jingle.boy]

I never bothered to get the CA DVD, I don't think, but the vocals on R40 are unlistenable.

Not sure I would call them that.  Once I accepted that his voice was changing, I adapted my ability to enjoy their performances.  Naturally, Ged's voice declined a shit-ton faster the rest of the talent in the band, so I just adjusted my standard of enjoyment for the vocals.