Rush v. Dirk, Pratt, & Lerxst

[jammindude]

Snakes & Arrows > Vapor Trails, all songs

This is pretty close for me.   Though I would put Ghost Rider in a tie with Workin Them Angels.  Same with Freeze and MN....possibly even giving Freeze the outright win.

[The Letter M]

How would a Counterparts VS Test For Echo match-up do around here? Just curious because TFE gets a lot of flak from fans, but I know there are some TFE-fans around here. Unfortunately, the instrumentals are at different track numbers, so they won't really go head-to-head here.

Animate vs Test For Echo - Both are good but CP's opener gets the slight edge here.

Stick It Out vs Driven - TFE's second track has always been a fave of mine, even though I like SIO, just not as much as Driven.

Cut To The Chase vs Half The World - CTTC has always been on my wish-list for them to play live, definitely a fave from CP.

Nobody's Hero vs The Color Of Right - Just love NH a lot more, and I wish they had brought it back when they were doing acoustic-versions of songs, a la "Resist".

Between Sun And Moon vs Time And Motion - Draw. I like bits about both, but there's bits of both I don't like so much, so I can't really pick a clear winner here.

Alien Shore vs Totem - AS gets the clear win here.

The Speed Of Love vs Dog Years - TSOL isn't DY, so that's why it wins.

Double Agent vs Virtuality - DA is just a great song and I wish they'd bring it back to the live stage!

Leave That Thing Alone vs Resist - Great instrumental, one of my favorites on the whole album.

Cold Fire vs Limbo - Draw. I like "Limbo" a LOT (even took the time to properly transcribe the piece for the Rush Tab Project), but CF has some good moments, so I can't really pick here.

Everyday Glory vs Carve Away The Stone - EG just sounds better as an album closer here, and I've never really cared much for CATS.

CP - 8
TFE - 1
Draw - 2

Before even typing this up, I knew CP would win as it's been a favorite of mine for ages since becoming a Rush fan, and I doubt that would ever change, although over the years, I've grown to appreciate TFE a lot more than I initially did.

These match-ups are fun, and maybe someone can jump-start a HYF-vs-RTB one.....

-Marc.

[jammindude]

I'll play that one.

Animate vs. Test For Echo

Animate is a great album opener.  Even thought TFE will win as an album, I confess CP's opening tracks is a slight edge above.

Stick It Out vs Driven

This isn't even close.  I never cared for Stick it Out that much.  Sounds like the guys were just trying WAY to hard to sound relevant during the grunge movement.  Honestly one of their worst singles.   Driven is amazing.   Better structure, better riff, better lyrics, better chorus, better vocals....Driven destroys the competition here.

Cut To the Chase vs. Half the World

This is a draw.   CttC is a highlight from an otherwise uneven album, and Half the World really should have been a hit single.  The only time I've heard Rush write a pop song that really shined in every aspect.

Nobody's Hero vs. The Color of Right

Nobody's Hero was nice at first, but really has not aged well at all.   Too soapbox-y and repetitive.   Alex's main riff on TCoR and that beautiful chorus win this one.

Between the Sun and Moon vs. Time and Motion

Really don't get the hate for Time and Motion.   It's got the dark atmosphere of Double Agent, but with better vocals and a much better bridge.  This song give TFE the best first 5 tracks of nearly their entire catalog.   Between the Sun and Moon is a bit of a joke.   Worst chorus in Rush history.   Yes...even worse than Countdown and Dog Years.   THE....WORST.

Alien Shore vs Totem

CP bounces back with this song.   Alien Shore is a fantastic piece and easily one of my favorites from the entire era.   Totem is one of two songs on TFE that I don't really care for that much.

The Speed of Love vs Dog Years

And Dog Years is the other one.   Speed is just ok...but it's far better than the dud track that is Dog Years.

Double Agent vs Virtuality

Double Agent is kinda cool, but I don't think Geddy pulls off the spoken word thing very well.   Virtuality, in spite of the dated lyrics, is one of the most killer riffs Alex has ever written. 

Leave That Thing Alone vs Resist

These are both great tracks, but the passion of Geddy's vocals in Resist give it the edge. 

Cold Fire vs Limbo

Love Cold Fire.   Limbo is fun....Cold Fire is funner.

Everyday Glory vs Carve Away the Stone

It's ironic now looking at it that CP wins the opener and the closer.   But TFE is easily the better album.   I still love Carve, but there's no denying that Everyday Glory is a stronger closer.

I'm actually shocked in looking back over it that it's a dead heat. 

Counterparts - 5
Test for Echo - 5
Tie - 1

I still say that TFE is the far stronger album.  There are only 2 skip tracks on TFE (Totem and Dog Years) whereas CP has several (Stick it Out, Nobody's Hero, Between the Sun and Moon and The Speed of Love...which only won because it wasn't Dog Years)

[TAC]

J-Dude, I disagree with your entire post!
Counterparts mops the floor with TFE!

[KevShmev]

Yep, I think CP wins every battle for me, except maybe the tracks 2 and 6 battles, but even those are pretty close.  Test for Echo is not a bad album, but it's their least best.

[TAC]

I will also say that I am kind of shocked with the results of the VT/S&A battle. All I've ever heard around here was how bad VT is (granted most criticism is geared to the sound) and how great S&A is. I thought most of you guys loved S&A.

[KevShmev]

I don't love S&A as much as I did when it first came out, but I still like it a lot.  Having said that, if I had to do an updated Rush studio album ranking, both VT and S&A would both be in the 14-16 range, which says more about how strong most of their other albums are, really.  Presto, TFE and Rush are always the bottom 3, while the Big 5, CP, CA and Power Windows are top 8, and then ranking the 9-16 ones is always tough.

[ytserush]

I'd still put up Vapor Trails, Snakes and Arrows and Clockwork Angels up against any other three in the cannon.

Other than the live albums, I've noticed I listen to those (and Geddy's solo album) more than anything else over the last 15 years.

[Nick]

Animate vs Test For Echo - Counterparts, like Presto, suffered from the two singles being the two worst songs on the disc, particular Superconductor and Stick it Out. On the flip side, T4E and Driven are amazing, and bludgeon to death their competition.

Stick It Out vs Driven

Cut To The Chase vs Half The World - Not much to say about these next few match ups, except it's a bunch of very good or great songs against a slab of okay material from T4E.

Nobody's Hero vs The Color Of Right

Between Sun And Moon vs Time And Motion

Alien Shore vs Totem

The Speed Of Love vs Dog Years

Double Agent vs Virtuality - For whatever reason I've always had a soft spot for Virtuality. I can understand why some would write if off much like the rest of the album, but I've always really enjoyed it.

Leave That Thing Alone vs Resist - This was the toughest match of them all. Really love the instrumental, but Resist is just a tad better.

Cold Fire vs Limbo - Another instrumental I love, but Cold Fire is... well... Cold Fire.

Everyday Glory vs Carve Away The Stone - Actually a tough match, as I very much enjoy Carve Away the Stone.

7-4 in favor of Counterparts, as expected. Test For Echo starts much stronger, but quickly becomes an album of mostly alright songs. Counterparts has by far a better overall song quality.

[romdrums]

Cool idea, here's my take on Vapor Trails v. Snakes and Arrows:

One Little Victory v. Far Cry: As a drummer, hearing Neil kick off the Vapor Trails record with that groove made me happy.  However, I feel Far Cry is the better overall song.

Ceiling Unlimited v. Armour and Sword: I like the tempo of Ceiling Unlimited.  Armour and Sword seems to just plod along.

Ghost Rider v. Working Them Angels: Ghost Rider and it's not even that close.

Peaceable Kingdom v. The Larger Bowl: Neither one really does much for me, but I like Peaceable Kingdom just a little bit more.

The Stars Look Down v. Spindrift: I really like Alex's guitar work on Spindrift.

How It Is v. The Main Monkey Business: How It Is is a solid track, but I really like the different moods of The Main Monkey Business.

Vapor Trail v. The Way The Wind Blows: I like both tracks, but the verses in The Way The Wind Blows are some of my favorite moments from Snakes and Arrows.

Secret Touch v. Hope: I'll take cool little acoustic interludes for 500 please, Alex.

Earthsine v. Faithless: Faithless's lyrics really resonate with me, while Earthshine's verse melody is nails on a chalkboard to my ears.

Sweet Miracle v. Bravest Face: Kinda the same thing aren't they?  Sweet Miracle has a better overall mood.

Nocturne v. Good News First: Nocturne is a cool track, if maybe underrated?

Freeze v. Malignant Narcissism: Love both, but Freeze is my favorite track from Vapor Trails.

Out of the Cradle v. We Hold On: I like both tracks, but We Hold On wins it for me.

Score: Vapor Trails-6, Snakes and Arrows-7.  Seems about right.

[King Postwhore]

Nick, The Speed Of Love is not a good song.  At least Dog Years is a fun song.

[romdrums]

And my take on Counterparts v. Test For Echo:

Animate v. Test For Echo: Neil's drumming on Test for Echo wins it here.

Stick It Out v. Driven: Stick It Out has a decent riff, but Driven is the far better song.

Cut to the Chase v. Half the World: Like others have said, Cut to the Chase would be great to see live.

Nobody's Hero v. The Color of Right: Listening to Counterparts yesterday, Nobody's Hero has not aged well.  The Color of Right is a solid example of Rush's pop sensibilities.

Between Sun and Moon v. Time and Motion: Time and Motion is the clear winner for me here.  I like some of the drum breaks on Between Sun and Moon, but the band performance on Time and Motion is solid.

Alien Shore v. Totem: This is a tough battle.  Alien Shore is a great rocker, while Totem is another solid pop track. 

The Speed of Love v. Dog Years: Dog Years has a great intro riff, but that's about it.  The Speed of Love is a nice change of pace on Counterparts.

Double Agent v. Virtuality: Double Agent in a landslide.

Leave That Thing Alone v. Resist: I've never been a huge fan of Leave That Thing Alone, while Resist is one of my favorite Rush ballads.

Cold Fire v. Limbo: Dat intro riff.

Everyday Glory v. Roll Away the Stone: Everyday Glory is one of my all time favorite Rush tunes.

Score: Counterparts-6, Test For Echo-5.  Test for Echo has the better first half, while Counterparts finishes much stronger.

[jammindude]

I was just listening to my MPEG-4 files that I got with my purchase of ReDISCovered (the 40th Anniversary Vinyl re-release of the first album).   I was surprised that they weren't just remastered tracks, but an actual vinyl transfer!!!   You can hear it especially on the intro of Before and After.   

I actually like this quite a bit better than the CD Remaster!  Did they do this (include MPEG-4 downloads) with all the other vinyl re-releases?   If they did, I may have to buy them all again.   

[KevShmev]

I'd still put up Vapor Trails, Snakes and Arrows and Clockwork Angels up against any other three in the cannon.

Other than the live albums, I've noticed I listen to those (and Geddy's solo album) more than anything else over the last 15 years.

How long have you been a fan?  That could be mere burnout over the older stuff. 

Then again, I got into the band in 1991, yet I tend to listen to the synth era stuff the most, and it's been that way for a long time.  Not saying the synth era stuff dominates my Rush-listening time, but if there was an imaginary chart that could track what Rush songs and albums I've listened to the most over the years, Power Windows might very well be at the top of most plays.

[?]

Counterparts vs T4E:

Animate (I love both openers, but Animate is even more awesome)
Driven (I like Stick It Out, but Driven wins because of that cool main riff and Geddy's bass work)
Cut to the Chase (HTW is just alright and the lyrics are some of the least inspired Neil has written IMO, while CTTC is a great rocker)
Nobody's Hero (I'm pretty indifferent towards Color, but NH is beautiful)
Time & Motion (like both, but T&M appeals to me more)
Totem (my favorite song on Test vs my least fave on CP)
The Speed of Love (need I say anything about Dog Years? )
Double Agent (I like Virtuality, but those lyrics are horribly dated)
Resist (one of my all-time favorite songs lyrically)
Cold Fire (I just tend to prefer vocal songs to instrumentals)
Everyday Glory (another favorite of mine vs a pretty forgettable song and anticlimactic album closer)

Counterparts is one of my top 5 Rush albums, so I'm not surprised it won 7-4

Then again, I got into the band in 1991, yet I tend to listen to the synth era stuff the most, and it's been that way for a long time.  Not saying the synth era stuff dominates my Rush-listening time, but if there was an imaginary chart that could track what Rush songs and albums I've listened to the most over the years, Power Windows might very well be at the top of most plays.

Same here, although I got into the band just 2 years ago.

[ytserush]

I'd still put up Vapor Trails, Snakes and Arrows and Clockwork Angels up against any other three in the cannon.

Other than the live albums, I've noticed I listen to those (and Geddy's solo album) more than anything else over the last 15 years.

How long have you been a fan?  That could be mere burnout over the older stuff. 

Then again, I got into the band in 1991, yet I tend to listen to the synth era stuff the most, and it's been that way for a long time.  Not saying the synth era stuff dominates my Rush-listening time, but if there was an imaginary chart that could track what Rush songs and albums I've listened to the most over the years, Power Windows might very well be at the top of most plays.

Possibly, but the studio stuff just sounds so dated. But it really comes to life live as might be expected.

Didn't go full on geek until '84. Most of the older stuff has been played live already at some point so I just enjoy that. A larger percentage of recent material hasn't advanced to a stage so listening to the album is the only way I'm going to get it. I also think most of the recent material is stronger too.

[TAC]

Wow, that's amazing, John. You're obviously a big fan, so I know you don't say that lightly, but still...it does not compute!

[ytserush]

Wow, that's amazing, John. You're obviously a big fan, so I know you don't say that lightly, but still...it does not compute!

That's not a slam on the '70s either (That second set's been quite the trip so far too), I guess it's more of an evolving "big picture" kind of outlook. Or I've gone zen in my old age!

[TAC]

No, I think it's cool. CA was really strong, S&A,..well..it sounds good, and VT feels like the band was having fun, so I get it. I'm an old school Maiden fan and their last few albums easily rival their classic era.

[Setlist Scotty]

Thought I'd compare CP to T4E. CP is one of my favorites and T4E one of my least favorites, so I'm sure that CP will win, but let's see...

Animate v. Test For Echo: Love the bass in Animate, but it's not enough to beat T4E, IMO.

Stick It Out v. Driven: Not a big fan of either song, but I'm more likely to listen to Driven than SIO.

Cut to the Chase v. Half the World: Lyrically HtW is a great song but it's musically bland. CttC is my favorite on CP, so it wins automatically.

Nobody's Hero v. The Color of Right: NH is a decent song, but TCoR is just bland so NH.

Between Sun and Moon v. Time and Motion: Love TaM (probably my fave on T4E) and don't understand the appeal of BSaM.

Alien Shore v. Totem: AS by a long shot - such a great song with groove. Besides CttC, this is another tragedy in that it hasn't been played live. 

The Speed of Love v. Dog Years: draw - neither does anything for me.

Double Agent v. Virtuality: Double Agent by a mile - love the spoken verses. One I'd love to see them bring back live, except Geddy needs to do the spoken vocals live.

Leave That Thing Alone v. Resist: Probably the most difficult match up for me. But I'm a sucker for LTTA, so it wins.

Cold Fire v. Limbo: Tho not their greatest instrumental, I prefer it over CF.

Everyday Glory v. Carve Away the Stone: another draw. Rush has a tendency to close their albums on an odd note, IMO, and I usually don't like them. The Garden is great, but the last closing song I really like on a Rush album is Available Light. Neither of these does anything for me.

Score: Counterparts-5, Test For Echo-4. Honestly, I'm surprised that it wasn't more of a blowout than it turned out to be! Nonetheless, I'd go with CP over T4E any day of the week (sorry Ben AKA Jammindude)!

[TAC]

Scotty, I agree with a lot of what you say in that post, especially how they end albums on an odd note, but Everyday Glory mops the floor with Carve Away The Stone.

For me, given the song order, the only TFE tracks that take it are Driven and Time And Motion (which I love!). The title track is OK, but after that, I have no use for TFE.

[KevShmev]

How about the more fun game of comparing Signals vs. Grace Under Pressure vs Power Windows, by ranking them, and then adding the totals for each album (the lower the number, the better).

Track 1
1. Subdivisions
2. Distant Early Warning
3. The Big Money

Track 2
1. Grand Designs
2. The Analog Kid
3. Afterimage

Track 3
1. Red Sector 'A'
2. Manhattan Project
3. Chemistry

Track 4
1. Marathon
2. The Enemy Within
3. Digital Man

Track 5
1. Territories
2. The Weapon
3. The Body Electric

Track 6
1. Middletown Dreams
2. Kid Gloves
3. New World Man

Track 7
1. Losing It
2. Emotion Detector
3. Red Lenses

Track 8
1. Between the Wheels
2. Mystic Rhythms
3. Countdown

Totals:
Power Windows - 13
Grace Under Pressure - 17
Signals - 18

Sounds about right, since Power Windows is clearly my favorite of the three, with me slightly preferring P/G to Signals.

[CharlesPL]

Counterparts vs T4E:

Test For Echo
Driven
Time and Motion
Totem
Resist
Carve Away the Stone


Cut to the Chase
Nobody's Hero
The Speed of Love
Double Agent
Cold Fire

T4E wins 6-5, but i prefer Counterparts

[TAC]

How about the more fun game of comparing Signals vs. Grace Under Pressure vs Power Windows, by ranking them, and then adding the totals for each album (the lower the number, the better).

Great idea!


Track 1
1. Subdivisions
2. Distant Early Warning
3. The Big Money

Track 2
1. The Analog Kid
2. Afterimage
3. Grand Designs

Track 3
1. Manhattan Project
2. Red Sector A
3. Chemistry

Track 4
1. Marathon
1. The Enemy Within
1. Digital Man

Tough choice. They all get a 1.

Track 5
1. Territories
2. The Weapon
3. The Body Electric

Track 6
1. New World Man
2. Middletown Dreams
3. Kid Gloves

Track 7
1. Losing It
3. Emotion Detector
3. Red Lenses
Last two get 3's. They suck!

Track 8
1. Between the Wheels
2. Mystic Rhythms
3. Countdown

Totals:

Signals-13
Power Windows -16
Grace Under Pressure-17

[CharlesPL]

Track 1
1. Subdivisions
1. Distant Early Warning
1. The Big Money

Can't decide

Track 2
1. Grand Designs
2. Afterimage
3. The Analog Kid

Track 3
1. Chemistry
2. Red Sector A
3. Manhattan Project

Today's selection

Track 4
1. Marathon
2. Digital Man
3. The Enemy Within

Track 5
1. Territories
1. The Weapon
1. The Body Electric

Track 6
1. Middletown Dreams
2. New World Man
3. Kid Gloves

Track 7
1. Losing It
2. Emotion Detector
3. Red Lenses


Track 8
1. Between the Wheels
2. Mystic Rhythms
3. Countdown

Totals:

Power Windows -12
Signals -14
Grace Under Pressure-16

[jammindude]

Track one:

1. Subdivisions
2. Distant Early Warning
3. The Big Money

Track two:

1. Analog Kid
2. Grand Designs
3. Afterimage

Track three:

1. Manhattan Project
2. Red Sector A
3. Chemistry

Track four:

1. Marathon
2. The Enemy Within
3. Digital Man

Track five:

1. Territories
2. The Weapon
3. The Body Electric

(take note...this one was almost impossible.  Territories and The Weapon went head to head and they are literally my two favorite songs from the entire era)

Track six:

1. Middletown Dreams
2. Kid Gloves
3. New World Man

Track seven:

1. Losing It
2. Red Lenses
3. Emotion Detector


Track eight:

1. Between the Wheels
2. Mystic Rhythms
3. Countdown

Signals - 17
Grace Under Pressure - 17
Power Windows - 14

Another interesting thing is that Signals has three #1's, Power Windows has four...GUP only has one, but still managed to tie Signals.

[KevShmev]

Great interview with Alex and Geddy that I saw on the Rush forum.  Pics are taken from the classic rock mag:

[Lucien]

Track 1
1. Subdivisions
2. The Big Money
3. Distant Early Warning

Track 2
1. Grand Designs
2. Afterimage
3. The Analog Kid

Track 3
1. Red Sector 'A'
2. Manhattan Project
3. Chemistry

Track 4
1. Marathon
2. The Enemy Within
3. Digital Man

Track 5
1. The Body Electric
2. Territories
3. The Weapon

Track 6
1. Middletown Dreams
2. New World Man
3. Kid Gloves

Track 7
1. Emotion Detector
2. Losing It
3. Red Lenses

Track 8
1. Mystic Rhythms
2. Between the Wheels
3. Countdown

Totals:
Power Windows - 11
Grace Under Pressure - 17
Signals - 20

unsurprised

[jammindude]

What's the second number??

[Lucien]

What's the second number??

oh

the second numbers were my actual rankings since I was too lazy to cut and paste

now it's fixed

[The Letter M]

Sure, I'll bite. This will be fun. Power Windows is my fave album so we'll see how these matches fare...

Track 1
1. Subdivisions
2. Distant Early Warning
3. The Big Money

Track 2
1. The Analog Kid
2. Grand Designs
3. Afterimage

Track 3
1. Manhattan Project
2. Red Sector 'A'
3. Chemistry

Track 4
1. Marathon
2. Digital Man
3. The Enemy Within

Track 5
1. Territories
2. The Weapon
3. The Body Electric

Track 6
1. Middletown Dreams
2. Kid Gloves
3. New World Man

Track 7
1. Losing It
2. Emotion Detector
3. Red Lenses

Track 8
1. Between the Wheels
2. Mystic Rhythms
3. Countdown

Signals - 16
Grace Under Pressure - 19
Power Windows - 13

Seems about right. I've always had a harder time getting into GUP than the other two.

What's next, Rush vs Fly By Night? Or 2112 vs A Farewell To Kings vs Permanent Waves? Or go back and do Hold Your Fire vs Roll The Bones?

- Marc.

[tedesco23]

Kev, thanks for posting that interview. Great read!

[Zydar]

Kev, thanks for posting that interview. Great read!

Yeah, great read indeed. Thanks!

[?]

Track 1
1. Distant Early Warning
2. Subdivisions
3. Big Money

Track 2
1. Afterimage
2. Grand Designs
3. The Analog Kid

Track 3
1. Manhattan Project
2. Red Sector A
3. Chemistry

Track 4
1. Marathon
2. Digital Man
3. The Enemy Within

Track 5
1. The Weapon
2. The Body Electric
3. Territories

Track 6
1. Middletown Dreams
2. Kid Gloves
3. New World Man

Track 7
1. Losing It
2. Emotion Detector
3. Red Lenses (one of the worst Rush songs ever IMO)

Track 8
1. Mystic Rhythms (top 5 material for me )
2. Between the Wheels
3. Countdown

PoW - 18
P/G - 16
Signals - 14

Power Windows is one of my top 5 albums, so no surprises here. While Signals doesn't have as many highs as GUP, I think it's a little more consistent, thanks to not including Red Lenses.

[Setlist Scotty]

I'll give it a shot. PoW is one of my favorites, so let's see how it stacks up against the others...

Track 1
1. Subdivisions
2. Distant Early Warning
3. The Big Money

Track 2
1. The Analog Kid
1. Afterimage
1. Grand Designs

Track 3
1. Red Sector A
3. Chemistry
3. Manhattan Project
not big on either Chemistry or MP

Track 4
1. Marathon
2. The Enemy Within
3. Digital Man

Track 5
1. Territories
2. The Weapon
3. The Body Electric

Track 6
1. Middletown Dreams
2. New World Man
2. Kid Gloves

Track 7
1. Losing It
2. Emotion Detector
3. Red Lenses

Track 8
1. Between the Wheels
2. Mystic Rhythms
2. Countdown

Totals:
Power Windows - 14
Signals - 15
Grace Under Pressure - 15

Wow! definitely closer than I would've expected, but I guess it's kinda like my CP vs T4E choices. In the end, I think my #1 choices on PoW are stronger than on the other albums, and the #3 choices on it are not as weak as on the other albums. Only way I can explain this. But in any case, I do like all 3 albums - I just like PoW more!