Rush v. Dirk, Pratt, & Lerxst

[Mosh]

Good writeup. I also really enjoyed the new 2112. It was almost like hearing the album for the first time again.

[ytserush]

I finally watched/listened to 2112 Five Point One over the weekend.  I had read some reviews of it, so the relatively conservative use of the surround channels was expected, but still somewhat disappointing.  I had hoped that the few reviews I'd read (before I stopped reading them) were exaggerated due to the reviewers being disappointed, but they really weren't.  The presentation is similar to that of a movie which is dialogue-heavy.  The vast majority of the soundstage is in the fronts, with the rears/surrounds used only for some ambience from time to time.  Not really a very immersive experience, but I don't think that that was what they were going for.  It was simply an artistic choice (by Richard Chycki, by the way).

I do recall a few times when I heard guitar parts and/or percussion coming from corners of the room where I don't even have speakers.  This of course was achieved by mixing partway between the left front and rear, or right front and rear, with the apparent location of the sound somewhere in between.  That was nicely done.  I suppose that if the effect were used too much, it would become tedious, but overall I prefer a more immersive experience from 5.1 music.  This is practically a stereo mix with just a little extra space maybe 10% of the time, 20% tops.  So if you were expecting Neil's tom fills to wrap around the room or the layers of guitars spread around the room, you too will be disappointed.

What I was not expecting was the graphic novel which accompanied the story.  Actually, the entire album is accompanied by illustrated panels.  The "super deluxe" version contains a 40-page comic book, and I'm assuming that that is what we get to see here, synchronized to the album as it unfolds.  The "story notes" part of the title suite is included, which was nice, and the lyrics themselves appear in speech bubbles as spoken/sung by the characters.  "2112" was done pretty well, with most of the story laid out pretty much as I'd imagined it in my head.  The only real deviation was "Discovery" which I found interesting, but ultimately the artist's interpretation didn't make much sense to me.

Once the title suite was over, I was somewhat surprised that "Side Two" of the album was also illustrated, so that was cool.  It was a huge task in the first place, so I shouldn't really harp on the shortcuts taken by the graphic artist, but by the end it was downright distracting.  Most of "Something for Nothing" was a single illustration with the lyrics added as they came up in the song.  Each song had a somewhat different feel, which was cool, and it's possible that that was just how the artist had envisioned the song, but since it was the last song on the album, it had the effect of seeming like he was just tired or out of time and used a huge shortcut at the end.

Overall, it was great.  While the surround was not as immersive as I would have liked, hearing 2112 in 96kHz / 24-bit PCM on my home theater system, very loudly (no one else was home) was worth the price, and the graphics only added to the experience.

My only reason for getting this was the live versions of A Passage To Bangkok and Overture/The Temples of Syrinx from the 1980 and 1981 tours respectively.


I'll go into further detail if needed, but I did NOT like any of the art/graphics package at all with this release.

[Orbert]

What did you think of the surround mix?

[ytserush]

What did you think of the surround mix?

I'm not really a home theater guy so I can't really say, but they've (Geddy and Alex anyway) have gone on record at the beginning of the 5.1 foothold that they were only in favor of subtle enhancements on the older material. (Which wouldn't bother me as it is their vision)

I'm going to assume based on your experience that that remains true.

The big downer for me was the revisionist packaging (Why would you want to change such an iconic album cover?) I was informed that Dark Side of the Moon had been changed around 10 or so years ago, but I'm going to assume it went the way of new Coke since I haven't seen that change recently.

I wasn't impressed with the artist who did the comic book either. I suppose it's nice to see something while your listening and I'm not against that but.....well let's just say I wished Hugh Syme was involved.

But those three live tracks are golden (Overture and Temples in particular) so I needed to have this regardless.

[Orbert]

I figured that the conservative surround mix had to have been approved by the band, but I didn't realize that they had specifically told Chycki to go that way (which I assume happened, since that's what we got).  It seems like a missed opportunity to me, but as I said, it was an artistic choice; this is what they wanted.

I guess that because it's "trendy" these days to remix important albums in 5.1 that I expected more.  I've got some Genesis, ELP, even Elton John, in 5.1, and it's pretty impressive.  The new packaging here (more on that in a second) seemed to indicate that this was a whole new experience.  The surround mix, the graphic novel unfolding, the awesome audio quality.

But the surround was far from immersive, the graphic novel was interesting once, but I don't think I'm going to bother with it again, and that pretty much leaves the better sound quality (which was nice) and new cover, so overall I'm not sure if it was really worth the price.  Yeah, there's the extras, which I haven't even checked out yet, come to think of it.  But those could easily have been put on a "regular" remix/remaster as bonus stuff.

I was informed that Dark Side of the Moon had been changed around 10 or so years ago, but I'm going to assume it went the way of new Coke since I haven't seen that change recently.

I remember seeing CDs with basically the original cover art, except that the triangle (pyramid, prism) was solid grey.  I have no idea why anyone would have considered that better, or why they felt the need to change it at all.  I believe it had to do with the 40th Anniversary of the album, but that's still messed up.  You celebrate how awesome something is by changing it?

Same thing here.  Where the hell is the red star?  I figured that this is just a slipcover, and I'd pull it off to reveal the original cover, "remastered" (cleaned up and awesome looking) cover art but no.  This is it.  I too was disappointed.

[snowdog]

I guess that because it's "trendy" these days to remix important albums in 5.1 that I expected more.  I've got some Genesis, ELP, even Elton John, in 5.1, and it's pretty impressive.  The new packaging here (more on that in a second) seemed to indicate that this was a whole new experience.  The surround mix, the graphic novel unfolding, the awesome audio quality.

I've got the Genesis catalog in 5.1 as well as ELP's Brain Salad Surgery.  The two were done in completely different ways.  The mix on BSS is drastically different.  I'm hearing things I never heard before (which isn't a bad thing) but they also seemed to add or change their effects on the album as well.  The Genesis stuff is a new mix for sure, but not so much so that it sounds completely different like BSS did.  I think both approaches are OK.  I know Banks specifically didn't want it to go so far away from the original.

[Ruba]

Happy 61st Birthday Neil! 

I spend last night listening to songs from HYF, Presto, RTB and Counterparts. Man, I had forgotten how many great songs there are on that era!

[Orbert]

I guess that because it's "trendy" these days to remix important albums in 5.1 that I expected more.  I've got some Genesis, ELP, even Elton John, in 5.1, and it's pretty impressive.  The new packaging here (more on that in a second) seemed to indicate that this was a whole new experience.  The surround mix, the graphic novel unfolding, the awesome audio quality.

I've got the Genesis catalog in 5.1 as well as ELP's Brain Salad Surgery.  The two were done in completely different ways.  The mix on BSS is drastically different.  I'm hearing things I never heard before (which isn't a bad thing) but they also seemed to add or change their effects on the album as well.  The Genesis stuff is a new mix for sure, but not so much so that it sounds completely different like BSS did.  I think both approaches are OK.  I know Banks specifically didn't want it to go so far away from the original.

In general, I prefer merely remastering, not remixing, whether the final product is 5.1 or 2.0.  Clean it up, get rid of the noise if possible, but leave the mix itself alone.  There's a reason why some parts are quieter than others.  The one example I always think of is in the song "Heathaze" by Genesis (from Duke).  There's a beautiful, quiet harpsichord line that leads us into the chorus.  On the new version, it's much louder, brought to the fore, and totally ruining the effect.  There's no subtlety.  You could hear the line before, there was no reason to make it "Check this out!  It is now much louder so you can hear how awesome it is!"  It's not that kind of awesome.

Anyway, by cleaning up the master and spreading the soundstage across 5.1 channels rather than 2.0, you will have much greater separation, and you'll hear parts you didn't hear before anyway.  You will probably also appreciate things more when you hear all the work and all the layers of music that went into it.  That's what I want to hear.  There's no reason to mess with the mix.

I have ELP's first two albums, but haven't found Brain Salad Surgery in 5.1, which is from a different (and older) series.  I still want to check it out, but thanks for the warning.

[jammindude]

I personally thought the Genesis box sets  AND their respective 5.1 mixes were SO well done that it made me instantly frustrated that every prog rock band in history didn't do something *exactly* like it.   These boxed sets (and their 5.1 mixes) should have been the model for the Signal boxed sets.  (which I still havn't heard a single review of how FBN, AFTK or Signals turned out)

What I loved about them was what someone hinted at earlier....they ARE remixed, and they utilize every bit of the 5.1 effect...but it is also tastefully done and faithful to the original.

[Orbert]

Different strokes, then.

To me, changing the mix and being faithful to the original are almost (though not quite) contradictory.  There's a lot of layering and a lot of subtlety in Genesis music.  It's great to hear it all nice and clear, but as I said, there's a reason why some parts are softer or louder than others.  That's why it's called a mix.  If you just push everything to 10 so everyone can hear everything, it's not a mix.

Okay, to be fair, he (Nick Davis) didn't do it a lot.  Most of the time, it's very subtle.  But there were a few times that jumped out at me and it was enough to ruin the experience for me.  I recently sold my Genesis 1976-1982 box on eBay.  My favorite period of the band, but I wasn't going to listen to it, so I might as well turn a profit on it (which I did).

[jammindude]

To me, changing the mix and being faithful to the original are almost (though not quite) contradictory. 

I get that, and I actually agree.  But what I was trying to say is that (IMO) the Genesis mix struck the *PERFECT* balance.   

[jammindude]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



https://www.rushbackstage.com/rushbackstage/compact-discs/index.html

HEMISPHERES IS COMING OUT ON SACD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mosh]

Saw that on amazon a month or two ago, dunno if I'm interested. Hemispheres is my favorite album but I'm pretty happy with how my CD sounds (the old pressing, not the remaster). Would love to see a 5.1 mix though.

[snowdog]

As far as I'm aware, SACD is a dead format.  Finding a new player that actually plays the format is nearly impossible.  I still have something to play the few SACD I own but why not go to a newer format?  BR seems to be a superior format for that kind of thing.

[Nick]

Yeah, either release it as DVD-A or Blu-Ray, SACD is pointless.

[theanalogkid7]

Most high-end blu-ray players still play SACD.

From what I've read/heard over at the Counterparts Forum, the Counterparts and RTB SACDs were really good.  I'm really excited for this release! 

[ytserush]

I figured that the conservative surround mix had to have been approved by the band, but I didn't realize that they had specifically told Chycki to go that way (which I assume happened, since that's what we got).  It seems like a missed opportunity to me, but as I said, it was an artistic choice; this is what they wanted.

I guess that because it's "trendy" these days to remix important albums in 5.1 that I expected more.  I've got some Genesis, ELP, even Elton John, in 5.1, and it's pretty impressive.  The new packaging here (more on that in a second) seemed to indicate that this was a whole new experience.  The surround mix, the graphic novel unfolding, the awesome audio quality.

But the surround was far from immersive, the graphic novel was interesting once, but I don't think I'm going to bother with it again, and that pretty much leaves the better sound quality (which was nice) and new cover, so overall I'm not sure if it was really worth the price.  Yeah, there's the extras, which I haven't even checked out yet, come to think of it.  But those could easily have been put on a "regular" remix/remaster as bonus stuff.

The comments I was referring to were made long before before Snakes and Arrows, which I think was their first 5.1. As you said it doesn't seem that they changed their mind on the subject. One of the reasons was because they didn't want to overshadow the music, by adding a bunch of technical bells and whistles that showcase the format rather than the band. They didn't seem to have a problem with a little enhancement, but that's where the line is drawn I guess.


As far as the remix remastering thing goes....We're probably at the point now that anyone who really cares is going to buy the CDs so it makes sense for bands to put the original and remix in one package.  I think that's what Wilson did with the first ELP releases and Marillion also did with the Radiation reissue. different people prefer different things so that way everyone's happy.  As an example I have four copies of Close To The Edge (not even my favorite Yes album) and When Steven Wilson is done with his I'll have a fifth. Each one of them is different.



I don't preorder a lot of things, but I did Hemispheres more than a month ago.

 I hope it's as good as the Audio Fidelity Roll The Bones which I liked. I still don't know what to think about the Audio Fidelity Counterparts though. I may prefer the Atlantic remaster more.  At points it sounds good, but others it sounds off..... Leave That Thing Alone just sounds wrong to me.

[theanalogkid7]

As an example I have four copies of Close To The Edge (not even my favorite Yes album) and When Steven Wilson is done with his I'll have a fifth.

Wait.  Steven Wilson is doing a 5.1 mix of Close To The Edge?! How did I miss that?! That's awesomely fantastic!

[Orbert]

I guess I'm wondering why they even bother with a 5.1 mix when it's essentially 2.0 anyway.  I can understand not wanting the medium itself to outshine the music.  That's what the lossless 2.0 version is for.  But as you say, it's more common to release the 2.0 and 5.1 in the same package these days, so why not make the 5.1 actually a surround mix?

[Big Hath]

As an example I have four copies of Close To The Edge (not even my favorite Yes album) and When Steven Wilson is done with his I'll have a fifth.

Wait.  Steven Wilson is doing a 5.1 mix of Close To The Edge?! How did I miss that?! That's awesomely fantastic!

Oct 21 Release

https://www.burningshed.com/store/progressive/product/99/5002/ (CD/Blu-Ray)

https://www.burningshed.com/store/progressive/product/99/5001/ (CD/DVD-A)

[jingle.boy]

Well Happy Fucking Birthday to me!!!

CLOCKWORK ANGELS TOUR coming NOVEMBER 19[

AUDIO AND VIDEO RELEASES INCLUDE EPIC VERSIONS OF SONGS RARELY PERFORMED AND NEVER-BEFORE CAPTURED ALONGSIDE NEWLY REWORKED ARRANGEMENTS SPECIFICALLY FOR THE CLOCKWORK ANGELS TOUR;
BLURAY/DVD INCLUDES EXCLUSIVE BACKSTAGE TOUR DOCUMENTARY, SOUNDCHECK FOOTAGE, AND TOUR FILM OUTTAKES IN ADDITION TO THE 3 HOUR CONCERT FILM

Rush have unveiled details for their first new recording since being inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame earlier this year. On November 19th, “RUSH: CLOCKWORK ANGELS TOUR” will be released simultaneously via Anthem/Roadrunner Records on CD and the companion BLURAY/DVD on Anthem/Zoe Vision/Rounder.

“RUSH: CLOCKWORK ANGELS TOUR” was filmed and recorded last November at the American Airlines Arena in Dallas, Texas, during Rush’s highly successful Clockwork Angels Tour. The eleven month-marathon world tour crossed North America twice and ventured overseas to Europe in support of the band’s acclaimed 2012 studio release “CLOCKWORK ANGELS.”

In capturing the tour’s electrifying three hour set, “RUSH: CLOCKWORK ANGELS TOUR” pairs Rush classics (“Tom Sawyer,” “The Spirit Of Radio,” “2112″), with a nod to the 80′s Rush era (The Analog Kid,” “Territories,” “Subdivisions”) alongside newly reworked arrangements specifically for the tour featuring the Clockwork Angels String Ensemble (“Headlong Flight,” “YYZ,” “Red Sector A”). The string section marks the first time the trio has brought additional musicians on the road with them. To showcase their latest studio release, the epic set list also features nine tracks off “CLOCKWORK ANGELS.” Other highlights include tracks rarely performed and never before recorded live (“The Body Electric,” “Middletown Dreams”), in addition to three separate drum solos by the incomparable Neil Peart.

Beyond the incredible live performances, the DVD includes a 25-minute tour documentary titled “Can’t Stop Thinking Big”, featuring interviews with all 3 members, exclusive and behind the scenes footage, and offers a glimpse into the inner workings of the Rush tour machine and insight into the band members themselves. Other special features on the DVD include the trio of hilarious shorts created specifically for the tour as well as interviews and outtakes captured during their filming. Additional filmed sketches and a rare soundcheck performance of perennial favourite “Limelight” round out the exclusive offerings.

“RUSH: CLOCKWORK ANGELS TOUR” comes on the heels of Anthem/Atlantic’s September 30th release of “VAPOR TRAILS REMIXED,” a newly remixed version of the band’s 2002 album VAPOR TRAILS and 7-disc boxed set “THE STUDIO ALBUMS 1989-2007,” which features every studio album Rush recorded for Atlantic Records.

RUSH: CLOCKWORK ANGELS TOUR
Release date: November 19th
DVD (Anthem/Zoe Vision/Rounder)
CD (Anthem/Roadrunner Records)

Set One:
Subdivisions
The Big Money
Force Ten
Grand Designs
The Body Electric
Territories
The Analog Kid
Bravado
Where’s My Thing?/ Here It Is! (drum solo)
Far Cry

Set Two:
Caravan*
Clockwork Angels*
The Anarchist*
Carnies*
The Wreckers*
Headlong Flight*/ Drumbastica (drum solo)
Peke’s Repose (guitar solo)/Halo Effect*
Seven Cities of Gold*
Wish Them Well*
The Garden*
Dreamline*
The Percussor (I) Binary Love Theme (II) Steambanger’s Ball (drum solo)
Red Sector A*
YYZ*
The Spirit of Radio

Encore:
Tom Sawyer
2112

Bonus:
Limelight (soundcheck recording)
Middletown Dreams
The Pass
Manhattan Project*

*With the Clockwork Angels String Ensemble

SPECIAL FEATURES (BLURAY/DVD ONLY)
Can’t Stop Thinking Big (25 min tour documentary)
Behind The Scenes (featuring Jay Baruchel)
Outtakes
Interview With Dwush
Family Goy
Family Sawyer
The Watchmaker (intermission tour film)
Office Of The Watchmaker (closing tour film)

[Zydar]

Oh heck yes

[theseoafs]

Hell yes.  I hoped they were going to release a recording, given that I wasn't able to catch them on either leg of the tour.

[Lolzeez]

Heck yeah!

[The Letter M]

SO glad this is coming out, FINALLY, and in November! These fall releases are being staggered quite well...

Sept - LMR, Haken, Dream Theater, Moon Safari
Oct - Ayreon, Flying Colors, Big Big Train, The Flower Kings
Nov - Dream Theater, RUSH, and who knows what else...

Gives me a chance to pace out my pre-orders and make sure I have enough money for everything!

Cannot wait to get the super-duper ultra-special limited deluxe edition of Rush CAT, which will likely be 2 DVDs and 3 CDs (at least, I hope it'll be 3 CDs, with the 2nd CD being all of the Clockwork Angels material on one disc, and the rest of the 2nd set/encore/bonus tracks on the 3rd disc).

Hopefully there's a 5-Disc box set, but if not, I can settle with 2 separate purchases for the DVD and CD sets.

-Marc.

[philmcson]

Nov - Dream Theater, RUSH, and who knows what else...

Black Sabbath 

[jjrock88]

Awesome news!!

[Lucien]

This combined with the DT stream...

Too much... Oh, so much....

[Anguyen92]

YAAAAAAAAAAY!!!!!!!!

I am definitely purchasing this one.  The setlist looks awesome man, and I can't wait to hear it all.

[theanalogkid7]

I WAS AT THAT SHOW!!

I'm super stoked - that was a GREAT night, too.  I remember there being a few hiccups, like during Bravado where it seemed they kind of got out of time with each other, that I'll be interested to see how they are treated on the recording.  The CA stuff was KILLER as it was throughout the tour.

I'm REALLY excited about the special features, too!!  MAN IM TOO EXCITED TO TURN OFF THE CAPS LOCK!

[Big Hath]

I WAS AT THAT SHOW!!

ditto!  I just hope I'm not edited out after making the trailer that was released a few months back.

[The Curious Orange]

Yay!     I was wondering where this had got to - Starting to think they'd forgotten it!

[theanalogkid7]

I WAS AT THAT SHOW!!

ditto!  I just hope I'm not edited out after making the trailer that was released a few months back.

I was a little bit back, but i was on the floor, so I could be in it somewhere!! Haha!

[Lucien]

I just hope the live mastering is clear as power windows 

[Orbert]

I see (quite clearly) what you did there.