Rush v. Dirk, Pratt, & Lerxst

[The Walrus]

TAC, you are a nincompoop. Pardon my language.  How you can hear Power Windows and say there's a lack of catchy melodies baffles me. But I'll go track by track later and give my thoughts as to why it's their best.

[TAC]

So my post doesn't get lost at the bottom of the last page..

So, regarding Power Windows...…

I became a Rush fan in junior high 81-82. I was shocked when Signals came out. I was becoming a hard rock fan at this point. When Grace Under Pressure came out, I had zero interest in it. Rush was another band singing about the Cold War, nuclear war, whatever in 1984. I found it very unoriginal. Plus, as a hard rock fan, I just wasn't on board with their sound or their look.
Power Windows came out in the fall of my senior year, and I got nagged to go to the concert, which for whatever reason, I didn't think was all that great. I listened to my friend's Power Windows tape, and it was just so damned keyboardy.
I was knee deep into Iron Maiden, Dio, UFO during this period. Rush had no real appeal to me.

I did eventually come back to them after seeing the Hold Your Fire tour..


Let's all play a game, because I have obviously missed the boat. Can everyone tell me what I'm missing on Power Windows? I'd love if you could go song by song and tell me what it is that makes each song so special?

I'll start....

The Big Money
I find this song extremely average. I don't hate it, but the keyboards are too heavy on this. I've heard it a million times and while it would never make my 80's playlist, I can tolerate it.

Grand Designs
I feel like there's a decent song in here somewhere. But it just feels so buried under 1000 layers. I can feel the build in it, but it never gives me "that moment".

Manhattan Project
This is a song I really like, and one of 3 from this album that makes my Rush 80's Compilation CD. It has a lot of catchy parts. I like the vocals on this as well. The "flying out of the shockwave" part still gives me goosebumps. The keyboard solo that immediately follows that is really cool and textural. This is probably my favorite song on the album.

Marathon
Marathon is another really good song and the second of 3 to make my Comp CD. But I can't help but feel that had I not experienced it live, I might not have liked it as much. Still I don't have anything to complain about here.

Territories
The third song to make my Comp CD. When I was younger this was my favorite song on the album. It felt heavier than the rest. I still like it, but it hasn't aged as well as I had hoped, honestly. It's still good.

Middletown Dreams
Similar to Grand Designs, I feel like there's a good song in here. I definitely prefer it to Grand Designs though, and it has aged fairly well. I like the chorus and feel that it saves the song. I like the solo section, but I feel the climax just misses. I think it has to do with that bridge section between the solo and the ending chorus. Feels unnecessary to me and distracting. And except for Neil, the final "They live in Middletown"s lack some much needed oomph.

Emotion Detector
I'm sorry. Don't get it. At All.

Mystic Rhythms
This isn't a bad song, but I think the studio version is terrible. Too many keyboardy fills here and there. Like a menace mosquito. But the Show Of Hands version of this is amazing. Seeing and hearing the live version is 10 times better than the studio version.



All in all, Power Windows is sandwiched between two pretty flawed, but much more accessible albums in Grace Under Pressure and Hold Your Fire. To me, you can usually trace a path from one Rush album to another. They say they pushed the "long song" concept to the max with Hemispheres. Seems with Power Windows, they pushed the keyboard/technology thing to the max. Maybe it's the Hemispheres of its era. Perhaps it's a generational thing. I've seen people not care for Hemispheres. I think it's nothing short of amazing that they went from Hemispheres to Power Windows in just 8 years.

All I know is the lack of catchy melodies and the overboard keyboards make this album easily one of my 5 least favorite Rush albums.

[King Postwhore]

I don't get the melody part at all Tim.  This album is chalk full of melodies and hooks.

[TAC]

I don't get the melody part at all Tim.  This album is chalk full of melodies and hooks.

TAC, you are a nincompoop. Pardon my language.  How you can hear Power Windows and say there's a lack of catchy melodies baffles me. But I'll go track by track later and give my thoughts as to why it's their best.

So I presented my post as a jump off for discussion. And maybe I'm not explaining myself properly.

So I look forward to you guys giving me examples of what you are saying.


Take Big Money...maybe you guys are feeling hooks and melodies in it. I'll just say that while I don't hate the song, there's nothing or no part in it that grabs me.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Yeah, I don't get the lack of catchy melodies either. To me, Power Windows is about as catchy as Rush ever was.

Can't argue that there's a lot of keyboards, although personally I really like it.

[TAC]

See, I think compared to Hold Your Fire and Grace Under Pressure, I don't find Power Windows catchy at all.

[fadetoblackdude7]

Power Windows is definitely my favorite Rush album, and one of my top favorite albums of all time. As stated by others: Big soaring choruses, excellent hooks and arguably Neil’s best lyrics, some amazing arpeggiation and soloing from Alex. Geddy also has some of his standout bass lines (verses in TBM and the intro to Marathon). Just all-around superb songwriting.

[pg1067]

Let's all play a game, because I have obviously missed the boat. Can everyone tell me what I'm missing on Power Windows? I'd love if you could go song by song and tell me what it is that makes each song so special?

. . .

All in all, Power Windows is sandwiched between two pretty flawed, but much more accessible albums in Grace Under Pressure and Hold Your Fire.

On the last point, I go back and forth with how I rank GUP, POW and HYF, but they're all bottom third Rush albums for me.  However, I don't agree that GUP and HYF are any more accessible.  In fact, I'd say that GUP is probably the least accessible of the three because of its dark nature and awful production.  I also disagree that there's a lack of catchy melodies on POW (the chorus to Marathon is great in this regard).

As far as the songs, hearing The Big Money was such a letdown to people like me who were hoping the band would reverse course from the mistake that was most of GUP.  The production (of the whole album) is better than GUP, but the bad 80s electronic drums, Geddy's bass tone, and the prominence of the 80s keyboards doom the whole thing.

Grand Designs sounded much better when it was resurrected in 2012/13, but the album version is sterile, unfulfilling, and full of GUP-like keyboard blasts.

Manhatten Project is probably the second best song on the album -- particularly the "pilot of Enola Gay flying out of the shock wave" line.  But it's not on the same level and Rush's best songs.

Marathon is very much the standout.  The bass line is great, and that Wal tone that ruins most of the album isn't as obtrusive for whatever reason.

Side 2 is almost entirely rubbish.  I don't get the appeal of Territories AT ALL (musically speaking, and when the music falls flat, it can't be saved by even the best lyrics).  Emotion Detector and Mystic Rhythms are just awful.  Live versions of MR from the POW tour are no better.  The live versions from the Counterparts and R30 tours are better, but the source material is so lacking that it's hard to save.  My opinion of Middletown Dreams has changed a bit as a result of a recent listen.  If you listen to it on its own and not sandwiched between two of the band's worst songs of all time, it sounds a bit fresher, and it isn't marred to the excessive keyboards on most of the other songs.

[The Walrus]

I keep trying to re-type my thoughts on Power Windows but it's nothing but gushing. I just love that record so much, it's Rush's best. Every song, every melody is powerful and memorable and resonates with me. The melodies resolve strongly and move in a logical manner (the contour of the melodies generally sound like natural extensions of speaking to me) which is what helps gives them that catchiness. The synths - the tones they chose and the production and songwriting really shows how much they evolved since they began experimenting with them on Signals. These sound bigger, fuller, richer, and they command the direction of most of the songs. I personally really appreciate that but I'm biased because I play keyboards...

Geddy sounds excellent on every song. I love how energetic he is. Almost every vocal line is catchy - they captured lightning in a bottle on this one, they're so poppy but that's why they're so good. Territories? No shame, I love everything about that song and its dumb lyrics. The bass is groovy and that tension in the bridge leading to the chorus is addictive. The whole wide world, an endless universe... fuck! What a tune! The lyrical themes on the album appeal to me as well. Ruminations on nationalism, atomic bombs, money/greed/materialism, and whatever Grand Designs is about (dreams and ideals, forging your own way?), etc... just really good lyrics all around.

I love Mystic Rhythms, personally... Emotion Detector and Middletown Dreams are the two weaker tracks to me, but I still enjoy them a whole lot. It's just all the other songs are on such a higher level.

[KevShmev]

Wait, Territories has dumb lyrics??

Congrats. TAC no longer has the worst opinion in this thread.

[The Walrus]

Well, I hear a lot of people call them dumb lyrics, but I like them a lot... They usually refer to the 'better people, better food, and better beer!' part etc... Power Windows doesn't have a single thing on it I'd call bad or dumb myself, honestly.

[TAC]

When I talk about melodies, I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't find anything as catchy as the choruses to:
Distant Early Warning
After Image
The Enemy Within
Between The Wheels
Time Stand Still
The Mission
Lock And Key
Prime Mover
Turn The Page

[KevShmev]

Well, I hear a lot of people call them dumb lyrics, but I like them a lot... They usually refer to the 'better people, better food, and better beer!' part etc... Power Windows doesn't have a single thing on it I'd call bad or dumb myself, honestly.

Same here.

I cannot comprehend calling the lyrics to Territories dumb.  I was talking to a friend over the weekend about this and we agreed that that song just might have been Neil's lyrical masterpiece.

jammindude needs to get in here ASAP to back me up on this one.

[The Walrus]

When I talk about melodies, I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't find anything as catchy as the choruses to:
Distant Early Warning
After Image
The Enemy Within
Between The Wheels
Time Stand Still
The Mission
Lock And Key
Prime Mover
Turn The Page

That's interesting... The only one of those I think is catchy or memorable is Time Stand Still. Note that doesn't mean they're bad songs, but Time Stand Still is the only one I could hum or sing to myself repeatedly or just have stuck on my brain (in fact that happened just the other day at work!). Funny how tastes are.

[TAC]

It's funny how your tastes are. 

[KevShmev]

I actually think Marathon might have the catchiest chorus in Rush's entire history.

I got into the band thanks to some friends showing me the A Show of Hands VHS in the fall of '91.  The Big Money was the first song, which I thought was pretty cool, and then Marathon was second.  The entire song was awesome and I couldn't believe how majestic and glorious that chorus was.  That was the moment I was won over.

[TAC]

I actually think Marathon might have the catchiest chorus in Rush's entire history.

Sure, I have no problem with that opinion. But that's just one song.

[KevShmev]

I actually think Marathon might have the catchiest chorus in Rush's entire history.

Sure, I have no problem with that opinion. But that's just one song.

Right, one of eight songs, seven of which are nothing short of spectacular, and then an eight (Emotion Detector) which is very good as well. 

[The Walrus]

I actually do think Marathon is the single catchiest tune in their catalog.

TAC eats farts. 

[TAC]

I actually think Marathon might have the catchiest chorus in Rush's entire history.

Sure, I have no problem with that opinion. But that's just one song.

Right, one of eight songs, seven of which are nothing short of spectacular, and then an eight (Emotion Detector) which is very good as well.  :Coolio

But what makes them spectacular? I'm asking specifically.

[King Postwhore]

Each song has its melodic moments.  All uplifting.   Major keys or minor keys it all seems uplifting.

You weren't enamored with Middleton Dreams. The chorus "Dreams flow across the heartland
Feeding on the fires
Dreams transport desires
Drive you when you're down
Dreams transport the ones
Who need to get out of town" is so melodic and uplifting in it's melody, in it's meaning, in Geddy's singing.

This is just one example of so many.   I think what blinds you is the keyboards.   Your not allergic to them except in bands you followed through the years that added them. You don't like the sound, the style so you can't hear the melodies in them. Just a guess on my part.

[TAC]

I like the chorus to Middletown Dreams, and like I said above, it really saves the song.

The oversaturation of keyboards is the biggest turnoff for me to be sure, and it's like I have to fight through them to find the song, especially in a song like The Grand Design.

[King Postwhore]

So I think it's the keyboard melodies that you are missing.  It throws you off.

[TAC]

So I think it's the keyboard melodies that you are missing.  It throws you off.

I find it hard to connect with for sure.

And I don't think GUP and HYF are great albums by any stretch. I think they are both glorified EPs. But the songs I like on those albums I like a lot more than the songs I like on PW.

Yes, Manhattan Project is awesome, and Marathon is excellent.

[The Walrus]

Do you like the keyboards in Maiden, Tim? Just curious if there's a correlation here.

[King Postwhore]

Keyboards in IM isn't as prominent do that isn't the issue. He loves DT but the keyboards were three from the start.

[The Walrus]

Yeah but TAC strikes me as one of the guys who waved a pitchfork when Maiden introduced synths, so I'm also curious if my suspicions are correct   

[TAC]

Do you like the keyboards in Maiden, Tim? Just curious if there's a correlation here.

I don't have a problem with keyboards.

I have three equally favorite bands, and two of them..Dream Theater and UFO, have keyboards.

2112, Hemispheres, Permanent Waves, and Moving Pictures, especially Moving Pictures which has a huge amount of keyboards, are literally some of my favorite albums of all time.
Rush did not make music that appealed to me in high school. But I would also say that the 80's Era has aged greatly for me. I enjoy most of it. The album of the bunch that I enjoy the least is Power Windows.

To me, it's an extreme album, overwrought with keyboards and technological effects.

Yeah but TAC strikes me as one of the guys who waved a pitchfork when Maiden introduced synths, so I'm also curious if my suspicions are correct   

For the record...and I was listening to both 80's Iron Maiden and Rush in real time, I never cared for Powerslave. I thought Somewhere In Time was Iron Maiden's best and most interesting album when it was released. And I flat out have always loved Seventh Son.

[Stadler]

Are we talking how bad p/g is?  I'm in! 

I'm a big fan of Power Windows, though.  It's not perfect: four GREAT songs (The Big Money, Marathon, Manhattan Project (one of my favorite Neil lyrics), and Mystic Rhythms), two good songs (Grand Designs, Territories) and two that are just too reminiscent of everything I don't like about GUP (Emotion Detector, Middletown Dreams).

GUP - which I haven't listened to since Neil's passing, but which I usually give an annual listen to make sure it hasn't evolved in my perception - is just not what I look for in a Rush album.  (Though it is, in it's way, a tour de force for Alex). 

[Lethean]

If Kattelox is suggesting that those Grace Under Pressure songs aren't memorable, he's just as nuts as TAC is.

But TAC...

But what makes them spectacular? I'm asking specifically.

I don't know how anyone can really answer this.  People here have written novels about what makes song X so great, and when I listen to it, it's like "really?"  I doubt reading a similarly glowing review of Power Windows will suddenly convince you.

I'm not really good at detailed song reviews, but I'll add my thoughts.  But I guess I'll mention their playing up front, because it pretty much applies to every song.  The album is full of cool stuff; awesome bass lines, beautiful emotional playing from Alex, and of course, Neil.

I'll start....

The Big Money
I find this song extremely average. I don't hate it, but the keyboards are too heavy on this. I've heard it a million times and while it would never make my 80's playlist, I can tolerate it.

What makes this song so special for me is the energy.  Live, it seemed perhaps overplayed, especially on paper, but when they did play it live and I was in the audience, it felt like a wave of energy just went through the room.  Also, I'm pretty sure I heard the live version of this before the studio version - I don't think I necessarily felt that wave when listening at home to the live version, but maybe there was a little spark.  Either way, whenever I heard this song, studio version included, I always picture Rush on stage.  And smile.

Grand Designs
I feel like there's a decent song in here somewhere. But it just feels so buried under 1000 layers. I can feel the build in it, but it never gives me "that moment".

Hmm, maybe I can agree with you on the "moment" part, but it's not necessarily an issue for me.  Yes, there are lots of keyboards, but that's not a negative.  Alex has a nice solo.  There's an intensity to it despite the layers you mention.  I wouldn't put it as one of the best songs on the album, but still think it's a great song.

Manhattan Project
This is a song I really like, and one of 3 from this album that makes my Rush 80's Compilation CD. It has a lot of catchy parts. I like the vocals on this as well. The "flying out of the shockwave" part still gives me goosebumps. The keyboard solo that immediately follows that is really cool and textural. This is probably my favorite song on the album.

Yes!  Me too on the bolded.  This might be my favorite track on the album too, but it has some competition.  It doesn't seem like you need any convincing on this one.

Marathon
Marathon is another really good song and the second of 3 to make my Comp CD. But I can't help but feel that had I not experienced it live, I might not have liked it as much. Still I don't have anything to complain about here.

Well, you'll never know, because you can't go back and change that.  So why not just enjoy it?  For me, what makes this song so special is how uplifting it is.  But it's not at all saccharine. 

Territories
The third song to make my Comp CD. When I was younger this was my favorite song on the album. It felt heavier than the rest. I still like it, but it hasn't aged as well as I had hoped, honestly. It's still good.

What makes this song special is that it's like a little adventure.  The intro is super cool and feels like you're in for something great, and you are.  And yeah, it's a little heavier too, which is cool.

Middletown Dreams
Similar to Grand Designs, I feel like there's a good song in here. I definitely prefer it to Grand Designs though, and it has aged fairly well. I like the chorus and feel that it saves the song. I like the solo section, but I feel the climax just misses. I think it has to do with that bridge section between the solo and the ending chorus. Feels unnecessary to me and distracting. And except for Neil, the final "They live in Middletown"s lack some much needed oomph.

Oh now here we totally disagree.  I think the song has plenty of oomph - more wouldn't be right for this song.  I think Geddy does a fantastic job of conveying some desperation in his vocals too.  And that bridge section, to me, is perfect.  It reinforces the mood and then sets up the rest of the song and the final "drive you when you're down..."

Emotion Detector
I'm sorry. Don't get it. At All.

I don't think I'll be able to change your mind.  I wouldn't say it's one of the best songs on the album, and yet... there's something about it.  I'm really not sure how to explain.  The bass is super cool once again and Alex rules.

Mystic Rhythms
This isn't a bad song, but I think the studio version is terrible. Too many keyboardy fills here and there. Like a menace mosquito. But the Show Of Hands version of this is amazing. Seeing and hearing the live version is 10 times better than the studio version.

I heard all of these songs on A Show of Hands first, and I'm sure that colors my opinion.  If I think of this song, it's the A Show of Hands version I hear in my head.  But I've listened to the studio version recently, and either way, I think this is a great song.  Like Territories, what makes this song special is that is takes you some place.  The intro is so cool; it just has this different vibe and the "capture my thoughts, carry them away" line does just that.

All I know is the lack of catchy melodies and the overboard keyboards make this album easily one of my 5 least favorite Rush albums.

Let me just agree with everyone else - there are *plenty* of great melodies on this album.  And I'm not even saying it's one of my favorite Rush albums; it's not one of my least favorites, probably not one of my very favorites, but it's awesome.

[TAC]

Thank you Lethean, I appreciate that.

I joke about a lot of things, but I really wanted to have a discussion on this. And you did that. Seems we have a general agreement on most of it, it's just that you like it more.

To me, it took witnessing Marathon live to really appreciate it. And like you also mention the live version of Mystic Rhythms, which I agree with you, it is far more immediate and powerful live.

[KevShmev]

It's funny to think about Grace Under Pressure and how things would have turned out if Steve Lillywhite hadn't bailed, since it would have affected Power Windows as well.  If Lillywhite stays on, maybe Grace Under Pressure is better (and I like it a lot, but Side 2 could have been better), and maybe he sticks around for the next album, and we don't get Peter Collins coming to produce what turned out to be Power Windows.  I like the way it turned out, honestly.  Despite some flaws, Side 1 of P/G is killer, and Between the Wheels is great as well.

[TAC]

I just jumped on Spotify, and while I have R40, I never bothered getting the later live albums. I see that both Grand Designs and Middletown Dreams are on the Clockwork Angels Live album.


Listening to Grand Designs now, and it already sounds better than the Power Windows version. that is, except for the vocals..
The thing is, it ends, and I have no idea what I just heard..

[TAC]

Side 1 of P/G is killer, and Between the Wheels is great as well.

I completely agree.

[The Walrus]

I think they're memorable songs - they're good songs! - but I don't find them catchy in the way that a song like Grand Designs is. (There are other GUP songs I think are better and catchier than those TAC listed, personally)