Poll

What are the 3 best songs on Clockwork Angels?

Caravan
71 (12.2%)
BU2B
46 (7.9%)
Clockwork Angels
85 (14.6%)
The Anarchist
44 (7.6%)
Carnies
19 (3.3%)
Halo Effect
11 (1.9%)
Seven Cities of Gold
21 (3.6%)
The Wreckers
46 (7.9%)
Headlong Flight
87 (14.9%)
BU2B2
4 (0.7%)
Wish Them Well
16 (2.7%)
The Garden
132 (22.7%)

Total Members Voted: 199

Author Topic: Rush v. Dirk, Pratt, & Lerxst  (Read 490131 times)

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Offline The Walrus

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Re: Rush v. Dirk, Pratt & Lerxst
« Reply #3325 on: May 16, 2018, 05:33:18 PM »
Jammin is right that you shouldn't listen to the Test for Echo haters - it's a great album.  Counterparts is still better. :)

I agree with one of these things.  :biggrin:
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Offline TAC

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Re: Rush v. Dirk, Pratt & Lerxst
« Reply #3326 on: May 16, 2018, 06:47:56 PM »
Jammin is right that you shouldn't listen to the Test for Echo haters - it's a great album.  Counterparts is still better. :)

I agree with one of these things.  :biggrin:

Found it.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline The Walrus

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Re: Rush v. Dirk, Pratt & Lerxst
« Reply #3327 on: May 16, 2018, 07:01:10 PM »
 :rollin
From a Mega Man Legends island jamming power metal to a Walrus listening to black metal, I like your story arc.
"I don't worry about nothing, no, 'cause worrying's a waste of my time"

Online King Postwhore

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Re: Rush v. Dirk, Pratt & Lerxst
« Reply #3328 on: May 16, 2018, 07:07:25 PM »
Jammin is right that you shouldn't listen to Tim about Test for Echo haters - it's a great album.  Counterparts is still better. :)

I agree with one of these things.  :biggrin:

Found it.

FTFY
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Offline TAC

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Re: Rush v. Dirk, Pratt & Lerxst
« Reply #3329 on: May 16, 2018, 07:19:10 PM »
Aahh. OK..

I see it. ;D

would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Online King Postwhore

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Re: Rush v. Dirk, Pratt & Lerxst
« Reply #3330 on: May 16, 2018, 07:24:54 PM »
Indeed.

*Tips top hat*
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
"Oh, I am definitely a jackass!" - TAC

Offline ytserush

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Re: Rush v. Dirk, Pratt & Lerxst
« Reply #3331 on: May 20, 2018, 04:40:54 PM »
GUP was a heavy guitar album and was a reaction to Signals.  They had Hugh Padgham (of The Police fame) set as the producer and he pulled out right before hitting the studio.

And that's why it misses for me.  It was SUPPOSED to be a "heavy guitar album" but rather than channel the "Jimmy Page" of most of the rest of the catalogue, he channeled "Andy Summers".   Andy Summers is a lot of things, most of them great, but "heavy guitar" is not one of them.   Plus, those drums sounds... ack.

I would say you did a disservice to yourself.  This wasn't 1974 Alex,  This was 1984 Alex and you should have known the influences of that time.

I wouldn't argue that; oddly I love - I mean, "Top Five Or So Rush Albums Ever" love - the albums around it (Signals and Power Windows).   I don't know the best analogy, except maybe food:   Alex's guitar playing at that time was like garlic; in a spaghetti sauce, it's AWESOME (Signals), and on a pizza it's AWESOME (Power Windows), but on breakfast cereal, it's not (p/g).   My biggest beef with p/g is not Alex, it's Neil.   That drum sound.    The best example is the fill on "Red Sector A" right before Geddy sings "I hear the sound of gunfire at the prison gates..."; that should be an epic, for-the-ages Neil Peart drum fill - like the roll at the start of Subdivisions, textured, nuanced, evocative - and instead it sounds like Naked Eyes, "Always Something There To Remind Me". 

Well, if Neil Peart is serving the song like he says he wants to, I can't exactly see an epic drum fill there. 

Offline ytserush

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Re: Rush v. Dirk, Pratt & Lerxst
« Reply #3332 on: May 20, 2018, 04:47:07 PM »
Here's what happened.  Stadler was in a hurry one day, and he had some last minute grocery shopping to do.  He started to pull into a parking spot, but saw that there was a shopping cart right in the middle of that spot, probably left there by Altressa Cox-Blackwell.  He swerved, but was too late, hitting both the cart and the car next to him, causing his airbag to deploy.  When he came to, he thought he was OK and went about his life, never realizing that the mild concussion caused a rare form of insanity that causes one not to like Grace Under Pressure.

The issue for me has never been that he dislikes it (people like what they like) it's that he expects it to be something it isn't. There's a pretty clear record of what they (Neil in particular) wanted to do with this album.  Whether they succeeded is another argument entirely. (I think they did succeed.)

Offline Stadler

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Re: Rush v. Dirk, Pratt & Lerxst
« Reply #3333 on: May 20, 2018, 07:45:49 PM »
Here's what happened.  Stadler was in a hurry one day, and he had some last minute grocery shopping to do.  He started to pull into a parking spot, but saw that there was a shopping cart right in the middle of that spot, probably left there by Altressa Cox-Blackwell.  He swerved, but was too late, hitting both the cart and the car next to him, causing his airbag to deploy.  When he came to, he thought he was OK and went about his life, never realizing that the mild concussion caused a rare form of insanity that causes one not to like Grace Under Pressure.

The issue for me has never been that he dislikes it (people like what they like) it's that he expects it to be something it isn't. There's a pretty clear record of what they (Neil in particular) wanted to do with this album.  Whether they succeeded is another argument entirely. (I think they did succeed.)

Of course, you probably know that for me, that's all that matters:  how close did the band get to the sound in their head.   But - and not to argue, but to continue the discussion - I would argue that they never went back to that drum sound again, at least not in any meaningful way, so one can assume that even if that was what they were going for, the destination didn't live up to the journey.   

And above, I don't mean "epic" in the sense of wicked, cross-kit tom fill, but just something with the gravitas of the words themselves:  Gunfire, prison, walls...  Like I said, like that fill at the end of the intro to Subdivisions (the snare roll). 

EDIT:  And let's be clear: it's not what I EXPECT.  I expect nothing  from my artists except that they be as true to themselves as they can.  Rush has, what, ten or twelve other albums that touch me more.  That's all.   Wouldn't have them change it, I'm not calling for them to go back and re-record it or anything like that, I just prefer what came before and what came after better, that's all.   
« Last Edit: May 21, 2018, 07:23:07 AM by Stadler »

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Re: Rush v. Dirk, Pratt & Lerxst
« Reply #3334 on: May 20, 2018, 07:57:46 PM »
I'm a huge Rush fan and I never read of Neil being disappointed in his sound.  It was during the search for a new Producer for Power Windows that Peter Collins, told Neil that he could make his drum sound better.  Neil was appalled, then realized that Peter was right.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
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Offline jammindude

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Re: Rush v. Dirk, Pratt & Lerxst
« Reply #3335 on: May 20, 2018, 09:19:35 PM »
I just got a new system and listened to Steven Wilson's 5.1 mix of Xanadu.


....and now there's something in my eye. 
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Rush v. Dirk, Pratt & Lerxst
« Reply #3336 on: May 20, 2018, 09:20:22 PM »
I just got a new system and listened to Steven Wilson's 5.1 mix of Xanadu.


....and now there's something in my eye.

I sure hope that is a tear and not something else...:P

Offline jammindude

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Re: Rush v. Dirk, Pratt & Lerxst
« Reply #3337 on: May 20, 2018, 09:50:26 PM »
I just got a new system and listened to Steven Wilson's 5.1 mix of Xanadu.


....and now there's something in my eye.

I sure hope that is a tear and not something else...:P

I did....in fact....cry.

Steven Wilson is a genius. 

I'm just **BEGGING** in my heart of hearts that there will be an identical box set for Hemispheres announced soon for release later this year.
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Offline Fritzinger

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Re: Rush v. Dirk, Pratt & Lerxst
« Reply #3338 on: May 21, 2018, 10:40:53 AM »
I just got a new system and listened to Steven Wilson's 5.1 mix of Xanadu.


....and now there's something in my eye.

I sure hope that is a tear and not something else...:P

I did....in fact....cry.

Steven Wilson is a genius. 

I'm just **BEGGING** in my heart of hearts that there will be an identical box set for Hemispheres announced soon for release later this year.

Steven never disappoints with his remasters. That's why I can't wait for his Yes-boxset. I can't afford the huge Farewell boxset, but I will spend the 120 bucks (or so) to listen to the early Yes masterpieces with that sound.
any rock can be made to roll

Offline ytserush

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Re: Rush v. Dirk, Pratt & Lerxst
« Reply #3339 on: May 21, 2018, 04:00:54 PM »
Here's what happened.  Stadler was in a hurry one day, and he had some last minute grocery shopping to do.  He started to pull into a parking spot, but saw that there was a shopping cart right in the middle of that spot, probably left there by Altressa Cox-Blackwell.  He swerved, but was too late, hitting both the cart and the car next to him, causing his airbag to deploy.  When he came to, he thought he was OK and went about his life, never realizing that the mild concussion caused a rare form of insanity that causes one not to like Grace Under Pressure.

The issue for me has never been that he dislikes it (people like what they like) it's that he expects it to be something it isn't. There's a pretty clear record of what they (Neil in particular) wanted to do with this album.  Whether they succeeded is another argument entirely. (I think they did succeed.)

Of course, you probably know that for me, that's all that matters:  how close did the band get to the sound in their head.   But - and not to argue, but to continue the discussion - I would argue that they never went back to that drum sound again, at least not in any meaningful way, so one can assume that even if that was what they were going for, the destination didn't live up to the journey.   

And above, I don't mean "epic" in the sense of wicked, cross-kit tom fill, but just something with the gravitas of the words themselves:  Gunfire, prison, walls...  Like I said, like that fill at the end of the intro to Subdivisions (the snare roll). 

EDIT:  And let's be clear: it's not what I EXPECT.  I expect nothing  from my artists except that they be as true to themselves as they can.  Rush has, what, ten or twelve other albums that touch me more.  That's all.   Wouldn't have them change it, I'm not calling for them to go back and re-record it or anything like that, I just prefer what came before and what came after better, that's all.

That's why I said you (everyone really) like what you like. I get that you don't have any emotional connection with it. (I suppose a similar album for me would be Marilion's Brave (I kind of think that FEAR succeeds where Brave fails and that's probably another argument) which is pretty much the only outlier in the catalog for me other than Less is More and about half of Afraid of Sunlight.)

For the band, there was a lot of baggage that came with Grace Under Pressure. They didn't have a lot of fun making it (They didn't really have a lot of fun making Hemispheres either) and most of that was related to having a producer and then not having one and working on their own a fair bit. It took so long to make because they wanted to get it "right." As I said, I think they succeeded.

Generally if they don't think they succeed at something they might try it again and some argue that Power Windows was what Grace Under Pressure should have been.  (That's yet another argument.)  But if they try again it's more on a song level, not an entire album.

As far as the "epic" drum fill goes. If there was an something like that in the song you couldn't have an explosion live which I would argue makes the point a lot better than a drum fill would.  Also Neil never likes to do the same thing twice out of boredom so I can understand why you wouldn't see many similarities later on.

I would disagree that the destination didn't live up to the journey but, for Geddy at least, Power Windows was the higher evolutionary step.  I may be wrong about this but I think Geddy is the only one on record with any criticism and even that was years after the record was made.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Rush v. Dirk, Pratt & Lerxst
« Reply #3340 on: May 21, 2018, 11:35:22 PM »
I just got a new system and listened to Steven Wilson's 5.1 mix of Xanadu.


....and now there's something in my eye.

I sure hope that is a tear and not something else...:P

I did....in fact....cry.

Steven Wilson is a genius. 

I'm just **BEGGING** in my heart of hearts that there will be an identical box set for Hemispheres announced soon for release later this year.

Steven never disappoints with his remasters. That's why I can't wait for his Yes-boxset. I can't afford the huge Farewell boxset, but I will spend the 120 bucks (or so) to listen to the early Yes masterpieces with that sound.

What is this "Yes-boxset" you speak of, and this "Farewell" boxset?   


Offline Stadler

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Re: Rush v. Dirk, Pratt & Lerxst
« Reply #3342 on: May 22, 2018, 10:07:40 AM »
Thank you kind sir!

Offline Fritzinger

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Re: Rush v. Dirk, Pratt & Lerxst
« Reply #3343 on: May 22, 2018, 10:23:46 AM »
Thank you kind sir!

I'd have loved if Steven remastered and included Going For The One and Drama, too. You would have probably too ;)

But I don't wanna turn this into a Yes thread.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Rush v. Dirk, Pratt & Lerxst
« Reply #3344 on: May 22, 2018, 10:49:54 AM »
Thank you kind sir!

I'd have loved if Steven remastered and included Going For The One and Drama, too. You would have probably too ;)

But I don't wanna turn this into a Yes thread.

GFTO in 5.1 surround is my current musical holy grail. 

Offline Fritzinger

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Re: Rush v. Dirk, Pratt & Lerxst
« Reply #3345 on: May 23, 2018, 06:47:11 AM »
Thank you kind sir!

I'd have loved if Steven remastered and included Going For The One and Drama, too. You would have probably too ;)

But I don't wanna turn this into a Yes thread.

GFTO in 5.1 surround is my current musical holy grail.

Whenever you write GFTO I think of "Get the fuck out"  :rollin

any rock can be made to roll

Offline Lethean

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Re: Rush v. Dirk, Pratt & Lerxst
« Reply #3346 on: May 23, 2018, 07:26:41 AM »
Me too. :)

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Re: Rush v. Dirk, Pratt & Lerxst
« Reply #3347 on: May 23, 2018, 07:27:42 AM »
haha me too!
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Offline IDontNotDoThings

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Re: Rush v. Dirk, Pratt & Lerxst
« Reply #3348 on: May 23, 2018, 07:33:02 AM »
get fuck the out
ドリームシアターはあまり好きではありませんが、ペンと紙を持っていたので、なんてこった。

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Re: Rush v. Dirk, Pratt & Lerxst
« Reply #3349 on: May 23, 2018, 07:47:51 AM »
Get fucked, then out  :lol
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Offline pg1067

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Re: Rush v. Dirk, Pratt & Lerxst
« Reply #3350 on: May 23, 2018, 10:36:06 AM »
Whenever you write GFTO I think of "Get the fuck out"  :rollin

When I read the title of the Sons of Apollo thread, I read it as "Sons of a Pollo" (Spanish word for chicken in case anyone doesn't know).   :biggrin:
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Offline Fritzinger

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Re: Rush v. Dirk, Pratt & Lerxst
« Reply #3351 on: May 24, 2018, 01:02:59 PM »
@ all of you

 :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin


I actually speak Spanish but I never realized the Pollo thing  :lol  Thanks, now I can't unread it! Just like during Pain Of Salvations song Reasons I can now only hear "These are Doritos"  :biggrin:
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Rush v. Dirk, Pratt & Lerxst
« Reply #3352 on: May 24, 2018, 05:07:52 PM »
I am an unabashed fan of 2112-MP Rush, and hater of synth Rush. I like some various later output, think CA is quite good, and The Pass is my second favorite Rush song after 2112.

I gave Signals and GUP (YES I SAID GUP) a good listen and I gotta say, I really don't like this era of Rush. I mean, I don't dislike it in a hateful way, it's just such a far cry from my love for 2112-MP Rush. I can't think of another band who elicits such radically different feelings from me on their output from different periods in their career. The only other possible band in this category is Floyd, but they took a few albums to find their sound, a member loss, addition, and change in direction and songwriting leadership.
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Re: Rush v. Dirk, Pratt & Lerxst
« Reply #3353 on: May 24, 2018, 06:11:20 PM »
That's why I love them.  They soak in what's around them musically. Never standing still.  Bands that stand still bore me over their career.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Rush v. Dirk, Pratt & Lerxst
« Reply #3354 on: May 24, 2018, 06:33:04 PM »
That's why I love them.  They soak in what's around them musically. Never standing still.  Bands that stand still bore me over their career.

What about when time stands still?



:P

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Re: Rush v. Dirk, Pratt & Lerxst
« Reply #3355 on: May 24, 2018, 06:35:08 PM »
Just a little bit longer. Not 10 years down the road!!🤣
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
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Offline TAC

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Re: Rush v. Dirk, Pratt & Lerxst
« Reply #3356 on: May 24, 2018, 06:52:56 PM »
I am an unabashed fan of 2112-MP Rush, and hater of synth Rush. I like some various later output, think CA is quite good, and The Pass is my second favorite Rush song after 2112.

I gave Signals and GUP (YES I SAID GUP) a good listen and I gotta say, I really don't like this era of Rush. I mean, I don't dislike it in a hateful way, it's just such a far cry from my love for 2112-MP Rush. I can't think of another band who elicits such radically different feelings from me on their output from different periods in their career. The only other possible band in this category is Floyd, but they took a few albums to find their sound, a member loss, addition, and change in direction and songwriting leadership.

OK, first off, the bolded makes no fucking sense. I mean seriously.

I am also a fan of 2112-MP. Big time. I became an angry Rush fan, and consider myself still to be, ober the 80's era. Yet Singals through HYF each has 4 or 5 really good songs. That said, I'm not looking for that from "my" Rush. Sure I can make a great Compilation CD of that era, but I feel like I'm lowering my standards to do so.


That's why I love them.  They soak in what's around them musically. Never standing still.  Bands that stand still bore me over their career.

You're a fanboy, so I'm not sure you can have an objective opinion here. You can evolve and change without doing so it so jarringly.
Rush spent most of the last 20-25 years going through the motions. I mean, I guess looking at it in the positive, at some point it all becomes gravy.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

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Re: Rush v. Dirk, Pratt & Lerxst
« Reply #3357 on: May 24, 2018, 07:01:29 PM »
And I can't trust what you say because you have a narrow view on music you like.  The bands I love the most evolve all the time.  Never standing still.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
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Offline TAC

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Re: Rush v. Dirk, Pratt & Lerxst
« Reply #3358 on: May 24, 2018, 07:03:21 PM »
No. You.  :lol
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

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Re: Rush v. Dirk, Pratt & Lerxst
« Reply #3359 on: May 24, 2018, 07:12:53 PM »
 :rollin


In your face Flanders!
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
"Oh, I am definitely a jackass!" - TAC