Rush v. Dirk, Pratt, & Lerxst

[The Walrus]

"Balls" is certainly not something I'd describe Genesis as having, but that's just me 

Test For Echo is... Well, I like Counterparts more. I'll give it a couple more spins before really elaborating, but the first listen hasn't really done much for me. Something is off here. Title track is great though. I often get a seasonal vibe from music I listen to and this album sounds like an early summer album to me. Interesting.

[KevShmev]

Test for Echo is a solid record, but it's one of the least popular albums and one the band barely touched on in the 21st century for a reason. 

[The Walrus]

I like some of what's going on in the record - there's something about Driven, it makes me think Steven Wilson probably loves that song, because it sounds so much like his stuff - but mostly it sounds like it took 90s rock and runs with that vibe. It's weird hearing guitars sound that heavy in songs like Time and Motion (which also uses the orchestra hit keyboard effect in a way I've never heard before). I also try to enjoy Dog Years but... I don't like it. The way 'Doooog years' is sung grates on me and is probably the track I dislike most on Test For Echoes. Unfortunately there's not a whole lot here that I really like - I would actually say it's my least favorite since A Farewell to Kings. I won't call it bad, because it isn't, but... yeah.

Vapor Trails is next and I suppose I'll just hear the remixed version first since that's what Spotify has. I feel lucky in that I get to hear a proper mix of it first. If I dig it, I'll check out the HD tracks version.

[IDontNotDoThings]

I would actually say it's my least favorite since A Farewell to Kings.

Implying AFTK is worse than TFE?

[The Walrus]

I would actually say it's my least favorite since A Farewell to Kings.

Implying AFTK is worse than TFE?

Not necessarily... I haven't heard a bad Rush record, they're all good in their own ways. But... AFTK and TFE left me wanting more, moreso than any other albums - a bit of hesitation about listening to them after the first time. AFTK lacks the fun rocking vibe from all the other 70s albums - even the debut - and Test For Echo sounds like a band that has gotten comfortable, maybe not as many ideas in the well at that time, not sure. Almost like Presto 2, but even less keyboards.

[IDontNotDoThings]

I would actually say it's my least favorite since A Farewell to Kings.

Implying AFTK is worse than TFE?

Not necessarily... I haven't heard a bad Rush record, they're all good in their own ways. But... AFTK and TFE left me wanting more, moreso than any other albums - a bit of hesitation about listening to them after the first time. AFTK lacks the fun rocking vibe from all the other 70s albums - even the debut - and Test For Echo sounds like a band that has gotten comfortable, maybe not as many ideas in the well at that time, not sure. Almost like Presto 2, but even less keyboards.

I guess I could understand that. I personally really enjoy both AFTK & TFE, I was just clarifying because a lot of people would consider that a really controversial opinion (since AFTK is usually considered one of their best albums while TFE is considered one of their worst).

Also if I could add to the TFE discussion, I actually felt it was a vast improvement over Bones & Counterparts. Even though a lot of people like them more, I've always felt they were way too gimmicky for their own good & were bogged down by a lot of filler (especially RTB). TFE feels like the best parts of both of those albums with enough influence from the time to make it unique enough but not stick out (lol) like a sore thumb. I also much prefer the production on TFE & I think the title track, Totem, Time & Motion, Virtuality & Carve Away The Stone are all amazing highlights. The only song I don't care for is Dog Years, but even then it's not like I actively dislike it, it's just kind of there, so it doesn't really detract that much from the big picture for me.

[The Walrus]

I guess I could understand that. I personally really enjoy both AFTK & TFE, I was just clarifying because a lot of people would consider that a really controversial opinion (since AFTK is usually considered one of their best albums while TFE is considered one of their worst).

Also if I could add to the TFE discussion, I actually felt it was a vast improvement over Bones & Counterparts. Even though a lot of people like them more, I've always felt they were way too gimmicky for their own good & were bogged down by a lot of filler (especially RTB). TFE feels like the best parts of both of those albums with enough influence from the time to make it unique enough but not stick out (lol) like a sore thumb. I also much prefer the production on TFE & I think the title track, Totem, Time & Motion, Virtuality & Carve Away The Stone are all amazing highlights. The only song I don't care for is Dog Years, but even then it's not like I actively dislike it, it's just kind of there, so it doesn't really detract that much from the big picture for me.

TFE sounds so 90s to me, both musically and the production. I don't know how to describe it, Dog Years just seems like it's such a 90s song for some strange reason.

What was gimmicky about RTB and Counterparts to you?

[IDontNotDoThings]

I guess I could understand that. I personally really enjoy both AFTK & TFE, I was just clarifying because a lot of people would consider that a really controversial opinion (since AFTK is usually considered one of their best albums while TFE is considered one of their worst).

Also if I could add to the TFE discussion, I actually felt it was a vast improvement over Bones & Counterparts. Even though a lot of people like them more, I've always felt they were way too gimmicky for their own good & were bogged down by a lot of filler (especially RTB). TFE feels like the best parts of both of those albums with enough influence from the time to make it unique enough but not stick out (lol) like a sore thumb. I also much prefer the production on TFE & I think the title track, Totem, Time & Motion, Virtuality & Carve Away The Stone are all amazing highlights. The only song I don't care for is Dog Years, but even then it's not like I actively dislike it, it's just kind of there, so it doesn't really detract that much from the big picture for me.

TFE sounds so 90s to me, both musically and the production. I don't know how to describe it, Dog Years just seems like it's such a 90s song for some strange reason.

What was gimmicky about RTB and Counterparts to you?

I always felt like the grunge influence of Counterparts was really out of place in a Rush album, especially right after the previous few albums. I dunno, I guess it just feels forced to me. Usually I'm not opposed to change, but I feel like Counterparts just does it for the sake of it rather than trying to expand the band's musical horizons. I guess it's more of a gut feeling thing that I can't really explain, but something feels off about it to me.

As with RTB, I always hated how abrasively poppy it was. Songs like Face Up, You Bet Your Life & the verses in The Big Wheel have this overtly fun, uplifting sound to them & again, it's always felt so out of place. Before when Rush went for a more commercial sound, you could still argue that the songs still had a lot of depth & were a lot more musically interesting than they were on the surface (mainly those on Power Windows), but  Roll The Bones always felt so hollow, like it was only trying to have fun for the sake of it instead of really wanting to travel in a different direction, which is why it always struck me as gimmicky (especially since when the album isn't desperately trying to have fun it slows to a grinding halt - looking at you, Heresy).

[KevShmev]

What's wrong with fun just for the sake of having fun?  Answer: nothing!

I always thought the alleged grunge element of Counterparts was that: alleged.  That album brought back the hard rock. Not a single thing about that album makes me think of grunge.

[IDontNotDoThings]

What's wrong with fun just for the sake of having fun?  Answer: nothing!

It's not necessarily that, it's just that I feel like it doesn't come off naturally at all & it makes the music come off more forced as a result.

[The Walrus]

That's interesting. I don't hear any grunge either. Also, different strokes of course, but Face Up rocks to me

[Orbert]

Rush changed their sound constantly, practically every album, but they always sounded to me like they were doing exactly what they wanted to do, never "trying" to do a certain kind of thing, just doing it.

[King Postwhore]

You need to get your gut checked then. It must be sick.

 it's been proven over the years at rush said why can't we get the live sound that we have the balls that we sound live and get it on an album.   That was their sole purpose to get that heavy live sound on an album.

[jammindude]

I guess I could understand that. I personally really enjoy both AFTK & TFE, I was just clarifying because a lot of people would consider that a really controversial opinion (since AFTK is usually considered one of their best albums while TFE is considered one of their worst).

Also if I could add to the TFE discussion, I actually felt it was a vast improvement over Bones & Counterparts. Even though a lot of people like them more, I've always felt they were way too gimmicky for their own good & were bogged down by a lot of filler (especially RTB). TFE feels like the best parts of both of those albums with enough influence from the time to make it unique enough but not stick out (lol) like a sore thumb. I also much prefer the production on TFE & I think the title track, Totem, Time & Motion, Virtuality & Carve Away The Stone are all amazing highlights. The only song I don't care for is Dog Years, but even then it's not like I actively dislike it, it's just kind of there, so it doesn't really detract that much from the big picture for me.

TFE sounds so 90s to me, both musically and the production. I don't know how to describe it, Dog Years just seems like it's such a 90s song for some strange reason.

What was gimmicky about RTB and Counterparts to you?

I always felt like the grunge influence of Counterparts was really out of place in a Rush album, especially right after the previous few albums. I dunno, I guess it just feels forced to me. Usually I'm not opposed to change, but I feel like Counterparts just does it for the sake of it rather than trying to expand the band's musical horizons. I guess it's more of a gut feeling thing that I can't really explain, but something feels off about it to me.

As with RTB, I always hated how abrasively poppy it was. Songs like Face Up, You Bet Your Life & the verses in The Big Wheel have this overtly fun, uplifting sound to them & again, it's always felt so out of place. Before when Rush went for a more commercial sound, you could still argue that the songs still had a lot of depth & were a lot more musically interesting than they were on the surface (mainly those on Power Windows), but  Roll The Bones always felt so hollow, like it was only trying to have fun for the sake of it instead of really wanting to travel in a different direction, which is why it always struck me as gimmicky (especially since when the album isn't desperately trying to have fun it slows to a grinding halt - looking at you, Heresy).

FINALLY!!!!  I'm not alone in the world!!!!

I am constantly getting razzed because I think CP is gimmicky, a little too much "wearing grunge on our sleeve", and "trying too hard"...and to my ears, TFE sounds much more like Rush finding their feet again.   It's the sweet spot between the "light and airy" sound of Presto and RTB, and the overly grungy CP.   

[Nick]

While I agree that Test For Echo seems like a less forced and more pure album, I can't bring myself to say it's better than Counterparts. Just too many middle of the road songs or worse on Test For Echo. However nothing on T4E is anywhere near as bad as Stick It Out, which is the epitome of the bad items you guys are talking about. Yes, I am saying Dog Years > Stick It Out.

[Architeuthis]

I like Counterparts and T4E equally. I'm in the minority, but I love Everyday Glory, and Virtuality. Both strong tracks from each record that gets overlooked.  Also, Cut To The Chase should have been the rocking radio hit from Counterparts, not Stick it Out..

[Lethean]

Just have to chime in to say that I love Counterparts from start to finish, and that includes Stick It Out. Maybe the lyrics aren't Neil's best. I don't care. That song rocks. It rocks live too.

No problems with Test from me. It's not one of my favorites, but I like it just the same.

[The Walrus]

Just have to chime in to say that I love Counterparts from start to finish, and that includes Stick It Out. Maybe the lyrics aren't Neil's best. I don't care. That song rocks. It rocks live too.

No problems with Test from me. It's not one of my favorites, but I like it just the same.

I like Stick It Out, too! I didn't hear anything wrong with it... Pretty sure it's on my favorites playlist too 

[pg1067]

Rush's three 90s albums are fairly easy to rank:

1. TfE
2. Counterparts
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Last. RtB

Roll the Bones is, for my money, the only truly bad Rush album.  There's very little redeeming about it, and it was a huge disappointment after Presto.  Counterparts was better but still not great.  At the time, Nobody's Hero held some significance since my fiancée's (now wife) father was in the process of dying of AIDS.  Animate is ok but becomes redundant after too many listens.  Stick It Out is probably my favorite song, but I don't really seek it out.  Several of the others are decent but again, I don't really seek them out.  The last time I listened to Counterparts all the way through, I was left with the feeling that I had seriously overrated it at the time (probably only because it was an improvement on RtB).

TfE is better still, although I probably don't reach for it any more often than I do Counterparts.  The title track, Driven, Half the World and Resist are good songs.  I like the use of the dulcimer on Half the World, and I prefer the live acoustic version of Resist.  Virtuality, on the other hand is absolutely terrible, and Dog Years isn't significantly better.  TfE is fairly similar to Presto in that it has some good songs (although nothing on TfE is as good as Available Light) but also some monster duds.

[The Walrus]

Vapor Trails is a cool album. I like a lot of the music here, but with 13 tracks, it'll take a few more spins. I may take another day with this one because I like it. I did listen to the remixed version on Spotify, but I don't put too much stock in the production just yet because I'm on my phone. But, without knowing the details of what Neil went through (I know the big points of what happened but not much else), I can say that the music on Vapor Trails sounds a lot more inspired than on Test For Echo and that's what matters to me. It has more energy, more passion. Test For Echo sounding like Rush going through the motions, Vapor Trails sounds like they still have more to give. Hard to pick favorites right now but I paid a lot of attention to Neil on this one and really liked his playing. Geddy's voice is really good too, he sounds more energetic than on TFE.

[ProfessorPeart]

Pick up Neil's Ghost Rider book.

Daughter died in a single care accident. Wife died less than a year later from cancer. He was so wrecked he got on his motorcycle and just left. Didn't tell anybody where he went. Only sent postcards here and there to people. Ged mentioned that in the documentary. In the end, he rode for 55,000 miles before returning home.

The book is his journal from the ride.

Ghost Rider: Travels on the Healing Road

[KevShmev]

Vapor Trails is a cool album. I like a lot of the music here, but with 13 tracks, it'll take a few more spins. I may take another day with this one because I like it. I did listen to the remixed version on Spotify, but I don't put too much stock in the production just yet because I'm on my phone. But, without knowing the details of what Neil went through (I know the big points of what happened but not much else), I can say that the music on Vapor Trails sounds a lot more inspired than on Test For Echo and that's what matters to me. It has more energy, more passion. Test For Echo sounding like Rush going through the motions, Vapor Trails sounds like they still have more to give. Hard to pick favorites right now but I paid a lot of attention to Neil on this one and really liked his playing. Geddy's voice is really good too, he sounds more energetic than on TFE.

Agreed.

Test for Echo sounded like a band who needed some time off (and got it for the worst reasons).

And for all of its flaws, Vapor Trails is definitely full of energy and passion.

Also, I would recommend checking out Geddy Lee's solo album, My Favorite Headache, that came out when they were on hiatus between TFE and VT.  Very nice, enjoyable record.

[ProfessorPeart]

Great call on My Favorite Headache! I love that album.

I second that recommendation.

[ytserush]

I like New World Man, but it is definitely not a standout by any means.

Hand over Fist is similar in that I like it, but it doesn't stand out at all.

And people can say what they want about Roll the Bones (the album or the song), but Dreamline, Bravado, Where's My Thing and Ghost of a Chance are all great songs.  This album appealed, at the time, to a lot of non-diehard fans.  Dreamline and Roll the Bones being major rock radio staples that year sure helped.

That's the last album that got a HUGE push from the label (Four singles released to radio (Dreamline and Where's My Thing were co-advance tracks.) Three US tour legs and one UK/Euro leg.

Not 100 percent sure about this but I think it sold the most copies than any album since Moving Pictures in the year or two after Roll The Bones was released.

Most of the songs on the album are pretty great, but the studio versions really suck. I wouldn't have minded if they'd have done the whole album live (It's easily a Top Ten for them in sales.)

[ytserush]

Bravado blows.

Ever hear it live?

[ytserush]

That's not true at all period for the modern instrumentals most Rush fans love that song.

Noooooooooone expects the Spanish Inquisition!

It's OK.

The Clockwork Angels Tour version is the creme de la creme....that ones just smokes.

[TAC]

Bravado blows.

Ever hear it live?

Saw the RTB tour.

[ytserush]

Not even going to attempt to come up with a top 50, or top anything.  I'm sure I would start to agonize over which songs wouldn't make the cut.

Welcome to my world.

[TAC]

Pussies. 

[ytserush]

"Balls" is certainly not something I'd describe Genesis as having, but that's just me 

Test For Echo is... Well, I like Counterparts more. I'll give it a couple more spins before really elaborating, but the first listen hasn't really done much for me. Something is off here. Title track is great though. I often get a seasonal vibe from music I listen to and this album sounds like an early summer album to me. Interesting.

Totally different album. Acoustic guitars come back in a big way.

I always thought the title track was one of the weaker tunes on an otherwise fine album.

[ytserush]

What's wrong with fun just for the sake of having fun?  Answer: nothing!

I always thought the alleged grunge element of Counterparts was that: alleged.  That album brought back the hard rock. Not a single thing about that album makes me think of grunge.

Imagery in Stick It Out video was the clue for me, but that's all there it is.

[ytserush]

I like Counterparts and T4E equally. I'm in the minority, but I love Everyday Glory, and Virtuality. Both strong tracks from each record that gets overlooked.  Also, Cut To The Chase should have been the rocking radio hit from Counterparts, not Stick it Out..

I'm with you there.

[TAC]

Isn't Virtuality the "net boys net girls" song? How bad is that??

[ytserush]

Agreed.

Test for Echo sounded like a band who needed some time off (and got it for the worst reasons).

Never sounded like that to me. I hear song craft.

[ytserush]

Great call on My Favorite Headache! I love that album.

I second that recommendation.

If we're going to go there, might as well try Victor too. 

But don't expect a guitar slinger record just as Geddy's album isn't a bass record rather than a singer/songwriter album.