Author Topic: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread  (Read 300606 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Orbert

  • Recovering Musician
  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 19225
  • Gender: Male
  • In and around the lake
Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #1470 on: October 19, 2016, 05:49:25 PM »
I'm actually glad when others post stuff in this thread.  Songs they're working on, updates on their stuff.  I know I write a lot, but I don't want to dominate the thread.

Offline BlackInk

  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6907
  • Gender: Male
Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #1471 on: October 20, 2016, 12:24:59 AM »
I was half laying down when I began to read the last few FlashDrive updates, but when I got to "the look" I sat up straight and actually said like "oh shit" out loud. Lol.

Offline Orbert

  • Recovering Musician
  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 19225
  • Gender: Male
  • In and around the lake
Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #1472 on: October 20, 2016, 06:59:44 AM »
:lol

Offline TheLordOfTheStrings

  • I make music. I also do other stuff sometimes.
  • Posts: 1607
  • Gender: Male
  • EB
Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #1473 on: October 21, 2016, 02:17:57 AM »
One of my bands has recorded our first EP. We're a concept band who's songs revolve around the main character from a book that I'm writing. This particular EP tells the backstory of a secondary character from the book. I've written a short story that details his backstory which I plan on releasing as an ebook for free sometime soon. We play progressive blues-based rock, though some friends think we also dab into the metal genre (which was unintentional, but I'm kinda a metal guy at heart, so it just kinda happened). Take a listen - like I said, it's conceptual, so it's meant to be listened to from start to finish. Thanks guys.
https://bloodhoundbandcamp.bandcamp.com/album/poet-ep
« Last Edit: October 21, 2016, 02:24:22 AM by TheLordOfTheStrings »
Check out my various music projects - I’ve got concept albums, singer/songwriter, rock, metal, prog, and more coming soon:

https://linktr.ee/STARCOMMANDStudios

Offline Mosh

  • For I have dined on honeydew!
  • Posts: 3825
  • Gender: Male
Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #1474 on: October 21, 2016, 10:33:13 AM »
I've lurked in this thread for a long time but I don't know if I ever posted. Some really entertaining stories here. I do a lot of music myself, although not many interesting stories I can think of right now. I recorded an album over the summer that I'm pretty happy with. I'm still learning how to record and mix properly, but I've gradually made improvements with this. One thing I tried to do here was strip down the sonic field a bit by only having one part at a time for each instrument. If there is an organ part being played, that is the only keyboard part, or only one guitar at a time, etc. A few songs break this rule (most notably the first song), but this really helped in the mixing process. It sounds less like a sonic mess than my previous album did.

https://animalsoup.bandcamp.com/album/eardreams
New Animal Soup scifi space opera for fans of Porcupine Tree, Mastodon, Iron Maiden: Chariots of the Gods

https://animalsoup.bandcamp.com/album/chariots-of-the-gods

Offline BlackInk

  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6907
  • Gender: Male
Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #1475 on: October 22, 2016, 06:29:36 AM »
Take a listen - like I said, it's conceptual, so it's meant to be listened to from start to finish. Thanks guys.
https://bloodhoundbandcamp.bandcamp.com/album/poet-ep

This was great, dude. Really well done. Was especially impressed by the vocals. It's the weak link in so many projects, but whoever's doing the vocals here is really good.

I recorded an album over the summer that I'm pretty happy with.

https://animalsoup.bandcamp.com/album/eardreams

This is less my type of music, but it was still pretty cool. I'm at 'Under the Light' right now and it has a really nice laid back feel-good vibe to it.

"The music on this album was written with the intention of being concise and unique." You certainly delivered on that front in my opinion. So, good job!

Offline Mosh

  • For I have dined on honeydew!
  • Posts: 3825
  • Gender: Male
Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #1476 on: October 22, 2016, 11:12:02 AM »
Thanks for checking it out!
New Animal Soup scifi space opera for fans of Porcupine Tree, Mastodon, Iron Maiden: Chariots of the Gods

https://animalsoup.bandcamp.com/album/chariots-of-the-gods

Offline TheLordOfTheStrings

  • I make music. I also do other stuff sometimes.
  • Posts: 1607
  • Gender: Male
  • EB
Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #1477 on: October 23, 2016, 04:53:59 PM »
Take a listen - like I said, it's conceptual, so it's meant to be listened to from start to finish. Thanks guys.
https://bloodhoundbandcamp.bandcamp.com/album/poet-ep

This was great, dude. Really well done. Was especially impressed by the vocals. It's the weak link in so many projects, but whoever's doing the vocals here is really good.


Thanks brother! The bass player and I did all the vocals. Actually, we're the only two members of the band! haha
« Last Edit: October 28, 2016, 12:36:16 PM by TheLordOfTheStrings »
Check out my various music projects - I’ve got concept albums, singer/songwriter, rock, metal, prog, and more coming soon:

https://linktr.ee/STARCOMMANDStudios

Offline Sacul

  • Spinettapilled
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 12114
  • Gender: Male
  • ¿De qué sirvió haber cruzado a nado la mar?
Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #1478 on: October 27, 2016, 09:09:28 AM »
So I was bored last night and made this nice little beat  :corn

Offline Lucien

  • James 5:1-5
  • Posts: 4618
  • Gender: Male
Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #1479 on: October 28, 2016, 01:39:17 AM »
Today I finished writing this solo for the instrument I play. After I learn it I'll probably record it with a pianist.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2016, 06:42:07 AM by Lucien »
"Kind of a stupid game, isn't it?" - Calvin

Offline Elite

  • The 'other' Rich
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 17544
  • Gender: Male
  • also, a tin teardrop
Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #1480 on: October 28, 2016, 04:05:13 AM »
Who is Stephen Wilson?
Hey dude slow the fuck down so we can finish together at the same time.  :biggrin:
Squ
scRa are the resultaten of sound nog bring propey

Offline Lucien

  • James 5:1-5
  • Posts: 4618
  • Gender: Male
Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #1481 on: October 28, 2016, 09:24:40 AM »
Who is Stephen Wilson?

who the hell do you think  :lol

sort of an unfortunate name, i suppose
"Kind of a stupid game, isn't it?" - Calvin

Offline Elite

  • The 'other' Rich
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 17544
  • Gender: Male
  • also, a tin teardrop
Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #1482 on: October 28, 2016, 09:55:03 AM »
Is that your real name?  :o
Hey dude slow the fuck down so we can finish together at the same time.  :biggrin:
Squ
scRa are the resultaten of sound nog bring propey

Offline Lucien

  • James 5:1-5
  • Posts: 4618
  • Gender: Male
Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #1483 on: October 28, 2016, 10:07:21 AM »
Is that your real name?  :o

Yeah. I don't think I'll ever become a popular musician thanks to another certain someone  ::)

Google likes to not care about the difference between a ph and a v
"Kind of a stupid game, isn't it?" - Calvin

Offline Elite

  • The 'other' Rich
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 17544
  • Gender: Male
  • also, a tin teardrop
Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #1484 on: October 28, 2016, 12:15:23 PM »
And here I was thinking your real name was Lucien, which isn't that strange a thought.

To be fair, there's probably thousands of people named Steven/Stephen Wilson.
Hey dude slow the fuck down so we can finish together at the same time.  :biggrin:
Squ
scRa are the resultaten of sound nog bring propey

Offline TheLordOfTheStrings

  • I make music. I also do other stuff sometimes.
  • Posts: 1607
  • Gender: Male
  • EB
Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #1485 on: October 28, 2016, 12:31:39 PM »
I've lurked in this thread for a long time but I don't know if I ever posted. Some really entertaining stories here. I do a lot of music myself, although not many interesting stories I can think of right now. I recorded an album over the summer that I'm pretty happy with. I'm still learning how to record and mix properly, but I've gradually made improvements with this. One thing I tried to do here was strip down the sonic field a bit by only having one part at a time for each instrument. If there is an organ part being played, that is the only keyboard part, or only one guitar at a time, etc. A few songs break this rule (most notably the first song), but this really helped in the mixing process. It sounds less like a sonic mess than my previous album did.

https://animalsoup.bandcamp.com/album/eardreams
This was actually really cool! haha. Super laid back. The electronic elements have a very daft punky feel to them, which is cool. Good stuff dude!
Check out my various music projects - I’ve got concept albums, singer/songwriter, rock, metal, prog, and more coming soon:

https://linktr.ee/STARCOMMANDStudios

Offline Mosh

  • For I have dined on honeydew!
  • Posts: 3825
  • Gender: Male
Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #1486 on: October 29, 2016, 07:17:12 PM »
Thanks! I love Daft Punk though they were almost more of an indirect influence. The vocoder vocals in particular were more out of necessity because I'm not much of a singer. I did reference some Daft stuff for that.
New Animal Soup scifi space opera for fans of Porcupine Tree, Mastodon, Iron Maiden: Chariots of the Gods

https://animalsoup.bandcamp.com/album/chariots-of-the-gods

Offline Orbert

  • Recovering Musician
  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 19225
  • Gender: Male
  • In and around the lake
Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #1487 on: October 31, 2016, 12:35:29 PM »
More Drama!

In the Chicago suburbs, every suburb has their own festival and celebration every year.  They range in size, but in general are the biggest local event of the year.  The Village Green or whatever the big park downtown is gets converted into a fair.  Rides, games, and of course live music.  This is known as "the festival circuit".  Bands can make anywhere from $800 to $2000 for that one night, and if you manage to get on the circuit, you go around and play six or eight (or more) of these during the spring and summer months.

Two weeks from Friday is a big thing at one of the big hotels, it's a showcase for the local festivals.  Reps will be there to decide what bands to hire for next year's festivals.  Bands will be there to basically do mass auditions.  15 minutes, show them what you've got, maybe score big.  This is a very big deal.  We weren't ready for the festival circuit this year; we would've had to have been ready last fall and appear at this showcase.  We're ready now.

So the thing is coming up, and the organizer contacted John with some tips: Don't play individual songs, put together a medley of 7-8 songs which show your versatility, variety, musicianship, and vocal strength.  That's the only one that caught us by surprise.  We'd decided which three songs to play, killer songs, but what the hell, we can put together a 15-minute medley of songs.  I volunteered to do it, and "Festival Medley v3.mp3" was eventually emailed out to everyone, along with a breakdown of how it's all put together.  Saturday was our first practice of two to nail this thing down.  We worked on it for three hours.  It's coming together really well.

Some things didn't work quite as well as I'd thought, but whatever; I knew this was only a draft.  Some transitions worked better if we left in four or eight bars to give someone time to switch guitars or stomp on pedals.  Some things flowed better if we cut this out part out, but left this part of this other song in.  That kind of thing.  I remember that there was an one eight-bar section we cut that Anne felt very strongly against cutting, but it was basically a throwaway section.  It's in "Separate Ways" right near the end where Perry is ad-libbing "I still love you I really love you blah blah blah" while Neil plays the same solo he'd played before, then the big ending.  We cut that.  Anne thought it made more sense lyrically to keep it because the next thing is "Noooooooo!!!!" over the synth hook and it would sound like she's telling him No, as opposed to No, please don't go.  Whatever, it's bits and pieces of songs.  The buyers will not be critiquing the lyrics.

I get up from my Sunday afternoon nap yesterday to a missed call, a voicemail, and a text, all from John, all asking me to call him.  This will not be good.

He got an email from Anne Saturday night at 11:00 PM (after he'd gone to bed; he didn't see it until Sunday) which he presumes came about after several glasses of wine, but as he puts it "alcohol is the best truth serum" and he's right.

Anne can't deal with this.  The way we disrepect her (what?), the way we're always talking about her behind her back (which she's never seen but she knows we do it), the way she never has any input into the decisions we make, blah blah blah, whine whine whine (and probably more wine wine wine).  This thing with cutting the vocal ad-lib part was just the last straw, the one that broke the camel's back.  She's so tired of having to put up with all the shit she gets from us (seriously, WTF?) and the way we gang up on her if she dares to open her mouth.

Uh... no.  This is a band.  Every one of us has compromised, for the good of the band.  Every one of us puts the band first, because without the band, we don't get to be rock stars on the weekends.  Every one of us, except her.  John says that this has been going on for a while, most of the summer at least (I had no idea) and her emails are always full of "I thought... " and "But I wanted..."  It's always about her, it's never what's better for the band.  He's spent the last few months trying to smooth over the hurt feelings regarding adding Jessica as a support singer, which a bigger person would be able to see objectively makes us a better band.  Our vocals now are as kickass as our instrumentals.  We did it.  We are now a fucking top-shelf cover band, really for the festival circuit, the big bucks as far as this level of entertainment goes.  So of course it's now time for someone to get fucking butthurt about something and want to quit.

John's telling me all this, and I'm thinking maybe it's time for a different approach.  Mediation?  That would be weird.  How about we just ask her what the fuck it is that she wants us to do?  Does she want full control of the set list?  Not gonna happen.  Does she want final say on all vocal decisions?  She has the most say, but the final word still comes down to the band.  No one has 100% control over anything.  It's called compromise, putting the needs of the many ahead of the needs of your own selfish ass.  Given that, what does she want?  Have we ever really asked her that, point blank.

John says that he suspects she'd never be able to articulate that.  And unfortunately, it really doesn't matter at this point because there's more.  First, this has been going on for a while (that's when he shared that bit about it going on all summer) and Anne is beyond pessimistic, beyond paranoid; she's full-blown delusional.  The accusations of us colluding against her, the objectively wrong perception that she has no input into the decisions, the way we brought in another singer without her approval (approval?)... But most of all, there's another thing.  Jerry, who at our last band meeting said he was 50-50 on staying and putting up with this shit, had also sent John an email after Saturday's practice.  He's decided.  He'll play this showcase thing with us, but after that he's gone.  He won't be as dramatic as Steve was ("either she goes or I go") but basically he's tired of dealing with Anne and her shit.  Again, I'm totally caught off guard by this.  I had never perceived anything negative between those two.  Never.  When we're playing, for three hours, everything in the world is great.  I'm playing rock and roll.  I'm playing good rock and roll with a good band with good singers and it sounds good and we are good.  As far as I knew, everything was great.  Maybe I'm the naive one.

But there it is.  We either find another singer or we find another bass player.  Steve left because of Anne, Pat had numerous reasons for leaving but #1 was Anne, and Jessica isn't available for the showcase thing (she teaches vocal music, and that is the day of her school concert) but has intimated to John that she's having second thoughts about being in the band and working with Anne.

There are other bass players, and yeah, I'm sure it's easier to find a good-enough bass player than a good singer.  But from Day One, the basis of this band has been that it is not our day job, and we may never make any money doing it, therefore it has to be about fun, and playing music isn't fun if you don't get along with the rest of the band.  It's about "fit".  John has cut people he didn't think were a good fit, and right now, if there's one person who's causing the most problems, giving him the most headaches, not "fitting" with the rest of the band, it's our prima-donna lead singer Anne.  He's made the executive decision and she's got to go, for the sake of the band.  The band is not the lead singer.  Actually, he sees the core of the band as JT, Jerry, myself, and him.  We've seen lead guitarists come and go.  We've seen singers come and now probably go.  These are key positions in the band, no question.  But if the person in that position places their wants above the needs of the band -- that is, considers themself more important than the other five members combined -- then that person is the problem.

My phone says that John and I talked for 46 minutes, 11 seconds.  I basically agreed with him on everything we discussed.  I like Anne, he likes Anne, but we both like the band more, and the band is not going to bend over or bow to the wishes of the lead singer.  Some bands do that.  This is his band, and this band will not do that.  I'm perfectly fine with that.

Next steps: Somehow keep it together for two more weeks.  Get this festival showcase done, wow a bunch of people, line up some big gigs for next year.  Then replace our lead singer and, by next summer, get another one and get her up to speed.  When we hit the festival circuit next year, and live out our dream of playing for thousands of people at a time, we will not be the same band that auditioned; we will be better.

Two steps forward, one step back.  That's been the pattern, every single time.  We finally had a full set list together and were ready to start playing gigs when we lost Karen.  We finally got to actually playing live when we lost Steve.  We finally got to playing some decent venues and not $10 shitholes when we lost Pat.  We are on the edge of playing the festival circuit, and it looks like we're losing Anne.  John says that there's one thing that could change the outcome of this, and it's that Anne has to convince him that she's turned herself around, realized how out-of-touch with reality she's been, make amends with the rest of the band, and show that she's ready to place the needs of the band ahead of her own.  He seriously doubts that this will happen.  But he has to keep her compliant until after the showcase.  Placate her, tell her Let's just get through this thing and then we can take a serious look at her issues and what we can do about them.  It would not exactly be untrue.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2016, 02:27:37 PM by Orbert »

Offline Evermind

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 16230
  • Gender: Male
Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #1488 on: October 31, 2016, 12:37:30 PM »
I haven't read the latest Orbert's post yet—I'm going to be on it right after I post this—but I've got to say, these FlashDrive updates are the best thing happening on DTF right now, as far as I'm concerned.
This first band is Soen very cool swingy jazz fusion kinda stuff.

Offline Elite

  • The 'other' Rich
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 17544
  • Gender: Male
  • also, a tin teardrop
Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #1489 on: October 31, 2016, 02:16:37 PM »
I kind of agree, it's great reading all of that.

Wow, I think you guys have got the right idea though; the band is always more important than a single person, but as soon as that single person gets too much a hold of a band's sound or writes most of the music, it's not as easy. This happens with lead-singers, lead-guitarists and bands in which there's only one person writing the songs (Steven Wilson comes to mind; every musician can basically be replaced except for him). You guys are a cover band, so obviously anybody could potentiallybe replaced and as you said, the intention is to have fun. Don't let your fun be spoilt by drama and tell you lead-singer what you said here. Oh, and nail that festival show-case!!
Hey dude slow the fuck down so we can finish together at the same time.  :biggrin:
Squ
scRa are the resultaten of sound nog bring propey

Offline Orbert

  • Recovering Musician
  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 19225
  • Gender: Male
  • In and around the lake
Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #1490 on: October 31, 2016, 02:41:03 PM »
By the time I'd gotten up from my Sunday afternoon nap, John had already spoken with JT and Jerry, and they were both on the same page as he and I.  Also, John had replied to Anne's email, stating in what he thought were very clear terms that he thought she was off base with her perceptions, there was no great conspiracy against her, and that everyone is compromising here.  Everyone is placing the good of the band ahead of their own wants, except her.  He gave multiple specific examples.

She completely either missed or ignored the point of the email and responded with more "But I wanted..." and "But I said we should..." and "But I thought..." and literally just a bunch more examples of her just not getting it.  She sees the band as existing so that she can get what she wants out of it.  That's true for all of us.  But she is not more important than the band itself.  No one is.

It was that reply which prompted John to contact the rest of us individually and bring up the impending departure of Anne, and do whatever calming down and/or convincing was necessary.  None was necessary.  We all agree completely with John's position on this.  For now, if Anne brings anything up, we just say that yeah, it looks like we have some more stuff to work out, but let's focus on this showcase for now, then we'll address specific complaints that anyone might have.  And just hope she doesn't bail before then.

Offline Orbert

  • Recovering Musician
  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 19225
  • Gender: Male
  • In and around the lake
Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #1491 on: October 31, 2016, 07:18:03 PM »
I just thought of something.  And to be quite honest, I feel kinda shitty that I hadn't thought of it before.

I do consider Anne a friend as well as a bandmate.  I personally would rather see her stay in the band and work things out, if that's at all possible.  Even so, it's still three votes to two against her.  (Larry and Jessica presumably do not get votes, having little to no tenure in the band yet.)  I could reach out to Anne, call her, send her an email, something, and tell her Hey, this is it.  John is ready to kick you out, and let's just say it's not looking great but there's still something you can do to fix that, maybe.  You're not gonna like it, but here it is, take it or leave it.  And tell her what John said about what she has to do, completely, or else.  And we're still outvoted and John could still say Bye-bye, so it could just make things worse.  Jerry could decide Well okay, I guess she's staying, so I'm gone, sorry it worked out like this.  And we'd have Anne, but she'd still be a psycho prima donna, and now we need to find a bass player, too.

So I should just shut up.  And let my friend get kicked out of a band she really likes being in.  The fact that I'm also a member of that band shouldn't matter, right?  But it does.  The band still comes first.

Fuck.

Online hefdaddy42

  • Et in Arcadia Ego
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 52775
  • Gender: Male
  • Postwhore Emeritus
Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #1492 on: November 01, 2016, 09:14:34 AM »
Band comes first.
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline Orbert

  • Recovering Musician
  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 19225
  • Gender: Male
  • In and around the lake
Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #1493 on: November 01, 2016, 11:19:24 AM »
Bros before... well, something like that.  I won't speak that way about Anne, maybe because I still kinda want to bang her, though I'm pretty sure that would never happen anyway.

Steve at least had one thing right: Females in a band make things infinitely more complicated.  If it's all dudes, we can give each other shit, speak freely and with whatever level of profanity is appropriate, and at the end of the day it's all good.  With females, you never know what one remark they're going to remember and go home and cry about, and then bring it and a dozen other things up later when they finally get upset enough to make a scene.

John has started looking (quietly) for another female singer.  I asked him whether he's learned anything from dealing with Karen, and now Anne.  He says he has.  I hope so.

Something else I thought of.  All this crap that Anne has been laying on John these past months, all the whining and long rambling wine-fueled emails that have driven John to the point of just not wanting to deal with her any more regardless of how great a singer she is... that's all John's word and nothing else.  It's possible that John is completely making it all up.  It's not likely, and I don't believe it for a minute, but it's an interesting thought.  What if John is really the psycho here, and his "alternate personality" surfaces from time to time and torpedoes everything we've accomplished?  Weird how you never really know.

Online hefdaddy42

  • Et in Arcadia Ego
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 52775
  • Gender: Male
  • Postwhore Emeritus
Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #1494 on: November 01, 2016, 12:13:07 PM »
 :omg:
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline Orbert

  • Recovering Musician
  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 19225
  • Gender: Male
  • In and around the lake
Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #1495 on: November 01, 2016, 05:59:42 PM »
It's a wacky thought, and as I said, I don't believe that that's the case.  For example, Jerry independently brought up at our previous meeting about how all this behind-the-scenes drama was just driving him nuts.  He wouldn't feel that way unless he too had seen it, right?

Or maybe John had been telling him about it, driving him nuts, and it never really existed.

Jessica made the situation ten times worse when we were in the middle of reassuring Anne that she's the lead singer, the one and only front person, and she (Jessica) said "Wait a minute, I'm a front person too!"

Or maybe John had been talking to her about that, and told her to make sure that if it comes up, to assert herself.

John talks to each of us individually, and there are also emails to subsets of the band back and forth, the ones he feels are relevant to the conversation.  This is 100% due to his many years of "managing" people, and he takes the exact same approach with running the band.  I'm sure you can see the problem there.  Being in a band is not the same as working your job and doing what your manager says.  The band is supposed to be fun; we're all in it because we want to be.  You can't just up and quit your job if you don't get along with a coworker.  Well, you could, but you get the point.  It's not the same thing.  Some aspects have similar dynamics, yes, but you can't just run it exactly the same way.  It's just interesting that it creates the possibility that he's manipulating every one of us.  Or maybe I'm going nuts, too.  It's a very paranoid thought to even have, isn't it?

Anyway, it's just a weird and wacky thought I had.  For right now, the band still exists, I get to Rock and Roll, and it's all good.  I'd rather Anne stay, but if she's causing problems for the rest of us, causing others to leave, then she's the problem.  It's just a lot harder to find a good leader singer than it is to find a good bass player.

And in a twisted way, I do find all of this drama interesting.  Call it studying human behavior.  I'd rather it didn't happen, but as long as I get to Rock and Roll, whatever.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2016, 06:04:53 PM by Orbert »

Offline Elite

  • The 'other' Rich
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 17544
  • Gender: Male
  • also, a tin teardrop
Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #1496 on: November 02, 2016, 12:41:08 AM »
It's just a lot harder to find a good leader singer than it is to find a good bass player.

Are you sure? I mean an actual good bass player. Not a guitarist who happens to know where the notes are, but one that can groove and really give a song that nice low-end. One who can add subtle bass lines to the song without overdoing it or becoming yet another melody-instrument.  In my experience, a good bass guitarist is really hard to find. Then again, this can be said for basically any instrument. Once you really start looking for quality, you'll find out how many bad musicians there are out there.
Hey dude slow the fuck down so we can finish together at the same time.  :biggrin:
Squ
scRa are the resultaten of sound nog bring propey

Offline Orbert

  • Recovering Musician
  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 19225
  • Gender: Male
  • In and around the lake
Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #1497 on: November 02, 2016, 07:15:31 AM »
In our position, yes, I think it's harder.  We're all in our 50's, and it's just common sense (and a bit of experience) that the singer will need to be of a similar age.  Some hot 20-something or 30-something singer might have great pipes, but they're not going to want to sing classic rock with a bunch of dinosaurs.  They also have to live near enough to make practice every weekend and have weekends free in general because that's when the gigs are.  John is set on the singer being female, so if she has kids (which is definitely the norm around here) they have to be old enough to be left alone during these times.  Sure, it's possible that she's so fired up about being the singer in a rock band that she'll shell out for a babysitter just so she can go practice with a bunch of dudes 20 years older than her, but what are the chances of that, really?  And how many 50-somethings can still sing, really sing Rock and Roll?  If they can, chances are good that they're already in a band.

And part of it is because, while we'd love to have a really good bass player who can groove, there's a bit more leeway there.  The bass player only has to be "good enough".  The musicianship level of the rest of the band is still very high; we could get away with a mediocre bass player if need be.  A mediocre lead singer/front person is not an option.

It just blows my mind that this band keeps getting better and better, and we're on the verge of actual success, including real money (which was never the goal but certainly a nice plus) and we have not one, but two people going "nah, this just isn't working for me".  We're a fucking great band, it's official.  Every time I play with this band, I can't believe how good we are; it's the best band I've ever played in.  And our singer still can't put her selfish wants and needs aside; it's still not enough for her.  And our bass player loves playing with us but can't deal with the behind-the-scenes bullshit, which is so behind-the-scenes that I didn't even know it existed.

When I'm playing, if the music's good, I don't give a fuck if the singers hate each other, if the bass player secretly wants to be somewhere else, or anything else.  All that matters is the music.  I guess for me, that's enough.  That makes it all worthwhile.  Other aren't the same, though.

Online hefdaddy42

  • Et in Arcadia Ego
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 52775
  • Gender: Male
  • Postwhore Emeritus
Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #1498 on: November 02, 2016, 07:53:18 AM »
Solution: get a male singer.
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

  • Official Forum Sous Chef and broler5
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 13979
  • Gender: Male
  • Kelly Clarkson BEEFS
Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #1499 on: November 02, 2016, 09:23:48 AM »
I'll second the "way easier to find a good bassist than a good singer" conundrum.  Currently there myself, and I suspect that it's due to the kind of stuff we want to do.  We've likely been entirely too ambitious in the type of stuff we've chosen to do, and because of it, we can't find a singer worth a shit.  Or at all, really.  Bummed, but not much I can do.  I need to get something going though.  I'm ready to start playing again and really would love to be playing again.

Offline Orbert

  • Recovering Musician
  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 19225
  • Gender: Male
  • In and around the lake
Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #1500 on: November 02, 2016, 12:12:43 PM »
Solution: get a male singer.

Female singers start with the advantage of having higher voices.  Good singers are hard to find anyway, but you'll still find more girls that can sing Steve Perry or Tom Johnston than guys who can sing Pat Benatar or Ann Wilson.  Also, John is pretty stuck on having a female singer, although part of that is because of the variety and flexibility that comes with it.

Even if you find a guy who can sing way up there, how many are willing to sing "girl songs"?  Benatar, Heart?  Joan Jett if you're lucky.  Girls don't seem to have the same issue singing guy songs because they're the norm.  Very few bands can get away with only doing songs originally sung by female lead singers.  You'd have to be really, really good, make it your thing, your trademark.  Otherwise the lack of variety just won't get you gigs around here.  Way too much competition.

Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

  • Official Forum Sous Chef and broler5
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 13979
  • Gender: Male
  • Kelly Clarkson BEEFS
Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #1501 on: November 02, 2016, 12:21:12 PM »
I've always been anti-chick singer, but maybe it's time to relent on it.  Maybe it would do us good.

Offline Orbert

  • Recovering Musician
  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 19225
  • Gender: Male
  • In and around the lake
Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #1502 on: November 02, 2016, 01:37:43 PM »
It's different.  Our band back in the 80's (the last "real" band I was in before all this mess) started with a guy singing, then we switched to a girl singer, and it opened up a lot of possibilities.  She was also a better singer than the guy we started with, but that's a separate issue.  At the time, Missing Persons were hot, Quarterflash, The Motels, I guess kinda like today you have Pink, Lady Gaga, Adele, etc.  A pretty significant percentage of popular music, and if you have a guy singer, you really can't do them.  But if you have a girl singer, you can do it all.

Online hefdaddy42

  • Et in Arcadia Ego
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 52775
  • Gender: Male
  • Postwhore Emeritus
Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #1503 on: November 02, 2016, 02:04:39 PM »
My thing is twofold:

1) There are a lot more rock songs with male singers than female singers.  If you can't do a particular song by a female singer, big whoop, there are hundreds more songs to choose from that have male singers.

2) Not being a chauvinist, but guys are generally easier to get along with.  Guys tend not to like drama.

IMHO and for my time and from my experience.
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

  • Official Forum Sous Chef and broler5
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 13979
  • Gender: Male
  • Kelly Clarkson BEEFS
Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #1504 on: November 02, 2016, 02:07:03 PM »
Exactly.  Like Orbert said, with a guy singer, he's "one of the guys".  You can bust his balls, be sarcastic, be "guys", and everyone's cool, and there's no emotion tied to any of it.  Do that with a woman and chances are, as demonstrated, it will eventually bite you in the ass, because you never know what little thing will get picked out and held onto.