Author Topic: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread  (Read 302770 times)

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Offline James Mypetgiress

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #770 on: May 18, 2015, 12:01:38 PM »
Last week at our church we did a "combined" service (traditional and contemporary together - which is not normally my preference).  Our worship band was asked to do "Lord I Lift Your Name On High" which is completely boring, so we worked up an arrangement that sounded like Steve Miller's "The Joker."
Your churches sound cool. Mine's just full of pensioners singing "jesus take the wheel" and such-like. Maybe we should start singing songs with rock in them. That would be great!

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #771 on: May 18, 2015, 12:26:01 PM »
We tend to rock it out.  For the time being, I am back on drums, and we have a good time with it, complete with guitar solos, trashcan endings, the works.
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Offline James Mypetgiress

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #772 on: May 18, 2015, 12:27:13 PM »
I need to give my church tips on how to be cool

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #773 on: May 18, 2015, 12:49:41 PM »
I need to give my church tips on how to be cool
I think that if we tried to be cool, it would fail.  We are just being ourselves, and cool is what comes out lol.

We have an interesting group of backgrounds among our members - metal, Southern rock, prog, bluegrass, classic rock, country, blues, jazz, formal symphonic/choral, etc.  It's an interesting mix.
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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #774 on: May 18, 2015, 12:52:44 PM »
I think I've told this story before, possibly in this same thread, but I don't care.  It's relevant.

A couple years ago, I was asked to fill in and accompany the children's choir at the last minute, as the regular accompanist couldn't make it.  The service started in 15 minutes, the accompanist had the music; all the director had was a photocopy of the song, actually just the melody.  Just the one song.  The song was "Lord, I Lift Your Name on High".  I remember it was in G.

I found an empty room with a piano and quickly worked out  the chords.  I've heard the song a few times, but had never played it.  I wrote the chords right on the paper, since it was my copy.  Found the choir director again, and she said that they're doing three verses, which is literally the same verse three times.  Yeah, completely boring.

So when it came time to actually play the song, I did the first verse pretty straight and simple, then kinda chopped up the rhythm for the second verse, with stop-time chords and a little syncopation (the kids had no idea and just kept singing the song straight, so it sounded pretty cool), then for the third verse it was straight again, but with a little extra rhythm and flair for the big finish.  Turned a pretty straightforward song into something almost interesting.

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #775 on: May 18, 2015, 12:55:27 PM »
We do it in G as well.

Not only is not musically interesting on its own, I've probably played it 300 times over the last 20 years.  Yuck.
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Offline Scorpion

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #776 on: May 18, 2015, 01:01:59 PM »
So.

I had a concert on Saturday, it was supposed to be a huge thing - choir and orchestra, 300 people in total, outdoor.

The snag? It started raining like five minutes before the concert should begin.

The orchestra didn't want their instruments to get wet - which I understand - so we ended up improvising and doing most of the stuff choir only. That was actually pretty cool, because during rehearsals, the orchestra had been quite overpoweringly loud.

What was less cool was singing in the rain, but luckily the rain stopped about an hour in. After that, it really was pretty dang cool.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #777 on: May 18, 2015, 02:06:58 PM »
Awesome!
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Offline James Mypetgiress

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #778 on: May 18, 2015, 02:28:56 PM »
Were you all like ?

Offline Scorpion

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #779 on: May 18, 2015, 02:31:44 PM »
No.

I was wearing a cheap plastic rainponcho and looking like a massive tool.
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Offline James Mypetgiress

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #780 on: May 18, 2015, 02:32:26 PM »
No.

I was wearing a cheap plastic rainponcho and looking like a massive tool.
That's disappointing 

Offline Lucien

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #781 on: May 22, 2015, 12:58:13 AM »
So I wrote a short, semi-atonal thing, just to keep my mind at work while I mess with things for the second movement of my symphony. I think I like it, though I'm not usually very fond of atonality.
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Offline Onno

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #782 on: May 22, 2015, 03:16:19 AM »
That sounded really cool Lucien  :tup

Offline Nihil-Morari

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #783 on: May 22, 2015, 06:58:07 AM »
So I wrote a short, semi-atonal thing, just to keep my mind at work while I mess with things for the second movement of my symphony. I think I like it, though I'm not usually very fond of atonality.

That's dark! But I liked it too. Especially the end, I like how it builds up and that the rest in the final measure sounds like a relief.
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Offline Lucien

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #784 on: May 22, 2015, 09:46:35 AM »
Thanks guys  ;D

I should write more music at 1:30 in the morning
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #785 on: May 28, 2015, 04:20:55 AM »
Proud Papa!  Here is my daughter playing trumpet at her very first school band concert from Tuesday night.  She is in sixth grade, and I am thankful that she attends the only school in the area that ISN'T cutting the arts.  She is second from the right.  The piece was composed by two other students.

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Offline James Mypetgiress

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #786 on: May 28, 2015, 04:27:30 AM »
Goddamit, the kids of people on DTF are better than me!

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #787 on: May 28, 2015, 04:52:07 AM »
Goddamit, the kids of people on DTF are better than me!
:lol
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #788 on: May 28, 2015, 05:13:49 AM »
Haha. That doesn't bother me. I'm as good on guitar as *I* want to be.

Offline James Mypetgiress

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #789 on: May 28, 2015, 05:28:46 AM »
Sadly, I can't play guitar, I can play drums (admittedly, badly) and I can play the keyboard/synth (although again, badly)  :lol

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #790 on: May 28, 2015, 02:18:21 PM »
For anybody interested listening to an hour of choir music from the 20th century in German, English and Latin, click the link below for a concert of my choir that I had talked about in the thread a little already. It was VERY demanding, but damn was it cool.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/r0teru91pfwx8vg/AADZ9nz435gNVUUCwzg1dtCRa?dl=0
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Offline James Mypetgiress

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #791 on: May 28, 2015, 04:41:51 PM »

Offline Onno

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #792 on: May 28, 2015, 06:01:01 PM »
For anybody interested listening to an hour of choir music from the 20th century in German, English and Latin, click the link below for a concert of my choir that I had talked about in the thread a little already. It was VERY demanding, but damn was it cool.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/r0teru91pfwx8vg/AADZ9nz435gNVUUCwzg1dtCRa?dl=0
Will check it out!

Offline BlackInk

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #793 on: June 04, 2015, 12:36:10 PM »
Me, the first guitarist, and the second guitarist/keyboard player of my band decided today that our drummer is not fit to be in this band, since he does not seem to take it seriously, doesn't practise, and doesn't even really like the genre we play. I have pushed those thoughts away for quite some time, since I didn't want to kick someone out of the band we started as four friends just having some fun playing together. But over the last few months it has become apparent that me and the two others are starting to actually take this a bit seriously, and we have yet (because of the drummer) been unable to play through a single song completely (!).

I have long suspected that he doesn't even really want to be in the band, so hopefully it won't be too much of a deal for him.

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #794 on: June 04, 2015, 02:33:19 PM »
Gotta be done.  Sad but true.
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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #795 on: June 04, 2015, 03:04:33 PM »
Yeah, if a band has goals, then everyone in the band has to share those same goals.  You are a unit.  It can't work if any one of you isn't trying to do the same thing as the others, whether it's the song you're playing or the long-time goals you're trying to achieve.

The band I'm in now (subject of much drama upthread) is dealing with some of the same issues because it did just start as a bunch of guys wanting to play some tunes in John's basement and just enjoy making music.  But John "accidentally" put together a pretty talented group, and now the goal is to try to actually gig and make a little money.  Our lead singer quit because of that (it became less fun and more like work) and honestly, I'm not sure how enthusiastic about it I am anymore.

Offline James Mypetgiress

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #796 on: June 05, 2015, 02:06:24 AM »
I guess that's something that's gotta be done. My band had a guy like that until a couple of months ago. He hated the style of music, and was basically ruining the project with negativity. Thankfully, we didn't have to tell him anything. He left on his own accord.

Offline sneakyblueberry

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #797 on: June 05, 2015, 02:54:14 AM »
It's difficult having to make those kinds of decisions, especially when there is a lack of talented musicians around.

Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #798 on: June 05, 2015, 06:57:34 AM »
The idea of being able to gig without it seeming like work is something that seems like it should be pretty easy to pull off.  We all love to play, it should be a no-brainer.  But somehow, it's a tough balance to achieve.  My most recent band, the singer would play anywhere, anytime, ANYTHING to put this band in front of people.  The bass player and I did not ever intend for the band to be the primary focus in our lives.  He has two teenage kids, a job, a wife, etc.  I have a teenage step son, a wife, a job, etc.  We have social lives and vacations and responsibilities and friends.  Last year, in 13 weeks, from August through November, we did 11 gigs, 2 of which were in one day.

It's one of the reasons I had to just cut out and take a break.  My bass player recently followed suit, since they weren't going out of their way to get someone new in to replace me.  Instead, every time I'd come fill in for a gig, the singer would get drunk and pressure me to return, instead of setting up a time to talk sober about the issues I had.  Then on top of it, I was constantly having to reign in our drummer who was wildly inconsistent, timing-wise, our other guitarist I could never hear, because he insisted on being quieter than me because I was the lead guitarist.  All of this was just too much.  Nobody would get off their ass and learn new songs or even learn little things in songs that I had to point out 30 times.  Things that were important cues or things like that.  It was a bummer, because we had great potential to be a serious force on the scene, but everybody was too busy trying to shoot the band in the foot for that to happen.

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #799 on: June 05, 2015, 10:02:28 AM »
I'm not gonna say "been there, done that" because I haven't experienced some of the issues you describe, but they certainly sound like things that can't be too uncommon.  When you're a bunch of high school punks, you're doing it for the fun of playing, and maybe to impress chicks, and it's not like you have a whole hell of a lot going on in your life otherwise.  But obviously the vast majority of high school garage/basement bands don't have any real talent.

The bands I've played with in my "adult years" have been much, much better in terms of talent and people willing to actually put in the time, but we also have lots of other shit going on which places demands on our time.  Families and jobs are the biggies, obviously, so the band automatically is at least third on the list of priorities for everyone.  Also, since we're not stupid punks with stars in our eyes, none of us are under any illusion that we're going to make it big or even see the band become our primary source of income.  So it's "just a hobby" pretty much by definition, but one that has to have the aligned efforts of everyone involved.  That's the hard part.  We have six people in our band, which makes it nearly impossible to even schedule rehearsals.  Incredibly, we found a time that works.  Every other Saturday.  That alone takes a commitment that's much harder to make as an adult than it would be as a kid.

As for playing in the band seeming like work, that's a weird one, as you point out.  We all love to play, we all want the band to succeed, it should be easy.  But the aforementioned conflicting priorities mess with that big time.  Then there's the whole issue where you want to sound the best you can, and you're mature enough to you know when you don't.  It's easy for good musicians to get together and play and sound pretty good.  Getting to where you sound really good takes effort.  You can be better than 80% of the other bands around, but that still won't get you gigs.  You need to be in the top 10% or even top 5%, and that takes work.  So your hobby suddenly has this whole other side of it that's not necessarily fun, it's actual work.  Everyone has to know every song, every fucking note, and it has to be tight.  That takes work.  The fun comes after you've put the effort in and you're in front of a crowd and they're digging it, but it takes work to get there.  It's not that no one wants to put in the effort; we just don't have the kind of time it takes to get there.

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #800 on: June 05, 2015, 10:53:07 AM »
Right and the unfortunate thing around my area is that there are a lot of bands that get out there and do a half-assed job of it, but I truly do not think they realize it.  The market is so saturated with mediocre bands, that trying to put a truly great band together and get it noticed is difficult.  I take no joy in being critical, but I cannot tell you how often I go out to see bands and the mistakes (that may not even be noticeable to the average person) stand out like a sore thumb to me.  Not even necessarily mistakes, but not playing something the right way.  An example, albeit not a great one: on Metal Health, in the verse - bass rides the A.  Guitars play A, B/A, C/A, B/A.  Just before the chorus, they go A5, B5, C5, D5.  Bass goes A-A-C-D.  When bassists go A-B-C-D, it makes me nuts.

That's a very small thing and some would say "What's the big deal?"  Actually, I imagine lots of people would say "what's the big deal".  The big deal is play the song correctly and make it the best recreation of the original that you are capable of delivering.  I do my best to make my part of what we do the best that it can be.  When "good enough" is good enough for everyone else, my experience has been that "good enough" is musician-speak for "I don't want to go out of my way to learn this song any differently than I already think I know it".

I seriously wanted to float the idea of being the band's musical director.  Like how Waddy Wachtel is for Stevie Nicks.  Overseeing everything and making sure it is up to snuff, for lack of a better term.  The problem is, while most bands could actually benefit from someone taking on that kind of role, it will almost never fly, especially in local bands, because it makes everyone else's ego hurt.  And I totally get that.  Plus then you become the bad guy, that nothing's ever good enough for, etc.  But I still think that a band could benefit form it, especially when it's someone who has a very good ear and understanding of music in the theoretical sense.

I get that beggars can't be choosers.  It's supposed to be fun and it's supposed to be part time.  This isn't our livelihood.  I just have never been in agreement that if you play an instrument and you want to be in a band, even on a part time basis, that having fun AND delivering a tight and accurate representation of the material cannot exist hand-in-hand.  My bass player has told me a number of times that he can't just hear things on a recording and pick them out.  Like in "Panama", there's a short little bass fill the measure before the verse.  He will never hear it and therefore will never play it.  I recognize that I am VERY lucky to be able to hear things like this, but I sometimes feel like it's a curse, because I'm wishing for all these little things that I hear to happen in the music when we play it and in reality, they're probably never going to happen, unless I point them out and show it to someone.  Then not only am I "doing the work" for someone else, I (again) fear becoming the guy who nothing is good enough for.

I'm rambling, really.  I just want to play part time in a band where everybody "gets it" and pulls off everything the way it should be done.  There are SOOOOOOO many musicians in my area, that this can't be an impossibility.  Yet I fear that it kinda is.

I'm way too particular about music and the people that I play with.  I readily admit that.  I want any band I'm in to come across like a lion, when usually, they're equipped to come across like a very menacing house cat.  I wish there was a way to turn off that switch in my head that makes me so particular, that makes me hear another band perform and in my head notice all the glaring issues, that makes me always want to push my bandmates to be better and better when they may not have it in them.  I don't think I can.

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #801 on: June 05, 2015, 11:16:17 AM »
You sound like the guys in my band.  That's a good thing.  Our goal is to replicate the song as closely as possible, we all have good ears for picking out our parts, and we tend to get them down.  Rehearsals are spent putting the pieces together, as they should be, not for people to actually learn their parts.  The main exception is John, and since it's his band and his basement, he's not going anywhere.  And it's kinda weird.  Overall, it's pretty rare, but once in a while, we'll go to put a tune together, and he'll play something that actually sounds okay, but it's not what's on the record.  It's like his fingers naturally did it a certain way, and his ears never noticed that it wasn't right.  Steve (the other guitarist) will always correct him, every time, and that's fine with me because I hear it too, but I don't play guitar so I let Steve explain it to him.

Fortunately, we have two things going for us: (1) we have a rule in our band that anyone can correct anyone else.  If the drummer hears something that the singer is doing wrong, or the guitarist hears something that the bassist is doing wrong, or whatever, they are allowed to say so.  Check your egos at the door; we're all here to do this right.  (2) I always have my iPod, with every song on it.  My iPod is run through my amp because that's how I practice at home, and at band rehearsals my amp has a line out to the board, so if there's ever a need for clarification, I pull up the song and we can all listen to it through the monitors.

So it's kinda funky that John, the leader of the band, is probably the weakest link.  Or maybe not so weird.  He's the only one we can't fire for not getting his parts right all the time!

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #802 on: June 05, 2015, 11:30:26 AM »
My only basis of comparison is our band at church. 

When we are working on songs, we aren't concerned with "getting it exactly like the record" as much as "getting the gist of it".  Of course, that's for a couple of different reasons.

1) We aren't working on one set of songs to play over and over again, but a different group of 6-8 songs each week - there just isn't time to be that precise; and

2) A lot of the songs we do have been covered multiple times by multiple artists, each with their own "twist", so we see it as doing it with OUR twist, OUR way.

But if I was in a real band, I would feel more like you guys.

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #803 on: June 05, 2015, 11:39:42 AM »
Rehearsals are spent putting the pieces together, as they should be, not for people to actually learn their parts.

Tat right there is what I've always tried to preach.  Learn your parts 100% on your own time.  Band practice is for bringing those already learned parts together and making them one.  Not for learning the song, which is something I dealt with a lot also.  A previous band I was in, we'd leave practice and say learn these two songs for next week.  Next week, we'd show up, bang both songs out and have them very well done and pretty much ready to play out.  Almost every week this happened.  It was glorious.  Stuff like Thin Lizzy's Cowboy Song, for example, with harmony guitar parts and even harmony bass guitar bits.  It was beautiful.  That band isn't around anymore, but ever since, I've longed to be back in that well-oiled of a machine.

I've always asked my band members to point out to me anything I wasn't getting right, so that I wouldn't feel bad about pointing out anything I noticed.  I always did the same with having a recording of the song readily available for us to listen to.  I just wish everyone had had the commitment to the music that I had.  For my singer and my drummer, they were more committed to playing out often.  It was more important to be seen at all than to be seen as really really awesome.

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #804 on: June 05, 2015, 11:58:22 AM »
My only basis of comparison is our band at church. 

But if I was in a real band, I would feel more like you guys.

That's why I love getting the other side of things, by playing in the church band.  Because of our wacky instrumentation, it's a given that we won't sound like the CD, but then again, there are at least two or three versions of most songs we do, so ours will just be another version.  I love that, getting to put our own spin on songs.  It truly is our version of the song.

But I always send out mp3's of the versions I'm using as our starting point.  At the very least, they need to know the songs.  The words and phrasing, etc.  In the email, I'll point out that the lead guitar line will be played on electric violin, who will be singing which parts, etc., and for the horns and guitars, I've got charts.  So it's nothing like anyone has ever heard before, but it's still the song.