Author Topic: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread  (Read 300619 times)

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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #700 on: April 25, 2015, 10:52:21 PM »
Guitarists are cool; keyboard players are geek nerds.  It's something I resigned myself to a long time ago.


As a hobby keyboardist myself, I can attest to that fact. :lol Half of the appeal of keyboard to me was always the ability to create different sounds and play around with that side of it.
The only keyboard I have is an M-Audio Keystation 88 Pro, which is just a MIDI controller with no sounds of its own, with 88 weighted keys, and a whole bunch of controls, including pitch/mod and a whole bunch of generic knobs, sliders, and buttons. So all of my sounds are software synths on the computer, no real deal.
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Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #701 on: April 26, 2015, 06:54:16 AM »
I've thought about different ways to go with a rig.  It has to be practical for both stage and rehearsal, and I'm about 30 years out of touch with how it's done today, so I have a lot of catching up to do.  One thing I've seen is guys with a controller such as you've described, and a laptop on the top rack.  Everything's digital, preset, and programmed.  The Jordan Rudess approach.  He basically has the entire night's worth of sounds all programmed and ready to go, and advances one from patch to the next via foot switch.  His hands never have to leave the keyboard.  Whether he's changing patches for the next song, or changing patches 10 times during the same song, he just hits the foot switch and the sounds he needs are there under his fingers.

That's super fucking cool, of course, and I keep using the word "practical" for some reason, but going that far with it somehow seems almost too far.  I like flipping switches and turning knobs during performance.  I feel more like I'm actually playing the thing, not just playing sounds on a keyboard that anybody could have programmed.

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #702 on: April 26, 2015, 07:02:31 AM »
I think for the type of music you're playing, it would be overkill, and it's not as reliable or simple to setup. But it's great fun if you're sitting in front of a computer noodling around with sounds and writing some music.
The PC way is more work upfront for less work on stage (in theory), but if you enjoy doing it all on the fly, then it's not a problem.
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Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #703 on: April 26, 2015, 07:23:16 AM »
I have a lot of respect for the keyboard player who actually turns knobs, pulls levers, and actively tweaks their sounds while playing. It soundd and looks much more organic and natural.
I just don't understand what they were trying to achieve with any part of the song, either individually or as a whole. You know what? It's the Platypus of Dream Theater songs. That bill doesn't go with that tail, or that strange little furry body, or those webbed feet, and oh god why does it have venomous spurs!? And then you find out it lays eggs too. The difference is that the Platypus is somehow functional despite being a crazy mishmash or leftover animal pieces

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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #704 on: April 26, 2015, 07:34:46 AM »
I wouldn't say it's necessarily more organic or natural, it's just more oldschool, which I guess I can see the appeal of. If anything, it's more natural to not have to be fiddling with your sound at all mid-playing. Having a more automated rig leaves you to just the playing.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2015, 07:40:17 AM by BlobVanDam »
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Offline BlackInk

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #705 on: April 26, 2015, 07:48:08 AM »
Thought I'd do the 'band update' thing as well.

For the first time ever I'm playing/writing/rehearsing with a proper band. We usually practice every weekend and it's really fun. We've only barely gotten through one of our own songs so far, as I try to write quite difficult (for us noobs) music that'll push us all further to become better players. So it's hard work but still great. We haven't found a singer yet, so we're only four instrumentalists at the moment.

We are in the process of writing a full length concept album and have three songs done so far, in total adding up to 26+ minutes.

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #706 on: April 26, 2015, 02:04:21 PM »
That sounds awesome.  I would love to be in a band that did original music, but it's tough enough even getting a cover band to work.

Offline PuffyPat

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #707 on: April 26, 2015, 08:13:02 PM »
I like flipping switches and turning knobs during performance.  I feel more like I'm actually playing the thing, not just playing sounds on a keyboard that anybody could have programmed.


flipping switches and turning knobs is the best part. as a drummer who plays guitar on the side, my entire fascination with guitar is the fact that i can have pedals that make a guitar sound like, well, not a guitar. the guitarist of my band hates my obsession with pedals, but i don't have the discipline to be as good as he as at guitar, so i just turn knobs, and make cool sounds.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #708 on: April 27, 2015, 04:14:08 AM »
The reason I prefer to play drums live is that you can't be out of tune or not hear yourself.

If you put in earplugs you can't be sure you can hear what you're playing on the guitar or if you're in tune.

But on drums you can hear everything clearly.

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #709 on: April 27, 2015, 06:50:34 AM »
Drums can definitely be out of tune.  Not in terms of absolute pitch, as with voiced instruments, but in terms of relative pitch.  The intervals between your toms should be consistent, for example.  That's why good drummers tune up before gigs, same as anyone else.

I also disagree about the use of earplugs.  Good earplugs will only lower the Db level coming into your ears.  You can still tell if you're in tune, and you can still hear what you're playing.  I wear earplugs during practices.

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #710 on: April 27, 2015, 07:51:40 AM »
My experiment going back to electric guitar has not been as good as I had hoped.  It's hard to find good sounding patches that blend in well with our already-existing sound.

But it's on delay for a while anyway.  Our drummer and his wife are expecting the birth of their first child any time in the next few weeks, so he is leaving to be on baby duty for a while.  So I am officially back on drums for the foreseeable future, which will be tons of fun.

First appearance back is this coming Sunday, which is Anniversary Sunday at our church.  Normally we have our Contemporary Service (where our band plays), and a traditional service (with piano, organ, and choir, where they sing mostly hymns).  But this Sunday will be a combined service, with both music groups "performing" individually and together on a few songs.  Should be, well, stressful, but also fun.  Also, church pot luck lunch following, and those are always  :metal
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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #711 on: April 27, 2015, 08:25:14 AM »
One of our original guitarists played electric with the band.  Our original sound (such as it was) was based on one electric, one acoustic, and piano, with the occassional violin or percussion thrown in.  He kept it to a pretty clean sound, with maybe just a enough grit to give it some extra texture.  It sounded really nice blended with the acoustic.

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #712 on: April 27, 2015, 08:37:27 AM »
One of our original guitarists played electric with the band.  Our original sound (such as it was) was based on one electric, one acoustic, and piano, with the occassional violin or percussion thrown in.  He kept it to a pretty clean sound, with maybe just a enough grit to give it some extra texture.  It sounded really nice blended with the acoustic.
That's cool.

Part of the problem is the set up.  I don't really have an amp at home (haven't played guitar in years, and we don't use amps at church), so I run sounds through a headphone jack at the house.  And I get stuff that sounds great to me.  Then we get to church and line into the system, and it doesn't sound the same.  Plus, our sound guy is not the best in the world, so he can't really help me to EQ myself with everything else to get a good sound.  Frustrating.

Like I said, though, I will beat the (electronic) skins for a while, so that will be fun.
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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #713 on: April 27, 2015, 10:30:10 AM »
Part of the problem is the set up.  I don't really have an amp at home (haven't played guitar in years, and we don't use amps at church), so I run sounds through a headphone jack at the house.  And I get stuff that sounds great to me.  Then we get to church and line into the system, and it doesn't sound the same.  Plus, our sound guy is not the best in the world, so he can't really help me to EQ myself with everything else to get a good sound.  Frustrating.

That sounds non-fun.  You have to be able to trust your sound man, but I know you don't always have a choice.  Maybe try to get some time in there "off hours" to work on sounds?  If and when you get back to guitar, that is.

I ran into something similar the other day, when I whipped out my "Separate Ways" patch.  It sounded great through my practice amp, over headphones, but I run a line out to the board and we basically rehearse listening to the monitors, and it sounded really, really dry.  I had to do some knob-tweaking on the fly (yay!) once I heard what it sounded like.

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #714 on: April 27, 2015, 10:50:07 AM »
Maybe try to get some time in there "off hours" to work on sounds?  If and when you get back to guitar, that is.
Yeah, that would be best, but it would work best if everyone could be there and hash out the sound as a whole.  Hopefully we can work it out.
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Offline PuffyPat

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #715 on: April 27, 2015, 11:47:58 AM »
The reason I prefer to play drums live is that you can't be out of tune or not hear yourself.

If you put in earplugs you can't be sure you can hear what you're playing on the guitar or if you're in tune.

But on drums you can hear everything clearly.

drums live can be a nightmare sometimes. if the room sucks, or the monitors are shitty, all you hear is the drums. you can easily lose track of where the song is. and orbert's right about the tuning. if one of your toms is too high it's gonna sound awkward, or you're playing on a kit that's tuned way too high for the music that you're playing, which happens to me all the time when i'm at a venue with a house kit (i keep my toms as low as physically possible, and i'm always tightening loose lugs).

no matter what instrument you're playing, you always have to adjust to the room, the monitors, and the people you're playing with.
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Offline TheLordOfTheStrings

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #716 on: April 28, 2015, 01:33:28 AM »
Wrote some piano and classical styled music recently. Thoughts? It's nothing amazing, but I sure had fun writing and programming! Took a while as I don't have a midi keyboard - just point and click, point and click... I did The Moonlight while I was learning how to use the program, that's why it may sound like it was done sloppily. I hope those of you who listen enjoy!  :D

https://soundcloud.com/cody-marshall-mckenna/gizmo-21
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https://soundcloud.com/cody-marshall-mckenna/the-moonlight
https://soundcloud.com/cody-marshall-mckenna/the-galaxy
« Last Edit: April 28, 2015, 01:40:39 AM by TheLordOfTheStrings »
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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #717 on: May 02, 2015, 05:53:59 AM »
I sung in what was probably the hardest concert of my life so far. One hour of a cappella music that was at best "pretty tricky" and at worst "fucking insane". Our conductor actually told me in private that he had no idea what possessed him to put together such a tricky program lol.

Anyway, it was good. We were all very pleased with the concert, especially considering the difficulty. The one thing that was sad though was the low turnout - maybe 100 people, tops had come. :(
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Offline Lucien

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #718 on: May 05, 2015, 09:27:07 PM »
So, I finished the first movement of a symphony today

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-7wjJdSKFw

cool

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #719 on: May 05, 2015, 09:37:51 PM »
Wow!  To my mind, that is the ultimate achievement as a composer.  A symphony.  A piece for the largest possible ensemble, and of course with the implicit idea that that the composition itself take advantage of that ensemble.

And it's a good one, too!

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #720 on: May 05, 2015, 09:49:25 PM »
Wow!  To my mind, that is the ultimate achievement as a composer.  A symphony.  A piece for the largest possible ensemble, and of course with the implicit idea that that the composition itself take advantage of that ensemble.

And it's a good one, too!

Thanks! I'll be showing off the movement in my composition club tomorrow. I had made a couple of other attempts at a symphony movement before, but until now I either 1. didn't have enough decent ideas to make it work and 2. didn't know enough about the structure I would be using (sonata-allegro form) as a template for the movement.

Movements 2 and 3 should be a bit easier to write, since both of them usually utilize forms that are much easier for me to grasp (ABA or Theme and Variations)  :P

The finale, however.. that will be a challenge. The themes I used in the first movement have been stewing in my head for quite a while now, since my first attempts at making a symphony movement. I guess I'll just have to practice coming up with decent melody  :P

Thanks again!
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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #721 on: May 05, 2015, 09:57:44 PM »
Thanks! I'll be showing off the movement in my composition club tomorrow.

So this is a school related project?  If so, care to share some of the books used in the class?  I personally don't have an interest in writing a symphony other than to push my mind in different directions so I am less likely to repeat myself ... myself.

I can't comment yet because the track is still playing for me right now, but so far so good.

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #722 on: May 05, 2015, 10:22:25 PM »
Thanks! I'll be showing off the movement in my composition club tomorrow.

So this is a school related project?  If so, care to share some of the books used in the class?  I personally don't have an interest in writing a symphony other than to push my mind in different directions so I am less likely to repeat myself ... myself.

I can't comment yet because the track is still playing for me right now, but so far so good.

This is actually unrelated to school. Sure, I'm in college majoring in Music Education, but I'm not in any composition classes, just music theory and ear training classes which have helped me write music that can satisfy my ear, and have helped my ears tune into what is and isn't satisfying. The composition club is just a group of music majors that write music and show it off. I'm writing the symphony for fun.

https://www.amazon.com/Musicians-Theory-Analysis-Second-Edition/dp/0393930815

That's the college textbook I have to have for the 4 semesters I take of Music Theory. However, most (if not all, I haven't actually tried this myself) of the information in that book can be found here:

https://www.musictheory.net/

Theoretically (heheh), you should be able to learn all the same things I'm learning in my theory class from the ground up as a person with no musical knowledge (I don't know if you know music at all).

So yeah, try that site.
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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #723 on: May 05, 2015, 10:56:16 PM »
Thanks for the info.  I have all the fundamentals down (and some forgotten) and the 4 part writing using triads and 7th to altered chords.  Some cadence work, etc.  But because music is just a hobby for me, I had to drop the classes in the middle of the second semester.  I bought the other books going up to 20th century music at the college bookstore.  But I'm always looking for a different take.  More about the big picture such as chord progressions and composition.  There are tons of books out there, but colleges are usually good about finding the better books.

Once again thanks.  And great work on your Symphony so far.

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #724 on: May 06, 2015, 01:41:13 AM »
What program are you using?
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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #726 on: May 08, 2015, 01:52:28 AM »
I sung in what was probably the hardest concert of my life so far. One hour of a cappella music that was at best "pretty tricky" and at worst "fucking insane". Our conductor actually told me in private that he had no idea what possessed him to put together such a tricky program lol.

Anyway, it was good. We were all very pleased with the concert, especially considering the difficulty. The one thing that was sad though was the low turnout - maybe 100 people, tops had come. :(
That's cool. Sorry to hear that the turnout was so low, that's always a bummer, especially if your concert goes well and the program is interesting.

My choir had a concert a week ago playing Rhapsody in Blue and some old musical songs. I didn't participate because I missed too many rehearsals, but I did go to see them play. I wasn't really expecting much since I didn't like the musical songs, but it was way better than expected.

Now, we're back to rehearsing Bach's Hohe Messe. Four more rehearsals to go, and after that we're playing two shows in the Netherlands and then we're going to Italy for a four-show tour!

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #727 on: May 08, 2015, 01:53:48 AM »
The Hohe Messe is amazing. One of my favourite Bach works - the Agnus Dei, especially, is beautiful.
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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #728 on: May 08, 2015, 02:23:29 AM »
Agreed. I wasn't too much of a Bach fan before, but his music is so complicated that I think you either have to have lots of classical listening experience or have to perform one of his works to start to see how brilliant it is. That surely was the case for me; I've only been listening to classical music for some 3-4 years and I finally start to see how brilliant his music is. My favourite parts of the Hohe Messe are probably the Et Resurrexit and the Confiteor/Et Expecto.

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #729 on: May 08, 2015, 02:46:54 AM »
I hope that I'll be able to sing it some time, that would definitely be amazing.

Btw, this was the centerpiece of our difficult-as-balls concert: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yz_-5KWdt2A

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #730 on: May 08, 2015, 07:19:15 AM »
I have very little singing technique, but I have pretty good pitch, so after lots of practice I now am able to sing it. Our choir isn't one of the best since it's a student choir and orchestra, but at least I think we manage to sound pretty decent. So I think you should be able to sing it as well, given that you would practice enough  :)

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #731 on: May 08, 2015, 07:21:41 AM »
Yeah, I think I'd be able to, but Bach isn't easy in general.
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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #732 on: May 08, 2015, 07:25:57 AM »
Oh yes, you're right there. The first time we reheared the Hohe Messe....  :omg:

By the way, the Hessenberg piece is pretty cool. Sounds difficult as well. Last autumn, our choir performed parts of Rachmaninoff's Liturgy of St. Chrysostom - that was really cool to do as well, though I don't think it was nearly as difficult as the piece you posted. It was fun to do as a bass though, with lots of D2s, an occasional C2 and a Bb1 at one point  :lol

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #733 on: May 09, 2015, 03:54:20 AM »
Some of the shittiest music we had to learn on my degree was by chick corea.

The two we had to learn were " Got A Match ? " and " Spain ".

I loathed both of them. Unlike most people on my degree - I left hating jazz even more than before I went. . .

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Re: All musicians unite! - The Musicians Chat Thread
« Reply #734 on: May 10, 2015, 02:41:06 PM »
Some of the shittiest music we had to learn on my degree was by chick corea.

The two we had to learn were " Got A Match ? " and " Spain ".

I loathed both of them. Unlike most people on my degree - I left hating jazz even more than before I went. . .

Haha, both classics, I've learned those too. I must say that I like that side of Jazz music a bit more than all the blue note, tsjing-tsj-tsj-tsjing music. The middle of the road kind of jazz.

I have a lot of respect for the keyboard player who actually turns knobs, pulls levers, and actively tweaks their sounds while playing. It soundd and looks much more organic and natural.

I know I'm late, but chiming in on the entire keyboard programming discussion. I've made a 180 degree turn in that over the last couple of years. I started with buying a NordStage, with the possibility to load up about 128 different pre sets. Wonderful stuff. I've toiled around with that a couple of years. With my cover band the setlist changes from night to night, so I'd be loading up the setlist every afternoon before a gig.
The biggest flaw in that is when you play often. It's pretty boring to play the same song over and over, and I know you can try to get as close to perfection as possible, but that's simply not how it works for me. But playing the same song, and knowing it will sound EXACTLY the same because of your presets, is awful. I couldn't stand it.
Then there was a grey area where I started to buy material, and stopped programming the setlist. Now I've got 4 keyboards on stage, and while they each have sounds that I use every night, they're not in that order. I just use the instruments. Which actually feels a lot more like playing music  :lol

And don't call me a nerd, Orbert!  ;)
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