Why Isn't American Football More Popular Outside of America?

[hefdaddy42]

Is tailgating at a game a uniquely American thing?

[bosk1]

Whereas I find almost everything about this clip unspeakably revolting.

Why?  I don't understand this.

- I'm very wary of group mentality or group identity. The vacuum of individualism on display in that clip approaches Triumph of the Will levels of despicable.

You are certainly entitled to not like it, for any number of reasons.  But after watching that clip, seriously, there is no basis whatsoever to find it "revolting" or "despicable."  That's such a completely inappropriate reaction to have that I cannot even comprehend it.

[rumborak]

I think Jaffa's referring to this.

Obviously for studies like this one it's easy to start complaining, but I find that Football kinda unfairly benefits from their scoring scheme. So, yes, some AF players have excellent hand-eye coordination. Some Football players produce lots of strengths, and some AF players are fast. But you can't really pick-and-choose in your rating. The averaged-out AF player will do much worse in many of the fields than what they indicate there.

rumborak

[bosk1]

That's an interesting point.  It's hard to think of a common sport where the positions are more specialized than in football.  Taking soccer as an example, sure there is specialization, and the goalie position is MUCH more specialized than any of the other positions.  But in football, you have a much higher degree of specialization.  Yeah, I can see how you'd get a very high degree of variance in studies based on which positions you were looking at.

[King Postwhore]

You know, I can add to that that the specialized roles have changed over time also.  I remember when offensive linemen were 250 lbs maybe 6 feet.  Now!!  The are in the mid  350-400 range and about 6'5".

[yorost]

You know, I can add to that that the specialized roles have changed over time also.  I remember when offensive linemen were 250 lbs maybe 6 feet.  Now!!  The are in the mid  350-400 range and about 6'5".

Makes me think of the evolution from one-platoon football.  60-70 years ago it would have been unthinkable to players as heavy as lineman are today.  I wonder if it was natural for everyone to still think in terms of one-platoon type players for a long time, before slowly getting heavier and heavier lineman.

[eric42434224]

You know, I can add to that that the specialized roles have changed over time also.  I remember when offensive linemen were 250 lbs maybe 6 feet.  Now!!  The are in the mid  350-400 range and about 6'5".

The scary part is they are just as fast and athletic...sometimes more so.

[King Postwhore]

You know, I can add to that that the specialized roles have changed over time also.  I remember when offensive linemen were 250 lbs maybe 6 feet.  Now!!  The are in the mid  350-400 range and about 6'5".

The scary part is they are just as fast and athletic...sometimes more so.

Amen eric. 

I wonder how they change their eating habits when their career is over?  The only guy I can think of that look great is Mark Schlereth.

[Fluffy Lothario]

@fluffy concerning spectacle and jets.  In the defense of the military flyovers, these are actually training missions for precision timing.  Doing them at events gives them unique situations for the pilots.

It just seems you're generalizing the fans in a very negative light.  Yeah, some take it too seriously, but I think many can laugh at themselves and are just having fun.  That similarly goes for your anti-regionalist sentiment, what's the problem with pride for home if it comes with an understanding that it is probably irrational?  All these group connections can be very healthy to living a happy life.

Okay, the jets thing makes sense.

The problem to me is if I was interested in that sport, I might want to go along, quietly have a drink (read: not jump up and down and scream myself stupid for five hours) and actually watch the game. Believe it or not, that is how some people act when they attend a sports match. I'm all for everyone having fun, but is that (i.e. enjoying the game the way I just described) even possible at a game like that? Not to mention that when you have that many people with that much of a "team army" mentality, and they're all drinking... just fuck that. I mean, a lot of peoples' response is probably the typical, "if you can't put up with an atmosphere that's that gung-ho, then don't go". And I wouldn't. Which helps to answer the question of why I, as a non-American, could never see myself getting into AF as a sport. Because I wouldn't want to inevitably have to fight my way (possibly literally) through an army of mindless drones who have been collectively thrown up on by the team's mascot. In fact, I couldn't see myself wanting to associate myself with it at all.

Also, I don't understand why the spectacle thing is a complaint. It's like you're saying people are having too much fun. Levels of fun aren't allowed to exceed certain levels. What's the big deal?

Because it's over the top and disproportionate to the event to the point of being ridiculous and almost childish. It's like the parties he throws to celebrate passing a grade in Billy Madison.

Is tailgating at a game a uniquely American thing?

Well, I had to google it just now, so...

You are certainly entitled to not like it, for any number of reasons.  But after watching that clip, seriously, there is no basis whatsoever to find it "revolting" or "despicable."  That's such a completely inappropriate reaction to have that I cannot even comprehend it.

Wastefulness and over-extravagance, ugly and likely dangerous levels of cultural conceitedness, complete lack of individualism, an inflated and aggressive sense of one's place and importance in the world (let me copy-paste right from the OP here: "I literally can't understand why the NFL isn't the most popular sport in the world") and how one asserts it... to me, those things are pretty revolting, and they're all either strongly suggested or on full display in that clip.

[bosk1]

That's such a completely inappropriate reaction to have that I cannot even comprehend it.

[rumborak]

On another note, completely aside from the sport itself, the packaging is too American at this point to be successfully marketed. Like it or not, but American values to the rest of the value look "plastic", if that makes sense. Well, and American Football is the perfect embodiment of it. I don't think it's coincidence that AF was the first to massively employ CGI in its advertisement.

[antigoon]

I used to love those dancing football robots when I was a kid

[Riceball]

First of all, you guys need to lay off cricket ok yes its very stop start and yes its long, but...well yeah I'm not going to try

As to the reason American Football isn't popular, from my perspective its pretty much for all of the reasons raised:
 - Its stop-start, where most other international sports are not.
 - Its long (which I never have a problem with, but given the above it can make watching a game seem tedious to people used to faster things).
 - Its blatantly, even proudly commercial - and coming from America some people would look at is skeptically.
 - Soccer is more widely played, widely watched, widely talked about and the like...makes it quite hard for other ball sports to gain a foothold.
 - It has a perception (at least in Australia) that its just dudes running into eachother.

I'll throw another one into the mix that I didn't see: sport plays a significant role in defining and shaping the culture of a society. Given much of the world that you guys have been talking about (Europe/Latin America) still has very deep and historical roots to European cultures from the middle of last century (hence soccer/rugby) - whereas the US went on its own path following independence etc - that also plays somewhat of a role. Its like its what you do from birth, in a way. For example: the world powers in cricket are: India (British colony), South Africa (British colony), Australia (British colony) and England (you get the idea).

But what about Asian cultures, Riceball?
I don't know much about Asian history, but from what I know they've never been big on sport or recreation, so they are like an unformed lump of clay. Hence: Japan/Korea are big into baseball because MLB went there and sort of established it as the national sport; China and basketball are similar, or at least will be similar one day.

I dunno, I don't think you can discount that factor...

Is tailgating at a game a uniquely American thing?

Its not a common thing in Australia. We generally go round to someones house and do similar things.
Either that or the pub.

[6sAllTheWay]

Is tailgating at a game a uniquely American thing?

I think so. People might go to a local pub before a football game in Europe. But there is no hanging around in the parking lot of the stadium before a game 

[King Postwhore]

It's funny, when I went to the Patriots Vs Colts in Indy in 2007, the stadium is downtown.  They don't tailgate much but go to bars and restaurants before the game while here in N.E.  The parking lots are full of tailgatrers.  Me included.

[hefdaddy42]

Tailgating is awesome.

[King Postwhore]

Yup.  Nothing better than grillin', drinking some beers and getting excited with your friends for the big game.

[lonestar]

Tailgating is awesome.

Yup.  Nothing better than grillin', drinking some beers and getting excited with your friends for the big game.

Agreed. Gotta share this story...

It was the Cal-Stanford game, late 80s, at Stanford. There is a huge group tailgating and they are playing the radio call of the last quarter from the 82 game that had The Play with the 5 lateral TD return. As the radio call gets  closer to what we all knew what was coming, everyone gathers closer together and the chatter dies. Before the kickoff, Joe Starkey, Cal's radio guy, says "Only a miracle will save the Bears now", a nervous giggle goes through the group. Then The Play happens, and the group of thirty or so peeps cheer like they had just won the pac-10 title, for a game that had happened at least five years previous.


Can't replace memories like that. That is the true heart of football, or any sport fandom for me, the memories.

[cramx3]

The band is on the field!

[lonestar]

The band is on the field!

I was at that game, that game made me a sports fan.

My grandfather took me, he was a die hard Stanfurd fan, and we sat in the middle of their rooting section. After the game, walking out dazed in disbelief at what I had just witnessed, my grandfather took time out from his own grief to pull me aside and tell me,"RJ, I want you to remember this forever. Twenty years from now, a million people will claim to have been at this game, but you have the memory, never forget it." God I loved that man.

[rumborak]

I think tailgating isn't as common in Europe because the stadiums are usually in regular cities. American stadiums are often in the middle of nowhere, so you gotta bring your own supplies.
On festivals tailgating is pretty common though.

[King Postwhore]

I think tailgating isn't as common in Europe because the stadiums are usually in regular cities. American stadiums are often in the middle of nowhere, so you gotta bring your own supplies.
On festivals tailgating is pretty common though.

I agree.  if you see my post a ways back Rumbo I had that experience in Indy where the stadium was dead middle of the city, where as in Mass with the Patriots, it's in Foxboro not Boston.  Pleanty of parking next to the stadium unlike Fenway where nobody tailgates at Sox games because there's nowhere to do so.

[yorost]

I think tailgating isn't as common in Europe because the stadiums are usually in regular cities. American stadiums are often in the middle of nowhere, so you gotta bring your own supplies.
On festivals tailgating is pretty common though.

Don't buy it.

Atlanta Falcons stadium, downtown Atlanta.  Milwaukee Brewers stadium, just off downtown Milwaukee. Chicago Bears stadium, on the lakeshore near downtown Chicago, right in with multiple tourist locations.  All of these have healthy tailgating scenes.

[DebraKadabra]

I'd also add the Astrodome and Reliant Stadium, both in Houston.  Granted, they're not downtown like Minute Maid Park is, but it's still urban enough.

[robwebster]

I think tailgating isn't as common in Europe because the stadiums are usually in regular cities. American stadiums are often in the middle of nowhere, so you gotta bring your own supplies.
On festivals tailgating is pretty common though.

Don't buy it.

Atlanta Falcons stadium, downtown Atlanta.  Milwaukee Brewers stadium, just off downtown Milwaukee. Chicago Bears stadium, on the lakeshore near downtown Chicago, right in with multiple tourist locations.  All of these have healthy tailgating scenes.

You only need it to be necessary at a certain number of them for the practice to catch on, though.

Go to a stadium in the middle of a desert - bring some snacks, have 'em in the car park. Go to a stadium in the middle of the city - "Tell you what was nice? Having those snacks in the car park." Mother of invention and that! Necessary at some stadiums, catches on all round. Never been necessary here, never caught on. Makes sense to me.

But what do I know? Where I come from, "tailgating" means a form of intimidation.

[Riceball]

Australian stadiums are very similar; no car parks or open spaces really around them but lots of cafes, bars and restaurants. So people generally meet up there before/after games. Plus there are only about 10 registered Ford F250s in the whole country...hard to tailgate out of a hatchback.

*betanAmericancoulddoitthough*

[yorost]

I think tailgating isn't as common in Europe because the stadiums are usually in regular cities. American stadiums are often in the middle of nowhere, so you gotta bring your own supplies.
On festivals tailgating is pretty common though.

Don't buy it.

Atlanta Falcons stadium, downtown Atlanta.  Milwaukee Brewers stadium, just off downtown Milwaukee. Chicago Bears stadium, on the lakeshore near downtown Chicago, right in with multiple tourist locations.  All of these have healthy tailgating scenes.

You only need it to be necessary at a certain number of them for the practice to catch on, though.

But what do I know? Where I come from, "tailgating" means a form of intimidation.

On the first line, my point was I don't think it has anything to do with stadium location.  Even with limited parking int he US tailgating happens.  ...not sure what you were getting at, I guess.

On the last line, it also has a meaning of intimidation in the US, driving to close to the person in front of you.  They're both be named from the relation to the back end of a truck.

Australian stadiums are very similar; no car parks or open spaces really around them but lots of cafes, bars and restaurants. So people generally meet up there before/after games. Plus there are only about 10 registered Ford F250s in the whole country...hard to tailgate out of a hatchback.

*betanAmericancoulddoitthough*

Yeah, most tailgating isn't done in trucks from my experience.  Portable grills are easy to buy in the US, and it's often a few cars together sharing the load of supplies.  It's just cooking and drinking in the parking lot, the vehicle isn't important.

[lonestar]

Shit, I've tailgated without a car. Just sneak a couple twelve packs and some Subway on to the local public transit, find a nice corner in the parking lot, and go at it. Soon enough, and as long as you have beer, you can work your way into other people's parties.

[Jaffa]

On the first line, my point was I don't think it has anything to do with stadium location.  Even with limited parking int he US tailgating happens.  ...not sure what you were getting at, I guess.

I think his point was that while it may not be necessary at all stadium locations, the tradition started at stadiums where it WAS necessary, and has now just become a popular tradition. 

[yorost]

I don't think anybody is entirely sure where the tradition started, though.  There are certainly numerous claims out there, but most are probably just myths.  How could we say it arose of necessity?

[Jaffa]

I have no idea how tailgating started.  I was just clarifying because you said you weren't sure what he was getting at. 

[hefdaddy42]

Shit, I've tailgated without a car. Just sneak a couple twelve packs and some Subway on to the local public transit, find a nice corner in the parking lot, and go at it. Soon enough, and as long as you have beer, you can work your way into other people's parties.

I've gone to games without the intention of tailgating, and wound up being invited to join a tailgate with people I didn't know.

Of course, I was wearing my colors.

[King Postwhore]

Shit, I've tailgated without a car. Just sneak a couple twelve packs and some Subway on to the local public transit, find a nice corner in the parking lot, and go at it. Soon enough, and as long as you have beer, you can work your way into other people's parties.

I've gone to games without the intention of tailgating, and wound up being invited to join a tailgate with people I didn't know.

Of course, I was wearing my colors.

Must.....resist......joke.....on....a......mod............

[SystematicThought]

I always love the atmosphere of tailgating. So much fun, with the sites, the smells, the sounds, and the colors. Very cool.

Pumped for the season to start

[hefdaddy42]

Shit, I've tailgated without a car. Just sneak a couple twelve packs and some Subway on to the local public transit, find a nice corner in the parking lot, and go at it. Soon enough, and as long as you have beer, you can work your way into other people's parties.

I've gone to games without the intention of tailgating, and wound up being invited to join a tailgate with people I didn't know.

Of course, I was wearing my colors.

Must.....resist......joke.....on....a......mod............

Fuck it, don't resist, if it's funny.