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Author Topic: The History of Prog: final part now up.  (Read 4110 times)

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Online lordxizor

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The History of Prog: final part now up.
« on: August 14, 2012, 07:25:48 AM »
Slate.com is having a multi-part series on the history of Prog Rock. Thought many of you might be interested in reading it. Part 1 has a brief mention of DT and PT, but is mostly a discussion of Keith Emerson. I assume they'll get to a more in depth discussion of modern prog at some point. They're too long to post here, so click on the link.

Part 1: Before it was a joke, prog was the future of rock ‘n’ roll.
https://www.slate.com/articles/arts/prog_spring/features/2012/prog_rock/history_of_prog_the_nice_emerson_lake_palmer_and_other_bands_of_the_1970s_.html

Part 2: The rise of prog, music never meant for “the average person.”
https://www.slate.com/articles/arts/prog_spring/features/2012/prog_rock/the_rise_of_prog_king_crimson_keith_emerson_and_the_futurist_sounds_of_the_1970s_.html

Part 3: Rotating drums! A $5,000 Persian rug! Quad sound! Inside ELP’s legendary 1973 Madison Square Garden concerts.
https://www.slate.com/articles/arts/prog_spring/features/2012/prog_rock/prog_comes_alive_emerson_lake_palmer_at_madison_square_garden_1973_promo_ill_cast_comedy_for_fools_the_birth_of_prog.html

Part 4: Rick Wakeman, Yes, and the insane excess that doomed prog.
https://www.slate.com/articles/arts/prog_spring/features/2012/prog_rock/the_fall_of_prog_the_insane_excess_of_rick_wakeman_and_yes_.html

Part 5: Prog lives!
https://www.slate.com/articles/arts/prog_spring/features/2012/prog_rock/prog_music_today_nearfest_kanye_west_and_the_fans_who_still_love_prog_.html
« Last Edit: August 17, 2012, 07:09:22 AM by lordxizor »
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Offline Nekov

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Re: The History of Prog
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2012, 07:42:57 AM »
Nice read. I wanna see how it continues.

By the way, I never knew Lemmy was in Hawkwind. New respect found for him
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Offline Dr. DTVT

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Re: The History of Prog
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2012, 08:16:08 AM »
Will read eventually.  Thanks for posting.
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Offline Jaq

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Re: The History of Prog
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2012, 09:32:30 AM »
Usually a history article on prog starts with a long discourse on the Beatles. This one is about Keith Emerson and the Nice.

The writer knows his stuff. And while I did know Lemmy was in Hawkwind-Hawkwind actually recorded the song Motorhead first-I'd never heard the knife story before. But it sounds SO Lemmy  :lol
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Offline wkiml

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Re: The History of Prog
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2012, 10:22:45 AM »
Quote from: Jaq on August 14, 2012, 09:32:30 AM
Usually a history article on prog starts with a long discourse on the Beatles. This one is about Keith Emerson and the Nice.

The writer knows his stuff. And while I did know Lemmy was in Hawkwind-Hawkwind actually recorded the song Motorhead first-I'd never heard the knife story before. But it sounds SO Lemmy  :lol

Didn't dive into the article yet but didn't Emerson use the knives while with ELP ?
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Offline lonestar

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Re: The History of Prog
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2012, 10:32:01 AM »
Great read, can't wait to see more.
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Offline Orbert

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Re: The History of Prog
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2012, 11:09:29 AM »
Quote from: wkiml on August 14, 2012, 10:22:45 AM
Quote from: Jaq on August 14, 2012, 09:32:30 AM
Usually a history article on prog starts with a long discourse on the Beatles. This one is about Keith Emerson and the Nice.

The writer knows his stuff. And while I did know Lemmy was in Hawkwind-Hawkwind actually recorded the song Motorhead first-I'd never heard the knife story before. But it sounds SO Lemmy  :lol

Didn't dive into the article yet but didn't Emerson use the knives while with ELP ?

He did.  He stuck knives into the keyboard as a very theatrical way of holding down certain notes while he soloed.
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Offline Zydar

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Re: The History of Prog
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2012, 11:11:24 AM »
And he used it in his previous band The Nice too, to sustain organ keys.
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Offline Orbert

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Re: The History of Prog
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2012, 11:12:57 AM »
I thought he'd done it with The Nice as well, but I wasn't quite positive.
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Online lordxizor

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Re: The History of Prog
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2012, 12:35:00 PM »
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Offline Jaq

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Re: The History of Prog
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2012, 12:45:25 PM »
Oh I knew about him using the knives on his keyboards, I just hadn't heard the story about Lemmy giving him knives as a roadie, lol.

And just after I said the guy knew his stuff, he says in the second part Bill Bruford co-founded Asia.  :rollin Probably was thinking of Wetton and Bruford being in UK.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2012, 12:51:28 PM by Jaq »
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Offline Orbert

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Re: The History of Prog
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2012, 02:42:06 PM »
Quote from: Jaq on August 14, 2012, 12:45:25 PM
And just after I said the guy knew his stuff, he says in the second part Bill Bruford co-founded Asia.  :rollin Probably was thinking of Wetton and Bruford being in UK.

Ouch!  That's unfortunate.  And yeah, he was probably thinking of U.K., although I tend to think of U.K. more as Wetton and Jobson's band.
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Offline DebraKadabra

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Re: The History of Prog
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2012, 03:38:06 PM »
Quote from: Dr. DTVT on August 14, 2012, 08:16:08 AM
Will read eventually.  Thanks for posting.

This.
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Offline Adami

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Re: The History of Prog
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2012, 03:40:37 PM »
Seems like the history of prog is pretty basic. At some point the main western 12 notes of music were created. Eventually someone figured out how to play all 12 notes in 2/9ths of a second. Thus prog was born.
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Offline jsem

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Re: The History of Prog
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2012, 03:47:21 PM »
Ha-ha.
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Online lordxizor

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Re: The History of Prog: Part 3 now up!
« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2012, 07:20:33 AM »
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: The History of Prog: Part 3 now up!
« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2012, 08:54:17 AM »
The guy in charge of this obviously loves him some ELP. :lol

Not saying Keith Emerson and the hammond organ weren't integral in those early prog years, but considering how big the mellotron is to the genre, the first article should have been about Mike Pinder and the mellotron.  I mean, Pinder and the mellotron even influenced some of the Beatles best work, for God's sake.
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Offline Jaq

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Re: The History of Prog: Part 3 now up!
« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2012, 09:23:17 AM »
The through line for these articles seems to be how prog fell apart due to excess. You don't get much more excessive than Emerson Lake and Palmer.  :lol
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Offline lonestar

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Re: The History of Prog: Part 3 now up!
« Reply #18 on: August 15, 2012, 10:19:33 AM »
Yeah, and I think the next installment is going to piss me off, "Tales from Topographic Oceans and How Excess Killed Prog". He has barely touched on Yes, and he's gonna bring them in as the genre slayer? um no.
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Offline jsem

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Re: The History of Prog: Part 3 now up!
« Reply #19 on: August 15, 2012, 10:28:29 AM »
When will he start talking about Love Beach...
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Offline Jaq

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Re: The History of Prog: Part 3 now up!
« Reply #20 on: August 15, 2012, 10:43:15 AM »
Quote from: lonestar on August 15, 2012, 10:19:33 AM
Yeah, and I think the next installment is going to piss me off, "Tales from Topographic Oceans and How Excess Killed Prog". He has barely touched on Yes, and he's gonna bring them in as the genre slayer? um no.

That's the problem with how this series has basically been "the history of how ELP fits into the larger tapestry of prog", because, as much as I love Yes-and I replayed Topographic Oceans for the first time in a couple years last night, and I think it's a fantastic album-it's pretty much undeniable that, when critics turned on prog, they went after two things: ELP's over the top flamboyance and Yes doing a double album with four side long songs on it. And as time has gone on, most writers on the history of prog-and to be fair, this guy isn't one of them-focus solely on the excess and how silly prog was, and ignore the period where prog bands were hugely successful as both touring artists and on the charts. It's become a bit of critical short hand to say "prog died with Topographic Oceans", but the sad truth is, that album certainly didn't help matters.
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Offline jingle.boy

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Re: The History of Prog
« Reply #21 on: August 15, 2012, 11:28:44 AM »
Quote from: Dr. DTVT on August 14, 2012, 08:16:08 AM
Will read eventually.  Thanks for posting.

This
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Offline lonestar

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Re: The History of Prog: Part 3 now up!
« Reply #22 on: August 15, 2012, 11:31:18 AM »
Quote from: Jaq on August 15, 2012, 10:43:15 AM
Quote from: lonestar on August 15, 2012, 10:19:33 AM
Yeah, and I think the next installment is going to piss me off, "Tales from Topographic Oceans and How Excess Killed Prog". He has barely touched on Yes, and he's gonna bring them in as the genre slayer? um no.

That's the problem with how this series has basically been "the history of how ELP fits into the larger tapestry of prog", because, as much as I love Yes-and I replayed Topographic Oceans for the first time in a couple years last night, and I think it's a fantastic album-it's pretty much undeniable that, when critics turned on prog, they went after two things: ELP's over the top flamboyance and Yes doing a double album with four side long songs on it. And as time has gone on, most writers on the history of prog-and to be fair, this guy isn't one of them-focus solely on the excess and how silly prog was, and ignore the period where prog bands were hugely successful as both touring artists and on the charts. It's become a bit of critical short hand to say "prog died with Topographic Oceans", but the sad truth is, that album certainly didn't help matters.

And in all honesty, if you want to blame something for killing prog, blame disco and cocaine. Who wants to listen to a twenty minute epic on acid when four minutes and a few lines gets you laid.
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Offline crazyaga

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Re: The History of Prog: Part 3 now up!
« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2012, 11:39:44 AM »
Quote from: lonestar on August 15, 2012, 11:31:18 AM
And in all honesty, if you want to blame something for killing prog, blame disco and cocaine. Who wants to listen to a twenty minute epic on acid when four minutes and a few lines gets you laid.
Me :3 I would prefer listening to it sober though :>
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Offline Orbert

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Re: The History of Prog: Part 3 now up!
« Reply #24 on: August 15, 2012, 11:49:14 AM »
I've never agreed with any statement as to what killed prog, because I don't agree that it actually died.  The late 60's and early 70's were a very experimental period in rock music, the broadest it had seen so far.  Rock was firmly established and had a large enough base that it could really push how far artists could take it and still call it rock.  Prog was part of that, but so was jazzfusion, early metal, and a dozen other subgenres.  So prog was doing okay, but it wasn't the only game in town.  By the late 70's, disco, punk, and other forms were becoming more popular.  They eventually became less popular and other forms of pop music came in.

People still listen to prog, just as people still listen to disco, punk, funk, or whatever they like.  It's not as big on the radio, but prog was never big on the radio.  Different types of music become more popular, then later become less popular.  Nothing lasts forever, but prog isn't "dead" so it doesn't make sense to try and pinpoint what "killed" it.
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Offline lonestar

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Re: The History of Prog: Part 3 now up!
« Reply #25 on: August 15, 2012, 11:51:41 AM »
I was just being more funny than anything else, and I agree with you. All music has it's highs, but at all times you will find a band and a fan of any genre.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: The History of Prog: Part 3 now up!
« Reply #26 on: August 15, 2012, 11:57:00 AM »
Jokes aside, it is lazy to say that disco (or anything) killed prog, but it is easy for critics to say that since Yes, the Moody Blues and ELP had hit creative lulls, they hated Rush, Genesis had started steering away from prog, King Crimson was on hiatus, etc., but nobody who really cares about music cares what critics think, but it's why misguided notions catch on and get repeated a lot.  Disco had as much to do with killing prog as grunge had to do with killing hair metal: nothing.
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Offline Orbert

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Re: The History of Prog: Part 3 now up!
« Reply #27 on: August 15, 2012, 12:10:34 PM »
Yep.  It was just something else that became popular because nothing stays hot forever.
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Online lordxizor

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Re: The History of Prog: Part 3 now up!
« Reply #28 on: August 16, 2012, 07:14:11 AM »
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Offline jsem

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Re: The History of Prog: now on Part 4
« Reply #29 on: August 16, 2012, 08:35:31 AM »
Lol. This is entertaining.
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Offline Nekov

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Re: The History of Prog: now on Part 4
« Reply #30 on: August 16, 2012, 08:39:32 AM »
Lol. The guy is obviously a die hard ELP fan. Like they didn't commit excesses too. I love Pictures at an exhibition but it's hard to enjoy it being played live. So, let's blame Yes for killing prog.  :yeahright
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Offline lonestar

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Re: The History of Prog: now on Part 4
« Reply #31 on: August 16, 2012, 10:27:29 AM »
Quote from: Nekov on August 16, 2012, 08:39:32 AM
Lol. The guy is obviously a die hard ELP fan. Like they didn't commit excesses too. I love Pictures at an exhibition but it's hard to enjoy it being played live. So, let's blame Yes for killing prog.  :yeahright

Seriously. Ignore everything Yes did to build prog up, and focus on the one album as the death blow? Fuck that.
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Offline Orbert

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Re: The History of Prog: now on Part 4
« Reply #32 on: August 16, 2012, 11:22:11 AM »
Hmm, I still haven't found the time to read this series, and now it's sounding like something I'd just as soon avoid.  From comments here, it sounds like yet another attempt to summarize something that's huge in scope and defies definition to begin with, and is bound to just end up being full of opinion rather than any reasonable analysis of known facts.  While probably amusing in the "OMG this guy's an idiot" kind of way, I deal with idiots all day, and do not seek them out in my free time.
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Offline lonestar

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Re: The History of Prog: now on Part 4
« Reply #33 on: August 16, 2012, 12:37:34 PM »
It's worth the read, even as one sided as it is. Good history on ELP, and for a proper history of Yes, I can always go here...

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=32530.0


 ;)
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Offline Orbert

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Re: The History of Prog: now on Part 4
« Reply #34 on: August 16, 2012, 01:01:16 PM »
;)
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