The official Opeth thread v. Bring on the new album!

[MoraWintersoul]

DC, on this forum you're gonna get worse reactions criticizing Opeth in the Opeth thread or Steven Wilson in the Steven Wilson thread than Dream Theater anywhere on the forum, because that's just the way it is

[KevShmev]

My thoughts on Pale Communion:

The largest disappointment by far is that it's not even terrible. It's not laughably bad, it's not plain terrible, nor is it surprisingly good. Instead, this is the most bland 55 minutes of music I've ever listened to. I can tell you that there's a beginning and an end to the album, but that's about it. It's in no way an album that takes multiple listens because there's new parts to discover with each listen, rather it's an album that takes multiple listens because you can't remember what happened over the past 54 minutes. There are some neat sections hidden in this album, buried six feet deep, that shows Opeth has one or two ideas that still rock, but as soon as they pop up, the angry villagers are on top of it, and bash it back underground, underneath another 4-8 minutes of meandering music. Another thing that I found increasingly funny were the pseudo heavy riffs that Mikael must have put in to attempt to satisfy those who got a sour taste in their mouth from Heritage. But they come across as shallow and don't satisfy whatsoever. Mikael makes some cringeworthy decisions with his vocals as well, and as much as I'd love to point out sections where I think so, I literally couldn't tell you where, all I know is that I cringed at times, and that there was music playing.

Opeth is dead to me, and no it's not because they don't play TEH HEAVYZ WITH TEH HARSHY HARSH VOCALS, it's because they've become a bland as fuck band that sound nothing like themselves.

0/5

I don't like to give 0/5's because it's usually too harsh, but this is one of the first times I've ever felt like I wasted my time listening to music.

Out of curiosity, what grades do you give albums that actually are, IYO, terrible?  If an album that is "not even terrible" gets 0/5, do terrible albums get -1/5, -2/5, etc?

[Dark Castle]

Protest the Hero's latest album Volition, which was a massive disappointment for me(although it's not because it's terrible, I could go into an entire paragraph of reasons for why it disappointed me so much), got a 2.5/5 from me.
Some of the stuff my friends listen to, like Chelsea Grin for example, I fucking hate them, but I'd give their latest album Ashes to Ashes about a 1.5-2/5. To get a 0/5 from me is extremely rare, and the only way you'll ever see one from me is like this case right here. The fact that I spent about an hour actively listening to this album, and came away with absolutely nothing from it is worse than if you make terrible music. The guys in Opeth have so much talent, and the fact that for such talented guys they left me feeling absolutely nothing, and remembering only a blur of music hurts a lot more than Chelsea Grin playing a shitty, yet catchy song in which there's just palm muted guitars.

[Buddyhunter1]

Just finished my first listen.

As someone who actually thought Heritage was a great album, this one feels... disappointing.

Of course I need a few more listens to form a complete opinion, but compared to Heritage, this album feels a lot less atmospheric and more bland. I was really hoping they would tone down the blatant 70s influence, but it honestly feels like the opposite happened.

One thing I really don't get is how most of the people early on said that this album is a lot more focused and concise in the songwriting compared to Heritage. Again, it seems to me that the opposite is true. Tracks like Eternal Rains and River sound pretty unfocused and shift moods too much, and Moon Above Sun Below is one of the most meandering, directionless songs I've ever heard from the band. Maybe it'll grow on me, but jeez...

So yeah, my first impressions of the album aren't that great, but I think it'll be a grower. It really seems like a worse album than Heritage though, which nobody else seems to be saying.

[KevShmev]

DC, maybe you should wait till autumn to listen to it.   Seriously, I always find Opeth's music not very enjoyable in the summer time.  Certain bands are perfect for certain times of the year, and Opeth is an autumn/winter band.  Hell, I remember when Watershed came out in I think June of 2008; even though I bought the CD immediately, I didn't listen to it till September or October.

Granted, you are so anti-Opeth now that I don't think it will matter, but I was just offering out a friendly suggestion.

And while I think your rating system is silly, I have no problem with how you worded your review.  Even if it was outright bashing, this isn't an Opeth forum, so they aren't on the "you can't talk bad about them" list, as far as I know.

[Dark Castle]

DC, maybe you should wait till autumn to listen to it.   Seriously, I always find Opeth's music not very enjoyable in the summer time.  Certain bands are perfect for certain times of the year, and Opeth is an autumn/winter band.  Hell, I remember when Watershed came out in I think June of 2008; even though I bought the CD immediately, I didn't listen to it till September or October.

Granted, you are so anti-Opeth now that I don't think it will matter,

Um... Autumn here in Florida is what regular Summer is everywhere else, we're lucky if it gets cool in the Winter. I'm not one of those people who finds bands are better at certain times of the year either, I don't think like that, so I can assure you how I feel about this album would be the same had I listened to it in the Autumn.

Also I am not "Anti-Opeth", I'm pretty sure that I have stated many, many times that overall I love what Opeth has put out. No matter how much I may dislike where they're going, I will always love Opeth, this path they're going down now doesn't negate the fact that for 15 years or so they released music that I love. Their future output is not anything I look forward to as of right now, and I was being a bit melodramatic when I said Opeth is dead to me, but I'm not "anti-Opeth".

[KevShmev]

Anti-Opeth might not have been the best way to put it, but I think you probably know what I meant (mostly how you summed it up).  We've gone round and round on this enough to where I know what the score is.  

[King Postwhore]

Yup.  July and 90 degrees in FLA.  It's fall.

[MoraWintersoul]

Yeah, but you kinda can't put him in a basket and say "ah-hah, this is the specimen that hates Opeth's change in direction. a lot of these people hate changes in directions because they're not able of handling their favorite bands changing". Even if it were like that, yeah, there are people who can't handle a change in direction despite listening to everything from pop to post electro dub prog, and what are we going to do about it? You can't tell them they're wrong. Holy heck, sometimes I wish Steven Wilson would resurrect Porcupine Tree to perform Taylor Swift covers exclusively, just so that I could see how people would defend his artistic decision. One has every right to believe that Opeth aren't doing good albums right now, and that it coincides with the change in direction.

He's completely entitled to ascribing any rating he wants to his review, because it's not like he's a one man webzine and needs to maintain a consistent rating system. In fact, this is why I gave up on writing rated reviews - music fans care more about the numbers than your review.

[senecadawg2]

I've only listened to the album 3 full times and a couple tracks a little more than that, but as of right now I'm unsure.

While I disagree with a lot of what DC said in his post, I do somewhat agree with him on the album sounding a bit bland. It's odd, because even as I try my best to pay close attention to what's happening nothing really grabs me. That isn't to say that any of it sounds particularly bad to me, in fact I would say the opposite is true. Almost all of it sounds quite nice to me. But that, somehow, just doesn't quite cut it for me. I tend to prefer musically flawed albums that can a) grab my attention and b) hold it. Here, I can't really point to any flaws getting in the way of my enjoying the album, I'm just not sure there's anything to pull me back either. Even now on my fourth listen, something seems to be missing for me.

The one somewhat disappointing thing that I can point to, at this point is this:

One thing I really don't get is how most of the people early on said that this album is a lot more focused and concise in the songwriting compared to Heritage. Again, it seems to me that the opposite is true. Tracks like Eternal Rains and River sound pretty unfocused and shift moods too much, and Moon Above Sun Below is one of the most meandering, directionless songs I've ever heard from the band.

With all of that said, I look forward to getting the album when it comes out and I'll certainly listen to it several times both before and after that point. And maybe my opinion will change. It wouldn't be the first time on an Opeth album, which have all significantly grown on me over time.

[TioJorge]

DC...saying 'Opeth is dead to me' and the borderline-bashing "review" kind of begs the question "Why are you still here"? Which isn't to say I don't want you to not post, but (and I'll say this as lightly as I can for fear of being blasted) with how much negativity and utter 'do not want' your posts have been conveying in this thread for quite some time...I just don't see what you're getting out of this by repeating 'I've wasted time, I don't remember anything, it's unmemorable, I can't recall etc. etc. etc. etc.'. I get that you still like the old material but...I doubt there's gonna be much discussion on old material for a while. It doesn't seem very discussion-worthy to just keep shitting everywhere. That sounds bad but there's really no other way to say how your posts have been coming across (in this thread) recently. There's 'dislike/hate' with a well-thought review detailing the parts not liked and/or constructive criticism (or even just criticism)...and then there's what you've been posting, a whole other level of hate. Something I understand, it really sucks when you want to like an album and just don't, but there's also a point when you gotta ask if enough is enough.

Borderline bashing? Are you fucking kidding me? I posted my thoughts on the album, and it's not bashing just because I'm extremely disappointed. Like I've said multiple times before, while I don't like where Opeth is at all these days, I still love the past 20 years of material before this (don't love Heritage, but I like it sort of) I don't see why I have to stop posting here because it's bullshit to say discussion on the old material won't happen, because it sure as hell will. Pale Commumion will get talked about and then it'll be right back to normal with people talking about older material or whatever.
I have a right to post my opinion, and just because you happen to love what they're doing now, I don't have to, and I have every right to talk about why I don't. I'm not "shitting" all over this thread, and honestly I don't really appreciate you insulting me like that.

Ariich pretty much covered any rebuttals I had, but I'll say them out of desire. First and foremost, I don't know where this hostility is coming from when I thought I was pretty cordial considering my usual posting style. I truly apologize if you were offended; I was giving my thoughts on a review that I thought was pretty hostile itself. I never said that you're bashing them, I said it was 'near-bashing' and I don't think that's uncalled for; it was an observation that I made. That has absolutely nothing to do with you not liking the album. I understand that you don't like this direction, you've made that abundantly clear by now; I have no problem with people downright hating this direction, many do, it's simply the way you went about writing it that seemed off to me. I don't want you to stop posting, I explicitly said I do NOT want that. I also did not say that discussion on the old material won't happen, I said it's probably not going to be discussed much for a while, which is more than likely given that they just released a new album. Of course we'll be discussing old albums again, but it's probably not going to be that abundant given the new album isn't even officially released yet.

And this:

Did you not read Tio's post?
He's pretty much telling me to stop posting in here, and said I'm bashing the band, when all I am doing is giving an honest review. I'm not insulting members of the band, I'm not insulting people who like this album, I'm giving my honest thoughts on it, and I shouldn't have to put up with people trying to push me out just because they disagree.

Tio told me to stop posting in here because he doesn't like my opinion. I take insult to that.

Is downright shoving words in my mouth. I have no problems with your opinion, it's the way that it was written that I took notice to. You're the one I'm questioning whether you read my post, not Ariich. Go back and read my post carefully. 'Pushing you out'? I'm doing absolutely nothing of the sort, not even close. I'm sorry if I offended you, but you're blowing this way out of proportion and making faulty claims. I made no attacks to you, or even your review, I gave insight into what I thought was a poorly written review that was 'borderline' bashing, and I absolutely stand by that statement. If you blow a gasket over someone giving constructive criticism of your review, you shouldn't be posting reviews, especially ones worded the way yours was. I get it, you don't like it; but there are much better ways to word it than you have; that was my point. Which clearly wasn't received. I had no intention of starting anything and did my best to tip toe around; apologies for failing but I don't think I did or said anything that was out of bounds. The only thing that even comes close is the shitting comment, which I agree was poorly worded, but it's far from 'insulting you'; it was an observation on the way you've been posting in this thread recently, nothing more.

I've said my piece. I appreciate your thoughts and defending my backside while I was away, Ariich, truly. Back on track:

I cannot get over how much I love Voice of Treason, it's got a really addictive flow to it and I think it's the most 'opeth-y' track on the album. But every time I finish the album, I'm left wanting more; it's a good couple tracks (even if they were longer tracks) less than what they usually put out so I'm really hoping for some b-sides. But for what's on there, it's a very concise record and I'm sure that's why it's on the shorter-end (for them); so some bonus stuff would really benefit them I think, especially this time around. Although I'm not holding my breath, I'm quite happy with what they've given us but it'd make the tracks that I'm not so gung-ho about (Cusp and Moon at this point) a lot less of a hit to the overall record if there were a couple more.

All in all, I think it's safe to say that the guys have found a new niche to carve out for themselves and I'm really excited to see what the masses have to say after it officially releases. Moreover, I'm doubly excited for what's next; if this is received a bit better (and already is) than Heritage, this could be an awesome new style for the guys that still retains that genuine sound they've created over the years.

[fadetoblackdude7]

Just finished my first listen. Dunno why everyone thinks it's 'bland,' I thought it was a very interesting record, and the natural progression from Heritage. Eternal Rains, Moon, River and Faith are all great Opeth tracks IMO. I only hope it'll get better with more listens.

[Dark Castle]

You specifically posted this in direct response to my review:

To each their own, just...wow.

Wow, that's not rude at all 

And as far as it concerns me, saying I'm borderline-bashing is still saying I'm bashing, you're just dressing it up to not lay it on so thick.

"DC...saying 'Opeth is dead to me' and the borderline-bashing "review" kind of begs the question "Why are you still here"? Which isn't to say I don't want you to not post, but (and I'll say this as lightly as I can for fear of being blasted) with how much negativity and utter 'do not want' your posts have been conveying in this thread for quite some time...I just don't see what you're getting out of this by repeating 'I've wasted time, I don't remember anything, it's unmemorable, I can't recall etc. etc. etc. etc.'. I get that you still like the old material but...I doubt there's gonna be much discussion on old material for a while. It doesn't seem very discussion-worthy to just keep shitting everywhere. That sounds bad but there's really no other way to say how your posts have been coming across (in this thread) recently. There's 'dislike/hate' with a well-thought review detailing the parts not liked and/or constructive criticism (or even just criticism)...and then there's what you've been posting, a whole other level of hate. Something I understand, it really sucks when you want to like an album and just don't, but there's also a point when you gotta ask if enough is enough."

All this says is to me is "DC you whine a lot so why bother posting in this thread?"
I enjoy Heritage, I may not like it nearly as much as previous Opeth and I may have posted both my positive and negative thoughts about it before, but Pale Communion's the first time I've felt that I wasted my time, this hasn't been a recurring thing for me, it's a brand new slap to the face, even if I sort of expected it. I wanted Opeth to prove me wrong, I wanted to see them show me that their new direction could be fantastic, not some stale bland homage to the past. And when it didn't(IMO so you don't accuse me of bashing them right here), I organized my thoughts on it, took the time to type them out, knowing they might be a little unpopular, and posted it to discuss and debate with others. Zantera filled that criteria as he often does, he's a good lad to talk about music with, and things seemed to be going fine, until you just shat all over my thoughts, writing them off as hating, and spewing shit.
To reduce everything I've said to being a hater, and shitting everywhere, when I spent a lot of time putting up my opinions on matters ranging from this album to past discussions is just a real cruddy thing of you to do, it's as though you're reducing my thought out posts to diarrhea.
You may not have meant to put it that way, but that's absolutely how you did word it sooooooooo eyep.

[TioJorge]

 
Done and done. I tried to be polite and apologized numerous times. No worries man.

Just finished my first listen. Dunno why everyone thinks it's 'bland,' I thought it was a very interesting record, and the natural progression from Heritage. Eternal Rains, Moon, River and Faith are all great Opeth tracks IMO. I only hope it'll get better with more listens.

I don't get it either. If someone had called Heritage bland, I'd at least see the way they could think that. With this album, I'm more inclined to ask if perhaps there's partial hearing loss.  I hear the exact opposite of bland, but then again it's as the old saying goes, "People have different ear holes!".

[nobloodyname]

Oh my goodness, this album is soporific.

I grew to like Ghost Reveries on release, learned to cope with the growling, and Watershed was okay. Heritage to me felt like a different band entirely. It seems this album is continuing in that vein.

[senecadawg2]

Just finished my first listen. Dunno why everyone thinks it's 'bland,' I thought it was a very interesting record, and the natural progression from Heritage. Eternal Rains, Moon, River and Faith are all great Opeth tracks IMO. I only hope it'll get better with more listens.

I don't get it either. If someone had called Heritage bland, I'd at least see the way they could think that. With this album, I'm more inclined to ask if perhaps there's partial hearing loss.  I hear the exact opposite of bland, but then again it's as the old saying goes, "People have different ear holes!".

I don't know that bland is the right word. I'm just having a surprising amount of difficulty thinking back on anything that got me really excited, and the couple that I do remember were few and far between. Heritage was different for me when I listened to it the first four or five times (as I have PC now). There were some songs that I found sub-par compared to most Opeth songs, and some I thought were great. Overall I thought there was too much of the former and I never could get too excited about the album as a result. In contrast, this one doesn't feel hit or miss. It's just a little more forgettable for me. And if it wasn't Opeth then I probably wouldn't still be listening to it.

But it is Opeth, and so I will continue to listen for a while. And hopefully things will start to sink in and I'll eventually agree wholeheartedly with you.

[kirksnosehair]

It's amazing how many people have heard an unreleased album     


I keep seeing comparisons to Heritage.  I guess I'm moving on from Opeth. 

[Buddyhunter1]

It's amazing how many people have heard an unreleased album     


I keep seeing comparisons to Heritage.  I guess I'm moving on from Opeth.

To be fair, it was originally supposed to come out last month.

But yeah, if you didn't like Heritage, you're not gonna like this one.

[TioJorge]

I think that's a safe bet. Kirk, is it really so amazing in '14 when music sales are the lowest they've ever been?  Granted, I've got my copy reserved already so I've done my part. But yeah, I doubt most of the downloads will have an album accompanying them. The internetz.

[Dark Castle]

Physical cd and digital album sales may be slowing down, but record sales and streaming are sky rocketing, the industry's doing just fine, it's just adapting is all.

[Buddyhunter1]

Welp, five listens in and this is easily one of the worst Opeth albums I've heard. My first impression that it's essentially a more generic, less atmospheric, and more directionless version of Heritage still stands.

Faith In Others is a fantastic song, but the rest just ranges from good to mediocre. Sigh...
The fact that Heritage is in my top five Opeth albums and that this is at the very bottom is such a disappointment.

[PixelDream]

I'm feeling this more than Heritage. Overall it has more melodies that I like. First listen wasn't that good but multiple listens are definitely rewarding.

[adace]

Album's getting better with each listen. The only song that hasn't really clicked with me yet is Voice of Treason.

[Xenon]

It's good. Not Amazing, but good. Better than Heritage. Last track is a masterpiece.

[Rattlehead]

It seems to me like some people made their decision on whether they like this album or not before they even listened to it  Personally, I like everything I've listened to so far and I am absolutely stoked to purchase this album as soon as possible 

[Buddyhunter1]

It seems to me like some people made their decision on whether they like this album or not before they even listened to it 

Hey, I went in with moderate expectations, thinking I would like it, and it turned out to be a lot worse than what I was expecting.

[King Postwhore]

Saying moderate means you had reservations about this album before you heard it.

[Buddyhunter1]

Well what can I say, they're one of my favorite bands, so I can at least expect a new album from them to be of somewhat good quality.

Sorry I'm not a robot who can go into an album with absolutely no expectations or previous thoughts.

[King Postwhore]

I'll be the first to agree that Heritage didn't fully pull me in.  I think it misses melody and structure at times that they had with the growling albums

[rumborak]

Loved Heritage, looking forward to this one.

[Heretic]

I really like Pale Communion, actually. Not a fan of Heritage but the songs on this one have much more structure and the atmosphere is just better. Definitely an improvement, and if this is how Opeth is going forward without growls, that's fine by me, I guess.

[ariich]

I would say the album has more in common with Damnation than with Heritage. More in the way of energetic songs, obviously, but the overall tone and sound feels much closer to that than to the meanderings and dated sound of Heritage (not that I dislike Heritage, but I don't love it).

[bout to crash]

Ugh. I hate having to stop reading threads because people are too impatient to wait for albums to actually be released. Maybe I'm turning into an old geezer (i.e. Steven Wilson), but it's fucking annoying.

[Zantera]

I can understand that reasoning if we're talking about a movie or tv-show when it comes to ruining the plot, but how do you (just with words) ruin music for someone else? Just curious. I haven't heard it yet myself, but so far I haven't experienced any "spoilers".

[The King in Crimson]

Well, speaking for myself at least, it is kind of annoying that when the music is actually, legitimately released, a substantial number of people are usually already done talking about it.