The official Opeth thread v. Bring on the new album!

[Mladen]

To me, Heritage sounds like a 70s prog rock album quite a bit, you can hear influences from several bands, but overall it's not like it sounds exactly like a Camel or a VdGG album. It's its own thing.

[Zantera]

I think both Opeth and Steven Wilson are sadly wearing their influences a bit too much on their sleeves, the main difference IMO is that SW's last two albums (especially GFD) are great albums, where Heritage is an okay album that just feels like a homage to other bands, without bringing anything good to the table. If you want to make a homage kind of album with music that plays to your influences, you're gonna have to outshine that fact by making some quality music to compensate for it. IMO it's hard to defend an album that has zero originality and not much quality to compensate with.

And with the case of Heritage it's not like Mikael went out and ripped off one or two bands. This is a bit of a side story, but follow me for a moment. Here in Sweden, in our biggest Rock/Metal magazine, Mikael has a column each month where he recommends one of his favorite albums. These albums are often Progressive Rock albums from the 70's, and often bands that aren't the biggest of the classics, but some bands like Goblin, Camel and a bunch of other, more unknown and obscure bands. While I haven't looked up entire discographies or albums by any of these bands, I have looked up a few individual songs for some of them, and you can really hear many of those influences on Heritage. It's not as easy as with SW when you can joke about him making a King Crimson/Jethro Tull cover-band, in the case with Opeth the influences are A. more bands B. more obscure/unknown bands. The influences are still there and they are kinda apparent.

But in the end it does come down to originality and/or quality. Why listen to an album that mimics much better albums, unless that album has really good quality to back it up with?

[?]

I really don't see how Heritage is some vastly different and unexpected musical direction. Hints of it are all over Opeth's older works, especially Ghost Reveries and Watershed. I'm listening to Hours of Wealth right now, and the song reminds me a lot of Heritage and specifically Famine. A lot. There are parts even on Blackwater Park that sound like Heritage. Heritage is Mikael basically stripping out the metal and focusing largely on one or two aspects of his style.

If we use Cusp of Eternity as a fresh example, it has an Arabic vibe like a lot of older Opeth songs, and the wordless vocals in the chorus remind me of Master's Apprentices and Ghost of Perdition.

[Dark Castle]

I can't really name any bands, but it just feels like recycled, weak as fuck 70's prog, save for The Devil's Orchard, I Feel The Dark, and Nepenthe.

Okay, posts like this do not help your cause.

You: Heritage sounds like a bunch of 70s prog bands.

Someone else: What bands?

You: I don't know.

See what I mean?

If a band started putting out Nu Metal that was recycled, I could tell you it sounds recycled as fuck without knowing many bands.
I can't place bands, but Heritage sounds like a montage of shit or trying to hard to be something I've already heard or something a friend who listens to more 70's music has shown me.

[PolarizeMe]

If we use Cusp of Eternity as a fresh example, it has an Arabic vibe like a lot of older Opeth songs, and the wordless vocals in the chorus remind me of Master's Apprentices and Ghost of Perdition.

I thought I was the only one who thought there was a bit of an Arabic vibe with some of Opeth's songs, especially on Cusp of Eternity.

[Ben_Jamin]

If we use Cusp of Eternity as a fresh example, it has an Arabic vibe like a lot of older Opeth songs, and the wordless vocals in the chorus remind me of Master's Apprentices and Ghost of Perdition.

I thought I was the only one who thought there was a bit of an Arabic vibe with some of Opeth's songs, especially on Cusp of Eternity.

Haxprocess has an arabic vibe to me in the arpeggiated section.

[RandalGraves]

Well, I suppose I'm in the minority that really loved Heritage, although I completely understand why an Opeth fan wouldn't.

I've read some stellar reviews regarding Pale Communion, especially for those who didn't take to Heritage very kindly.  My initial impression for PC is not very good, save for the first and last two songs, though.

I'll be curious to get all of your opinions, once you get around to checking it out.

[Dark Castle]

It's such a bland, forgettable album

[TioJorge]

I just finished it and I really loved it for the most part. It's definitely more robust, dynamic and got a lot more oomph than Heritage by far and away. I don't think it'll sway any haters of the new style or people who didn't like that direction but if you were on the edge and just wanted 'more', it might tickle your nipple. There were a few moments I didn't immediately connect with, mainly parts of Moon Above, Sun Below, and some of River but other than that it's very focused and definitely has that classic Opeth-atmosphere; that rainy, misty forest feel...but strays here and there to bring something fresh and different. It does however have moments that really breathe and slows down, though in far less quantity than Heritage; I think it's a great balance, it has a lot more twists and turns.

It's gonna need a lot of plays but I really like it. Even though there's a lot of ups and downs, there's a specific vibe throughout that's very Opeth but still very different, and I like it...it's still ominous and brooding, with moments of light. Goblin is my favorite instrumental in a long time.

Favorite overall is Voice of Treason (Faith In Others is pretty epic too, and the way they flow into each other is perfect). Very awesome feels. I'm gonna love cranking this up on a night drive in November.

Ed: It's a grower to be sure, but the more I play it the more I like it; it's got lots of atmosphere. Elysian Woes.  It's a great companion album to Heritage and is a clear evolution of it. The artwork fits a lot better now that I've heard it too.

[adace]

Really good album. It's the proper successor to Watershed and much better than Heritage. It has pretty much everything I'd want from an Opeth album: it's cohesive, dynamic, and it has a beautiful, dark atmosphere. This will be on my playlist for a long time to come.

Favorites so far: Eternal Rains Will Come, Cusp of Eternity, Elysian Woes, River, Faith in Others

[JRundquist]

I did a proper review of Pale Communion here, where I go track by track:

https://thatdrummerguy.weebly.com/reviews/opeth-pale-communion-2014

It's also in my new Review thread:
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=41939.0

[Dark Castle]

My thoughts on Pale Communion:

The largest disappointment by far is that it's not even terrible. It's not laughably bad, it's not plain terrible, nor is it surprisingly good. Instead, this is the most bland 55 minutes of music I've ever listened to. I can tell you that there's a beginning and an end to the album, but that's about it. It's in no way an album that takes multiple listens because there's new parts to discover with each listen, rather it's an album that takes multiple listens because you can't remember what happened over the past 54 minutes. There are some neat sections hidden in this album, buried six feet deep, that shows Opeth has one or two ideas that still rock, but as soon as they pop up, the angry villagers are on top of it, and bash it back underground, underneath another 4-8 minutes of meandering music. Another thing that I found increasingly funny were the pseudo heavy riffs that Mikael must have put in to attempt to satisfy those who got a sour taste in their mouth from Heritage. But they come across as shallow and don't satisfy whatsoever. Mikael makes some cringeworthy decisions with his vocals as well, and as much as I'd love to point out sections where I think so, I literally couldn't tell you where, all I know is that I cringed at times, and that there was music playing.

Opeth is dead to me, and no it's not because they don't play TEH HEAVYZ WITH TEH HARSHY HARSH VOCALS, it's because they've become a bland as fuck band that sound nothing like themselves.

0/5

I don't like to give 0/5's because it's usually too harsh, but this is one of the first times I've ever felt like I wasted my time listening to music.

[TioJorge]

 

To each their own, just...wow.

River clicked. It's a really interesting track for an album that's so gothic sounding. It's almost lighthearted and it's got some smooth guitar work. It's got it's dark parts but it's like the one shining moment in an album that's made up of mostly obscure, psychedelic brooding moments.

Argh, I kinda wish it had another track or two! Here's hoping they have some b-sides to release..I really, really love the way Voice of Treason sounds...that initial groove of what sounds like strings is very catchy. I might have to get the collector's edition for the art; I also really need to see this one performed live.

[Bolsters]

I like the idea of what these albums are (Damnation, Heritage and now Pale Communion) more than the actual albums. The songs just meander along too much, and they all sound the same. No variety on these albums at all and no conciseness either. I don't hate them, I just can't find much of interest in them.

[Zantera]

So basically we have the fanboy camp (aka people who will say this album is a 5/5 no matter what) and we have the total opposite camp with Dark Castle (aka people who will say this album is a 0/5 no matter what).

I haven't had time to hear this yet, but I would imagine I'll end up in the middle of those extremes. Heritage for me was pretty much the average line you draw in between. It wasn't bad, it wasn't great.. it had some good ideas with some flawed execution. Overall slightly dry and dull, but not bad or awful. I could see myself liking Pale Communion more, because Heritage didn't set the bar high, but on the other hand, my interest in the new wave of 70s prog rock revival and how uninspiring it feels listening to recent Opeth, Steven Wilson or Pain of Salvation albums is just not there.

Best case scenario, this is a good little album. But the whole 70s trend is just so stale that there's no way Opeth are gonna top their best albums with this one.

[Dark Castle]

So basically we have the fanboy camp (aka people who will say this album is a 5/5 no matter what) and we have the total opposite camp with Dark Castle (aka people who will say this album is a 0/5 no matter what).

I'm a fan of Opeth though, I may not like the new direction nearly as much, but I don't see how I'm in the total opposite camp. I'm just a fan who's severely disappointed. I have legitimate reasons as to why, I don't sling zeroes out of fives at bands I totally hate even.

[Onno]

Sorry, but I don't really understand how you can give a 0/5 and then say you're not in the total opposite camp (regarding the new album) 
Anyway, too bad you didn't like it I'm going to listen to it when I get the CD, probably not any earlier.

[me7]

After one listen, the most memorable aspect for me wasn't the songwriting but the audio quality.
The album sounds amazing. Not excessive dynamics compression, no brickwalling, no clipping. Everything sound natural and the drums pack a decent punch.
I can see myself listening to it a lot over the coming weeks for the sound alone.

The actual music was enjoyable, but not memorable. It's 201x Opeth on autopilot. I'm curious whether the songs will grow on me or get boring, both is possible.

[Xersiz]

I Dare To Say but after the second listening, i think it is one of the best opeth albums, alongside Watershed and Still Life... although it has "The Heritage Progginess", the album amazingly captures the Opeth Vibe with dark and almost evil melodies. Moon Above,Sun Below i think might be the new Hessian Peel which is a personal favorite of mine and oh my god what a great haunting song Faith in Others is with amazing use of strings and Mikael's vocals. I can give it a clean 4/5 after second listening and it might increase after multiple listens

 

Moon Above, Sun Below

River

Faith In Others

 

Eternal Rains Will Come

Goblin

Voice OF Treason

 

Cusp Of Eternity

Elysian Woes

[GentlemanofDread]

Sounds like I need to make Pale Communion my first full Opeth album, then.

[Zantera]

So basically we have the fanboy camp (aka people who will say this album is a 5/5 no matter what) and we have the total opposite camp with Dark Castle (aka people who will say this album is a 0/5 no matter what).

I'm a fan of Opeth though, I may not like the new direction nearly as much, but I don't see how I'm in the total opposite camp. I'm just a fan who's severely disappointed. I have legitimate reasons as to why, I don't sling zeroes out of fives at bands I totally hate even.

The last part is the one that has me puzzled though. Having zero interest in what direction a band is taking surely affects your opinion, but doesn't quality as well? I did not care for the direction that SW is taking, and Raven was a disappointment to me in that sense. Still, even though I had zero interest in the musical direction, the album itself is not bad. Now, Raven might be better than Pale Communion, but even if you have zero interest in the direction, giving the album a 0 out of 5 when you state that you don't even give bands you hate that low number, that means you think the new album is that bad. I could understand it if you gave it a 1.5 or 2 out of 5 and said "it's okay for what it is I guess, it's just not my thing".

I mean cool if you don't like it. I haven't even heard it myself, so it might "suck ass". I just didn't follow your reasoning behind giving it a 0, that's all. I've said it before, my interest in new artists making 70s sounding prog rock is at the bottom. Even if this ends up being a good 70s sounding prog rock album, and a fine album for Opeth, it won't come near breaking my top15 albums of the year so far.

[Dark Castle]

I think it's the most bland album I've ever listened to,  a band that I love put it out, and I can't even describe what I listened to because it just went in one ear and out the other, I think at least as far as my reasoning, the 0/5 makes sense.

I fucking hate Nicki Minaj as an artist, but there's a song or two of hers that I actually don't mind if not like. I can find something in her music that I can at the very least latch on to and remember. I couldn't even do that with this album. Nothing in this album stuck with me, I usually take the time walking to school to listen to new albums since I can just immerse myself into them, and I got to school thinking I was only a couple songs in and the album was just about over, and I couldn't remember much if anything about the past 7 songs I'd just listened to. That's worse to me than music I just don't like period, because even with music I just plain don't like, I can at least remember it.

[Zantera]

That's fine, but we're still talking just one listen though, right? An album could always grow on you. But if you hated Heritage and have no interest in the 70s stuff, then I doubt it will. I'm kinda in a similar camp, except I expect that I will like the new Opeth, I just don't think Opeth is that magical band anymore. I'll probably like the new album, but the days when Opeth were my favorite band and put out only strong albums is long gone now.

[Dark Castle]

When I listened to Heritage for the first time, I didn't really like it, but there were songs such as The Devil's Orchard, I Feel The Dark, and Nepenthe that had me come back because I really liked those, and the rest of the album while it didn't float my boat at first stuck in my head.
I have nothing like that from this album. I remember hearing a moment here and there, but all I know is that they're somewhere in 53 other minutes of music that I can't even remember, and at this point, I can't even remember the small sections I liked a little bit.

I don't want to listen to this more, to see if it grows, I don't want to feel like I've wasted another 55 minutes of my life when I couldn't even remember anything about it the first time I spent listening to it.

[TioJorge]

I love how the album just starts off immediately zany and quirky, I had to double check other releases to make sure I didn't have a faulty copy at first.  It's great though, it's like they immediately wanted to make a statement about how different this is from Heritage. Eternal Rains is really groovy. I still haven't connected all that much with Moon Above but I like the ending, it's just that first section that's kinda throwing me through a loop.

Zant, where are you getting the fanboy camp from?  I have seen zero reviews that are anywhere near close to being fanboy level. Every one of 'em has some comment about how a track doesn't stand out as much and/or they just don't like one or two tracks; even the most glowing reviews. At least here, I'm not sure about any official reviews. '5/5 no matter what'...where? I don't rate anymore, especially a daft number system, but it's definitely not perfect. It's not my favorite Opeth release, but I do like it very much. Cusp has kinda worn on me though, which is to expected, but the novelty has definitely lingered long enough to where it's just not gonna be played as much for a bit.

DC...saying 'Opeth is dead to me' and the borderline-bashing "review" kind of begs the question "Why are you still here"? Which isn't to say I don't want you to not post, but (and I'll say this as lightly as I can for fear of being blasted) with how much negativity and utter 'do not want' your posts have been conveying in this thread for quite some time...I just don't see what you're getting out of this by repeating 'I've wasted time, I don't remember anything, it's unmemorable, I can't recall etc. etc. etc. etc.'. I get that you still like the old material but...I doubt there's gonna be much discussion on old material for a while. It doesn't seem very discussion-worthy to just keep shitting everywhere. That sounds bad but there's really no other way to say how your posts have been coming across (in this thread) recently. There's 'dislike/hate' with a well-thought review detailing the parts not liked and/or constructive criticism (or even just criticism)...and then there's what you've been posting, a whole other level of hate. Something I understand, it really sucks when you want to like an album and just don't, but there's also a point when you gotta ask if enough is enough.

[Dark Castle]

DC...saying 'Opeth is dead to me' and the borderline-bashing "review" kind of begs the question "Why are you still here"? Which isn't to say I don't want you to not post, but (and I'll say this as lightly as I can for fear of being blasted) with how much negativity and utter 'do not want' your posts have been conveying in this thread for quite some time...I just don't see what you're getting out of this by repeating 'I've wasted time, I don't remember anything, it's unmemorable, I can't recall etc. etc. etc. etc.'. I get that you still like the old material but...I doubt there's gonna be much discussion on old material for a while. It doesn't seem very discussion-worthy to just keep shitting everywhere. That sounds bad but there's really no other way to say how your posts have been coming across (in this thread) recently. There's 'dislike/hate' with a well-thought review detailing the parts not liked and/or constructive criticism (or even just criticism)...and then there's what you've been posting, a whole other level of hate. Something I understand, it really sucks when you want to like an album and just don't, but there's also a point when you gotta ask if enough is enough.

Borderline bashing? Are you fucking kidding me? I posted my thoughts on the album, and it's not bashing just because I'm extremely disappointed. Like I've said multiple times before, while I don't like where Opeth is at all these days, I still love the past 20 years of material before this (don't love Heritage, but I like it sort of) I don't see why I have to stop posting here because it's bullshit to say discussion on the old material won't happen, because it sure as hell will. Pale Commumion will get talked about and then it'll be right back to normal with people talking about older material or whatever.
I have a right to post my opinion, and just because you happen to love what they're doing now, I don't have to, and I have every right to talk about why I don't. I'm not "shitting" all over this thread, and honestly I don't really appreciate you insulting me like that.

[gazinwales]

Agreed, Tio, you are out of line with your comments.

[ariich]

DC, we get it, you really really hate it. That's fine.

But your review and rating does come across as overly extreme on principle. I think a lot of people just find it genuinely hard to believe that you honestly consider the album a 0/5, and it's quite normal for them to question/challenge you over it.

[Skeever]

I agree, the 0/5 review is kind of ridiculous, especially if you were a fan of previous work.

This dense prog is not everyone's cup of tea, but some people really being quite emotional about a band changing their sound. There is no reason to get so hung up and defensive about that.

Also why is Opeth following in the footsteps of Steven Wilson still a surprise to anyone?

[Dark Castle]

Zantera challenged it, and he and I have been discussing back and forth. Tio told me to stop posting in here because he doesn't like my opinion. I take insult to that.

My opinion isn't just me bashing a band, I spent 55 minutes listening to an album, hoping to find something I could connect to, and I didn't. I'm sick of people telling me that I'm just bashing a band, and that I need to give something multiple listens to come to an opinion about it. It's rubbish and I should be able to post my opinion without people telling me to get out and that I'm just shit posting. Differing opinions are fine and should be encouraged and discussed, but forcing out those who don't agree and telling them they're not welcome just because they have a very different opinion is fucked up.

EDIT: @Skeever
Liking a band's previous work has no bearing on how one will rate their future work.
People love Metallica, and hate St. Anger, what makes this situation any different? (although I do actually like St. Anger heh)

[ariich]

Nobody is criticising you for hating the album, and I don't even know why you would think that. People have only been commenting on the way you've been stating your opinions.

EDIT: In fact, the only 2 people who even commented on your opinion were Jimmy and Tio (and briefly Onno), and you seem perfectly happy with the discussion you have Jimmy have been having. And having read over Tio's posts again, he didn't tell you to stop posting (in fact he even said he doesn't want you to stop), just that you might not enjoy this thread if you have the new album so much as most of the discussion will be about it.

[Dark Castle]

Did you not read Tio's post?
He's pretty much telling me to stop posting in here, and said I'm bashing the band, when all I am doing is giving an honest review. I'm not insulting members of the band, I'm not insulting people who like this album, I'm giving my honest thoughts on it, and I shouldn't have to put up with people trying to push me out just because they disagree.

[RandalGraves]

Favorite overall is Voice of Treason (Faith In Others is pretty epic too, and the way they flow into each other is perfect). Very awesome feels. I'm gonna love cranking this up on a night drive in November.

I have a better overall opinion on it after a second listening, but you're absolutely right about the last two tracks.  Each time I've listened to the album, I went back and listened to the last two tracks again.  Voice of Treason is so f*cking good, and the way it flows into Faith . . . I just have to listen to 'em both.

I feel a little better after a second listen.  I don't mind this progression (from Ghost Reveries/Watershed to Heritage/Pale Communion) but I can't help but feel that there's a marriage of these two styles that Mikael could do, and it would be amazing.

[ariich]

Did you not read Tio's post?
He's pretty much telling me to stop posting in here, and said I'm bashing the band, when all I am doing is giving an honest review. I'm not insulting members of the band, I'm not insulting people who like this album, I'm giving my honest thoughts on it, and I shouldn't have to put up with people trying to push me out just because they disagree.

Edited my previous post.

And Tio never said you were bashing the band, only that you posted a "borderline-bashing review". Which isn't exactly a stretch, considering the following:

"this is the most bland 55 minutes of music I've ever listened to"
"another thing that I found increasingly funny were the pseudo heavy riffs that Mikael must have put in to attempt to satisfy those who got a sour taste in their mouth from Heritage"
"Mikael makes some cringeworthy decisions with his vocals as well"
"Opeth is dead to me"
"it's because they've become a bland as fuck band that sound nothing like themselves"
"this is one of the first times I've ever felt like I wasted my time listening to music"

That's hardly a constructive review.

Once again, absolutely any opinion is fine, and if you genuinely give it 0/5, that's cool. But if you're going to use extreme language such as in those quotes, don't be surprised if some people argue back in fairly strong terms (although, I might add, considerably less strong than yours).

Now, everyone play nice and enjoy/hate the new album.

[Dark Castle]

- How is me saying something was the most bland thing I've ever listened to bashing? Reviewers talk about how bland stuff is all of the time for movies, and I've read plenty of professional reviews in music magazines that are much more harsh than mine.
- I did find it funny, they felt tacked in to me, or in the most positive light shallow, again IMO.
- I thought some of the choices he made vocally were cringe worthy, don't see how this is bashing, it's once again, IMO.
- I guess that's a little strong, but any future expectations for albums are now six feet under, they're not a band I will ever buy first and listen later again.
- Once again, the reason for above is how that I find them to have become a stale, bland band that don't capture my attention any more, IMO
- That is genuinely how I felt, it's not bashing to say something like that, people talk about how they wasted their time with things all the time and it's not bashing then, nor is it now.

My reviews are just a reflection of what I heard, and while it may be negative, it's a review that accurately portrays my thoughts on the album and where I am with the band at this time.