Why i like Dream Theater but barely any other prog metal

[rumborak]

I don't know whether anybody else feels that way, but despite DT being the band I have enjoyed the most over the years, I barely listen to any other prog metal.
For me it's plain the fact that Dream Theater writes songs. Like, songs you can whistle, that have a catchy chorus etc. Most other prog metal bands, IMHO, fall into the trap of "prog by numbers". It has all the ingredients ( theatrical singer, guitar/key solos, odd measures) but it just feels like randomly strung together ideas. 10 seconds motif A, followed by 10 seconds of motif B. Solo.

Anybody else feel this way? It's just weird that my favorite genre I actually don't like for the most part.

rumborak

[KevShmev]

That sums it up for me for the most part, too.  I can't think of another full-fledged prog metal artist that I like a lot, since I don't consider Devin Townsend or Opeth prog metal (both are metal, with some progressive tendencies). 

[darkshade]

I like some other prog-metal, but I'm VERY PICKY when it comes to that genre. DT is the best, by and far. It's their compostions, writing style, playing talent, and everything in between that just makes it all work. I think it's also because they only take influence from a few classic metal and thrash metal bands, and more from prog bands like Yes, Rush, King Crimson, etc. I like LTE, Haken, Riverside, Planet X, and Derek Sherinian's solo stuff just fine, but it doesn't come close to the greatness of DT. Other bands have great albums, but are also way too inconsistent, like Pain of Salvation, Symphony X, Opeth, INDUKTI, Fates Warning, Devin Townsend, Buckethead, etc. And some are plain DT-clones, of which I'm not going to take time to type up examples. So yea, Dream Theater is the best.

[Implode]

I actually agree. I like Circus Maximus, but they basically are Dream Theater. I listen to a couple Opeth songs, but other than that nothing.

I always say prog metal is my favorite genre, but I guess I'm actually more of a progressive hard rock fan.

[theseoafs]

Yeah, I'm not really a prog-metal fan either.  What the OP mentioned probably has a lot to do with it.  As I see it, DT brings in along with the really intense technical stuff pop and rock sensibilities, which are essential for making prog metal listenable. 

[BlobVanDam]

I've never been into any form of prog, with DT always having been my anomaly of the genre, so I can definitely relate.

With other prog metal I've tried (which isn't a huge amount, so this is not at all intended to generalize), I'm too aware of when they're using these standard elements, such as odd time signatures and virtuoso players, and it can feel very contrived and pretentious to me.
DT usually incorporates these things in a way that adds extra character and dimension to a song, rather than being the formula to write the song. They're still focused on strong melodies and choruses and songwriting, and if that means straight up 4/4 or 6/8, or writing a short poppier song, then they'll do that if it serves the song.

[Nekov]

For the most part I agree with that but there are some bands like Haken that go out of the norm. There are not many though

[Zydar]

I also agree with you. The only other prog metal I listen to is Haken, some Opeth, and old Queensr˙che. Actually I've gotten less and less interested in metal overall the last couple of years. I've turned more attention to progressive rock nowadays.

[Unlegit]

Interesting. I'm a big prog guy in general so I like everything. Yes, Genesis, Redemption, Symphony X, Theocracy, Vanden Plas, Planet X, Between the Buried and Me, Opeth, etc. Dream Theater is my favorite band, though.

[TheGreatPretender]

I don't know. Fates Warning's had some albums where the songs had some catchy parts, like Parallels. Same with Queensryche. I wouldn't say it's necessarily just about the catchiness.
But I mean, is it so hard to chalk it up to the fact that they're just that good? They have a lot of versatility, and explore every spectrum of heaviness. Hell, listen to Solitary Shell and This Dying Soul. Sometimes it's almost difficult to fathom that it's the same band. Vast majority of other bands do not go that extreme in both directions. Which I think is ONE of the reasons why DT has the advantage over other Prog Metal bands.
Second is musicianship. DT are known to be among the best musicians on the planet. And even if there's a guitarist out there better than Petrucci, I highly doubt that guitarist also has other band members of Rudess, Myung, Portnoy/Mangini, LaBrie caliber in their band. So it's the fact that all these incredible musicians are all in the same band that really puts DT ahead as a titan in terms of actual skill.
Third is, they really do have a very distinct sound that doesn't sound anything like any other Prog Metal band. I think DT's days of 'emulating' Fates Warning's style ended after WDADU.

The odd thing is that I love prog rock, I love metal, but I barely listen to any other prog metal.

[Priest of Syrinx]

Most DT you can pare down to a really basic melody, and it sounds dramatic and beautiful without any embellishment.  I can't say that about most of my other fave prog bands, like Rush, Yes, etc.

Much of this applies to Transatlantic, too.

There's a lot of prog I like, but I have to be in the mood to listen to it.  DT I can listen to any time, any mood, and enjoy immensely.

[senecadawg2]

There is a lot of mediocre prog metal out there, and not a lot of really good prog metal. DT is definitely the best of the crowd, but there are some others worth listening to (Seventh Wonder, Circus Maximus, Opeth (If that even counts), just to name a couple)).

As mentioned before, I am VERY picky when it comes to this genre

[Nekov]

There is a lot of mediocre prog metal out there, and not a lot of really good prog metal. DT is definitely the best of the crowd, but there are some others worth listening to (Seventh Wonder, Circus Maximus, Opeth (If that even counts), just to name a couple)).

As mentioned before, I am VERY picky when it comes to this genre

CVisions is pretty good, although I've only ever given it one full listen.

You should really listen to more Haken. It will blow your mind

[ZKX-2099]

Yeah DT gets the prog metal thing down better than anybody else. So many others I find, bore me to tears.

Though there are exceptions. Take BTBAM... but they are on a whole different level.

Symphony X, Circus Maximus, Communic, Unexpect (can I count them?) Headspace and Periphery...  all of them were... completely forgettable.

Now I should add that I run into the same problem on the metal side of the spectrum. I can't count the bands I've tried and totally blanked out on by track 3 of their albums.

[senecadawg2]

There is a lot of mediocre prog metal out there, and not a lot of really good prog metal. DT is definitely the best of the crowd, but there are some others worth listening to (Seventh Wonder, Circus Maximus, Opeth (If that even counts), just to name a couple)).

As mentioned before, I am VERY picky when it comes to this genre

CVisions is pretty good, although I've only ever given it one full listen.

You should really listen to more Haken. It will blow your mind

I'm about to listen to Visions, just as soon as I finish this Avantasia album.

[FlyingBIZKIT]

Yes, Visions is amazing.

[MetropolisWatches]

For me it's plain the fact that Dream Theater writes songs. Like, songs you can whistle, that have a catchy chorus etc.

I agree with you. I can't help but laugh when most people (almost all of their detractors) say otherwise.

[kirksnosehair]

I'd say Redemption is quality and Haken as well.  Beyond The Bridge only has a single album, but it's stellar.  Certainly in the same league with Dream Theater.


The genre certainly is littered with quite a bit of crap, though.


I think the biggest problem in the genre is the tendency to be overly technical just for the sake of being overly technical.


Good songs should have good melodies as a foundation and then be built out from there.

[KevShmev]

Yes, Visions is amazing.

I finally gave this several spins somewhat recently and my reaction was, "Pass." *shrugs*

[robwebster]

It's like any other genre. There are a few good bands, and a lot of rubbish ones. As prog metal's relatively small, a lot of the rubbish ones gain a little more currency than they might in a bigger universe.

There are good ones kicking about, though. Threshold have the song-oriented thing going brilliantly. Weird observation, but I've never known a band to produce radio edits as good as Threshold's. Then Deadsoul Tribe are absolutely stupendous, they fuse progressive rock and metal in what I'd call a completely unqiue way. A Lullaby for the Devil is a superb album.

There are, though, a lot of Italian bands called Circle of Memory that blandly wail away in 7/8 for thirteen minutes. Granted.

[MetropolisWatches]

Yeah DT gets the prog metal thing down better than anybody else. So many others I find, bore me to tears.

Symphony X, Circus Maximus, Communic, Unexpect (can I count them?) Headspace and Periphery...  all of them were... completely forgettable.

Totally agree with you on Symphony X and Periphery. Both groups do nothing for me.

[Ħ]

It's like any other genre. There are a few good bands, and a lot of rubbish ones. As prog metal's relatively small, a lot of the rubbish ones gain a little more currency than they might in a bigger universe.

I completely agree with this.

[Dublagent66]

I like SX Iconoclast better than ADTOE, but then again the two albums are a lot different.  DT is more prog and SX is less prog and more metal.  I like Redemption and Fates Warning a lot too.  SX is very underrated because too many people try to compare them to DT.  Apples and Oranges.  Two very different sound and writing styles.

[commanderbob]

My main problem with other prog metal bands is the singer.  Almost all of them except James sound so incredibly cheesy to me, as if they should all be wearing a cloak and holding a book of spells and a sword while they sing.  With a wall of flames behind them.

[GasparXR]

When I first got into DT, I was more into metal bands like Iron Maiden, Judas Priest and Black Sabbath (I'm still into IM and BS quite a bit), so DT is what opened the doors for prog for me. I started getting into Pink Floyd and Rush, and now I'm into bands like Haken, Opeth, and An Endless Sporadic as well. Those last three are magnificent groups.

[rumborak]

It's like any other genre. There are a few good bands, and a lot of rubbish ones. As prog metal's relatively small, a lot of the rubbish ones gain a little more currency than they might in a bigger universe.

I completely agree with this.

Yeah, it's a good point. And coming in from the other side is the problem that the demands on the musicians are very high.  You have to be both an excellent musician and songwriter, one can marry virtuousic passages into a coherent, solid song.
And then there's the other problem that the major influx of musicians who attempt this are the ones who've been practicing runs over and over again, for whom playing a 4/4 I-IV-V is beneath them. So, they can run up and down the fretboard in augmented mixolydian, but not play a plain melody.

rumborak

[robwebster]

Precisely! There's... no more dickwaggling in prog than in any other genre, per se, but young progressive metal bands with something to prove aren't trying to prove how much soul they can squeeze out of a single note, or trying to prove they're tortured artists with so much to give the world, but they're trying to prove they can write a six-movement twenty-minute epic called "Symphony of Souls: The Seven Year Exodus" with two instrumental passages and a breakdown.

I'd wager it's still about the same ratio of good to bad stuff, though. The over-eager young band playing a million notes per second is usually no more and no less listenable than the over-eager young band trying to sound like Morrissey - it's all just different brands of wet-behind-the-ears.

Either way, someone's going to enjoy it, so they're adding to the scene. The bands wouldn't carry on if there wasn't an appetite for it, they point-blank wouldn't be able to, so more power to them. But there's a sort of pyramid of quality.

[rumborak]

Yeah, I lost count of the number of times I've rolled my eyes in the Musicians' Forum at yet another thread of "This is my first songwriting attempt, I'm trying to do a 60-minute concept album. Where should I start?"

rumborak

[robwebster]

Bless 'em for trying, though. The entry requirements are very high, but if it's what you like it's what you've got to give it a shot. Nobody's going to want to sit around writing Hey Jude, as fantastic a song as that is, when they know their affections lie with the 18 minute opus.

It's such a tricky genre to pull off. Simply having the chops is a damn sight further than I'm likely to get. I've been playing bass for the best part of ten years and I can just about manage Sacrificed Sons. But yes. The combination is rare. And Dream Theater are stupendous songwriters. Never understood the people who say they're all about the wankery. I suppose it's the band's USP - it's the most striking aspect from the perspective of a newcomer - but to say that's all they've got is so many miles off the mark. It's all about the melody, that's what's front and centre - the solos are just a bonus. Even their instrumentals! Something like Stream of Consciousness - it's got a pulse, a throbbing heart. DT are, frankly, at the top of the food chain because they're just that good.

I hope that doesn't sound like fanboyism. Feels like the wrong place to be posting this. Like I'm preaching to the choir. But I think that's what's missing from some of the less inspired progressive metal bands. They're writing progressive metal, so they've gone "What do we need? Riffs, solos, and time signatures," concentrating on the genre's USP without what should be common to all music. It's all bonus-feature. The appendices without the essay. All meat and no veg.

God, I'm a patronising sod, aren't I? I basically think the genre's in perfectly good health - like I said, there's certainly plenty of pap, but that's not a prog thing, that's a music thing. Cut-off's just different from person to person. I'd say that lots of the most successful prog metal bands very much deserve their success, and they tend to be the ones that avoid the trappings of generic prog.

[WheyWaffles]

Anyone who loves Dream Theater but doesn't care for much other progressive metal simply hasn't heard enough.  It's a diverse genre as the name would imply.  I love a lot of progressive metal (and consider Fates Warning and Vanden Plas just as good as DT), but don't care for most of the bands mentioned in this thread, either.  That means little, though, as there's so much more out there.  A lot of tech metal gets lumped into prog, and that's the most popular kind of prog these days unfortunately.  The easiest way to avoid those kind of bands (whose songs are certainly not the kind you're likely to find yourself humming) is to pass on any band that cites Meshuggah as an influence.

Regarding Symphony X, it's best for a DT fan to try The Divine Wings of Tragedy before giving up on them.  They've changed a lot over the years, not really in a great way.

[rumborak]

Anyone who loves Dream Theater but doesn't care for much other progressive metal simply hasn't heard enough.

Clearly, that must be the problem 

rumborak

[DTFan0789]

SO HEAVY. POWER.

[bosk1]

Anyone who loves Dream Theater but doesn't care for much other progressive metal simply hasn't heard enough.

That may be true for some.  But for many, it's simply what has been said in this thread:  They just don't like other progressive metal bands they've heard.

For myself, I basically agree with what's been said already.  There are a couple of bands and projects that I think do a great job, but most just doesn't interest me.  Redemption, for example, is just amazing.  The last album from Arch/Matheos was pretty amazing as well.  The Anabasis is pretty good stuff as well. 

Others I heard just do nothing for me.  I've given Fates Warning many chances over the years, but just don't like them at all other than X and a few songs here and there.  (odd, I know, given how much I like Redemption and Arch/Matheos)  PT bores me to tears.  Same with Haken.  Theocracy, I can handle in small doses.  POS has some interesting stuff, but "interesting" alone isn't enough to make me a fan.  Etc., etc., etc.

...and then there are the bands I don't really consider "progressive" at all.  Queensryche, for example.  Love their older stuff, and I suspect I'm going to like the new stuff with Todd now that they can finally get back to their metal roots.  But I wouldn't really consider them "prog" just because they write a form of metal that is more complex and deep than your basic three-chord metal.  Symphony X is another band that, while I can say I'm somewhat of a fan, I consider them symphonic metal, but not really "prog."  But, anyhow, putting that aside, they had a good run with V and The Odyssey, but are otherwise hit and miss.

[Adami]

I'm not a huge fan of Prog Metal either. I like DT, and I like Pagan's Mind. I know most people think Pagan's Mind sucks, but I think they're catchy as hell and they don't really get all showy.

I have a few Andromeda albums, but they really do suffer from everything Rumby mentioned.


PoS is my favorite band, but I wouldn't call them Metal by any means. Proggy/Experimental/Eclectic/Danielisadouche rock perhaps, but not prog metal. I have a Planet X album, and while it's okay, I just can't get into crazy instrumental stuff with no real purpose other than being crazy.

[Madman Shepherd]

Not a prog fan either.  Got into DT because of the metal elements and merely tolerated the proggy stuff.  Now I love it all....but only when DT does it