Winger

[Samsara]

Loved the new song.

I did too.

And for the record, Pull is still my favorite Winger record. Blind Revolution Mad, Who's The One, just so many gems on that album.

[HOF]

New song out today, and it’s a monster (I listened on Amazon, didn’t watch the video which is probably dumb).

“It All Comes Back Around.”

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=avR1A14P89E

Now that’s more like it. Love the guitar work, and Kip sounds great. Only complaint is I really wanted to hear Rod tear it up on the outro, but he just sort of played it safe. Feels like he really holds back on Winger stuff since they reformed.

[hefdaddy42]

New one is OK.  I preferred the first single.

[NunoTenniscourt]

New song out today, and it’s a monster (I listened on Amazon, didn’t watch the video which is probably dumb).

“It All Comes Back Around.”

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=avR1A14P89E

Now that’s more like it. Love the guitar work, and Kip sounds great. Only complaint is I really wanted to hear Rod tear it up on the outro, but he just sort of played it safe. Feels like he really holds back on Winger stuff since they reformed.

That's a shame, too. The casual fan probably has no idea he's been a legend for decades in the drum community.

[Samsara]

LOVING "It All Comes Back Around." Moody, great melodies, proggy feel, and a tremendous solo with both feel and technicality. I thought Reb was going the Gilmour route, and then at the end, reminds people who he is. Just phenomenal.

Both new songs are really good. "It All Comes Back Around" was written entirely by Kip Winger. "Proud Desperado" was written by Winger, Reb Beach...and...Desmond Child.  Eek. I had hoped they stopped bringing in other writers. I gave up on their last record, because half the lyrics were written by Donnie Purnell. So that is a bit of a bummer. Not sure why a band like Winger needs Desmond Child involved.

Regardless, I like both tracks. But I really love "It All Comes Back Around."

[HOF]

LOVING "It All Comes Back Around." Moody, great melodies, proggy feel, and a tremendous solo with both feel and technicality. I thought Reb was going the Gilmour route, and then at the end, reminds people who he is. Just phenomenal.

Both new songs are really good. "It All Comes Back Around" was written entirely by Kip Winger. "Proud Desperado" was written by Winger, Reb Beach...and...Desmond Child.  Eek. I had hoped they stopped bringing in other writers. I gave up on their last record, because half the lyrics were written by Donnie Purnell. So that is a bit of a bummer. Not sure why a band like Winger needs Desmond Child involved.

Regardless, I like both tracks. But I really love "It All Comes Back Around."

I had no idea there was a co-writer on the last Winger album. Kip was on Eddie Trunk the other night and explained that he was just stuck on Proud Desperado and had always wanted to work with Child so he got in touch with him. He apparently knew him from way back but had never worked with him.

I honestly think Kip only uses about a quarter of his brain capacity when doing Winger stuff. It’s not that he doesn’t enjoy it, but he’s said before that he kind of has to dumb it down for the audience.

[Samsara]

LOVING "It All Comes Back Around." Moody, great melodies, proggy feel, and a tremendous solo with both feel and technicality. I thought Reb was going the Gilmour route, and then at the end, reminds people who he is. Just phenomenal.

Both new songs are really good. "It All Comes Back Around" was written entirely by Kip Winger. "Proud Desperado" was written by Winger, Reb Beach...and...Desmond Child.  Eek. I had hoped they stopped bringing in other writers. I gave up on their last record, because half the lyrics were written by Donnie Purnell. So that is a bit of a bummer. Not sure why a band like Winger needs Desmond Child involved.

Regardless, I like both tracks. But I really love "It All Comes Back Around."

I had no idea there was a co-writer on the last Winger album. Kip was on Eddie Trunk the other night and explained that he was just stuck on Proud Desperado and had always wanted to work with Child so he got in touch with him. He apparently knew him from way back but had never worked with him.

I honestly think Kip only uses about a quarter of his brain capacity when doing Winger stuff. It’s not that he doesn’t enjoy it, but he’s said before that he kind of has to dumb it down for the audience.

I interviewed Kip a couple of times over the years. I remember talking to him extensively during the IV cycle, and again on Karma. He said that IV flew over the heads of most listeners, so he's very cognizant for the need to balance the band's more commercial, pop-metal elements with the more...progressive/technical elements. He's a brilliant musical mind.

I'm glad that the use of Child sounds like it's just one track. Thanks for mentioning that. 

[wolfking]

LOVING "It All Comes Back Around." Moody, great melodies, proggy feel, and a tremendous solo with both feel and technicality. I thought Reb was going the Gilmour route, and then at the end, reminds people who he is. Just phenomenal.

Both new songs are really good. "It All Comes Back Around" was written entirely by Kip Winger. "Proud Desperado" was written by Winger, Reb Beach...and...Desmond Child.  Eek. I had hoped they stopped bringing in other writers. I gave up on their last record, because half the lyrics were written by Donnie Purnell. So that is a bit of a bummer. Not sure why a band like Winger needs Desmond Child involved.

Regardless, I like both tracks. But I really love "It All Comes Back Around."

I had no idea there was a co-writer on the last Winger album. Kip was on Eddie Trunk the other night and explained that he was just stuck on Proud Desperado and had always wanted to work with Child so he got in touch with him. He apparently knew him from way back but had never worked with him.

I honestly think Kip only uses about a quarter of his brain capacity when doing Winger stuff. It’s not that he doesn’t enjoy it, but he’s said before that he kind of has to dumb it down for the audience.

I interviewed Kip a couple of times over the years. I remember talking to him extensively during the IV cycle, and again on Karma. He said that IV flew over the heads of most listeners, so he's very cognizant for the need to balance the band's more commercial, pop-metal elements with the more...progressive/technical elements. He's a brilliant musical mind.

I'm glad that the use of Child sounds like it's just one track. Thanks for mentioning that. 

Eh.....I think that's a bit of a cop out.  I don't think it flew over the heads, I just don't think it was all that good.  A few gems in there but on a whole was quite stale.  Maybe it needs a revisit.

[wolfking]

New song is fine.  It didn't do a lot for me though until the last couple of minutes.  Reb sure is a tasty creative guitar player.

[T-ski]

New song is fine.  It didn't do a lot for me though until the last couple of minutes.  Reb sure is a tasty creative guitar player.

Ya, the first half drags a bit, but the second half sounds really good.

[WilliamMunny]

Hey, are there any OFFICIAL acoustic version of "Down Incognito" available?  I saw an ALBUM called "Down Incognito" that looked to be acoustic versions of some of their hits, but I couldn't quite tell if it was legit, and/or if it was live.  I don't mind "live" but I'd like it to be better than bootleg quality (there are plenty of fan filmed versions of Kip doing it solo and that's not working for me).

I think I can help you out here (as I have virtually everything Kip has ever released)!

The album you saw is a compilation of sorts (and is currently on streaming, so you can certainly preview it). Back in the '90s, Kip was doing the (now-defunct) Borders coffeeshop circuit (mostly in support of This Conversation... and Songs From the Ocean Floor). 'Down Incognito' is mostly 'acoustic' versions of the studio counterparts, and by 'acoustic,' I mean, remixed sans electric guitars.

So, it's the same vocals. The version of "Naked Son" and "Daniel" are, in my humble opinion, definitive. In fact, if you haven't checked out Kip's two solo '90s albums, you are definitely missing out.

There's also a couple of acoustic live versions that are taken from the aforementioned coffee-shop tours, and they are excellent as well. The quality of the whole collection is superb, but I'd recommend streaming it first to see if the remixes are to your liking.

[HOF]

Hey, are there any OFFICIAL acoustic version of "Down Incognito" available?  I saw an ALBUM called "Down Incognito" that looked to be acoustic versions of some of their hits, but I couldn't quite tell if it was legit, and/or if it was live.  I don't mind "live" but I'd like it to be better than bootleg quality (there are plenty of fan filmed versions of Kip doing it solo and that's not working for me).

I think I can help you out here (as I have virtually everything Kip has ever released)!

The album you saw is a compilation of sorts (and is currently on streaming, so you can certainly preview it). Back in the '90s, Kip was doing the (now-defunct) Borders coffeeshop circuit (mostly in support of This Conversation... and Songs From the Ocean Floor). 'Down Incognito' is mostly 'acoustic' versions of the studio counterparts, and by 'acoustic,' I mean, remixed sans electric guitars.

So, it's the same vocals. The version of "Naked Son" and "Daniel" are, in my humble opinion, definitive. In fact, if you haven't checked out Kip's two solo '90s albums, you are definitely missing out.

There's also a couple of acoustic live versions that are taken from the aforementioned coffee-shop tours, and they are excellent as well. The quality of the whole collection is superb, but I'd recommend streaming it first to see if the remixes are to your liking.

Interesting, are those really the same vocal takes as from This Conversation? He must have re-recorded the Winger tracks at least, as well as the new song “Another Way.” Why wouldn’t he have re-recorded the other tracks?

Edit: went back and looked at the liner notes, and they are silent on how or when the tracks were recorded, though some of the personnel are the same so it would make sense if they used some of the original tracks from This Conversation. The vocal takes always sounded different to me though. I’ll have to have another listen.

[WilliamMunny]

Hey, are there any OFFICIAL acoustic version of "Down Incognito" available?  I saw an ALBUM called "Down Incognito" that looked to be acoustic versions of some of their hits, but I couldn't quite tell if it was legit, and/or if it was live.  I don't mind "live" but I'd like it to be better than bootleg quality (there are plenty of fan filmed versions of Kip doing it solo and that's not working for me).

I think I can help you out here (as I have virtually everything Kip has ever released)!

The album you saw is a compilation of sorts (and is currently on streaming, so you can certainly preview it). Back in the '90s, Kip was doing the (now-defunct) Borders coffeeshop circuit (mostly in support of This Conversation... and Songs From the Ocean Floor). 'Down Incognito' is mostly 'acoustic' versions of the studio counterparts, and by 'acoustic,' I mean, remixed sans electric guitars.

So, it's the same vocals. The version of "Naked Son" and "Daniel" are, in my humble opinion, definitive. In fact, if you haven't checked out Kip's two solo '90s albums, you are definitely missing out.

There's also a couple of acoustic live versions that are taken from the aforementioned coffee-shop tours, and they are excellent as well. The quality of the whole collection is superb, but I'd recommend streaming it first to see if the remixes are to your liking.

Interesting, are those really the same vocal takes as from This Conversation? He must have re-recorded the Winger tracks at least, as well as the new song “Another Way.” Why wouldn’t he have re-recorded the other tracks?

Edit: went back and looked at the liner notes, and they are silent on how or when the tracks were recorded, though some of the personnel are the same so it would make sense if they used some of the original tracks from This Conversation. The vocal takes always sounded different to me though. I’ll have to have another listen.

I should've clarified that my assertion was an opinion.

I've always heard the tracks as sounding identical (especially "Daniel" and "Naked Son")...I believe the mix is the ultimate tell, as many of the tracks feature the same backing vocals as the album counterpart.

[HOF]

Yeah, I can hear it in the backing vocals for sure. Also think the strings are the same on each version of Daniel. But there is also some added percussion on Daniel so it’s not just a straight remix. I’m guessing there was maybe a combination of old tracks and some new recordings for those.

Also, just looked for these on Amazon music and it looks like all of Kip’s solo albums are off the service at the moment. That really stinks.

[emtee]

Just listened to the new one, Tears Of Blood. Frickin goosebumps man. Wow. What a great song!

[HOF]

I was streaming some of this today. I can’t shake the feeling that the music is just kind of uninspired (and the lyrics seem totally pointless), but it has it’s moments and Kip sounds great at least. The best song I’ve heard so far is Heaven’s Falling probably.

[wolfking]

I have this album lined up in the next day or so.

[WardySI]

I was streaming some of this today. I can’t shake the feeling that the music is just kind of uninspired (and the lyrics seem totally pointless), but it has it’s moments and Kip sounds great at least. The best song I’ve heard so far is Heaven’s Falling probably.

Sadly +1

[Stadler]

Going back a bit, I bought that "Down Incognito" record; most of it is really, really good.  There are a couple songs that don't resonate, and I have no input as to whether the tracks are the 'same' or not (I have nothing to compare it to) but I like what I heard, especially I think it was "Another Way" (might have been "Under One Condition"). 

[WilliamMunny]

Going back a bit, I bought that "Down Incognito" record; most of it is really, really good.  There are a couple songs that don't resonate, and I have no input as to whether the tracks are the 'same' or not (I have nothing to compare it to) but I like what I heard, especially I think it was "Another Way" (might have been "Under One Condition").

Happy to hear you took the plunge.

His first official album (This Conversation Seems Like a Dream) is (I hope) right up your alley. Probably his best produced album, and the songwriting is so top-notch. Andy Timmons plays most of the leads and a certain Jordan Rudess is featured on a song to boot!

[WilliamMunny]

I was streaming some of this today. I can’t shake the feeling that the music is just kind of uninspired (and the lyrics seem totally pointless), but it has it’s moments and Kip sounds great at least. The best song I’ve heard so far is Heaven’s Falling probably.

Sadly +1

I'm going to second this (sadly).

I just finished my second listen on the way to work this morning, and, well, it's not really doing anything for me. The production just feels a bit flat, and while Kip still sounds amazing, this feels like a mash-up of Karma and Better Days, two records that also didn't really grab me the way I'd hoped.

I still feel that ITHOTY, Pull, and VI is the band's peak, and I love all three of those albums for very different reasons, but largely bc they strike a balance between the pop-tinged hard rock vibe of the late eighties and Kip's prog influences.

With Karma, Kip seemed to think that his fanbase wanted more of the straight-ahead, pop-metal stuff, and that's the lane they've been in ever since.

That said, there's a healthy dose of proggy stuff on this album, but it just feels a bit too cobbled together.

I'm hoping it will click with subsequent listens, but I suspect that, at the end of the day, the 4 or 5 songs that really resonate with me will go on my Winger playlist (along with the 3 or 4 from the past two albums).

But...did I mention how good Kip sounds?

[HOF]

Going back a bit, I bought that "Down Incognito" record; most of it is really, really good.  There are a couple songs that don't resonate, and I have no input as to whether the tracks are the 'same' or not (I have nothing to compare it to) but I like what I heard, especially I think it was "Another Way" (might have been "Under One Condition").

Another Way is one of my favorites by Kip. Beautiful track.

[soupytwist]

So after all these years of searching did they ever find the Rainbow in the Rose? 

[Samsara]

I just finished my second listen on the way to work this morning, and, well, it's not really doing anything for me. The production just feels a bit flat, and while Kip still sounds amazing, this feels like a mash-up of Karma and Better Days, two records that also didn't really grab me the way I'd hoped.

I still feel that ITHOTY, Pull, and VI is the band's peak, and I love all three of those albums for very different reasons, but largely bc they strike a balance between the pop-tinged hard rock vibe of the late eighties and Kip's prog influences.

With Karma, Kip seemed to think that his fanbase wanted more of the straight-ahead, pop-metal stuff, and that's the lane they've been in ever since.

That said, there's a healthy dose of proggy stuff on this album, but it just feels a bit too cobbled together.

I'm hoping it will click with subsequent listens, but I suspect that, at the end of the day, the 4 or 5 songs that really resonate with me will go on my Winger playlist (along with the 3 or 4 from the past two albums).

But...did I mention how good Kip sounds?

I haven't listened enough yet to really give a full on opinion of the new Winger record. One thing I am happy with other than two songs, everything else is fully penned by the band. And even the two songs that have "outside the band" writers (Desperado and I can't think of the other one), they are both lyric co-writes with Kip, I believe. So this album is truly THE BAND, unlike the last one,  where Donnie Purnell wrote a lot of lyrics (which I couldn't stand).

But based on two loose listens of the record, nothing really pops out at me so far except the closing track. That may change, I need to dig into it more.

That said, I don't think anything Winger does will top Pull for me. That record is absolutely stellar from top to bottom. Epics, snark, deep thoughts, social commentary, aggression, it's all there for me.

I know I mentioned this somewhere in this thread, but I remember asking Kip about Winger IV, and he said that conceptual nature of things flew over the heads of most listeners, so they went back to a more straight ahead record with Karma. I like them both. The lyric co-writers with people outside the band started with IV. Kip's wife co-wrote lyrics on a few tracks on IV, and both her and the previously mentioned Donnie Purnell co-wrote lyrics on Karma. But almost every song on Better Days Comin' was co-wrote lyrically with someone, which is annoying to me. The first four tracks have Donnie Purnell (he is the former bassist of Kix) writing lyrics.

That just plain bothers me. The over-reliance on outside people to create songs. Sure, Kip said he had writers block for the lyrics on Better Days Comin, but he'd been wanting lyrical help since IV, so...

Bottom line, with very limited outside creativity involved with Seven, I think repeated listens are going to have that album appealing to me more. I couldn't stand Better Days Comin', honestly.

[WilliamMunny]

I just finished my second listen on the way to work this morning, and, well, it's not really doing anything for me. The production just feels a bit flat, and while Kip still sounds amazing, this feels like a mash-up of Karma and Better Days, two records that also didn't really grab me the way I'd hoped.

I still feel that ITHOTY, Pull, and VI is the band's peak, and I love all three of those albums for very different reasons, but largely bc they strike a balance between the pop-tinged hard rock vibe of the late eighties and Kip's prog influences.

With Karma, Kip seemed to think that his fanbase wanted more of the straight-ahead, pop-metal stuff, and that's the lane they've been in ever since.

That said, there's a healthy dose of proggy stuff on this album, but it just feels a bit too cobbled together.

I'm hoping it will click with subsequent listens, but I suspect that, at the end of the day, the 4 or 5 songs that really resonate with me will go on my Winger playlist (along with the 3 or 4 from the past two albums).

But...did I mention how good Kip sounds?

I haven't listened enough yet to really give a full on opinion of the new Winger record. One thing I am happy with other than two songs, everything else is fully penned by the band. And even the two songs that have "outside the band" writers (Desperado and I can't think of the other one), they are both lyric co-writes with Kip, I believe. So this album is truly THE BAND, unlike the last one,  where Donnie Purnell wrote a lot of lyrics (which I couldn't stand).

But based on two loose listens of the record, nothing really pops out at me so far except the closing track. That may change, I need to dig into it more.

That said, I don't think anything Winger does will top Pull for me. That record is absolutely stellar from top to bottom. Epics, snark, deep thoughts, social commentary, aggression, it's all there for me.

I know I mentioned this somewhere in this thread, but I remember asking Kip about Winger IV, and he said that conceptual nature of things flew over the heads of most listeners, so they went back to a more straight ahead record with Karma. I like them both. The lyric co-writers with people outside the band started with IV. Kip's wife co-wrote lyrics on a few tracks on IV, and both her and the previously mentioned Donnie Purnell co-wrote lyrics on Karma. But almost every song on Better Days Comin' was co-wrote lyrically with someone, which is annoying to me. The first four tracks have Donnie Purnell (he is the former bassist of Kix) writing lyrics.

That just plain bothers me. The over-reliance on outside people to create songs. Sure, Kip said he had writers block for the lyrics on Better Days Comin, but he'd been wanting lyrical help since IV, so...

Bottom line, with very limited outside creativity involved with Seven, I think repeated listens are going to have that album appealing to me more. I couldn't stand Better Days Comin', honestly.

Couldn't agree more with your comments of Pull–it's such a high-water mark, and pretty much a double-edged sword. Still, there's a million bands (this writer included) that would kill to have that album in their back pocket.

Funny—I saw Winger a few times around the release of IV and Karma, and I actually had a similar conversation with Reb (amazing how approachable those guys are), where he essentially said exactly what you've written above.

That all said, whatever others thought of IV, none of it went over my head—that record felt like such a logical continuation of Pull, and I still give it regular listens.

[Samsara]

When I go back to Winger, it is generally always Pull-IV-Karma, and then a bit of In the Heart of the Young, and when I want to relive my teens, the self-titled. But it's generally Pull-IV-Karma.

Yeah, I saw the band on the Karma tour as well. Those songs came off killer live.

[HOF]

I think there are some strong songs on Better Days Comin’ (and some lousy ones). Tin Soldier, Ever Wonder, So Long China, Be Who You Are Now, and Out of This World are all good, and I like the title track fine as well. In places it sounds a bit more like a Kip solo album. Never even knew there was an outside writer until Samsara pointed it out, so it never bothered me.

I’ve still never made it all the way through Karma, and I fear I won’t make it through this one, but I’ll give it another go when I get the chance. IV is a pretty interesting album that I liked a lot when it first came out but don’t revisit much because it is fairly dense musically. Some cool stuff there though.

Pull is still miles ahead (away?) from the pack in terms of Winger albums, but I think the debut holds up pretty well (aside from things like the Purple Rain cover), and In The Heart of the Young has it’s moments.