Author Topic: The Official Climate Change Thread  (Read 33540 times)

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Offline Stadler

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Re: The Official Climate Change Thread
« Reply #455 on: September 06, 2018, 07:45:36 AM »
It wasn't meant to be political, but the point is - and again respectfully, because I think both of you would RIGHTFULLY jump on someone coming in and saying "MAN, it's colder than a witch's tit outside.  What's all this nonsense about this "global warming" bullshit?" - it's a CLIMATE CHANGE thread, and it's misleading  to talk about anecdotal, geographically specific, acute weather conditions.

I live within 30 minutes of Chino, give/take, and I'm with him.  I don't remember humidity like this, and I don't remember the number and frequency of VIOLENT storm activity (when I was a kid - early 1920's - we would often get thunderstorms in the afternoon, but I don't remember ever getting a tornado WARNING let alone touchdown, and we're approaching double digits this year).  But because we wrote here six months ago about the severe cold we saw - from about Christmas until the second week of January, temperatures never went above freezing, and the average temp in that span was something like 20 degrees below average - I'm not sure this tells us anything about "climate change". 

Offline Chino

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Re: The Official Climate Change Thread
« Reply #456 on: November 12, 2018, 07:40:34 AM »
https://www.evwind.es/2018/11/12/wind-turbines-generated-98-of-october-electricity-demand-in-scotland/65174

Wind turbines generated the equivalent of 98% of all Scotland’s electricity demand in October, according to new analysis.

WWF Scotland said that National Grid demand for the month was 1,850,512 MWh and that almost all of this could have been provided by wind turbines, which provided record levels of power.

Turbines generated the equivalent of 98% of all Scotland’s electricity demand or enough to power nearly five million homes last month, the group said.

Demand that day was 45,274.5MWh and wind generation was 234% of that.

Dr Sam Gardner, acting director at WWF Scotland, said: “What a month October proved to be, with wind powering on average 98% of Scotland’s entire electricity demand for the month, and exceeding our total demand for a staggering 16 out of 31 days.

“These figures clearly show wind is working, it’s helping reduce our emissions and is the lowest cost form of new power generation.

“It’s also popular, with a recent survey also showing more and more people support turbines in rural areas.

“That’s why it’s essential that the UK Government unlocks market access for onshore wind at a time when we need to be scaling up electrification of heat and transport.”

The worst day was October 18 when generation was 18,377.71MWh, enough to power 1,512,568 homes, 62% of households.

On 27 days generation was over 100% of households while on 16 days generation was more than 100% of demand.

The majority of the turbines were onshore, with offshore ones accounting for 0.3% of output in October.

Alex Wilcox Brooke, weather energy project manager at Severn Wye Energy Agency, said: “October’s figures are a prime example of how reliable and consistent wind production can be, with production on 16 days outstripping national demand.”

The data comes from WeatherEnergy, part of the European EnergizAIR project which is supported by the Intelligent Energy Europe Programme and led by the European Agency for Competitiveness and Innovation.

The best day was October 23 when turbines generated 105,900.94 MWh, enough to power 8.72 million homes or 356% of households, according to WWF Scotland analysis of data from WeatherEnergy.

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Re: The Official Climate Change Thread
« Reply #457 on: November 12, 2018, 07:58:11 AM »
Awesome.
I think Jingle is right as rain
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: The Official Climate Change Thread
« Reply #458 on: November 12, 2018, 08:30:30 AM »
Good stuff.
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Online Adami

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Re: The Official Climate Change Thread
« Reply #460 on: March 15, 2019, 09:07:18 PM »
Kids are adorable.

https://www.npr.org/2019/03/14/703461293/skipping-school-to-protest-climate-change

Hmm, well the weather here HAS improved. Coincidence? I’ll let you decide.
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Offline MirrorMask

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Re: The Official Climate Change Thread
« Reply #461 on: March 16, 2019, 06:28:03 AM »
Kids are adorable.

https://www.npr.org/2019/03/14/703461293/skipping-school-to-protest-climate-change

The real life Jon Snows. (this is for Game of Thrones fans  :lol)

In the same day we had young boys and girls protesting worldwide for measure to better the condition of the Pale Blue Dot which is our one and only home, and a fanatic idiot killed 50 muslims in New Zeleand in a terrorist attack. Humanity at its best and worst.
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Offline MrBoom_shack-a-lack

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« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 02:21:26 PM by MrBoom_shack-a-lack »
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Offline Stadler

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Re: The Official Climate Change Thread
« Reply #463 on: March 18, 2019, 10:00:57 AM »
Call me the fuddy-duddy, but while I commend their zeal and promote their interest in things like politics, I'm not good with putting too much substantive weight in that.   This smacks more of rewarding her for coming to what some call the "right decision" than any actual achievement on her part.   Would you nominate someone of the same standing and age if they did the research and came out on the opposite side?  Or even in the middle?  What if everything was the same except the message was "well, the science shows that global warming is a thing, and will create problems for future generations, but in fact, most "answers" to global warming won't actually address the problem, won't appreciably minimize the threat for future generations, and in fact serve as a de facto income and wealth reallocation program in the current time frame."   I don't think so. 

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: The Official Climate Change Thread
« Reply #464 on: March 19, 2019, 12:33:19 PM »
"Mom, can you drive me to the park?"
"No Greta, remember that our family is allocated only one automobile and are restricted to driving only at certain times."
"But Betty gets driven to the park all the time!"
"That's because her dad works for the Politburo. They can have as many cars as like they and drive whenever and wherever they wish."

Stadler said better what I was thinking. Good for Greta for taking an interest in politics and the human condition. The world might be a better place if more people spent more energy making the world a better place and less on what mascara Olivia Jade prefers. I would hesitate to bestow any awards on her for getting a few (in the grand scheme of things) students to leave school regularly to protest for things 99% of them likely don't fully understand however.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: The Official Climate Change Thread
« Reply #465 on: March 19, 2019, 01:55:47 PM »
"Mom, can you drive me to the park?"
"No Greta, remember that our family is allocated only one automobile and are restricted to driving only at certain times."
"But Betty gets driven to the park all the time!"
"That's because her dad works for the Politburo. They can have as many cars as like they and drive whenever and wherever they wish."

Stadler said better what I was thinking. Good for Greta for taking an interest in politics and the human condition. The world might be a better place if more people spent more energy making the world a better place and less on what mascara Olivia Jade prefers. I would hesitate to bestow any awards on her for getting a few (in the grand scheme of things) students to leave school regularly to protest for things 99% of them likely don't fully understand however.

I'm ashamed that I even have to know who "Olivia Jade" is.  :)


Offline MrBoom_shack-a-lack

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Re: The Official Climate Change Thread
« Reply #466 on: March 20, 2019, 02:34:27 AM »
I applaude her for taking a stand and have the guts to speak out about what she believes in no matter where it leads. Sure it's easy too diminish a 16-year old actions but come on now:

"In November 2018, she spoke at TEDxStockholm, in December she addressed the United Nations Climate Change Conference and in January 2019 she was invited to talk to the World Economic Forum at Davos."

We keyboard warriors can say whatever we want but until one of us raises our asses and do something similar for what we believe in I would keep my mouth in a closed state of mind.  :P
« Last Edit: March 20, 2019, 02:42:25 AM by MrBoom_shack-a-lack »
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Offline Stadler

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Re: The Official Climate Change Thread
« Reply #467 on: March 20, 2019, 07:05:32 AM »
I applaude her for taking a stand and have the guts to speak out about what she believes in no matter where it leads. Sure it's easy too diminish a 16-year old actions but come on now:

"In November 2018, she spoke at TEDxStockholm, in December she addressed the United Nations Climate Change Conference and in January 2019 she was invited to talk to the World Economic Forum at Davos."

We keyboard warriors can say whatever we want but until one of us raises our asses and do something similar for what we believe in I would keep my mouth in a closed state of mind.  :P

I don't want to argue with you, but that's a little disingenuous.   I'm maintaining that she's getting publicity for the position she took (not how she got there) and the fact of who she is.   If I could be a teenage girl and have people listen to me, I'd do that, but I can't.    No one is clamoring to hear a 50-year-old straight white American male's opinion on ANYTHING at this point.   

My daughter is essentially that girl (a year or two older, but still) so I have a tremendous amount of respect for her initiative; I'm more responding to the REACTION to her, not her herself.   

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Re: The Official Climate Change Thread
« Reply #468 on: March 20, 2019, 07:12:12 AM »
When Donald Trump is a nominee, I'm not sure your argument that she's only nominated because of her stance is valid.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: The Official Climate Change Thread
« Reply #469 on: March 20, 2019, 07:13:55 AM »
When Donald Trump is a nominee, I'm not sure your argument that she's only nominated because of her stance is valid.
I don't follow? 

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Re: The Official Climate Change Thread
« Reply #470 on: March 20, 2019, 07:15:16 AM »
When Donald Trump is a nominee, I'm not sure your argument that she's only nominated because of her stance is valid.
I don't follow?

You're saying that committee nominated her because of her position and that they don't care about older white men. Donald Trump was a nominee. That is quite contrary to the idea that committee has some left liberal agenda behind their selection process.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: The Official Climate Change Thread
« Reply #471 on: March 20, 2019, 11:01:25 AM »
When Donald Trump is a nominee, I'm not sure your argument that she's only nominated because of her stance is valid.
I don't follow?

You're saying that committee nominated her because of her position and that they don't care about older white men. Donald Trump was a nominee. That is quite contrary to the idea that committee has some left liberal agenda behind their selection process.

I'm not sure that's the best evidence to use.  Trump may be an old white man, but he has this little thing called "The President of the United States" working in his favor.   That girl and I are voices in the crowd. 

Offline portnoy311

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Re: The Official Climate Change Thread
« Reply #472 on: March 20, 2019, 11:16:34 AM »
Well that doesn't address the point Adami was making, and that girl is clearly not just a voice in the crowd with the results she's had.

Offline Stadler

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Re: The Official Climate Change Thread
« Reply #473 on: March 20, 2019, 11:33:07 AM »
Well that doesn't address the point Adami was making, and that girl is clearly not just a voice in the crowd with the results she's had.

Which is my point exactly.  She's the right person with the right message at the right time.   

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Re: The Official Climate Change Thread
« Reply #474 on: March 20, 2019, 11:42:23 AM »
Not relevant to the immediate point you two are debating, but as to the bigger topic, this is pretty cool:  https://gigcarshare.com/sacramento/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxI-lyKGR4QIV2CCtBh2e_weYEAAYASAAEgIwP_D_BwE  Looking forward to using it. 
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Online Adami

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Re: The Official Climate Change Thread
« Reply #475 on: March 20, 2019, 11:51:52 AM »
Well that doesn't address the point Adami was making, and that girl is clearly not just a voice in the crowd with the results she's had.

Which is my point exactly.  She's the right person with the right message at the right time.

Which was my point....I think.....aside from Trump being an old white dude, he is a pretty intense climate change denier. In fact, if a group of people have a specific agenda that would lead to nominating that girl, then Trump is antithetical to that agenda, yet he also gets a nomination.

If you wouldn't personally nominate her, cool. I don't think Green Book should have even been nominated for Best Picture, let alone win, yet I wouldn't say it won solely because it's about racism.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2019, 11:59:27 AM by Adami »
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Offline Stadler

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Re: The Official Climate Change Thread
« Reply #476 on: March 20, 2019, 12:06:40 PM »
Well that doesn't address the point Adami was making, and that girl is clearly not just a voice in the crowd with the results she's had.

Which is my point exactly.  She's the right person with the right message at the right time.

Which was my point....I think.....aside from Trump being an old white dude, he is a pretty intense climate change denier. In fact, if a group of people have a specific agenda that would lead to nominating that girl, then Trump is antithetical to that agenda, yet he also gets a nomination.

If you wouldn't personally nominate her, cool. I don't think Green Book should have even been nominated for Best Picture, let alone win, yet I wouldn't say it won solely because it's about racism.

Would it have won if there was NO element of racism?   See, I don't think so.    And that's really the rub with Greta.  Look, I don't mean to piss on her parade; here's hoping she wins.   But I think a little objectivity is in order; if she did the same run of speeches with the comments I wrote earlier, she's not being nominated.   

Offline portnoy311

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Re: The Official Climate Change Thread
« Reply #477 on: March 20, 2019, 12:13:13 PM »
Well that doesn't address the point Adami was making, and that girl is clearly not just a voice in the crowd with the results she's had.

Which is my point exactly.  She's the right person with the right message at the right time.

Which was my point....I think.....aside from Trump being an old white dude, he is a pretty intense climate change denier. In fact, if a group of people have a specific agenda that would lead to nominating that girl, then Trump is antithetical to that agenda, yet he also gets a nomination.

If you wouldn't personally nominate her, cool. I don't think Green Book should have even been nominated for Best Picture, let alone win, yet I wouldn't say it won solely because it's about racism.

Would it have won if there was NO element of racism?   See, I don't think so.    And that's really the rub with Greta.  Look, I don't mean to piss on her parade; here's hoping she wins.   But I think a little objectivity is in order; if she did the same run of speeches with the comments I wrote earlier, she's not being nominated.

So if she had a completely different platform and was advocating against science she wouldn't be in the same spot? I can't say I disagree.

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Re: The Official Climate Change Thread
« Reply #478 on: March 20, 2019, 12:15:45 PM »
Indeed. I'm pretty sure if any nominees came out against things like peace, science, etc., they wouldn't be nominated. Not sure what's shocking about this.

If she somehow proved that climate change wasn't real, that would be something. But if all she did was get people riled up to deny climate change, then yup, she's not being nominated. Probably why, no matter the research, you won't see any flat earthers nominated.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: The Official Climate Change Thread
« Reply #479 on: March 20, 2019, 12:25:40 PM »
Well, I went back through and re-read both the articles and the posts to see how we got here, and I've voiced my concern with Greta.  Good for her, proud of her initiative, but skeptical of the attention and the adoration.  I really can't say any more than that, and don't really want to.

Though as an example of what I'm really concerned with in all this, I will leave you with this (about her "American" counterpart, Haven Coleman):

"Inspired by Greta Thunberg's protest in Sweden, [Haven] Coleman says she searched for other young activists to organize a similar school strike here. Now she co-directs the project with Alexandria Villaseñor, 13, of New York City, and Isra Hirsi, 16, of Minneapolis, the daughter of recently-elected Democratic U.S. Representative Ilhan Omar.

Their platform includes a call for Congress to pass the Green New Deal, which is aimed at speeding the country's transition to carbon-free energy and re-making the economy to spread wealth more evenly."

AND

"But Haven Coleman says neither energy companies nor state or national lawmakers are moving fast enough. She says striking school is extreme, and there's a reason for that.

"Because you're not really listening to us now, so this is the radical stuff that we need to do to get your attention," she says. "
https://www.npr.org/2019/03/14/703461293/skipping-school-to-protest-climate-change

So she's okay with disrupting her education and the education of those around her, because we're not moving fast enough on the wealth reallocation schemes for which she advocates?   That's what we're commending our kids for?   

Offline Stadler

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Re: The Official Climate Change Thread
« Reply #480 on: March 20, 2019, 12:29:03 PM »
So if she had a completely different platform and was advocating against science she wouldn't be in the same spot? I can't say I disagree.

If you want to play semantics games to facilitate your argument with me, I'm not really playing.   Opposing her position isn't de facto "advocating against science".    I've said numerous times that you can agree with the underlying science, but not all the quasi-scientific economic solutions to that science problem.  See my earlier post about her nomination, and my previous post about her American colleague and her embracement of the "Green New Deal" economic program.   

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Re: The Official Climate Change Thread
« Reply #481 on: March 20, 2019, 12:48:41 PM »
You may very well be right Stads. I don't know. But, much like The Oscars, I don't pay a lot of attention to awards. Even ones as prestigious as Nobel. They have lasting impact for the person in their field, but tend to not matter much after that. Anyone have any idea who won a Nobel in 2010? Me either.

And yes, I'd have the same attitude of Trump won the award for smartest, most handsome, kindest President with the biggest dick in human history. It's an award. I don't care.
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: The Official Climate Change Thread
« Reply #482 on: March 20, 2019, 12:51:53 PM »
Quote
On Friday, Thunberg took part in a rally in Stockholm, where she called climate change an "existential crisis"

Is it me or are people on the left using "Existential" all the time now?
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Offline Stadler

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Re: The Official Climate Change Thread
« Reply #483 on: March 20, 2019, 01:36:43 PM »
Quote
On Friday, Thunberg took part in a rally in Stockholm, where she called climate change an "existential crisis"

Is it me or are people on the left using "Existential" all the time now?


You're weird.  It's all in your head.  You're seeing things.   No way.   They didn't use "terrified" like they got a nickel in royalties every time, either. 

:) :angel: :tup

See, when it's an "existential" crisis, as opposed to being just a simple difference of opinion on a course forward, the moralization of the argument becomes built in.   It's a thing of beauty, actually, especially when contrasted with "just take a look, a stone cold LOSER & husband from hell!"

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Re: The Official Climate Change Thread
« Reply #484 on: March 20, 2019, 01:40:19 PM »
No need to turn this more into a left vs right thing guys. Not helping things.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: The Official Climate Change Thread
« Reply #485 on: March 20, 2019, 01:53:00 PM »
No need to turn this more into a left vs right thing guys. Not helping things.

Probably not, but I took a LOT of shit for saying the exact same thing about "terrified" in the immediate aftermath of the November 2016 election, even though I could DOCUMENT it (it all stems, basically, from landmark studies by George Lakoff in the area of "framing".   He's got several books on the matter, but the specific one for this context is "Don't Think Of An Elephant".) 

Here's a great article on the concept:   https://www.theguardian.com/science/head-quarters/2017/jul/20/the-power-of-framing-its-not-what-you-say-its-how-you-say-it

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Re: The Official Climate Change Thread
« Reply #486 on: March 20, 2019, 01:55:30 PM »
No need to turn this more into a left vs right thing guys. Not helping things.

Probably not, but I took a LOT of shit for saying the exact same thing about "terrified" in the immediate aftermath of the November 2016 election, even though I could DOCUMENT it (it all stems, basically, from landmark studies by George Lakoff in the area of "framing".   He's got several books on the matter, but the specific one for this context is "Don't Think Of An Elephant".) 

Here's a great article on the concept:   https://www.theguardian.com/science/head-quarters/2017/jul/20/the-power-of-framing-its-not-what-you-say-its-how-you-say-it

Cool. But that's not an excuse for furthering the identity politics that I just interrupted and that you so heavily (and rightfully) rail against.

I know it's frustrating. Breathe. :)
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Offline Stadler

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Re: The Official Climate Change Thread
« Reply #487 on: March 27, 2019, 11:16:08 AM »
This is almost exclusively for Chino:

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/03/mike-lee-speech-babies-solution-climate-change-green-new-deal.html

Now, I respectfully ask that this not turn into a "Dem vs. Rep" cage match - Mike Lee doesn't speak for the Republican Party with this almost parodic position any more than Rashisa Tlaib speaks for all Democrats with her zealous and irrational craving for impeachment - but this is a conversation-worthy speech, since it seems to be almost paradoxically flawed from the get-go.

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: The Official Climate Change Thread
« Reply #488 on: March 27, 2019, 11:35:13 AM »
Quote
He asserts “the Green New Deal calls for the elimination of all airplanes” — it does not — and proceeds to argue that, in the absence of airplanes, travel would be conducted by “tauntauns,”

That would be the greatest idea in the history of humankind, but as we all know, those bastards buckle over and die if it gets a little chilly out. Talk about unreliable.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: The Official Climate Change Thread
« Reply #489 on: March 27, 2019, 12:35:11 PM »
Quote
He asserts “the Green New Deal calls for the elimination of all airplanes” — it does not — and proceeds to argue that, in the absence of airplanes, travel would be conducted by “tauntauns,”

That would be the greatest idea in the history of humankind, but as we all know, those bastards buckle over and die if it gets a little chilly out. Talk about unreliable.

They stink too.