Author Topic: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man  (Read 131160 times)

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Online jingle.boy

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #1995 on: September 11, 2019, 08:17:04 AM »
I think the most surprising thing I just read is that you though Chrissy Tiegen was "better than that".   :lol

I found her to be a complete waste of skin, and if she wasn't married to John Legend, wouldn't be any kind of household name.
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Offline XeRocks81

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #1996 on: September 11, 2019, 08:17:50 AM »
I donít know, the holier than thou approach doesnít seem so appealing to me either.  I think in certain cades we can both be critical and insulting.  El Barto does it all the time with Trump. 

Offline Harmony

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #1997 on: September 11, 2019, 08:23:25 AM »
I think the most surprising thing I just read is that you though Chrissy Tiegen was "better than that".   :lol

I found her to be a complete waste of skin, and if she wasn't married to John Legend, wouldn't be any kind of household name.

TBH, I don't really know anything about her.  I was trying to make a point is all.

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #1998 on: September 11, 2019, 08:31:07 AM »
I donít know, the holier than thou approach doesnít seem so appealing to me either.  I think in certain cades we can both be critical and insulting.  El Barto does it all the time with Trump.

I can't argue with that conceptually; there's no reason we can't be entertaining while being analytical.  But there's a time and a place, and a balance to be struck.    And I'm not suggesting "holier than thou".   Civil is enough.  If you're at work, and looking for proposals for something and your colleague Cedric says "what about this?".   If you disagree do you say "Who did you blow to get your job?  Are you on cocaine?  #FFS #moronsonparade #Privateschooldouchebag"?   Then why say it on Twitter or wherever? 

Or, and here's a novel thought that I am 99% certain most people haven't even thought of... maybe say nothing?  That was my point with the "I don't watch Fox News" point; it's not a sin to just let things fade into the ether.   

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #1999 on: September 11, 2019, 08:44:20 AM »
I think the most surprising thing I just read is that you though Chrissy Tiegen was "better than that".   :lol

I found her to be a complete waste of skin, and if she wasn't married to John Legend, wouldn't be any kind of household name.

Well, she's a pretty big time model; she was the 50th Anniversary Sports Illustrated Swimsuit issue cover model, and a TV host. 

But why does that matter?  Why wouldn't we hope that our fellow citizens might elevate their game?  She has a voice, people do listen to her for better or worse (11+ million followers on Twitter) and if you look at her Twitter feed, her tweet about what she had for dinner last night and what she does while in the car alone (no, not as titillating as it sounds) get likes in the low 10,000's, but her retweet of Ellen praising her for being called some name by the President and responding in kind got somewhere in the 350,000 like range. 

« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 08:49:55 AM by Stadler »

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #2000 on: September 11, 2019, 08:48:49 AM »
Who the hell is Chrissey Teigen? And of course she could just say nothing but why give up an easy chance to add a few points to your woke total? Not to mention get some press. It is certainly the first time I've been made aware of her existence.
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Offline XeRocks81

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #2001 on: September 11, 2019, 08:52:18 AM »
Who the hell is Chrissey Teigen? And of course she could just say nothing but why give up an easy chance to add a few points to your woke total? Not to mention get some press. It is certainly the first time I've been made aware of her existence.

that doesnít really say anything in 2019 that you donít know who she is,  just means culture is fragmented.  It is what it is. 

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #2002 on: September 11, 2019, 09:02:29 AM »
I readily admit I live under a cultural rock. She could be the biggest musical star/actress/author/TV personality/YouTube sensation And I likely wouldn't know who she was.

Just looked her up. She is a model? No reason any one outside the fashion industry needs to have heard of her.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 09:14:51 AM by Cool Chris »
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Offline XeRocks81

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #2003 on: September 11, 2019, 09:18:08 AM »
she co hosted lip sync battle with LL Cool J, and sheís married to John legend thatís how I know her.

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #2004 on: September 11, 2019, 09:26:52 AM »
Just looked her up. She is a model? No reason any one outside the fashion industry needs to have heard of her.
That's not entirely correct. It's like saying nobody should know who Christie Brinkley or Elle Macpherson are.
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Offline eric42434224

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #2005 on: September 11, 2019, 09:35:23 AM »
Sad how 99% of the discussion is about swimsuit models and random internet commenters being chastised for not being civil, and barely a sentence or two about the POTUS or a nationally televised show host acting just as bad, more frequently, and actually initiating the incidents.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 09:44:06 AM by eric42434224 »
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Offline Harmony

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #2006 on: September 11, 2019, 09:47:47 AM »
Sad how 99% of the discussion is about swimsuit models and random internet commenters being chastised for not being civil, and barely a sentence or two about the POTUS or a nationally televised show host acting just as bad, more frequently, and actually initiating the incidents.

Itís because thatís what Trump does. Nobody batts an eye anymore. Elect a clown, expect a circus.

Offline Adami

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #2007 on: September 11, 2019, 10:22:33 AM »
Itís a great tactic. Ignore the bullies. Yell at the people responding to the bullies in not ideal ways.

Effectively gives certain people free reign to say and do whatever as long as random anonymous people are also jerks. Itís a bit black and white, but thatís what weíve become I guess.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 10:36:35 AM by Adami »
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Online Stadler

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #2008 on: September 11, 2019, 10:54:44 AM »
I can't speak for anyone else, but for me that's a false narrative and not what's happening.  I'm not "ignoring" Trump or his bullying, nor am I numb to it.  It's bad, and it's dangerous for our country.

BUT:
- I don't believe Trump is the "end of democracy" or an "existential threat" as he's been ramped up to be;
- I don't believe that Trump is an anomaly, to be corrected simply by the appropriate Democrat candidate;
- I don't believe that we're going to magically turn off the tactics once Trump is gone; just the opposite, I think it's (metaphorically) the Christie Teigen's of the world that gave us Trump to begin with.  Trump has just taken things to the extreme;
- I do believe, in part, Trump was elected in response to the bullying that is more and more evidence (particularly in the identity politics arena).

So rather than it being some "deflection", it's in fact my approach to dealing with the Trump problem.  Trump is not going to change.  The conventional attacks against Trump have not worked.   I don't have a dialogue with Trump (and it would not be meaningful even if I did).   So - much like I keep hearing we have to do in response to the mass killing problem - I'm doing something, anything, to reduce the chances of Trump winning again by focusing on the things I can perhaps influence.   I'm not perfect, but I try very hard to avoid yelling or bullying - there are no boycotts, I am not in any ad hominem way disparaging anyone that doesn't agree with me, and with very very few exceptions, I'm not making any assumptions about people's intelligence or mental stability based on their opinions on the matter - just trying to point out what I'm seeing from the standpoint of an uninvolved observer.   
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 11:03:11 AM by Stadler »

Offline Adami

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #2009 on: September 11, 2019, 11:17:24 AM »
And we all get your talking points and sound bytes.

So can we talk about the issue? If everything gets the response of ďsociety as a whole has to change!Ē Then itís effectively no different than blowing it off.

You canít only focus on big picture stuff. That is aspirational and the end goal. Not the first step. So constantly going back to the end goal is meaningless if it shuts down convo on the current topic. Which it does, no matter your intention.
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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #2010 on: September 11, 2019, 11:25:30 AM »
And we all get your talking points and sound bytes.

So can we talk about the issue? If everything gets the response of ďsociety as a whole has to change!Ē Then itís effectively no different than blowing it off.

You canít only focus on big picture stuff. That is aspirational and the end goal. Not the first step. So constantly going back to the end goal is meaningless if it shuts down convo on the current topic. Which it does, no matter your intention.
The problem with your point is that sometimes you do need to yell at the people responding to the bully in appropriately. That's been the case here. Teagan doesn't get a free pass for acting like a child when responding to a child. Nobody's dismissing Trump's lunacy. Hell, nobody's really attacking Teagan all that much. Some have simply pointed out, quite rightly, that she's not helping.
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Offline eric42434224

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #2011 on: September 11, 2019, 11:25:56 AM »
Exactly.  We were focusing on the fact that, in this very thread even,that Trump, the POTUS FFS, gets less shit for his bullshit that the random citizen for responding with bullshit.

-No one in this thread said we believe Trump is the "end of democracy" or an "existential threat" as he's been ramped up to be.
-No one in this thread said we believe that Trump is an anomaly, to be corrected simply by the appropriate Democrat candidate.....but we SHOULD take a FIRST STEP to try and bring things trending towards some level of normalcy and respect.
-No one here said we believe that we're going to magically turn off the tactics once Trump is gone; just the opposite, I think it's (metaphorically) the Christie Teigen's of the world that gave us Trump to begin with.  Trump has just taken things to the extreme....we should make SOME effort to curb his behavior.
-I do believe, in part, Trump was elected in response to the bullying that is more and more evidence (particularly in the identity politics arena).....so elect a bully, then ignore/normalize his bullying?  Sounds kind of insane.

We shouldn't lose sight of the big aspirational picture for sure.  All for it.  But to ignore or neglect the small steps needed to get there will make that Big Picture Dream just a pipe dream.
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Offline Adami

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #2012 on: September 11, 2019, 11:29:23 AM »
And we all get your talking points and sound bytes.

So can we talk about the issue? If everything gets the response of ďsociety as a whole has to change!Ē Then itís effectively no different than blowing it off.

You canít only focus on big picture stuff. That is aspirational and the end goal. Not the first step. So constantly going back to the end goal is meaningless if it shuts down convo on the current topic. Which it does, no matter your intention.
The problem with your point is that sometimes you do need to yell at the people responding to the bully in appropriately. That's been the case here. Teagan doesn't get a free pass for acting like a child when responding to a child. Nobody's dismissing Trump's lunacy. Hell, nobody's really attacking Teagan all that much. Some have simply pointed out, quite rightly, that she's not helping.

Oh. Sorry. I largely ignored that stuff. I was referring to the FOX person vs. random commenters.
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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #2013 on: September 11, 2019, 11:45:43 AM »
And we all get your talking points and sound bytes.

So can we talk about the issue? If everything gets the response of ďsociety as a whole has to change!Ē Then itís effectively no different than blowing it off.

You canít only focus on big picture stuff. That is aspirational and the end goal. Not the first step. So constantly going back to the end goal is meaningless if it shuts down convo on the current topic. Which it does, no matter your intention.

I'm sorry you see it that way.  I respectfully disagree.   I think having to wade through ad hominem, meaningless attacks shuts down the conversation just as fast, if not faster than lofty goals.  I don't think I've ever left a discussion because "it's too aspirational!".   I have left conversations when it devolves into meaningless ad hominem commentary.   

And it's not just about "big picture aspirational goals", although that's certainly part of it.  It's mainly about owning one's part in that big picture.  Tend your own garden; when one thinks they're being quippy and hilarious with the "nice wig you p****a** b****" maybe take a pause. I know I listen to Trump talk - he's speaking right now, in fact, from the White House - and I often think "Why did you say that?  Was that necessary?  Why couldn't you just let that go?" I wish I could get him to maybe take a pause, but I can't.  If even one person responds with "you know, maybe I don't want to contribute to the noise", or maybe "I'm going to respond with something substantive", I would consider that a rejection of the Trump style of political discourse, and as such, a tactical win.

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #2014 on: September 11, 2019, 11:50:12 AM »
Point made: my position - albeit wrongly summarized - dismissed as "kind of insane". 

I'm out.   

Offline Adami

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #2015 on: September 11, 2019, 11:50:24 AM »
And I agree with you.

But itís also not what every convo needs to turn into. Especially when youíre largely responding on DTF to things non-DTFers are saying elsewhere.

You complaining about YouTube (or wherever) commenters doesnít do anything. Theyíre not reading it. And we; on DTF, arenít the intended audience. A lot of the time itís venting. I get that. I do. But letís not pretend itís a whole lot more than that. If someone wants to vent about Trump, or Fox, or you want to vent about commenters or CNN, itís all the same and doesnít always have to end or be steered toward your domain (of which I have been informed that you are the master).
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Offline eric42434224

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #2016 on: September 11, 2019, 12:13:17 PM »
Point made: my position - albeit wrongly summarized - dismissed as "kind of insane". 

I'm out.

Ok.........That was an observation of the situation as a whole in the US, and was not meant to singularly address you.   I took your point, expanded on it, and made my assessment.  Donít take it personal. 

To elect a someone in response to bullying (your point)>>>>>>>but then elect an actual bully (my point), then normalize his bullying (my point) IS pretty insane behavior.

This clearly was not directed at you personally, and if there was any question, I just stated it.  So no need for a dramatic exit from the thread  :chill
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 02:08:43 PM by eric42434224 »
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would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #2018 on: September 11, 2019, 06:16:04 PM »
Why do Republicans hate the troops so much that they would skip the 9/11 memorial?
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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #2020 on: September 13, 2019, 01:23:20 PM »
Great news, Bill! Looks like Jon Stewart is going to make shaming congress an ongoing thing.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/jon-stewart-burn-pit-victims-psa

This is actually kind of an old scenario. The US military likes to find legally ambiguous places to do shady shit. The very first official recognition of Area 51 actually occurred because of a lawsuit filed by people who worked burn pits there, and damn, they sure could have used Jon Stewart back then. Took forever for those guys make their case since they worked in dreamland (literally and figuratively) and were sworn to secrecy.
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