Author Topic: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man  (Read 219086 times)

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Offline TAC

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #2275 on: March 02, 2021, 03:01:36 PM »
If you outlaw burritos, then only outlaws have burritos.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline XeRocks81

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #2276 on: March 02, 2021, 03:03:33 PM »
well now Iím really hungry

Offline Nekov

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #2277 on: March 02, 2021, 03:18:40 PM »
Jammin, I have one question regarding this topic. You say that you believe that the words in the Bible are the words of God. How do you reconcile that with the fact that what is considered biblical canon was decided by the catholic church? It is my understanding that there are several other texts that have been presented as the word of God but but it was decided that those were not truly the word of God. It is also my understanding that the canon was modified as "recently" as 1870. How can you be so sure that the book we have today is accurate when so many different people over the years have decided what "truly" is the word of God and what isn't? How can men, who are so imperfect as to sometimes not recognize the word of good be trusted to decided what is and what isn't his word?

I got deep into this years ago, so Iím going a bit from memory here. (I actually thank you, because this encourages me to go back for a refresher)

But my recollection is that even when the Latin Vulgate was first put together, notations were made by Jerome that he was including some additional writings that were not authenticated and were questionable as to their origins. Whereas the 66 books most commonly found in most bibles today were far more reliable as to their origins and historicity in all respects. So even 16 centuries ago, they were considered far more reputable than the additional texts.

I don't want to sound pushy or anything, but that still doesn't answer my question. When you say authenticated, authenticated by whom? Why are some texts more reputable than other? Given what you've said about certain teachers being willing to teach the wrong thing if they are paid to do so, doesn't that leave the door open to consider certain texts more reputable than others if those texts fit the narrative that someone wants to maintain? Is it nor possible that certain "teachers" chose to leave out texts that were contrary to what they wanted to teach?
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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #2278 on: March 02, 2021, 04:07:00 PM »
Jammin, I have one question regarding this topic. You say that you believe that the words in the Bible are the words of God. How do you reconcile that with the fact that what is considered biblical canon was decided by the catholic church? It is my understanding that there are several other texts that have been presented as the word of God but but it was decided that those were not truly the word of God. It is also my understanding that the canon was modified as "recently" as 1870. How can you be so sure that the book we have today is accurate when so many different people over the years have decided what "truly" is the word of God and what isn't? How can men, who are so imperfect as to sometimes not recognize the word of good be trusted to decided what is and what isn't his word?

I got deep into this years ago, so Iím going a bit from memory here. (I actually thank you, because this encourages me to go back for a refresher)

But my recollection is that even when the Latin Vulgate was first put together, notations were made by Jerome that he was including some additional writings that were not authenticated and were questionable as to their origins. Whereas the 66 books most commonly found in most bibles today were far more reliable as to their origins and historicity in all respects. So even 16 centuries ago, they were considered far more reputable than the additional texts.

I don't want to sound pushy or anything, but that still doesn't answer my question. When you say authenticated, authenticated by whom? Why are some texts more reputable than other? Given what you've said about certain teachers being willing to teach the wrong thing if they are paid to do so, doesn't that leave the door open to consider certain texts more reputable than others if those texts fit the narrative that someone wants to maintain? Is it nor possible that certain "teachers" chose to leave out texts that were contrary to what they wanted to teach?

Better yet, whom determined that The Bible is the all knowing truth of God and not any other Oral Tradition? Whom determined that Christianity or Catholicism or Judaism or Islam is the one true faith?...

Reminds me of this....
"Which is the one true faith?"

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Offline jammindude

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #2279 on: March 02, 2021, 04:17:25 PM »
Internal evidence. Thatís truly the only short answer I can give you. I have hit this wall too many times. There is literally tons of internal evidence that I have studied over my life that have built my faith by means of Bible knowledge. But the evidence can only be presented one shred at a time. And you know as well as I do that if someone isnít really interested in the end result, it will ALWAYS turn into straw man arguments that go nowhere.

Iím kind of on the road right now, but Iíll pray about this and maybe type more thoughts later.
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Offline eric42434224

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #2280 on: March 02, 2021, 06:19:34 PM »
Internal evidence. Thatís truly the only short answer I can give you. I have hit this wall too many times. There is literally tons of internal evidence that I have studied over my life that have built my faith by means of Bible knowledge. But the evidence can only be presented one shred at a time. And you know as well as I do that if someone isnít really interested in the end result, it will ALWAYS turn into straw man arguments that go nowhere.

Iím kind of on the road right now, but Iíll pray about this and maybe type more thoughts later.

This bolded part is interesting.  Too many people have already been given the "result", which is usually determined by your parents or geography.  Then most will interpret anything they examine to fit that "result".
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Offline Nekov

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #2281 on: March 02, 2021, 06:20:38 PM »
I agree with you that this discussion will hardly end with me suddenly believing in the Bible, I think there is certain level of faith that is required and I'm sure I don't have it.  :smiley: Nevertheless, I appreciate the insight, specially since last year I took a course in theology and I found it to be quite interesting. Some of these questions I am asking you have been jumping around in my mind for a while now.
Going back to the point at hand, let's say for the matter of argument that I agree with you that there is internal evidence that proves that what is written in the Bible is actually Gods word. How do you know that it is complete? On the one hand, we have all these other texts that have been deemed "false" but which very few people have had access to. On the other hand, it seems a little strange that God has not spoken to humankind in such a long time. Is it possible that the set of beliefs you have is incomplete?
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #2282 on: March 03, 2021, 06:17:02 AM »
In all my studies Iíve never seen anything credible beyond revisionist history established by Constantine (and others) several hundred years after the fact. The oldest records (closer to the source) refer to a single piece of timber. And I never said that he didnít have his feet nailed as well, so Iím not sure where that even came from.
I certainly can't speak to your studies and what you've studied, but I'm not really talking anything nearly as late as Constantine.  The word did originally mean one piece of wood, but by Roman times, it was also applied to their multiple ways of crucifixion, many of which also involved a crossbar.  There is nothing in the text to point to the exact shape of Jesus's cross, so I see no reason to accept the ONE that runs counter to the accepted history.  But hey, this is America, you can believe what you want.

And even if it had been a cross (and the evidence says otherwise) the fact that people venerate the death instrument of our lord and king is not only unscriptural...but fairly morbid.

ďMy brother was killed with a knife, so I found the murder weapon and hung it up on a wall in my house.Ē

Seriously....what the crap?
Well, on this we are in total agreement. 
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Offline Stadler

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #2283 on: March 03, 2021, 06:32:25 AM »
Internal evidence. Thatís truly the only short answer I can give you. I have hit this wall too many times. There is literally tons of internal evidence that I have studied over my life that have built my faith by means of Bible knowledge. But the evidence can only be presented one shred at a time. And you know as well as I do that if someone isnít really interested in the end result, it will ALWAYS turn into straw man arguments that go nowhere.

Iím kind of on the road right now, but Iíll pray about this and maybe type more thoughts later.

This bolded part is interesting.  Too many people have already been given the "result", which is usually determined by your parents or geography.  Then most will interpret anything they examine to fit that "result".

The problem with this line of inquiry - with the discussion, not your part in it - is that it's misleading to those that aren't careful to look at the big picture.

One, whether the parents are God-fearing Catholics or soul-less atheists*, they are likely to - explicitly or implicitly - pass their belief systems on.  That there's far more of one than the other doesn't change that.   Two, since it is more likely that a pro-religion, pro-God point of view will be passed on by virtue of parents/geography, it's far more obvious when the offspring diverges and decides that perhaps the message isn't right (the obvious outcome there is atheism).  It ignores that there might be some or even all of those to whom the message was passed that ALSO independently corroborate the message and decide to stick with it.  It gives a sort of false integrity to the "atheism" path, as if that's some more pure level of "independent thinking".

I was raised Catholic, not by choice; very end of high school and into college I realized that I had the choice to explore this avenue of my life, and arrive at my own conclusions.  That I didn't land squarely on "atheism" isn't a reflection of the work put in or the rigor of the process.





* I'm joking, as well as presenting the common "hand me down" argument. I do not think all Catholics are God-fearing, and I don't think any atheists are soul-less, at least not because of their atheism.

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #2284 on: March 03, 2021, 09:25:00 AM »
Internal evidence. Thatís truly the only short answer I can give you. I have hit this wall too many times. There is literally tons of internal evidence that I have studied over my life that have built my faith by means of Bible knowledge. But the evidence can only be presented one shred at a time. And you know as well as I do that if someone isnít really interested in the end result, it will ALWAYS turn into straw man arguments that go nowhere.

Iím kind of on the road right now, but Iíll pray about this and maybe type more thoughts later.

This bolded part is interesting.  Too many people have already been given the "result", which is usually determined by your parents or geography.  Then most will interpret anything they examine to fit that "result".

The problem with this line of inquiry - with the discussion, not your part in it - is that it's misleading to those that aren't careful to look at the big picture.

One, whether the parents are God-fearing Catholics or soul-less atheists*, they are likely to - explicitly or implicitly - pass their belief systems on.  That there's far more of one than the other doesn't change that.   Two, since it is more likely that a pro-religion, pro-God point of view will be passed on by virtue of parents/geography, it's far more obvious when the offspring diverges and decides that perhaps the message isn't right (the obvious outcome there is atheism).  It ignores that there might be some or even all of those to whom the message was passed that ALSO independently corroborate the message and decide to stick with it.  It gives a sort of false integrity to the "atheism" path, as if that's some more pure level of "independent thinking".

I was raised Catholic, not by choice; very end of high school and into college I realized that I had the choice to explore this avenue of my life, and arrive at my own conclusions.  That I didn't land squarely on "atheism" isn't a reflection of the work put in or the rigor of the process.





* I'm joking, as well as presenting the common "hand me down" argument. I do not think all Catholics are God-fearing, and I don't think any atheists are soul-less, at least not because of their atheism.

That's why, I think, the Amish let their kids experience the outside life. To let them decide for themselves if they want to continue LIVING the Amish way of life, or to leave and live the life of the outside.

It's really interesting to see what the numbers would be for those that come back and those that leave but return later in life. I do not know if they are accepted back into Amish life, if so, it'll be harder the longer you stray as you tend to forget things, because those things learned are lived through, if you live it it's harder to forget.
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Offline Dave_Manchester

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #2285 on: March 08, 2021, 05:42:48 PM »
On the off-chance anyone missed Harry and Meghan's interview with Oprah I've summarised the 2 biggest revelations below:

1. The British royal family were hostile towards a mixed-race American feminist.

2. Meghan once jumped into a lake and was astonished to find out it was wet.
"As democracy is perfected, the office of President represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their hearts' desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron" - H.L.Mencken, 26th July 1920.

"China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very very large brain" - American President Donald Trump, 26th September 2018.

Offline TAC

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #2286 on: March 08, 2021, 05:44:23 PM »


2. Meghan once jumped into a lake and was astonished to find out it was wet.

She probably expected it to be wet, just not that wet..
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline Dave_Manchester

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #2287 on: March 08, 2021, 06:33:00 PM »
Possibly so but then Harry needed to do a better job of educating her about the twisted institution she was marrying into. His own mother, Diana, was not accepted and she was from a very prominent British aristocratic family, the Spencers (the same family that produced Winston Churchill; he was a distant cousin of Diana). When any woman marries into that clan they have only one job description: broodmare for the House of Windsor, and if they know what's good for them they keep silent while going about it if they don't want to end up smeared across a Parisian tunnel. I can understand Meghan not knowing this but Harry's naivete confuses me. Him bringing a dark-skinned American feminist to meet the Queen is the equivalent of a 16-year-old preacher's daughter inviting her middle-aged Hell's Angel boyfriend to dinner. Harry seems honestly suprised that as soon as the Family saw an opportunity to cut them loose, they took it. I'm not. This was all so predictable.
"As democracy is perfected, the office of President represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their hearts' desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron" - H.L.Mencken, 26th July 1920.

"China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very very large brain" - American President Donald Trump, 26th September 2018.

Offline El Barto

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #2288 on: March 08, 2021, 06:53:51 PM »
Possibly so but then Harry needed to do a better job of educating her about the twisted institution she was marrying into. His own mother, Diana, was not accepted and she was from a very prominent British aristocratic family, the Spencers (the same family that produced Winston Churchill; he was a distant cousin of Diana). When any woman marries into that clan they have only one job description: broodmare for the House of Windsor, and if they know what's good for them they keep silent while going about it if they don't want to end up smeared across a Parisian tunnel. I can understand Meghan not knowing this but Harry's naivete confuses me. Him bringing a dark-skinned American feminist to meet the Queen is the equivalent of a 16-year-old preacher's daughter inviting her middle-aged Hell's Angel boyfriend to dinner. Harry seems honestly suprised that as soon as the Family saw an opportunity to cut them loose, they took it. I'm not. This was all so predictable.
Well that was a little provocative. Got some theory you'd like to share?

Also, is it possible that his, er, questionable heritage might factor into the willingness to just get him the hell out of Dodge?
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Offline TAC

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #2289 on: March 08, 2021, 06:58:14 PM »
Is Meghan Markle a feminist? What does that mean?
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline Dave_Manchester

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #2290 on: March 08, 2021, 07:04:18 PM »
Possibly so but then Harry needed to do a better job of educating her about the twisted institution she was marrying into. His own mother, Diana, was not accepted and she was from a very prominent British aristocratic family, the Spencers (the same family that produced Winston Churchill; he was a distant cousin of Diana). When any woman marries into that clan they have only one job description: broodmare for the House of Windsor, and if they know what's good for them they keep silent while going about it if they don't want to end up smeared across a Parisian tunnel. I can understand Meghan not knowing this but Harry's naivete confuses me. Him bringing a dark-skinned American feminist to meet the Queen is the equivalent of a 16-year-old preacher's daughter inviting her middle-aged Hell's Angel boyfriend to dinner. Harry seems honestly suprised that as soon as the Family saw an opportunity to cut them loose, they took it. I'm not. This was all so predictable.
Well that was a little provocative. Got some theory you'd like to share?

Also, is it possible that his, er, questionable heritage might factor into the willingness to just get him the hell out of Dodge?

You mean the fact he's seemingly got as much of Charles's DNA in him as I have? Possibly, possibly.

As for the tunnel comment, I'm not suggesting she was deliberately killed, because she wasn't. But if the Family hadn't cut her loose there is no way she'd have been in that car that night without very stringent Special Branch protection. There is no space within that institution for independent voices. If Diana had submitted to a life of silent servitude, as Kate is doing now with William, she would currently be playing with her grandchildren.
"As democracy is perfected, the office of President represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their hearts' desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron" - H.L.Mencken, 26th July 1920.

"China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very very large brain" - American President Donald Trump, 26th September 2018.

Offline Progmetty

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #2291 on: March 08, 2021, 11:36:45 PM »
I know it's silly but the most fascinating thing I see in this; is how Oprah manages to remain relevant. It fuckin bedazzles me, I mean she's had that going for her since what? the mid nineties maybe? Where every time a subject generates great curiosity and attention, she manages to interview hard-to-reach people from it's center. No one asks for Oprah, she just successfully shoves herself into relevance every time! Who ever said "Wow! This story is crazy! I wish Oprah interviews somebody about it"? It's almost like -in a different scale- how Kevin James keeps making movies and I've literally never met a fuckin Kevin James fan or anybody that anticipates his movies.

I'm also starting to think that less people know that the British royalty has no governing power than I thought, cause if more people know then what's special here? It's no different than the drama with Hollywood couples! It's an interest in watching rich people embarrassed? I dunno.

But aside from that, I do admire Harry and Meghan, but especially Harry. I mean here's a prince who could have easily spent his entire life being rich, comfortable and famous, but chose to leave all that for the well being of his family, hats off for that. Instead he now has to work to survive, albeit that work is celebrity cushiony work, but it's something that requires some attention nonetheless. I frankly don't think I would have made that choice, maybe cause my ultimate dream it to make a living without performing the actual task of paying attention heh. In Harry's shoes; I totally would have picked the "suck it up" option.

One other thing I noticed here is how I feel nothing about any of it. In my twenties I used to secretly pride myself on being a very empathetic person, but that has certainly gone down the drain when it comes to rich people problems, Harry and Meghan own a house in Santa Barbara while I go to sleep every night thinking about how I'll manage to pay my mortgage next month, on a small house in Texas. And I'm pretty sure the vast majority of the people with interest in this story, those emotionally engaged by it, are of my financial status and/or lower, but they gotta be better humans than than I am cause I simply could not give a genuine shit about these people's problems, this is just popcorn entertainment for me.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #2292 on: March 09, 2021, 06:54:26 AM »
Possibly so but then Harry needed to do a better job of educating her about the twisted institution she was marrying into. His own mother, Diana, was not accepted and she was from a very prominent British aristocratic family, the Spencers (the same family that produced Winston Churchill; he was a distant cousin of Diana). When any woman marries into that clan they have only one job description: broodmare for the House of Windsor, and if they know what's good for them they keep silent while going about it if they don't want to end up smeared across a Parisian tunnel. I can understand Meghan not knowing this but Harry's naivete confuses me. Him bringing a dark-skinned American feminist to meet the Queen is the equivalent of a 16-year-old preacher's daughter inviting her middle-aged Hell's Angel boyfriend to dinner. Harry seems honestly suprised that as soon as the Family saw an opportunity to cut them loose, they took it. I'm not. This was all so predictable.
Well that was a little provocative. Got some theory you'd like to share?

Also, is it possible that his, er, questionable heritage might factor into the willingness to just get him the hell out of Dodge?

You mean the fact he's seemingly got as much of Charles's DNA in him as I have? Possibly, possibly.

As for the tunnel comment, I'm not suggesting she was deliberately killed, because she wasn't. But if the Family hadn't cut her loose there is no way she'd have been in that car that night without very stringent Special Branch protection. There is no space within that institution for independent voices. If Diana had submitted to a life of silent servitude, as Kate is doing now with William, she would currently be playing with her grandchildren.

As a subject of the Crown, what is your take on all this?   I have pretty strong opinions on the events of the last couple months, and anyone who has read even 25 words from me in P/R probably already knows that we can just leave it at "Meghan probably doesn't want to know what I think".    I think there's going to be some significant fall out from this (and it's not a surprise to me that all indications are that Harry has been 24/7 on damage control since, including public statements contradicting/clarifying his wife that his grandparents had no part of the racial tomfoolery. 

Offline Stadler

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #2293 on: March 09, 2021, 07:04:33 AM »
I've literally never met a fuckin Kevin James fan or anybody that anticipates his movies.

I like King Of Queens, but that's only in part because of Kevin James, and mostly because of Jerry Stiller, because the couple reminds me a lot of me and my wife, and I think Leah Remini is kinda hot. 

Quote
One other thing I noticed here is how I feel nothing about any of it. In my twenties I used to secretly pride myself on being a very empathetic person, but that has certainly gone down the drain when it comes to rich people problems, Harry and Meghan own a house in Santa Barbara while I go to sleep every night thinking about how I'll manage to pay my mortgage next month, on a small house in Texas. And I'm pretty sure the vast majority of the people with interest in this story, those emotionally engaged by it, are of my financial status and/or lower, but they gotta be better humans than than I am cause I simply could not give a genuine shit about these people's problems, this is just popcorn entertainment for me.

I'm with you - I didn't watch it, but the interview was on in the other room.   I didn't hear details, but I did hear Oprah straining all credibility to remain relevant.  :)   But whether I'm interested or not, it's important to note whether other people find it interesting or not.   My wife is a sort of gossip fan (this is a regular conversation in our house:  "Bill, [so-and-so] just had her baby" or "Hey, see [so-and-so]? She's now dating [another so-and-so]".    My response, always:  "Who are these people?"  I feel like TAC in my own home.)

There's relevance in this notion that she's "fighting the power" (in quotes because she's fighting nothing, other than herself and her credibility, IMO) and honestly believes she's right (something I write about a lot in P/R; "believing" you're right is not the same as "BEING right").  No regard for anyone other than her - including her own family, and, if you believe the "insider sources", not even her own husband.   I can't imagine living that kind of life.  What good do vague, unspecific accusations do to really change things?  Dave wrote "silent servitude", and I guess that has an implication to it, but why is that so bad?   Kate - and Meghan - knew what they were getting into.  I don't really track with that idea of knowingly getting involved in something then purposefully blowing it all up.  Does she think she's changing any minds with this?  Is this a crusade? 

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #2294 on: March 15, 2021, 10:04:31 PM »
What the hell is going on in Myanmar?
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Offline Dave_Manchester

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #2295 on: March 16, 2021, 03:09:10 PM »
What the hell is going on in Myanmar?
My guess is it's another square on the chessboard of this new cold war between China and the USA that I've been rambling on about. China has a vested strategic interest in Myanmar and has done for years, it's located at the crossroads of South and Southeast Asia and it offers China access to strategic trade routes in the Indian Ocean. A 'peaceful' and 'democratic' Myanmar undermines China's leverage over its government and military.

I have no real idea, I'm just speculating based on historical patterns rather than any specific knowledge of this particular situation, but I'm guessing China has financed a coup at the time when the US was in a period of chaotic transition from one Admin to the next. I find it telling that when it all kicked off last month, China (along with Russia of course) blocked a UN Security Council statement condemning the military takeover:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-55913947

They've since softened their stance, 5 days ago they added their voices to the other countries on the Council who have denounced the bloodshed, but the cynic in me can't help but notice they've done this only once it's a completely meaningless gesture because the takeover has already happened.

Interesting events for sure. It could all be a freakish occurence, the military deciding to do this now, but I tend not to think so. The first question I ask myself when trying to make sense of world events is "Why has this happened exactly now?" and for this story I keep coming back to the very simple answer: "Ah that's right, China is shoring up its empire in the east". In my opinion it's part of the same operation that has seen them cracking down on Hong Kong and circling their ships off the coast of Taiwan. I could be wrong, like I said that whole region isn't really my area of interest, but either way America's response over the next few months will be interesting to observe (being charitable to China and holding back on the 'blame', this has at least been a fortuitous turn of events for them). Honestly this is starting to remind me of Putin's playbook, always seeing how far he can go before provoking some kind of reaction. First we had the genocide against the Uighurs, then the often violent unrest in Hong Kong, now (assuming my suspicions are right) installing a puppet junta in Myanmar. At some point you'd have to think the US must give some kind of response.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2021, 04:11:12 PM by Dave_Manchester »
"As democracy is perfected, the office of President represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their hearts' desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron" - H.L.Mencken, 26th July 1920.

"China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very very large brain" - American President Donald Trump, 26th September 2018.

Offline Dave_Manchester

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #2296 on: March 16, 2021, 04:05:55 PM »
At some point you'd have to think the US must give some kind of response.
Apologies for the slightly misleading information in the quoted part above, I see the US has already been rolling out the sanctions...

https://www.state.gov/promoting-accountability-and-responding-to-violence-against-protestors-in-burma/

I get so confused these days, ever since Jen Psaki said they're not going to sanction anyone of note in Saudi Arabia for chopping up Khashoggi because "we believe there are more effective ways to make sure that this doesnít happen again", I keep forgetting the eternal rule: if you buy a shitload of weapons off us, you won't be sanctioned no matter who you kill. If you don't then we'll have to "promote" some "accountability" round these here parts.

All the same I see nothing in those sanctions that will make any difference, it's the impotent Ukrainian sanctions all over again, a bunch of pompously-worded condemnations and punishments levied against military personnel and their relatives, none of whom will be the slightest bit affected by them. You don't rise to the level of "Commander-in-Chief of the Burmese Armed Forces" if you give 2 shits about having your "overseas assets" (14 dollars in unused Amazon gift vouchers) seized.   

So I'm still interested in the US response. That shit up there in the link ain't it.
"As democracy is perfected, the office of President represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their hearts' desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron" - H.L.Mencken, 26th July 1920.

"China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very very large brain" - American President Donald Trump, 26th September 2018.

Offline Dave_Manchester

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #2297 on: March 16, 2021, 05:07:40 PM »
But let's not worry about this story, because at the time of this posting, CNN has purged its front page of Myanmar stories and its #1 non-Covid story right now is the revelation that Russia "interfered" in the 2020 election in Trump's favour:

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/03/16/politics/us-election-intel-report/index.html

The same investigation discovered that large furry carnivoran mammals known as "bears" have been spotted shitting in the woods.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2021, 08:28:31 AM by Dave_Manchester »
"As democracy is perfected, the office of President represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their hearts' desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron" - H.L.Mencken, 26th July 1920.

"China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very very large brain" - American President Donald Trump, 26th September 2018.

Offline Stadler

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #2298 on: March 17, 2021, 07:50:22 AM »
But let's not worry about this story, because at the time of this posting, CNN has purged its front page of Myanmar stories and its #1 non-Covid story right now is the revelation that Russia "interfered" in the 2020 election in Trump's favour:

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/03/16/politics/us-election-intel-report/index.html

The same investigation discovered that large furry carnivoran mammals knows as "bears" have been spotted shitting in the woods.

I'm just quoting your post on the off-chance it increases the number of people who read it.  This is American politics/political awareness in a nutshell, right there.

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #2299 on: March 17, 2021, 09:41:55 AM »
I got a chance to read it now and...is the Pope a Catholic?

What's more important is that it's not only Russia, it's also Iran.

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Offline Stadler

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #2300 on: March 17, 2021, 10:08:11 AM »
I'm sort of at a loss as to why this is an issue.  One, they've been doing it for decades; over half a century.  So it's not new in that way.   Two, I think it sends a message of weakness and uncertainty.  Sure, they're all deplorable whackjobs, but for me, it's not a stretch to think "well, if the Russians can hack - metaphorically or actually - into our elections, why can't someone with a vested interest, with the weight of being "on the right side of history", and the insider knowledge, not also do the same?  Especially since, well, it didn't work all that well (at least on the simplistic goal; I think there's more to the meddling than simply installing one candidate over another).

I'm not suggesting that we keep secrets - though I'm not averse to that strategy - but if we are going to roll out that information, shouldn't it oughta be in a more measured way?  Maybe even in a past tense sort of way?  I think there's real insight into the oft-stated (and oft-misused) cliche "You can't HANDLE the truth" when assessing the U.S. public at large. 

Offline El Barto

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #2301 on: March 17, 2021, 10:48:08 AM »
I'm sort of at a loss as to why this is an issue.  One, they've been doing it for decades; over half a century.  So it's not new in that way.   Two, I think it sends a message of weakness and uncertainty.  Sure, they're all deplorable whackjobs, but for me, it's not a stretch to think "well, if the Russians can hack - metaphorically or actually - into our elections, why can't someone with a vested interest, with the weight of being "on the right side of history", and the insider knowledge, not also do the same?  Especially since, well, it didn't work all that well (at least on the simplistic goal; I think there's more to the meddling than simply installing one candidate over another).

I'm not suggesting that we keep secrets - though I'm not averse to that strategy - but if we are going to roll out that information, shouldn't it oughta be in a more measured way?  Maybe even in a past tense sort of way?  I think there's real insight into the oft-stated (and oft-misused) cliche "You can't HANDLE the truth" when assessing the U.S. public at large.
Beyond the simplistic "did our guy win" level it worked amazingly well. American democracy has been wrapped around a telephone pole. We don't trust each other. We don't trust the systems in place. We don't trust science. We are, to put it simply, completely dysfunctional. The Rooskies don't get to take all the credit for that, but they damn sure had a strong hand in exasperating our decline, and I think that was probably more important that installing Trump for a second term. He merely made their task easier.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #2302 on: March 17, 2021, 11:17:45 AM »
I'm sort of at a loss as to why this is an issue.  One, they've been doing it for decades; over half a century.  So it's not new in that way.   Two, I think it sends a message of weakness and uncertainty.  Sure, they're all deplorable whackjobs, but for me, it's not a stretch to think "well, if the Russians can hack - metaphorically or actually - into our elections, why can't someone with a vested interest, with the weight of being "on the right side of history", and the insider knowledge, not also do the same?  Especially since, well, it didn't work all that well (at least on the simplistic goal; I think there's more to the meddling than simply installing one candidate over another).

I'm not suggesting that we keep secrets - though I'm not averse to that strategy - but if we are going to roll out that information, shouldn't it oughta be in a more measured way?  Maybe even in a past tense sort of way?  I think there's real insight into the oft-stated (and oft-misused) cliche "You can't HANDLE the truth" when assessing the U.S. public at large.
Beyond the simplistic "did our guy win" level it worked amazingly well. American democracy has been wrapped around a telephone pole. We don't trust each other. We don't trust the systems in place. We don't trust science. We are, to put it simply, completely dysfunctional. The Rooskies don't get to take all the credit for that, but they damn sure had a strong hand in exasperating our decline, and I think that was probably more important that installing Trump for a second term. He merely made their task easier.

Well, exactly; the divisiveness is probably our number one problem now, at least in terms of moving forward. I mean, the trust of the "systems" and "science" seems to imply something that I'm not all bought in on (that it's one "side's" fault), but still.  It's frustrating, though, since while I don't expect some people to know better, others I do and yet they've played right into the nonsense.  In this context, those that lost in 2016 (and to a lesser extent 2020) and who "blamed Russia" are complicit in the degradation of trust.

Offline Dave_Manchester

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #2303 on: March 23, 2021, 06:44:17 AM »
Perusing the day's headlines from across the globe I decided to leave my thoughts on some stories that I feel will be pushed out of the news cycle within the next day or two:


"Burger King's new Double Stacker named the best-selling burger of 2020" - a worthy winner, it's probably my personal favourite right now.


"England's young tennis players still not breaking through at international level" - and is anyone honestly surprised? The government has been slashing funding for sports year on year since David Cameron was Prime Minister.


"Italian girl reunited with stuffed bunny she lost on holiday 5 years ago" - apparently it had been in the lost and found of the hotel they were staying in!


"Man in America kills 10 people with an AR-15 semi-automatic rifle" - this is a very tragic story I send my thoughts and prayers something has to be done we need to have a national conversation about this very serious issue 


"Scientists in Belgium have discovered a new species of male bullfrog which turns a Day-Glo yellow during the mating season" - frogs creep me out a little but this is a still a really cool find.   


'Piddler on the Roof! Drunken yob caught urinating off the top of a multi-story car park" - Yet another indictment of Britain's loutish drinking culture. 



I'll post others as they come in throughout the day.
"As democracy is perfected, the office of President represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their hearts' desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron" - H.L.Mencken, 26th July 1920.

"China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very very large brain" - American President Donald Trump, 26th September 2018.

Offline jingle.boy

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #2304 on: March 23, 2021, 06:57:39 AM »
Right??  Water off a duck's back - for Americans, and the rest of the world watching.  Nary even a mention in Guns are Icky thread.  Sadly, it didn't even phase me, cuz I know it's just another headline moment that will be a flash in the pan for calls of gun-reform, and an event that will fade into oblivion like every other one, and only those directly impacted will remember it in 6 months (weeks?) or so.
Fox = drip-feeding dumb people with rage-porn. CNN = drip-feeding smug assholes with moral reassurance.
I'll do my best, but this? The guy's getting Llamathrust.
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Offline Dave_Manchester

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #2305 on: March 23, 2021, 07:08:55 AM »
We've reached the point where we have to put a year after the name of the state when identifying which particular mass shooting we're referring to, I reckon we're just a few more away from having to adopt the hurricane method (Mass Shooting Annabelle, Mass Shooting Bethany, Mass Shooting Cassandra...). But yeah it's not just here; at other forums I've checked this morning the designated gun/shooting threads don't even get bumped anymore, I think when that Vegas guy high-scored at 60 it kind of jaded most of us.
"As democracy is perfected, the office of President represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their hearts' desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron" - H.L.Mencken, 26th July 1920.

"China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very very large brain" - American President Donald Trump, 26th September 2018.

Offline jingle.boy

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #2306 on: March 23, 2021, 07:19:03 AM »
I think when that Vegas guy high-scored at 60 it kind of jaded most of us.

Personally, it was Sandy Hook that jaded me.  If nothing would/could be done after that, I was resigned to the fact that nothing would ever happen in my lifetime to prevent these kinds of events.  I mean, how could there possibly be anything worse than that??  It the slaughter of dozens of 6 and 7-year olds isn't something that can spur a nation and gov't to take action, I don't know what would.
Fox = drip-feeding dumb people with rage-porn. CNN = drip-feeding smug assholes with moral reassurance.
I'll do my best, but this? The guy's getting Llamathrust.
Happy is the dog that stops and licks his balls.

Offline TAC

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #2307 on: March 23, 2021, 07:23:23 AM »
I think when that Vegas guy high-scored at 60 it kind of jaded most of us.

Personally, it was Sandy Hook that jaded me.  If nothing would/could be done after that, I was resigned to the fact that nothing would ever happen in my lifetime to prevent these kinds of events.  I mean, how could there possibly be anything worse than that??  It the slaughter of dozens of 6 and 7-year olds isn't something that can spur a nation and gov't to take action, I don't know what would.

Sandy Hook sickened me too. BUT, wasn't that gun legally owned? It was the kid's mother's right? Which she kept locked up, right, or am I misremembering?
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline Chino

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #2308 on: March 23, 2021, 07:32:27 AM »
Right??  Water off a duck's back - for Americans, and the rest of the world watching.  Nary even a mention in Guns are Icky thread.  Sadly, it didn't even phase me, cuz I know it's just another headline moment that will be a flash in the pan for calls of gun-reform, and an event that will fade into oblivion like every other one, and only those directly impacted will remember it in 6 months (weeks?) or so.

I actually started typing out a whole thing and then decided to delete it. In a nutshell it was going to be something like: 
 
- Well, that's two decent shootings in the last week. Guess things are getting back to normal.
- I'm afraid we're going to see a lot of these in the coming months (more than usual).
- Incidents like this are why I no longer question why people like Gary want to be armed at all times

Offline Dave_Manchester

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Re: P/R side chat thread, v. I am not a number I am a free man
« Reply #2309 on: March 23, 2021, 07:35:22 AM »
It the slaughter of dozens of 6 and 7-year olds isn't something that can spur a nation and gov't to take action, I don't know what would.
To be fair some politicians have been springing into swift action. 2 hours after the shooting Lauren Boebert sent out a "campaign" (read: fund-raising) e-mail warning her followers that radical leftist Joe Biden is going to take their guns. If I were a betting man I'd lay every penny I own on Lauren Boebert to end the week with the highest fund-raising figures of any congressperson. Either her or whichever Democrat goes the other way and fund-raises off of a vow to ban guns. If you try to imagine it as fiction rather than reality it changes from a miserable tragedy to a fascinating comedy.
"As democracy is perfected, the office of President represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their hearts' desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron" - H.L.Mencken, 26th July 1920.

"China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very very large brain" - American President Donald Trump, 26th September 2018.