Should Joe Paterno's statue be taken down at Penn State?

[KevShmev]

A simple yes/no question.

To me, the obvious answer is yes.

[CrimsonSunrise]

I choose to give him the benefit of the doubt, that he really didn't grasp what was going on and mis interpeted the situation.

[Sigz]

I really don't care one way or the other. I don't see why being a football coach justifies having a statue on a university campus in the first place, but even if the guy was decapitating cancer kids every tuesday night I don't see how that affects the (ridiculous) reason he was given a statue in the first place.

[Orbert]

It's a yes/no question, but it's far from simple.  To me, this is similar to the question of whether or not Pete Rose should still be in the MLB Hall of Fame.  If something is meant to honor someone's accomplishments, those accomplishments are not affected by later events or revelations.  But if it's meant to honor the person, and that person has been disgraced, then that's a different matter.

Joe Paterno, to many, was the Penn State football program.  They were an amazing, well-oiled machine for many years, and that was all his doing.  People are saying that he did this while turning a blind eye to crimes happening right under his nose, and that somehow invalidates his accomplishments as a coach.  No.  But if Joe the person is no longer the man they wish to honor with the statue, then they should take it down.

[rumborak]

I was so far blissfully ignorant what exactly went down in that Sandusky thing, but after reading about it yesterday I wish I hadn't. Ugh. Anally raping 10-year olds?!

I'm also not in the least surprised the people surrounding him covered it up. Happens all the time, that people put the "bigger picture" above individuals' concerns. Of course doesn't make it better, and I would agree that the statue should be taken down if it's proven Paterno turned a blind eye to it.

rumborak

[KevShmev]

I choose to give him the benefit of the doubt, that he really didn't grasp what was going on and mis interpeted the situation.

In light of the Freeh investigation, that argument no longer holds any water, sadly.

[cramx3]

I'm a PSU alum and have admired Joel's all these years.. it should come down. I don't think they should destroy it though, I think it deserves a place somewhere else where they can add something to it to remember the victims and make a note for the current and future students to learn from the mistakes that were made. Maybe put it in the library (named after paterno). The guy did so much good and I am not ready to throw away everything good. He certainly isn't a saint, but he also isn't the devil that the media is making him .. he is somewhere in between as is every human.human

[El Barto]

Not up to date on the Freeh report, but my original stance was to give them the benefit of the doubt given the gravity of such allegations.  The merest suggestion that he was doing that will destroy somebody's life overnight, and without rock solid proof, I wouldn't be very quick to do that.

That said, I'm with Sigz 100% on this.  Who gives a fuck about Joe Paterno anyway? 

[chrisbDTM]

my school (uconn) has a statue of a husky, so i guess its the same kinda deal, just using a real person as the face of the sports team. but still, you coached a college football team. cool story bro

[senecadawg2]

That said, I'm with Sigz 100% on this.  Who gives a fuck about Joe Paterno anyway?

+1

[hefdaddy42]

It should come down.

[Tick]

Its a shame he tarnished 61 years, but yes, it needs to be removed. It sends a bad message.

[bosk1]

Not up to date on the Freeh report, but my original stance was to give them the benefit of the doubt given the gravity of such allegations.  The merest suggestion that he was doing that will destroy somebody's life overnight, and without rock solid proof, I wouldn't be very quick to do that. 

From what I understand, there are HUNDREDS of emails going way, way back that show that Paterno and others clearly knew what was going on, in graphic detail, but repeatedly chose over the course of many years to "deal with it in-house" instead of going to the authorities.  I understand the impulse, and for a lot of things, handling discipline and other issues behind closed doors is actually admirable (assuming the problem is actually dealt with and not just swept under the rug).  But child rape and other serious crimes that have a devastating impact on the victims is not one of those things.

[Dimitrius]

He help hide (or cover) Sandusky's doings for more than a decade... it deserves to come down.

[ReaPsTA]

Yes.  And there's no real reason not to.

[cramx3]

Not up to date on the Freeh report, but my original stance was to give them the benefit of the doubt given the gravity of such allegations.  The merest suggestion that he was doing that will destroy somebody's life overnight, and without rock solid proof, I wouldn't be very quick to do that. 

From what I understand, there are HUNDREDS of emails going way, way back that show that Paterno and others clearly knew what was going on, in graphic detail, but repeatedly chose over the course of many years to "deal with it in-house" instead of going to the authorities.  I understand the impulse, and for a lot of things, handling discipline and other issues behind closed doors is actually admirable (assuming the problem is actually dealt with and not just swept under the rug).  But child rape and other serious crimes that have a devastating impact on the victims is not one of those things.

Where do the cone from? I read the entire freeh report and i only know of three emails that reference paterno and none say what he knew. I'm not defending him, just wish people stated facts. Paterno also didn't use email so its very hard to know what exactly he knew since as far as we know, there is no written documentation on it. The emails we do have, do show that he was informed about the 98 incident and that he talked too curley about how act on J'S interest 2001 incident.

[Jaq]

He covered up the activities of a serial child rapist for years.

Shooting the statue with a rocket launcher is a good start for the level of contempt I have for the man.

[El Barto]

Not up to date on the Freeh report, but my original stance was to give them the benefit of the doubt given the gravity of such allegations.  The merest suggestion that he was doing that will destroy somebody's life overnight, and without rock solid proof, I wouldn't be very quick to do that. 

From what I understand, there are HUNDREDS of emails going way, way back that show that Paterno and others clearly knew what was going on, in graphic detail, but repeatedly chose over the course of many years to "deal with it in-house" instead of going to the authorities.  I understand the impulse, and for a lot of things, handling discipline and other issues behind closed doors is actually admirable (assuming the problem is actually dealt with and not just swept under the rug).  But child rape and other serious crimes that have a devastating impact on the victims is not one of those things.

I think "clearly knew" is the key here.  If he knew for a fact that it was happening, then he had a responsibility to get involved and I'll count myself solidly on the "string him up" bandwagon.  I'm merely saying that my threshold for certainty which would lead me to involve LEA pretty much involves walking in on the act and seeing clearly what's going on, which is  certainly well beyond the point that would prompt to be beat his worthless ass senseless.  Allegations, rumors, uncorroborated stories from asst coaches won't be enough for me to drop a dime.

That said, a history of allegations, rumors and uncorroborated stories would certainly be enough for me to nudge him into early retirement. 

[CrimsonSunrise]

I choose to give him the benefit of the doubt, that he really didn't grasp what was going on and mis interpeted the situation.

In light of the Freeh investigation, that argument no longer holds any water, sadly.

I've been kinda searching around, yet I haven't seen anything that says He absolutely KNEW what was going on, can you or someone else show me?

[cramx3]

I choose to give him the benefit of the doubt, that he really didn't grasp what was going on and mis interpeted the situation.

In light of the Freeh investigation, that argument no longer holds any water, sadly.

I've been kinda searching around, yet I haven't seen anything that says He absolutely KNEW what was going on, can you or someone else show me?

There is no evidence he knew exactly what happened, but there is enough evidence in Mike McQueery's testimony and the few emails that are in the freeh report to know that he knew something. Exactly what is only known by him and I believe Curley. Hopefully we learn more during curley and schultz's trials.

[KevShmev]

On second thought, leave the statue up, but just have him looking the other way.

[bosk1]

[kirksnosehair]

I choose to give him the benefit of the doubt, that he really didn't grasp what was going on and mis interpeted the situation.

In light of the Freeh investigation, that argument no longer holds any water, sadly.

I've been kinda searching around, yet I haven't seen anything that says He absolutely KNEW what was going on, can you or someone else show me?

Evidence that he absolutely KNEW?  Probably doesn't exist, especially now that he's dead and a lot of people have worked very hard to cover up what happened.


But.....

Legendary head football coach Joe Paterno also could have stopped the attacks had he done more, Freeh concluded.


"Our most saddening and sobering finding is the total disregard for the safety and welfare of Sandusky's child victims by the most senior leaders at Penn State," Freeh wrote. "The most powerful men at Penn State failed to take any steps for 14 years to protect the children who Sandusky victimized."


He blamed Paterno, former Penn State President Graham Spanier and administrators Gary Schultz and Tim Curley for having "never demonstrated ... any concern for the safety and well-being of Sandusky's victims until after Sandusky's arrest," while the board of trustees failed to perform its oversight duties.

As far as I'm concerned, the school is basically saying "go fuck yourself" to Sandusky's victims by leaving the statue up.   Great men get statues in their honor.  Great men don't look the other way while someone they work closely with every day ass rapes little boys.


If it was 14 weeks or even 14 months, it might be believable, but 14 years?   

[wkiml]

Interesting conversation came up this morning ...Sandusky was know as a defense genius if that was the case why was he never offered another position at another school after leaving Penn State's ranks , people on some of the "sports talk" stations were implying that this goes beyond Penn State and that people within the actual NCAA knew of Sandusky's sins, and quickly put any chance of him "coaching" at another school to bed

[cramx3]

Interesting conversation came up this morning ...Sandusky was know as a defense genius if that was the case why was he never offered another position at another school after leaving Penn State's ranks , people on some of the "sports talk" stations were implying that this goes beyond Penn State and that people within the actual NCAA knew of Sandusky's sins, and quickly put any chance of him "coaching" at another school to bed

Read the freeh report .... he was notified before the 98 incident by paterno that he would not be head coach. Curley offered human assistant athletic director position which he declined. The freeh report also states no evidence was found that he left coaching because he was a pedophile. He was paid out a large sum of money and received a great compensation package that was offered to 30 year state employees who retired early. I'm not trying to defend anyone, just getting the facts out there.

[Scorpion]

Hmm... this is a difficult topic for me, with me not really being that familiar with what went down there, but after reading some stuff about it online, I'm inclined to agree with the people that the statue should be taken down. Even if it is meant to honour his achievements as a coach, such statues always not only come across as paying respect to his achievements, but also to the man himself, even if that is not the intention (to me, at least), so I think that this statue cannot, in good conscience, be left standing.

Side note: I really don't want to play mod or anything, but shouldn't this be moved to P/R?

[masterthes]

I agree with Orbert. It depends what they're honoring

[DeanTheater]

He covered up the activities of a serial child rapist for years.

Shooting the statue with a rocket launcher is a good start for the level of contempt I have for the man.

While in the midst of a Halo jump.  agreed.

[ReaPsTA]

Two questions:

 - What did we learn from this report that we didn't already know?  We knew from the beginning that McQueary told Paterno about Sandusky's shower adventure and Paterno buried the story.  That alone is pretty awful.

 - Why does anyone think the Football team should be punished?  What did they do?  Why are they responsible?  The people responsible are already gone, right?  What is punishing the team other than a show of wrath?

[King Postwhore]

Two questions:


 - Why does anyone think the Football team should be punished?  What did they do?  Why are they responsible?  The people responsible are already gone, right?  What is punishing the team other than a show of wrath?

You are an employee there.  Teacher, coach, administrator.  It doesn't matter.  The employees of that school had knowledge and did noting and the school deserves everything and anything.

[ReaPsTA]

Two questions:


 - Why does anyone think the Football team should be punished?  What did they do?  Why are they responsible?  The people responsible are already gone, right?  What is punishing the team other than a show of wrath?

You are an employee there.  Teacher, coach, administrator.  It doesn't matter.  The employees of that school had knowledge and did noting and the school deserves everything and anything.

How many employees knew?

And I don't understand now why it's the school's fault.  The school is a bunch of buildings and such.  The people who represent the school, the trustees, didn't know anything.

[King Postwhore]

ReaP, here's a list.

Freeh's report identifies the enablers: Paterno, president Graham Spanier, vice president Gary Schultz and athletic director Tim Curley. And it strips away any excuses.

That's as big as it gets for the Penn State.  They deserve it all.

[ReaPsTA]

ReaP, here's a list.

Freeh's report identifies the enablers: Paterno, president Graham Spanier, vice president Gary Schultz and athletic director Tim Curley. And it strips away any excuses.

That's as big as it gets for the Penn State.  They deserve it all.

None of those people are part of the school anymore, right?  Spanier, Schultz, and Curley will face criminal charges, no?

I'm not getting it.  These are the people responsible.  The football team is not.  You punish the people responsible.

You could say these people were acting in the capacity of the football team.  But I don't think recruiting violations can really be treated the same as Child Rape.

[King Postwhore]

ReaP.  Just because they don't work for the school anymore doesn't mean you shouldn't punish the school.  Hell if it didn't come out they would still be working there.

Plain and simple the school hired these people and these people had knowledge of these heinous crimes and justice should be served.  Also, all the kids raped will have a chance to go after these people in court.

[cramx3]

The school will pay in millions of dollars in civil suits, fired all involved, and has thoroughly been embarrassed so why do you punish the current team/students/alumni/fans for something that was not even an NCAA violation?