The Systematic Chaos Appreciation (and explanation of disappreciation) Thread

[TAC]

ITPOE is one of the best songs they've ever written, so to that extent I am grateful for SC. However, I don't go to that album for much else.

Such an underrated gem. Maybe if they released it as one track only (it is one song after all) people would appreciate it more.

The live version is great. I love the part where it's just MP for a couple of bars in the middle.

[UndercoverMyung]

ITPOE and TMOLS are amazing. POW is awesome and way underrated.

[Architeuthis]

I've been learning a few guitar parts from this album and it really gives me a whole new respect for it.  It makes me realize the complexity even more and all the hard work they put into creating this beast! 

[gzarruk]

I've been learning a few guitar parts from this album and it really gives me a whole new respect for it.  It makes me realize the complexity even more and all the hard work they put into creating this beast! 

Yeah, JP is definitely one of the highlights of the album for sure

[hefdaddy42]

Systematic Chaos holds a special place in my heart because it was the first Dream Theater album that was released after I became a fan.

Not as seasoned as I had previously believed.

[svisser]

Systematic Chaos holds a special place in my heart because it was the first Dream Theater album that was released after I became a fan. I think it has some great songs but as an overall album is one of their weakest. On your typical tier list (S, A, B, C, D, F) I'd probably slot it under "C" in terms of Dream Theater albums.

I know the feeling. It was the same for me. I became a fan hearing Budokan and TOT, then seeing Octavarium at Future Shop and hearing that. I still remember hearing Constant Motion and thinking it was one of the most unique songs I had ever heard. And I can admit there are much better DT album, this one just seems special to me. Lots of fun.

[darkshade]

Systematic Chaos holds a special place in my heart because it was the first Dream Theater album that was released after I became a fan. I think it has some great songs but as an overall album is one of their weakest. On your typical tier list (S, A, B, C, D, F) I'd probably slot it under "C" in terms of Dream Theater albums.

I know the feeling. It was the same for me. I became a fan hearing Budokan and TOT, then seeing Octavarium at Future Shop and hearing that. I still remember hearing Constant Motion and thinking it was one of the most unique songs I had ever heard. And I can admit there are much better DT album, this one just seems special to me. Lots of fun.

I first heard Constant Motion on the radio of all places, before SC was released, and my initial thought was "ugh why are they ripping off Metallica?"

[JediKnight1969]

This record passed the test of time. Not perfect but with great moments. My current playlist:

1- The Ministry of Lost Souls
2- In the Presence of Enemies Pt. 2
3- Constant Motion
4- In the Presence of Enemies Pt. 1
5- Forsaken
6- Prophets of War
7- The Dark Eternal Night
8- Repentance

[jasc15]

This was the beginning of the end of my album-by-album following of DT.  What follows is my personal opinion, maybe not so logically consistent or well supported by examples.

Lyrics feel more like story outlines than actual stories.  What I mean is that they feel too literal, and not set to prose or poetry for use with the music.  When metaphor is used, it seems very forced and gratuitous (Out of an ivory mist/ I felt a stinging kiss/ And saw a crimson stain on her lips).  I remember thinking "crimson would be used to describe something that's like blood, not actual blood."  Compare to "Liquid shadows crawl/ Silver teardrops fall/ The bride subsides to her survival".  I have no idea what that means, but it sounds beautiful.  Or, "As far as I could tell, there's nothing more I need/ But still I ask myself, could this be everything?"  Much more direct than metaphorical, but still poetic.  Maybe it's all the same, and I'm just displaying a nostalgia bias for their older stuff, but I was eagerly anticipating and enjoying all their new output from SFAM to 8VM.  Something just happened to me with this and their subsequent albums.

I feel similarly about the music and production/sound, but I'm a bit trapped in my head about that, and can't really explain what I'm thinking.

I've spot checked their post Octavarium albums here and there over the years as they were released, but this week I'm making a deliberate effort to listen to them front to back.  I'm up to A Dramatic Turn of Events, and so far nothing has really made me want to go back and listen again.  I'm eager to listen to The Astonishing, however.

[Wim Kruithof]

Maybe it's all the same, and I'm just displaying a nostalgia bias for their older stuff, but I was eagerly anticipating and enjoying all their new output from SFAM to 8VM.  Something just happened to me with this and their subsequent albums.

I feel similarly about the music and production/sound, but I'm a bit trapped in my head about that, and can't really explain what I'm thinking.

Too bad for you the new albums doesn't come near to their pre-Systematic Chaos releases. I think I follow what you're saying, especially when a man grew up with the 'classics'. When I found out about Dream Theater, I had suddenly sixteen studio albums at the same time to dig into. And although I listen basicly to nothing other then Dream Theater, there's still so much left to discover.

I'm eager to listen to The Astonishing, however.

I really hope you enjoy the storyline. When you do, it's a masterpiece. I'm reading the novell (again) and still the whole spectrum grabs a hold on me.

[jasc15]

I'm eager to listen to The Astonishing, however.

I really hope you enjoy the storyline. When you do, it's a masterpiece. I'm reading the novell (again) and still the whole spectrum grabs a hold on me.

I see a book by Peter Orullian promoted on their website, but it still looks like its in pre-order after ~5 years.  What happened?  Is this what you are re-reading?  Maybe I'll read the lyrics while I listen.

[jammindude]

I'm eager to listen to The Astonishing, however.

I really hope you enjoy the storyline. When you do, it's a masterpiece. I'm reading the novell (again) and still the whole spectrum grabs a hold on me.

I see a book by Peter Orullian promoted on their website, but it still looks like its in pre-order after ~5 years.  What happened?  Is this what you are re-reading?  Maybe I'll read the lyrics while I listen.

I got my signed copy ages ago. Not sure why anyone would still have it on preorder.

[jasc15]

It's almost as if I'm listening to a Spinal Tap album.

In fact, that's the feel I get from almost this whole album.   Like I'm listening to a Spinal Tap album...only they didn't do that level of hokey on purpose for a joke, so it's not really funny.  (though parts of PoW are so horrible they make me LOL)

. Yes, but ouch.

[jammindude]

It's almost as if I'm listening to a Spinal Tap album.

In fact, that's the feel I get from almost this whole album.   Like I'm listening to a Spinal Tap album...only they didn't do that level of hokey on purpose for a joke, so it's not really funny.  (though parts of PoW are so horrible they make me LOL)

. Yes, but ouch.

Wow! A few more weeks and you would’ve caught me on the 7th anniversary of that comment! 

[jasc15]

. Yes, but ouch.

Wow! A few more weeks and you would’ve caught me on the 7th anniversary of that comment! 

lol. I'm making my way through this thread and chortled a bit when I read that post.

[Wim Kruithof]

I see a book by Peter Orullian promoted on their website, but it still looks like its in pre-order after ~5 years.  What happened?  Is this what you are re-reading?  Maybe I'll read the lyrics while I listen.

I got both the paperback and hardcover version and they're easily to get. Often for sale.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

I think the album has one very strong tune: ITPOE Pt. 1. I think this is a DT classic, though I do not love the lyrics.

However, the rest of the album is mixed at best. SC has a lot of filler. Why is Repentance 10+ minutes for example? That should be no longer than 2-3. Other tracks have different issues for me. The lyrics were overall very weak and there just were not enough high points. I won't beat the dead horse on the Dark Eternal Night.

Where does the album rank? Well, to me, DT's career had an extended low point and SC is probably at the very bottom, sandwiched in between Octavarium and Black Clouds. The band floundered in musical obscurity in this period, showcasing different contemporary influences in some songs but ultimately writing little compelling music in their signature style ( I am not saying there was none). I consider those 2 adjacent albums very weak though slightly better than SC. But again, SC does have a big hit. It's an album that deserves some modest credit.

[Stadler]

I think the album has one very strong tune: ITPOE Pt. 1. I think this is a DT classic, though I do not love the lyrics.

However, the rest of the album is mixed at best. SC has a lot of filler. Why is Repentance 10+ minutes for example? That should be no longer than 2-3. Other tracks have different issues for me. The lyrics were overall very weak and there just were not enough high points. I won't beat the dead horse on the Dark Eternal Night.

Where does the album rank? Well, to me, DT's career had an extended low point and SC is probably at the very bottom, sandwiched in between Octavarium and Black Clouds. The band floundered in musical obscurity in this period, showcasing different contemporary influences in some songs but ultimately writing little compelling music in their signature style ( I am not saying there was none). I consider those 2 adjacent albums very weak though slightly better than SC. But again, SC does have a big hit. It's an album that deserves some modest credit.

Octavarium is one of my top three, or top five (since there are so many) favorite DT records.   

[jammindude]

I think the album has one very strong tune: ITPOE Pt. 1. I think this is a DT classic, though I do not love the lyrics.

However, the rest of the album is mixed at best. SC has a lot of filler. Why is Repentance 10+ minutes for example? That should be no longer than 2-3. Other tracks have different issues for me. The lyrics were overall very weak and there just were not enough high points. I won't beat the dead horse on the Dark Eternal Night.

Where does the album rank? Well, to me, DT's career had an extended low point and SC is probably at the very bottom, sandwiched in between Octavarium and Black Clouds. The band floundered in musical obscurity in this period, showcasing different contemporary influences in some songs but ultimately writing little compelling music in their signature style ( I am not saying there was none). I consider those 2 adjacent albums very weak though slightly better than SC. But again, SC does have a big hit. It's an album that deserves some modest credit.

Octavarium is one of my top three, or top five (since there are so many) favorite DT records.   

Octavarium is my #1 all time and I’m a fan since 92

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Lot's of people don't get the love for it. I think the title track is good, but too bloated and a bit overrated. Aside from that, Panic Attack and Root have cool riffage. It's a better album than Systematic Chaos, IMO, I just think it marks a steep drop off from the 3 albums that preceded it. SC is the bottom of the drop but the thing is none of those albums is devoid of good songs.

[DoctorAction]

SC is at the bottom of the DT pile with BCASL and TOT for me. The only great song from those three albums is The Count of Tuscany, afaic, (and that's goofy AF too) but I did used to enjoy ITPOE a fair bit. I may have to revisit that track.