Poll

Your rating of SC...

One of DT's best
30 (8%)
A strong album
125 (33.3%)
Average
119 (31.7%)
Pretty bad, but has some good points
83 (22.1%)
Terrible
18 (4.8%)

Total Members Voted: 367

Author Topic: The Systematic Chaos Appreciation (and explanation of disappreciation) Thread  (Read 34716 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Indiscipline

  • Ponce
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 2998
  • Gender: Male
  • Apply IMO --->
Probably better suited for the controversial opinion thread, but Repentance is my favourite (i.e. I actually like it) song in the whole 12 steps Voltron.

It sounds great, has the most effective lyrics and emotional connection in the suite, everything TAC said above, plus shades of '69-'70 King Crimson in pace and orchestration.

Offline hefdaddy42

  • Back for the Attack
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 42204
  • Gender: Male
  • Postwhore Emeritus
I like Repentance, but I would like it better if both the intro and outro were shorter.

Not talking about any of the spoken word stuff, that's all good.  But the song is still just a little too long.
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline pg1067

  • Posts: 5477
  • Gender: Male
Probably better suited for the controversial opinion thread, but Repentance is my favourite (i.e. I actually like it) song in the whole 12 steps Voltron.

 :lol :lol
"There's a bass solo in a song called Metropolis where I do a bass solo."  John Myung

Offline Scottjf8

  • Posts: 151
Now i'm listening to S.C. since this thread got bumped.

Foresaken still sucks.

And I'm sure Prophets of War will also. 

But ...  ITPOE and Ministry of Lost Souls are amazing.

Offline gzarruk

  • Posts: 3241
  • Gender: Male
I still love SC more than most people here. It's a very diverse album, with heavy, prog, melodic and everything in between.

And THAT riff on ITPOE pt. 2 that starts around 6:30 is one of the heaviest, most amazing riffs they've ever done :metal :metal :metal
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline Northern Lion

  • Defender of Liberty
  • Posts: 756
  • Gender: Male
Now i'm listening to S.C. since this thread got bumped.

Foresaken still sucks.

And I'm sure Prophets of War will also.
 

But ...  ITPOE and Ministry of Lost Souls are amazing.

I have died from the daggers of your blasphemous words!

Sorry for being way overdramatic.  Your feelings on those songs are common around here.  I just happen to really like both of them.
"You call it facial hair, I call it awesomeness escaping through my face"

Offline Dublagent66

  • I was once an Analog Kid...
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 8146
  • Gender: Male
  • ...Now I'm a Digital Man
Now i'm listening to S.C. since this thread got bumped.

Foresaken still sucks.

And I'm sure Prophets of War will also. 

But ...  ITPOE and Ministry of Lost Souls are amazing.

Well, you almost nailed it except for Forsaken which I'll admit isn't one of their greatest songs, but it's still pretty far from "sucks".  Having said that, PoW is near bottom of the barrel for me, but I would still be reluctant to say it sucks.  However, I can see how others think it sucks.
"We've got nothing to fear but fear itself, not pain, not failure, not fatal tragedy...and the things that we fear are a weapon to be held against us."

Offline TAC

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 45859
  • Gender: Male
  • Head Judge of the Peanut Gallery
I love PoW.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums................or WTF.  ;D

Offline wolfking

  • Posts: 32797
  • Gender: Male
I never really liked this album that much.  First DT album I remember being disappointed with.  Ministry and TDEN are great however.  The rest is kind of meh for me.

Offline 54_diplomats

  • Posts: 325
  • Gender: Male
Systematic Chaos was definitely towards the lower end of my album rankings but I guess has risen a bit over the years (due to new albums being released). I used to only listen to ITPOE but over the years I've grown to like some of the other songs.

ITPOE: I love Part 1, it's one of my favorite songs. Part 2 is mostly great, unfortunately The Reckoning kinda ruins it a little for me, I just find it boring and drawn out. Love everything else about the song. Also don't really mind how it's split in the album.

Forsaken: It's ok. I used to not like the song at all but its grown on me a little.

Constant Motion: The only redeeming part of this song is Portnoys drumming around the 4 minute mark or so. I hate the song otherwise, one of the few DT songs I just flat out don't listen to.

The Dark Eternal Night: I've always thought this song was really fun.

Repentance: Don't care for it.

Prophets of War: Mediocre. I get in some rare moods sometimes where I enjoy listening to it though.

The Ministry of Lost Souls: I enjoy this song a lot but I think it'd be better if it was a little shorter.



Offline Cool Chris

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 9776
  • Gender: Male
  • Inglourious Basstard
Gave this album a listen on my long drive in the work van today. Enjoyed as much as I usually do.

ITPOE: Great song, love the way it is split on the album.

Forsaken: Good song, solid #2 song

Constant Motion: One of my least favorite DT songs. Nothing I like about it.

The Dark Eternal Night: Another one of my least favorite DT songs. Nothing I like about it.

Repentance: Really enjoy the first half of this song. Once the spoken word parts start, I lose interest. Such potential. Mike did such a fantastic job writing lyrics to coincide with the 12 steps I wish he could have done the same for Step 9 instead of doing what they did. And I hate the weird vocal effects on the 12 Promises.

Prophets of War: Cool song. Am glad the wrote a song like this. Am likewise glad they only wrote one song like this. Again, annoying vocal effects on the "I see you sweat..." part. So dumb.

The Ministry of Lost Souls: Great song.

ITPOE 2: The first section of Pt2 is one of my favorite things DT has ever done. James aces this part. The instrumental is longer than it needs to be, but I am not bothered by it as much as many others.
"Nostalgia is just the ability to forget the things that sucked" - Nelson DeMille, 'Up Country'

Offline hefdaddy42

  • Back for the Attack
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 42204
  • Gender: Male
  • Postwhore Emeritus
Prophets of War is pretty bad.
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline Ben_Jamin

  • Posts: 10809
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm just a man, thrown into existence by the gods
Gave this album a listen on my long drive in the work van today. Enjoyed as much as I usually do.

ITPOE: Great song, love the way it is split on the album.

Forsaken: Good song, solid #2 song

Constant Motion: One of my least favorite DT songs. Nothing I like about it.

The Dark Eternal Night: Another one of my least favorite DT songs. Nothing I like about it.

Repentance: Really enjoy the first half of this song. Once the spoken word parts start, I lose interest. Such potential. Mike did such a fantastic job writing lyrics to coincide with the 12 steps I wish he could have done the same for Step 9 instead of doing what they did. And I hate the weird vocal effects on the 12 Promises.

Prophets of War: Cool song. Am glad the wrote a song like this. Am likewise glad they only wrote one song like this. Again, annoying vocal effects on the "I see you sweat..." part. So dumb.

The Ministry of Lost Souls: Great song.

ITPOE 2: The first section of Pt2 is one of my favorite things DT has ever done. James aces this part. The instrumental is longer than it needs to be, but I am not bothered by it as much as many others.

What he did with step 9 is about the best thing you can do regarding that step. It's about amends and asking for forgiveness and he had other musicians come in and say their regrets.

The song could've been cut after someone says "It still haunts me." A measure of those ahhs then end with "The Truth is the Truth."

I do like the sounds in the background during Step 9. Those little vocoder "Ows" and soundscapes.
I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man

"We can't rewrite history. We can learn our own history, and share it with other people. While, we learn, from them, their history." -Me,Myself,I

Offline Northern Lion

  • Defender of Liberty
  • Posts: 756
  • Gender: Male
Prophets of War is pretty bad.

Hef, I know that a lot of folks feel the same way you do about PoW.  However, I just don't see any reason to not like it so much.  What is it about the song that you don't like?  I'm genuinely curious.
"You call it facial hair, I call it awesomeness escaping through my face"

Offline hefdaddy42

  • Back for the Attack
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 42204
  • Gender: Male
  • Postwhore Emeritus
Prophets of War is pretty bad.

Hef, I know that a lot of folks feel the same way you do about PoW.  However, I just don't see any reason to not like it so much.  What is it about the song that you don't like?  I'm genuinely curious.
I'm not putting you off or anything, but I haven't listened to it in a LONG time, and I don't feel like listening to it again just so I can analyze why I don't like it.

Some things that stand out from memory are the chessy Queen-like backing vocals.  I know that MP thought they were neat, but they are just cheesy and cringe-inducing.

Also the disco feel of that whole section.

Also, the double entendre in the title is just poor, poor writing.  Something I would expect from an amateur band, not seasoned professionals.

And a lot of other things.

One thing that I do like, musically, is when it breaks down to just an acoustic guitar, with James singing softly over it.  Pity that couldn't have been done in a better song.
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline SystematicThought

  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4939
  • Gender: Male
  • Carpe Diem-2020
The Dark Eternal Night came up on my playlist driving home from work today. Maybe itís a dumb question, but is MP the main vocal in the verses with JLB providing background vocals or are they both singing lead?
God have mercy on a man
Who doubts what he's sure of.
-Bruce Springsteen

Offline Progmetty

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 7036
  • Gender: Male
Nope, it's a super dry JLB with back vocals from MP :D
I wouldn't want somebody with 18 kids to mow my damn lawn, based on a longstanding bias I have against crazy fucks.

Offline Volante99

  • Posts: 649
Constant Motion is really the only song I ever revisit here. The chorus is a bit on the weaker side but itís a good straight headbanger with DT channeling their inner Metallica. I even like the JLB/Portnoy vocal 1-2 punch. It works for me here. Petrucci sounds great with an awesome solo and Portnoy is on fire. I love JR as much as the next guy but the song would probably be better if he had just sat this one out.

Offline Dream Team

  • Posts: 3741
  • Gender: Male
Constant Motion is really the only song I ever revisit here. The chorus is a bit on the weaker side but itís a good straight headbanger with DT channeling their inner Metallica. I even like the JLB/Portnoy vocal 1-2 punch. It works for me here. Petrucci sounds great with an awesome solo and Portnoy is on fire. I love JR as much as the next guy but the song would probably be better if he had just sat this one out.

100% agree.

Offline kirksnosehair

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 6954
  • Gender: Male
  • Captain of The ANABASIS
    • The ANABASIS - Music Making a Difference
I voted "pretty bad" because I think the lyrics on this one are not Dream Theater's finest moment.  I get that Petrucci was going for a fantasy theme here, but Dark Masters and Vampire Bites just felt really out of place from a band whose works up to then had carried much more lyrical gravitas.  This felt like a high-school play, lyrically. 


Musically it's got some really brilliant moments (the opening and closing tracks, for example) and some not so brilliant, Repentance, the Vampire song and that electronica thing all felt like tracks that should have been released on a "rarities" album or something like that, or maybe a 1-off EP like ACOS.


Generally speaking there are 3 tracks on this album I listen to, the rest I don't have a lot of use for.


 

Offline Ben_Jamin

  • Posts: 10809
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm just a man, thrown into existence by the gods
After watching the Behind the Scenes documentary, this album is there fun album. They just made songs that were fun and in that spirit JP decided to make fiction style lyrics.

I don't take this album seriously at all. They have many other albums where they get serious. But these songs are just fun to listen to. It's why I was ecstatic when they played ITPOE pt.1, Was worth not looking at the setlist either.
I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man

"We can't rewrite history. We can learn our own history, and share it with other people. While, we learn, from them, their history." -Me,Myself,I

Offline pg1067

  • Posts: 5477
  • Gender: Male
After watching the Behind the Scenes documentary, this album is [their] fun album. They just made songs that were fun

Ummm...what's "fun" about Repentance?  Or TMOLS?
"There's a bass solo in a song called Metropolis where I do a bass solo."  John Myung

Offline Ben_Jamin

  • Posts: 10809
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm just a man, thrown into existence by the gods
After watching the Behind the Scenes documentary, this album is [their] fun album. They just made songs that were fun

Ummm...what's "fun" about Repentance?  Or TMOLS?

Nothing. It's boring.  :biggrin:

It's just the overall vibe I got from them based off the Documentary.
I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man

"We can't rewrite history. We can learn our own history, and share it with other people. While, we learn, from them, their history." -Me,Myself,I

Offline Dublagent66

  • I was once an Analog Kid...
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 8146
  • Gender: Male
  • ...Now I'm a Digital Man
After watching the Behind the Scenes documentary, this album is [their] fun album. They just made songs that were fun

Ummm...what's "fun" about Repentance?  Or TMOLS?

Nothing. It's boring.  :biggrin:

It's just the overall vibe I got from them based off the Documentary.

I get that Repentance is boring mostly due to its extraordinarily slow pace, but TMoLS is anything but boring.  Yeah, it starts out slow but quickly becomes a power ballad and the instrumental section is brilliantly energetic topped off with one of JP's best solos, the awesome unison and one of DT's most epic outros.

Yeah, I also got that vibe from the documentary and with the exception of Repentance and probably PoW too, there's a lot of fun stuff going on.
"We've got nothing to fear but fear itself, not pain, not failure, not fatal tragedy...and the things that we fear are a weapon to be held against us."

Offline Ben_Jamin

  • Posts: 10809
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm just a man, thrown into existence by the gods
After watching the Behind the Scenes documentary, this album is [their] fun album. They just made songs that were fun

Ummm...what's "fun" about Repentance?  Or TMOLS?

Nothing. It's boring.  :biggrin:

It's just the overall vibe I got from them based off the Documentary.

I get that Repentance is boring mostly due to its extraordinarily slow pace, but TMoLS is anything but boring.  Yeah, it starts out slow but quickly becomes a power ballad and the instrumental section is brilliantly energetic topped off with one of JP's best solos, the awesome unison and one of DT's most epic outros.

Yeah, I also got that vibe from the documentary and with the exception of Repentance and probably PoW too, there's a lot of fun stuff going on.

TMoLS is actually my 2nd favorite off of SC.
I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man

"We can't rewrite history. We can learn our own history, and share it with other people. While, we learn, from them, their history." -Me,Myself,I

Offline darkshade

  • Posts: 2821
  • Gender: Male
Ministry. I like the first half and wish the instrumental section kept the same sort of vibe rather than going off like a typical DT instrumental section at that time. The stupid odd-time guitar riff makes another appearance. Imagine a dark, moody instrumental section instead of the one we got. It'd be pretty different for them and elevate Ministry into a pretty unique song but it's just Sacrificed Sons Pt. 2.

or Endless Sacrifice Pt. 3

Offline MetropolisWatches

  • Posts: 167
  • Gender: Male
  • I&W/Awake/SFAM/6 Degrees
Still better than Black Clouds (by a large margin).

Offline Herrick

  • Posts: 1115
  • Gender: Male
  • Hello Mangs
Re: The Systematic Chaos Appreciation (and explanation of disappreciation) Thread
« Reply #342 on: November 01, 2020, 05:34:47 PM »
Who does the very deep voice spoken word stuff on Repentance...and is it an effect?
DISPLAY thy Breasts, My Julia!

Offline IDontNotDoThings

  • call me Brianna
  • Posts: 3156
  • Gender: Female
Re: The Systematic Chaos Appreciation (and explanation of disappreciation) Thread
« Reply #343 on: November 01, 2020, 06:07:50 PM »
Seems like MP, & I assume the effect is just an octave pedal.
I hope you guys are at least listening to female singers while you are naked and cleaning your balls.

Offline Herrick

  • Posts: 1115
  • Gender: Male
  • Hello Mangs
Re: The Systematic Chaos Appreciation (and explanation of disappreciation) Thread
« Reply #344 on: November 01, 2020, 09:27:50 PM »
Seems like MP, & I assume the effect is just an octave pedal.

Thanks, mang. I haven't watched the Systematic Chaos bonus thing in a long time. I forgot about that. I always thought that voice sounded kinda silly.
DISPLAY thy Breasts, My Julia!

Offline Dedalus

  • Posts: 309
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Systematic Chaos Appreciation (and explanation of disappreciation) Thread
« Reply #345 on: November 01, 2020, 10:30:32 PM »
Seems like MP, & I assume the effect is just an octave pedal.

Thanks, mang. I haven't watched the Systematic Chaos bonus thing in a long time. I forgot about that. I always thought that voice sounded kinda silly.

This.

Offline Cool Chris

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 9776
  • Gender: Male
  • Inglourious Basstard
Re: The Systematic Chaos Appreciation (and explanation of disappreciation) Thread
« Reply #346 on: November 01, 2020, 10:38:41 PM »
Seems like MP, & I assume the effect is just an octave pedal.

Thanks, mang. I haven't watched the Systematic Chaos bonus thing in a long time. I forgot about that. I always thought that voice sounded kinda silly.

This.

Agree. The 12 Promises are a great part of AA, and I like that he wanted to incorporate that in to the song/suite, but I don't like the way it was executed.
"Nostalgia is just the ability to forget the things that sucked" - Nelson DeMille, 'Up Country'

Offline darkshade

  • Posts: 2821
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Systematic Chaos Appreciation (and explanation of disappreciation) Thread
« Reply #347 on: November 02, 2020, 07:15:07 AM »
I always thought that section worked better in the context of the entire AA suite.

Offline Herrick

  • Posts: 1115
  • Gender: Male
  • Hello Mangs
Re: The Systematic Chaos Appreciation (and explanation of disappreciation) Thread
« Reply #348 on: November 02, 2020, 01:27:09 PM »
I think Portnoy did the weird deep voice thing on Train of Thought as well...whichever song is part of The 12 Step Suite.
DISPLAY thy Breasts, My Julia!

Offline Dublagent66

  • I was once an Analog Kid...
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 8146
  • Gender: Male
  • ...Now I'm a Digital Man
Re: The Systematic Chaos Appreciation (and explanation of disappreciation) Thread
« Reply #349 on: November 02, 2020, 02:20:45 PM »
I think Portnoy did the weird deep voice thing on Train of Thought as well...whichever song is part of The 12 Step Suite.

This Dying Soul?  Nope, you must be thinking of something else.  I'm pretty sure it's just Repentance.
"We've got nothing to fear but fear itself, not pain, not failure, not fatal tragedy...and the things that we fear are a weapon to be held against us."