Author Topic: Come debate a libertarian!  (Read 5131 times)

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Offline Super Dude

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Re: Come debate a libertarian!
« Reply #35 on: July 02, 2012, 06:40:36 AM »
 :lol Is that it?
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Offline Rathma

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Re: Come debate a libertarian!
« Reply #36 on: July 02, 2012, 09:27:23 AM »
I don't know what his merits are but I'm eager to see a third candidate in the debates or something. Two is just an unlucky number that perpetuates the "either/or" illusion and the Libertarian Party is the fastest growing trend that will get us out of this rut. Ron Paul is betraying his principles by not fully endorsing GJ. Somebody should force an opinion out of him in an interview.

Offline Shine

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Re: Come debate a libertarian!
« Reply #37 on: July 02, 2012, 09:46:47 AM »
What positive merits does GJ have? No seriously, I wanna know.

Not entirely sure what it is you're asking. Do you want reasons why I'll be voting for him, and why I think he'd make a good President?
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Come debate a libertarian!
« Reply #38 on: July 02, 2012, 10:14:46 AM »
I think the interesting part for me to know would be how far down the rabbit hole of Libertarian thought he is. Does he share the idea with RP that half of the government needs to be shut down immediately?

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Offline ohgar

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Re: Come debate a libertarian!
« Reply #39 on: July 02, 2012, 10:55:36 AM »
Welcome DTF.org Libertarian #2472! This is the most right-leaning forum I've ever posted on, but I still wouldn't call it "biased" in either direction--there's a healthy mix of people along the entire spectrum. The fact that you see liberals speaking their opinions freely here does not mean this forum has a liberal bias. Go to 5/8 if you want to see real liberals--most of the people there are refusing to vote for Obama because is not a socialist.
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Offline Super Dude

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Re: Come debate a libertarian!
« Reply #40 on: July 02, 2012, 03:00:32 PM »
For once, I agree with you. I'm a little more apologetic when it comes to your description of DTF, but yes, 5/8 is unequivocally extremely liberal.
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Offline Shine

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Re: Come debate a libertarian!
« Reply #41 on: July 02, 2012, 09:57:19 PM »
I think the interesting part for me to know would be how far down the rabbit hole of Libertarian thought he is. Does he share the idea with RP that half of the government needs to be shut down immediately?

rumborak

No idea where you get the idea Paul wants to shut half the government down immediately, it's just not true. He want's to cut about 15% of spending, which I do think is completely reasonable. A lot of that comes from military expenses, you can actually read what he plans to cut here ->http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/ron-paul-plan-to-restore-america/.
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Offline Super Dude

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Re: Come debate a libertarian!
« Reply #42 on: July 02, 2012, 09:59:42 PM »
We've all had a good look, see "Election 2012" (I'm not gonna go looking for it). It simply isn't feasible.
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Offline jsem

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Re: Come debate a libertarian!
« Reply #43 on: July 03, 2012, 03:53:04 AM »
I tried responding to that exaggeration too, but.... yeah. Reading up on the Election 2012 topic might be of good use, it's like 80 pages or whatever but it'll be a good read.

Also, @garyjohnson's merits: He was New Mexico governor, vetoed over 600 bills. He's a total cost/benefit analysis type of ruler. He has also built a business from scratch to over 1000 employees or something.

More than that.. I dunno. He's not very "presidential" anyway. Romney totally is, and Obama is.

Offline Super Dude

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Re: Come debate a libertarian!
« Reply #44 on: July 03, 2012, 04:39:07 AM »
I don't mean to automatically knock on any candidate put before me, but what does 600 vetoes mean in terms of his merits to you? I don't care if a guy has 5 or 500 vetoes under his belt unless they were for good reason, and I care more about bills passed and what they were about anyway.
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Offline jsem

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Re: Come debate a libertarian!
« Reply #45 on: July 03, 2012, 05:34:12 AM »
Whenever he thought the bills were too costly to the state, he vetoed them. As far as stuff he passed? I don't know...

Offline rumborak

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Re: Come debate a libertarian!
« Reply #46 on: July 03, 2012, 07:52:12 AM »
I don't see how blocking just about everything is supposed to make a good president in a country where the factions are already blocking each other out habitually.
A politician unwilling to make compromises is pretty useless.

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Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Come debate a libertarian!
« Reply #47 on: July 03, 2012, 07:57:25 AM »
Yeah, I think the plethora of vetoes would be something that would count against him with a large portion of the electorate, which is why libertarian candidates will always be on the fringe.

Re: Come debate a libertarian!
« Reply #48 on: July 09, 2012, 04:09:11 PM »
Yeah, I think the plethora of vetoes would be something that would count against him with a large portion of the electorate, which is why libertarian candidates will always be on the fringe.

Is FDR on the fringe with his record 635 vetoes?

Offline Super Dude

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Re: Come debate a libertarian!
« Reply #49 on: July 09, 2012, 04:33:50 PM »
Like I said, it's not about how many vetoes someone makes so much as what they were about, and not so much that even as what legislation they enact.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Come debate a libertarian!
« Reply #50 on: July 09, 2012, 08:08:48 PM »
It's easy to be idealistic when you know you're irrelevant.

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Offline Tanatra

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Re: Come debate a libertarian!
« Reply #51 on: July 09, 2012, 08:19:39 PM »
Every time I see this topic I read it as "Come date a libertarian!"  :lol

Anywho, can't say much about vetoes, but I know that use of the filibuster has exploded in recent years. I remember back when Bush was in office, the Republicans actually tried to ban the filibuster. Given the current political climate, it would have been hilarious if they succeeded.

Offline dominion654

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Re: Come debate a libertarian!
« Reply #52 on: July 09, 2012, 08:25:39 PM »
I'm a libertarian also. Come from highly conservative roots, then my parents and I decided we were more libertarian than anything. We are too open minded to be conservatives in my opinion.
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Offline jsem

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Re: Come debate a libertarian!
« Reply #53 on: July 10, 2012, 02:36:44 PM »
Inb4 complaints about libertarians not being open minded.

Offline Ħ

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Re: Come debate a libertarian!
« Reply #54 on: July 10, 2012, 03:32:38 PM »
One thing the libertarian worldview always ignores (I find) is that you can't just see the US in isolation. A country's standard of living is heavily dependent on how it can influence global markets, and that is directly dependent on the combined negotiating power of that country. In the end, how Europe used to be is kinda the libertarian ideal: Almost completely separate local entities with a small supra-government on top. The problem was, despite its massive population size and overall GDP output, it had a fraction of influence on global markets. That fact was one of the major reasons for the EU's expansion because it wanted to pull up to the level of negotiation power that the US, Russia, China etc. are at.

So, there is an arm's race of entity size going on globally. If the US actually went to the state Libertarians wanted it in, it would be the powerless entity Europe used to be.

rumborak

I...I agree with you. :|
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Offline soundgarden

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Re: Come debate a libertarian!
« Reply #55 on: July 11, 2012, 11:54:54 AM »
My question:

What is the argument allowing a proprietor to discriminate on race, gender, sex, etc.  When has a society ever lived peacefully or lasted with segregational policies?

Offline jsem

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Re: Come debate a libertarian!
« Reply #56 on: July 11, 2012, 02:32:57 PM »
Jim Crow laws aren't particularly libertarian, because it is state oppression. However, if a private individual, on his own land wants to exclude certain people or peoples on his property, it's his right to do so (in a private property libertarian standpoint) even if it's "public accommodation". This is voluntarism and freedom to associate or disassociate, and no one is being forced to associate with any one else based on their beliefs just because they are a restaurant or something.