Author Topic: Are you afraid of death?  (Read 8958 times)

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Offline Ħ

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Re: Are you afraid of death?
« Reply #70 on: June 18, 2012, 04:05:14 PM »
I just wanted to say that based on biology and history, one would expect the poll to be leaning toward the "afraid of death" option, if anything. Clearly it's not, so I suspect something's fishy.
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Offline Sigz

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Re: Are you afraid of death?
« Reply #71 on: June 18, 2012, 04:10:43 PM »
I'm not sure why you're making a biological argument for this. 'Death' is a pretty abstract idea - there's no biological reason to fear it intrinsically unless faced with a potentially fatal situation. I'm not afraid of being dead because I'm not going to be around then to mourn my own non-existence. That doesn't mean I wouldn't be scared in a fatal situation.
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Offline RuRoRul

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Re: Are you afraid of death?
« Reply #72 on: June 18, 2012, 04:32:26 PM »
I generally don't like to claim that people are lying when they talk about what they think, but I have a very hard time believing that the majority of people have no fear of death. Would that mean that if suddenly confronted by a gunman (that was aiming to kill and was a perfect shot), you would feel no fear? I'm not saying people "haven't accepted" death or are that you are all Voldemorts living in constant and extreme fear of death, or that there aren't things most people are more afraid of (prolonged /extreme pain, death of loved one, etc.), but I do think it's a very rare person who truly wouldn't be frightened by the prospect of dying at all, and I just find it very difficult to believe that this forum happens to be populated by dozens of them.

As for me personally, I love life, and I believe there is nothing for me after death. So naturally, since living is very valuable to me and death would deny me of that, I would say I am afraid of death.

Edit: If you do not fear death, then wouldn't there be no reason to be scared in a fatal situation? Since I don't believe in an afterlife, I am not afraid of "being dead" as an experience since I don't believe there is any sort of perception of "being dead" - I am afraid of the prospect of having the chance for any further experience denied, though. The only reasons I could see not to be afraid of that is if you feel that further experiences would be negative (e.g. you are depressed, in extreme suffering, etc.) or that you feel your past experiences have fulfilled you so much that any further experiences would simply be a bonus, and you don't value them so significantly. I believe that age will bring me closer to both of those states, but for now having all possible future experiences taken away is a fairly frightening prospect.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2012, 04:40:13 PM by RuRoRul »

Offline Ħ

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Re: Are you afraid of death?
« Reply #73 on: June 18, 2012, 04:33:21 PM »
Yeah, you can accept death and still fear it.
"All great works are prepared in the desert, including the redemption of the world. The precursors, the followers, the Master Himself, all obeyed or have to obey one and the same law. Prophets, apostles, preachers, martyrs, pioneers of knowledge, inspired artists in every art, ordinary men and the Man-God, all pay tribute to loneliness, to the life of silence, to the night." - A. G. Sertillanges

Offline wolfandwolfandwolf

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Re: Are you afraid of death?
« Reply #74 on: June 18, 2012, 06:02:38 PM »
H, you're splitting hairs. One can fear the proposition of dying but not be afraid of death as it applies to the afterlife or whatever. To call folks liars for how they feel towards it is also pretty off base.

Also, what one means when one is talking about death in this threa may be totally different than what another means. You're argreeing with people.

Offline rumborak

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Re: Are you afraid of death?
« Reply #75 on: June 18, 2012, 07:51:17 PM »
I have to say this whole "people who say they aren't afraid are lying" business awfully reeks of Omega's inability to understand that people can live without a theistically grounded morality.

Just because you can't, doesn't mean nobody else can.

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Offline Omega

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Re: Are you afraid of death?
« Reply #76 on: June 18, 2012, 08:50:55 PM »
I have to say this whole "people who say they aren't afraid are lying" business awfully reeks of Omega's inability to understand that people can live without a theistically grounded morality.

Just because you can't, doesn't mean nobody else can.

rumborak

Then I'm afraid that you've completely misunderstood all I've posted on in regards to morality. My stance was never "Wow! I can't imagine or understand how you live without objective morality". My stance was rather "your proposed moral landscape, if it entails moral-antirealism, if not grounded ontologically, and if without force of law is not only untenable, but patently false and demonstrably so".
« Last Edit: June 18, 2012, 09:19:19 PM by Omega »
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Offline Scheavo

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Re: Are you afraid of death?
« Reply #77 on: June 18, 2012, 09:39:16 PM »
H, you're splitting hairs. One can fear the proposition of dying but not be afraid of death as it applies to the afterlife or whatever.

I wouldn't say anyone is lying, but I gotta say, I think you're the one splitting hairs here. I don't think you're answer is completely answering the question, "are you afraid of death." It seems to me, that if you're afraid of a fatal situation, you are afraid of death.

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Re: Are you afraid of death?
« Reply #78 on: June 18, 2012, 09:50:23 PM »
"Where did we come from? Why are we here? Where do we go when we die? What lies beyond...And what lay before? Is anything certain in life? They say, life is too short, the here and the now and youre only given one shot but could there be more, have I lived before, or could this be all that weve got? If I die tomorrow Id be allright because I believe that after were gone the spirit carries on
I used to be frightened of dying, I used to think death was the end. But that was before Im not scared anymore, I know that my soul will transcend. I may never find all the answers, I may never understand why, I may never prove what I know to be true, But I know that I still have to try." John Petrucci(Dream Theater)  ;D
"And at last the time has come to unite again as one, to the power of the earth I'm calling, crossing bridges in the sky, on a journey to renew my life. Shaman take my hand" John Petrucci(Dream Theater,Bridges In The  Sky, A Dramatic Turn Of Events, 2011)

Offline yeshaberto

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Re: Are you afraid of death?
« Reply #79 on: June 18, 2012, 09:55:26 PM »
"Where did we come from? Why are we here? Where do we go when we die? What lies beyond...And what lay before? Is anything certain in life? They say, life is too short, the here and the now and youre only given one shot but could there be more, have I lived before, or could this be all that weve got? If I die tomorrow Id be allright because I believe that after were gone the spirit carries on
I used to be frightened of dying, I used to think death was the end. But that was before Im not scared anymore, I know that my soul will transcend. I may never find all the answers, I may never understand why, I may never prove what I know to be true, But I know that I still have to try." John Petrucci(Dream Theater)  ;D

nice.
how did it take this long?

Offline wolfandwolfandwolf

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Re: Are you afraid of death?
« Reply #80 on: June 18, 2012, 10:10:53 PM »
H, you're splitting hairs. One can fear the proposition of dying but not be afraid of death as it applies to the afterlife or whatever.

I wouldn't say anyone is lying, but I gotta say, I think you're the one splitting hairs here. I don't think you're answer is completely answering the question, "are you afraid of death." It seems to me, that if you're afraid of a fatal situation, you are afraid of death.
The pain associated with death maybe.  I don't think anyone is particularly fond of the medium by which they die.

Offline Scheavo

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Re: Are you afraid of death?
« Reply #81 on: June 18, 2012, 11:55:41 PM »
H, you're splitting hairs. One can fear the proposition of dying but not be afraid of death as it applies to the afterlife or whatever.

I wouldn't say anyone is lying, but I gotta say, I think you're the one splitting hairs here. I don't think you're answer is completely answering the question, "are you afraid of death." It seems to me, that if you're afraid of a fatal situation, you are afraid of death.
The pain associated with death maybe.  I don't think anyone is particularly fond of the medium by which they die.

I'm not disputing that. I'm saying there's more to it than this.

Perhaps a better question might be, do you care to live? I could argue that if you answer yes to this, you're logically answering yes to fearing death.

Offline obscure

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Re: Are you afraid of death?
« Reply #82 on: June 19, 2012, 01:27:53 AM »
No.  But I'm not very excited about it, either.

Offline SystematicThought

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Re: Are you afraid of death?
« Reply #83 on: June 19, 2012, 02:32:55 AM »
Death, no.

But kind of like Z said, more of afraid of what I leave behind. My greatest fear is dying young (by young I mean in my 30s-50s) and leaving my future wife and kids with nothing or leaving them in undesirable financial conditions and of all the things I could miss with my wife and kids. To me, that is my greatest fear.

Also, to lighten the post: In adulthood, it might be worthwhile to get one of these: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgnDHbeVGG4
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Offline El JoNNo

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Re: Are you afraid of death?
« Reply #84 on: June 19, 2012, 05:34:08 AM »
I have to say this whole "people who say they aren't afraid are lying" business awfully reeks of Omega's inability to understand that people can live without a theistically grounded morality.

Just because you can't, doesn't mean nobody else can.

rumborak

Then I'm afraid that you've completely misunderstood all I've posted on in regards to morality. My stance was never "Wow! I can't imagine or understand how you live without objective morality". My stance was rather "your proposed moral landscape, if it entails moral-antirealism, if not grounded ontologically, and if without force of law is not only untenable, but patently false and demonstrably so".

Please demonstrate it. 

Offline rumborak

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Re: Are you afraid of death?
« Reply #85 on: June 19, 2012, 05:39:47 AM »
I have to say this whole "people who say they aren't afraid are lying" business awfully reeks of Omega's inability to understand that people can live without a theistically grounded morality.

Just because you can't, doesn't mean nobody else can.

rumborak

Then I'm afraid that you've completely misunderstood all I've posted on in regards to morality. My stance was never "Wow! I can't imagine or understand how you live without objective morality". My stance was rather "your proposed moral landscape, if it entails moral-antirealism, if not grounded ontologically, and if without force of law is not only untenable, but patently false and demonstrably so".

And we've shown again and again how you are wrong, by being the plain living examples of it. Your incredulity can at this point IMHO only ascribed to your inability to fathom it.
To use an analogy, you're arguing with us that planes can't fly because they're heavier than air, and ignore the fact that there's thousands flying every day.

rumborak
« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 07:46:11 AM by rumborak »
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Offline El JoNNo

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Re: Are you afraid of death?
« Reply #86 on: June 19, 2012, 05:43:14 AM »
I have to say this whole "people who say they aren't afraid are lying" business awfully reeks of Omega's inability to understand that people can live without a theistically grounded morality.

Just because you can't, doesn't mean nobody else can.

rumborak

Then I'm afraid that you've completely misunderstood all I've posted on in regards to morality. My stance was never "Wow! I can't imagine or understand how you live without objective morality". My stance was rather "your proposed moral landscape, if it entails moral-antirealism, if not grounded ontologically, and if without force of law is not only untenable, but patently false and demonstrably so".

And we've shown again and again how you are wrong, by being the plain living examples of it. Your incredulity can at this point IMHO only ascribed to your inability to to fathom it.

rumborak

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Offline eric42434224

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Re: Are you afraid of death?
« Reply #87 on: June 19, 2012, 08:51:01 AM »
Not wanting death does not necessarily equate to being afraid of it.
There an many things in life I would not want to happen to me...it doesn't mean I am afraid of them.

Oh shit, you're right!

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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Are you afraid of death?
« Reply #88 on: June 19, 2012, 09:30:45 AM »
I'm not afraid of death.  And I'm not lying about it.
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline wolfandwolfandwolf

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Re: Are you afraid of death?
« Reply #89 on: June 19, 2012, 09:55:18 AM »
Perhaps a better question might be, do you care to live? I could argue that if you answer yes to this, you're logically answering yes to fearing death.
I care to live because I don't want to waste my life.  Explain how caring to live means that I logically fear death.  I know a lot of inevitable things are going to happen to me eventually, and I care if they happen, but I certainly don't live in fear of them.

Offline RuRoRul

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Re: Are you afraid of death?
« Reply #90 on: June 19, 2012, 09:59:07 AM »
I have to say this whole "people who say they aren't afraid are lying" business awfully reeks of Omega's inability to understand that people can live without a theistically grounded morality.

Just because you can't, doesn't mean nobody else can.

rumborak
I know, which is why I said I hate to say the "I don't believe your answer is true" type thing, but in this case I just honestly have difficulty believing it. Maybe that is just because I feel differently and can't imagine it, but people in general seem to be afraid of dying (hence why fatal situations tend to induce fear) so this forum just happening to be full of people with no fear of it seems odd to me (since I didn't think there was any connection between liking prog music and not fearing death... maybe that's something someone should look into).

I think you're the one splitting hairs here. I don't think you're answer is completely answering the question, "are you afraid of death." It seems to me, that if you're afraid of a fatal situation, you are afraid of death.
And basically this. To me it seems like most people are answering the question "Are you afraid of being dead?" and and answering "No" because they believe that they won't be suffering (or experiencing anything) while dead. That's not really how I would interpret the question "Are you afraid of death?" If you would feel at all afraid if you were suddenly tied down and about to be subjected to a lethal injection (so that pain is not an issue), then I would describe that as being afraid of death.

Again, perhaps no one here would feel the slightest bit of fear if that happened and I just can't imagine it because I think that I would.  But honestly my best guess is either that most people would feel some fear in that situation and hence are answering wrongly or are answering a different question than I am thinking of.

Offline Omega

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Re: Are you afraid of death?
« Reply #91 on: June 19, 2012, 10:40:17 AM »
Then I'm afraid that you've completely misunderstood all I've posted on in regards to morality. My stance was never "Wow! I can't imagine or understand how you live without objective morality". My stance was rather "your proposed moral landscape, if it entails moral-antirealism, if not grounded ontologically, and if without force of law is not only untenable, but patently false and demonstrably so".

Please demonstrate it.

Again? No, sorry; forgive me if I'm not too eager to do so once more. Through past experience attempting to discuss philosophical matters -- especially morality -- with others here on this subforum, I've come to discover just how immature and emotional DTFers can be when discussing (attempting to discuss seems a more apt wording of it) certain philosophical matters, if not philosophy in general. Not only would I not be able to get one measly post into the ordeal before receiving point-missing and immature responses such as "but atheists can act good and morally too" (guilty as charged, rumborak) or "lol I don't need to believe in some magical fairy or leprechaun to tell me how to act good," but I'd also have to face the prospect of being "warned" again or some such nonsense after an utterly confused crowd of DTFers who aren't even half sure what to be angry about barge into the thread and demand my head on a platter for having the audacity of disagreeing with and challenging the predominantly secular worldview that most of the users happen to share on this subforum.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Are you afraid of death?
« Reply #92 on: June 19, 2012, 11:09:28 AM »
And basically this. To me it seems like most people are answering the question "Are you afraid of being dead?" and and answering "No" because they believe that they won't be suffering (or experiencing anything) while dead. That's not really how I would interpret the question "Are you afraid of death?" If you would feel at all afraid if you were suddenly tied down and about to be subjected to a lethal injection (so that pain is not an issue), then I would describe that as being afraid of death.

Again, perhaps no one here would feel the slightest bit of fear if that happened and I just can't imagine it because I think that I would.  But honestly my best guess is either that most people would feel some fear in that situation and hence are answering wrongly or are answering a different question than I am thinking of.

I see your point, and it might really be more of a question how people interpret the question than the actual underlying fear (or lack thereof). I interpreted the question as "Are you afraid of at one point ceasing to exist?" to which I can solidly say "No". That said, even the remote thought of suffering doesn't right now inspire much more than "well, that would suck indeed". That's not fear though.

rumborak
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Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Are you afraid of death?
« Reply #93 on: June 19, 2012, 11:22:03 AM »
nevermind, bad idea


Offline rumborak

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Re: Are you afraid of death?
« Reply #94 on: June 19, 2012, 11:23:36 AM »
Then I'm afraid that you've completely misunderstood all I've posted on in regards to morality. My stance was never "Wow! I can't imagine or understand how you live without objective morality". My stance was rather "your proposed moral landscape, if it entails moral-antirealism, if not grounded ontologically, and if without force of law is not only untenable, but patently false and demonstrably so".

Please demonstrate it.

Again? No, sorry; forgive me if I'm not too eager to do so once more. Through past experience attempting to discuss philosophical matters -- especially morality -- with others here on this subforum, I've come to discover just how immature and emotional DTFers can be when discussing (attempting to discuss seems a more apt wording of it) certain philosophical matters, if not philosophy in general. Not only would I not be able to get one measly post into the ordeal before receiving point-missing and immature responses such as "but atheists can act good and morally too" (guilty as charged, rumborak) or "lol I don't need to believe in some magical fairy or leprechaun to tell me how to act good," but I'd also have to face the prospect of being "warned" again or some such nonsense after an utterly confused crowd of DTFers who aren't even half sure what to be angry about barge into the thread and demand my head on a platter for having the audacity of disagreeing with and challenging the predominantly secular worldview that most of the users happen to share on this subforum.

Given your grand sweep against half of the posters in this forum, I can definitely also tell you that in my opinion (and probably others) you suffer from delusions of grandeur regarding the heft of your intellectual positions. To us, you're essentially dragging in whatever philosophical scraps you can find to support a theological position that found its origins in a time where religion, morality and life were one and the same thing, and the disagreement to it resulted in your loss of life. To us immature agnostics/atheists, the matter is actually as simple as the sun rising. We a moral because we enjoy being so. Dragging in centuries of apologetics really only corroborates how religion has utterly failed to explain its ultimate raison d'etre.

EDIT: Kirk put it more succinctly I guess :lol

rumborak
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Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Are you afraid of death?
« Reply #95 on: June 19, 2012, 11:25:49 AM »

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Re: Are you afraid of death?
« Reply #96 on: June 19, 2012, 11:37:20 AM »
Death has been on my mind alot lately after a convo with my brother and mom on the matter. Basically, my brother isn't worried or afraid of death because he wont know it. Since the consciousness would be gone, it wouldn't matter anyway, and there would be no worries. He'd be able to explain it better (if he wasn't banned), but my argument was that people are afraid of death because they don't know what comes after, and the thought of no longer being able to think or have consciousness scares the hell out of people, myself included. There's not much I can do about it, but the thought of life just stopping is really scary. Would I awaken as a newborn with a new mind (bit of a paradox there or it just doesn't make any sense) or what?

Yeah, death is pretty fucking scary. Even though I wont be aware I'm dead, I don't want to stop living.

Offline Omega

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Re: Are you afraid of death?
« Reply #97 on: June 19, 2012, 12:11:27 PM »
Given your grand sweep against half of the posters in this forum, I can definitely also tell you that in my opinion (and probably others) you suffer from delusions of grandeur regarding the heft of your intellectual positions. To us, you're essentially dragging in whatever philosophical scraps you can find to support a theological position that found its origins in a time where religion, morality and life were one and the same thing, and the disagreement to it resulted in your loss of life. To us immature agnostics/atheists, the matter is actually as simple as the sun rising. We a moral because we enjoy being so. Dragging in centuries of apologetics really only corroborates how religion has utterly failed to explain its ultimate raison d'etre.

EDIT: Kirk put it more succinctly I guess :lol

rumborak

Opinions come cheap in philosophy, rumborak. If you are unable to defend your philosophical position or your worldview in light of criticism, then you cannot fail to be behaving irrationally. You cannot dismiss a philosophical argument by casting it aside and labeling it as you appear to be doing (and as is embarrassingly incorrect) as an antiquated and now-obsolete method of attaining truth or dismissing it as a purely "religious" endeavor. Can't you see, rumborak, that your very own worldview -- the rejection of the Scholastic and Aristotelian (among others) philosophical foundations which sustain Christianity -- is itself a position that has to be defended? Unbeknown to you, rumborak, your worldview itself rests on layers of philosophical foundations which need be defended (and which are demonstrably incorrect, I would argue). If you really think that a defense of your moral landscape can be achieved as simply as uttering "cuz I like it that way," then not only do you appear to be ignorant of the rather weak philosophical pillars which sustain your very own worldview, but have also failed to understand the purpose of philosophy in the first place. If you care to defend your own worldview with rational arguments or critique mine, then I invite you to attempt to do so. But what you cannot do is simply dismiss another worldview without denying of its arguments and, furthermore, without denying any of its premises. A determined skeptic can always deny the conclusion of one’s argument simply by denying one of the premises. Yet to maintain his atheism in the face of rational argument with premises which one would be unjustified in denying is to compromise ones intellectual integrity.
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Online MrBoom_shack-a-lack

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Re: Are you afraid of death?
« Reply #98 on: June 19, 2012, 12:19:25 PM »
Wow this thread is burning!  :flame:

*Leaves discretley while dodging arrows*
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Offline eric42434224

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Re: Are you afraid of death?
« Reply #99 on: June 19, 2012, 12:21:57 PM »
Wow this thread is burning!  :flame:

*Leaves discretley while dodging arrows*


Yup...here we go again.   :facepalm:
Oh shit, you're right!

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Offline Ħ

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Re: Are you afraid of death?
« Reply #100 on: June 19, 2012, 12:28:43 PM »
H, you're splitting hairs. One can fear the proposition of dying but not be afraid of death as it applies to the afterlife or whatever.

I wouldn't say anyone is lying, but I gotta say, I think you're the one splitting hairs here. I don't think you're answer is completely answering the question, "are you afraid of death." It seems to me, that if you're afraid of a fatal situation, you are afraid of death.
Right on target.
"All great works are prepared in the desert, including the redemption of the world. The precursors, the followers, the Master Himself, all obeyed or have to obey one and the same law. Prophets, apostles, preachers, martyrs, pioneers of knowledge, inspired artists in every art, ordinary men and the Man-God, all pay tribute to loneliness, to the life of silence, to the night." - A. G. Sertillanges

Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Are you afraid of death?
« Reply #101 on: June 19, 2012, 12:35:56 PM »

Offline Adami

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Re: Are you afraid of death?
« Reply #102 on: June 19, 2012, 12:39:10 PM »
IT crowd?
fanticide.bandcamp.com

Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Are you afraid of death?
« Reply #103 on: June 19, 2012, 12:42:41 PM »
I thought it kind of worked in a thread with the title "Are You Afraid of Death?"   :lol

Offline yeshaberto

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Re: Are you afraid of death?
« Reply #104 on: June 19, 2012, 12:56:58 PM »
Omega, once again a thread has turned into a thread about you.  I recognize that some others posts were baiting.  In any case, your previous ban did not help, which I hoped it would.  This is a warning to stay out of p/r or another ban is on its way.