Author Topic: One US soldier suicide per day  (Read 5776 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Odysseus

  • Posts: 245
  • Gender: Male
One US soldier suicide per day
« on: June 14, 2012, 04:48:38 AM »
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2156250/Suicides-U-S-troops-hit-DAY.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

Quote
Shocking figures show one U.S. soldier commits suicide EVERY DAY

Suicides are surging among America's troops, averaging nearly one a day this year - the fastest pace in the nation's decade of war.
The 154 suicides for active-duty troops in the first 155 days of the year far outdistance the U.S. forces killed in action in Afghanistan - about 50 per cent more - according to Pentagon statistics obtained by The Associated Press.
The numbers reflect a military burdened with wartime demands from Iraq and Afghanistan that have taken a greater toll than foreseen a decade ago. The military also is struggling with increased sexual assaults, alcohol abuse, domestic violence and other misbehavior.
Because suicides had leveled off in 2010 and 2011, this year's upswing has caught some officials by surprise.
The reasons for the increase are not fully understood. Among explanations, studies have pointed to combat exposure, post-traumatic stress, misuse of prescription medications and personal financial problems.
Army data suggest soldiers with multiple combat tours are at greater risk of committing suicide, although a substantial proportion of Army suicides are committed by soldiers who never deployed.
The unpopular war in Afghanistan is winding down with the last combat troops scheduled to leave at the end of 2014. But this year has seen record numbers of soldiers being killed by Afghan troops, and there also have been several scandals involving U.S. troop misconduct.
The 2012 active-duty suicide total of 154 through June 3 compares to 130 in the same period last year, an 18 per cent increase. And it's more than the 136.2 suicides that the Pentagon had projected for this period based on the trend from 2001-2011.
This year's January-May total is up 25 percent from two years ago, and it is 16 per cent ahead of the pace for 2009, which ended with the highest yearly total thus far.

Suicide totals have exceeded U.S. combat deaths in Afghanistan in earlier periods, including for the full years 2008 and 2009.
The suicide pattern varies over the course of a year, but in each of the past five years the trend through May was a reliable predictor for the full year, according to a chart based on figures provided by the Armed Forces Medical Examiner.
The numbers are rising among the 1.4 million active-duty military personnel despite years of effort to encourage troops to seek help with mental health problems. Many in the military believe that going for help is seen as a sign of weakness and thus a potential threat to advancement.
Kim Ruocco, widow of Marine Major John Ruocco, a helicopter pilot who hanged himself in 2005 between Iraq deployments, said he was unable to bring himself to go for help.
'He was so afraid of how people would view him once he went for help,' she said in an interview at her home in suburban Boston. 'He thought that people would think he was weak, that people would think he was just trying to get out of redeploying or trying to get out of service, or that he just couldn't hack it - when, in reality, he was sick. He had suffered injury in combat and he had also suffered from depression and let it go untreated for years. And because of that, he's dead today.'
Ruocco is currently director of suicide prevention programs for the military support organization Tragedy Assistance Programs, or TAPS.

more at the link... 

Bloody hell.... I never realised the extent of the problem.  Grim news indeed...  :(

Offline lordxizor

  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2719
  • Gender: Male
  • and that is the truth.
Re: One US soldier suicide per day
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2012, 07:15:50 AM »
Obviously the increase is alarming. My big question is what percentage of soldiers coming back from war commit suicide versus the percentage of the general population? While I suspect the soldiers numbers are higher, the numbers don't mean much without that context.

Offline El Barto

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 20550
  • Bad Craziness
Re: One US soldier suicide per day
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2012, 08:20:04 AM »
Obviously the increase is alarming. My big question is what percentage of soldiers coming back from war commit suicide versus the percentage of the general population? While I suspect the soldiers numbers are higher, the numbers don't mean much without that context.
That's a valid point.  From what I can tell the suicide rate among veterans normally tends to be a bit lower than the general population, but not by much.  However, the current military suicide rate pretty much blows the doors off of the GP.  Here's an article with some stats from 2005.  At that point the Army was just starting to catch up to the rest of the country.  Obviously, it's well past that point now.

My concern isn't so much veterans offing themselves, although I'm somewhat sympathetic to their situation, but when they start to run amok a few years from now.  Much like we saw Vietnam veterans working in the post offices going off in the mid seventies, we're going to see a lot of Iraq/Afghanistan veterans shooting places up in the next few years, and I think they're going to be a lot more proficient at it.  Worse still is the fondness for giving them jobs as cops.  Not only could the requirements not be any more different, but it's creating more issues that might crop up later.  We're already starting to see cops treat traffic stops like Fallujah, and we're still very early in the militarization of LEO.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline kirksnosehair

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 6679
  • Gender: Male
  • I'M CAPTAIN KIRK!!!!!!!!!!!
    • The ANABASIS
Re: One US soldier suicide per day
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2012, 04:15:01 PM »
Good thing our armed forces are "all volunteer" right? 

Offline jsem

  • Posts: 4912
  • Gender: Male
Re: One US soldier suicide per day
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2012, 04:30:30 PM »
I know it's supposed to be sarcastic and all, but no one is forcing them in.

The rate of suicide is horrible though. These wars: destroying families overseas and at home. Not pro-life, not pro-humanity.

Online Chino

  • Be excellent to each other.
  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 20031
  • Gender: Male
Re: One US soldier suicide per day
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2012, 10:34:42 PM »
Obviously the increase is alarming. My big question is what percentage of soldiers coming back from war commit suicide versus the percentage of the general population? While I suspect the soldiers numbers are higher, the numbers don't mean much without that context.
That's a valid point.  From what I can tell the suicide rate among veterans normally tends to be a bit lower than the general population, but not by much.  However, the current military suicide rate pretty much blows the doors off of the GP.  Here's an article with some stats from 2005.  At that point the Army was just starting to catch up to the rest of the country.  Obviously, it's well past that point now.

My concern isn't so much veterans offing themselves, although I'm somewhat sympathetic to their situation, but when they start to run amok a few years from now.  Much like we saw Vietnam veterans working in the post offices going off in the mid seventies, we're going to see a lot of Iraq/Afghanistan veterans shooting places up in the next few years, and I think they're going to be a lot more proficient at it.  Worse still is the fondness for giving them jobs as cops.  Not only could the requirements not be any more different, but it's creating more issues that might crop up later.  We're already starting to see cops treat traffic stops like Fallujah, and we're still very early in the militarization of LEO.

I've been waiting for the right time to post this. I saw this on my news feed about a week ago. I don't know what is scarier, the fact that I believe it really happened, or the fact that so many people like it... I actually sent it to every major paper and news station in CT hoping to get this kind of bullshit out to the public. Sadly, that didn't happen.

« Last Edit: June 14, 2012, 10:43:10 PM by Chino »

Offline jsem

  • Posts: 4912
  • Gender: Male
Re: One US soldier suicide per day
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2012, 02:33:14 AM »
That is repulsive... 27 people liked that?

Offline rumborak

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 26444
Re: One US soldier suicide per day
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2012, 02:46:44 AM »
That sounds fake. If you're doing 85 in a 25 zone and step out of the car with a knife in your hands ... you don't get ask for your registration.

rumborak
"I liked when Myung looked like a women's figure skating champion."

Offline Super Dude

  • Hero of Prog
  • DTF.com Member
  • **
  • Posts: 16159
  • Gender: Male
    • The Nerdy Millennial
Re: One US soldier suicide per day
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2012, 05:53:25 AM »
By the way, do we have confirmation from other sources? Y'know, with this being the Daily Mail and all.
Check out my blog!
Quote from: bosk1
As frequently happens, Super Dude nailed it.

Online Chino

  • Be excellent to each other.
  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 20031
  • Gender: Male
Re: One US soldier suicide per day
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2012, 07:04:19 AM »
That sounds fake. If you're doing 85 in a 25 zone and step out of the car with a knife in your hands ... you don't get ask for your registration.

rumborak

This is what I thnk he was trying to say.... 'I got pulled over doing 60 over the limit because I didn't know I had the cops behind me. When they made me get out of the car, I didn't realize I had my knife strapped to me. I'm a marine, a well as the police officer. We are both superbad ass and think racism is funny. Time to go get shitfaced for the second time today'

Offline El Barto

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 20550
  • Bad Craziness
Re: One US soldier suicide per day
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2012, 08:05:47 AM »
It's too bad they didn't both crash and kill each other.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline kirksnosehair

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 6679
  • Gender: Male
  • I'M CAPTAIN KIRK!!!!!!!!!!!
    • The ANABASIS
Re: One US soldier suicide per day
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2012, 08:50:00 AM »
Unfortunately, this statistic is legitimate.  Just google it, you'll find it being reported all over the place.

A rather significant contributing factor to this has been the military's so-called "Stop Loss" policy, which is what my green sarcasm post above was referring to.

Yeah, our military is all volunteer, but when you're about to be discharged and they extend your active duty to keep you in Afghanistan, some dudes just can't deal.



Offline El Barto

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 20550
  • Bad Craziness
Re: One US soldier suicide per day
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2012, 09:03:58 AM »
Actually, it's getting out of the sandbox that tends to lead people to off themselves.  That's why the suicide rates increase as draw-downs occur.  That's not to say that repeated tours isn't a factor, but it does seem to be indirect.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline Omega

  • Posts: 805
  • Gender: Male
Re: One US soldier suicide per day
« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2012, 09:05:43 AM »
When you take into consideration the fact that soldiers are routinely ordered to kill civilians in a foreign country in the name of some misguided and erroneous sense of "freedom" or some some such absurdity, you can begin to understand why they are killing themselves in such high numbers. Turns out murdering civilians in cold blood can do much damage to one's own mental state.
ΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩ

Offline kirksnosehair

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 6679
  • Gender: Male
  • I'M CAPTAIN KIRK!!!!!!!!!!!
    • The ANABASIS
Re: One US soldier suicide per day
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2012, 09:20:29 AM »
Couldn't agree more, Omega.

Online Chino

  • Be excellent to each other.
  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 20031
  • Gender: Male
Re: One US soldier suicide per day
« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2012, 09:30:44 AM »
I know four people who have gone to Afghanistan, the shortest time spent there being a total of 16 months. Two of them went into service as straight edge... all four of them are now raging alcoholics. I'm assuming that this is common among many soldiers who are coming home. You throw PTSD in the mix of being constantly drunk, disaster is inevitable.

Offline kirksnosehair

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 6679
  • Gender: Male
  • I'M CAPTAIN KIRK!!!!!!!!!!!
    • The ANABASIS
Re: One US soldier suicide per day
« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2012, 12:38:01 PM »
Afghanistan turned my son into a RAGEaholic. 

Offline Scheavo

  • Posts: 5444
Re: One US soldier suicide per day
« Reply #17 on: June 15, 2012, 12:40:09 PM »
Actually, it's getting out of the sandbox that tends to lead people to off themselves.  That's why the suicide rates increase as draw-downs occur.  That's not to say that repeated tours isn't a factor, but it does seem to be indirect.

I imagine going from the highly structured of military life to the completely unstructured clusterfuck of a  society we live in, doesn't help.

Offline El Barto

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 20550
  • Bad Craziness
Re: One US soldier suicide per day
« Reply #18 on: June 15, 2012, 12:45:51 PM »
Actually, it's getting out of the sandbox that tends to lead people to off themselves.  That's why the suicide rates increase as draw-downs occur.  That's not to say that repeated tours isn't a factor, but it does seem to be indirect.

I imagine going from the highly structured of military life to the completely unstructured clusterfuck of a  society we live in, doesn't help.
That certainly seems to be the case.  There's also the enormous support network you have when you're active.  A guy in the sandbox has 50k guys watching his back.  Out here it's every man for himself.  I can definitely see how that, combined with the aforementioned clusterfuck, could really screw somebody up pretty badly.  Compound that with some good, old fashioned shell-shock, and you got a real mess on your hands. 
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline Scheavo

  • Posts: 5444
Re: One US soldier suicide per day
« Reply #19 on: June 15, 2012, 12:50:00 PM »
Makes me wonder what's more toxic for humans: military life, or our current dissociative society. I could see the argument being made for both.

Offline Odysseus

  • Posts: 245
  • Gender: Male
Re: One US soldier suicide per day
« Reply #20 on: June 15, 2012, 04:08:17 PM »
When you take into consideration the fact that soldiers are routinely ordered to kill civilians in a foreign country in the name of some misguided and erroneous sense of "freedom" or some some such absurdity, you can begin to understand why they are killing themselves in such high numbers. Turns out murdering civilians in cold blood can do much damage to one's own mental state.

Gotta agree with that.

I imagine going from the highly structured of military life to the completely unstructured clusterfuck of a  society we live in, doesn't help.

Bloody good point, sir.

Offline lordxizor

  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2719
  • Gender: Male
  • and that is the truth.
Re: One US soldier suicide per day
« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2012, 06:46:29 PM »
I imagine going from the highly structured of military life to the completely unstructured clusterfuck of a  society we live in, doesn't help.

Bloody good point, sir.
Oddly enough people have said the same thing about the American football players who have developed deep depressions and killed themselves. I can complete see how one would get used to being told where to go and when to be there and what to do all the time and struggle with having to make your own choices all the time.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2012, 08:22:23 PM by lordxizor »

Offline Implode

  • Lord of the Squids
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 5517
  • Gender: Male
Re: One US soldier suicide per day
« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2012, 06:59:34 PM »
I've had a similar thing happen to that cop story, just not that extreme. We were on a highway, and my older brother was driving. He got pulled over for speeding. He was probably doing 10-15 over. The cop let him off with a warning presumably after seeing his military ID.

Offline El Barto

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 20550
  • Bad Craziness
Re: One US soldier suicide per day
« Reply #23 on: June 15, 2012, 07:34:11 PM »
It's actually pretty hard to distinguish between honest to goodness corruption, like the above facebook tale, and cops just being lazy.  I've got a great deal of experience with cops and speeding, including an instance of doing around 85 in a 25 zone probably 20 years ago.  That cop was on foot, writing another ticket, and I think he just appreciated that I actually stopped when he pointed menacingly at me as I flew by him.  He said that he was writing a little old lady for doing 35, and that he was going to give me the benefit of the doubt and cite me for 30/25.  Damned friendly, I thought. 

My experience has always been that if they're real cops looking for real crimes, they probably won't write you.  They'd rather be out doing cop stuff than waiting in court to testify against one speeder.  They let me go the majority of the time.  If they're purposely running radar traps, or they're small town cops, they'll write you 100% of the time; discretion does not apply.  Anything outside of those realms is going to come down to whether or not the cop likes you or wants to fuck with you.  That would be considered corruption in my book.  In the facebook story I don't think many cops under any circumstances would let somebody slide completely for that sort of speeding. 
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline Scheavo

  • Posts: 5444
Re: One US soldier suicide per day
« Reply #24 on: June 16, 2012, 01:38:00 AM »
Ya, going 10-15 over the limit usually just results in a "warning." They pull you over, hoping that maybe you'll be drunk, they'll smell some weed, you'll have a warrant, etc. It's usually nothing more than an excuse to pull you over.

Offline Orthogonal

  • Posts: 916
  • Gender: Male
Re: One US soldier suicide per day
« Reply #25 on: June 16, 2012, 09:32:36 AM »
Actually, it's getting out of the sandbox that tends to lead people to off themselves.  That's why the suicide rates increase as draw-downs occur.  That's not to say that repeated tours isn't a factor, but it does seem to be indirect.

I imagine going from the highly structured of military life to the completely unstructured clusterfuck of a  society we live in, doesn't help.
That certainly seems to be the case.  There's also the enormous support network you have when you're active.  A guy in the sandbox has 50k guys watching his back.  Out here it's every man for himself.  I can definitely see how that, combined with the aforementioned clusterfuck, could really screw somebody up pretty badly.  Compound that with some good, old fashioned shell-shock, and you got a real mess on your hands.

Society has its share of problem's but you both have the clusterfuck in reverse. Regardless of how "structured" active military duty may be, modern society barely scratches the surface of how psychologically damaging it is to be in a foreign environment where people are trying to kill or maim you as they protect themselves from your aggressive and murderous assault on their homeland.

Offline El Barto

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 20550
  • Bad Craziness
Re: One US soldier suicide per day
« Reply #26 on: June 16, 2012, 09:41:56 AM »
Actually, it's getting out of the sandbox that tends to lead people to off themselves.  That's why the suicide rates increase as draw-downs occur.  That's not to say that repeated tours isn't a factor, but it does seem to be indirect.

I imagine going from the highly structured of military life to the completely unstructured clusterfuck of a  society we live in, doesn't help.
That certainly seems to be the case.  There's also the enormous support network you have when you're active.  A guy in the sandbox has 50k guys watching his back.  Out here it's every man for himself.  I can definitely see how that, combined with the aforementioned clusterfuck, could really screw somebody up pretty badly.  Compound that with some good, old fashioned shell-shock, and you got a real mess on your hands.

Society has its share of problem's but you both have the clusterfuck in reverse. Regardless of how "structured" active military duty may be, modern society barely scratches the surface of how psychologically damaging it is to be in a foreign environment where people are trying to kill or maim you as they protect themselves from your aggressive and murderous assault on their homeland.
I don't think either of us would disagree with that.  The topic is military folk offing themselves, and the fact that it seems to happen more when their tours are coming to an end or when they return home rather than while they're in country.  Regardless of how fucked up getting shot at by Afghans might be, you can't deny that leaving 18 months of that and returning to here would be an enormous shock to the system. 
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline Scheavo

  • Posts: 5444
Re: One US soldier suicide per day
« Reply #27 on: June 16, 2012, 02:09:03 PM »
Ya, I don't see how they're really exclusive thoughts. But you'd have a hard time explaining why military service people have killed themselves who never served in a war zone if you only looked at the problem through the horrors of actual military combat.

Offline ohgar

  • Wha?
  • Posts: 139
  • Gender: Male
  • Pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo.
Re: One US soldier suicide per day
« Reply #28 on: July 01, 2012, 09:33:57 AM »
US soldiers kill way more than one person per day so I consider this a nice first step toward justice.
Iam pridem, ex quo suffragia nulli vendimus, effudit curas; nam qui dabat olim imperium, fasces, legiones, omnia, nunc se continet atque duas tantum res anxius optat, panem et circenses.

Offline Super Dude

  • Hero of Prog
  • DTF.com Member
  • **
  • Posts: 16159
  • Gender: Male
    • The Nerdy Millennial
Re: One US soldier suicide per day
« Reply #29 on: July 01, 2012, 10:03:51 AM »
Well all unnecessary killing is bad, so...
Check out my blog!
Quote from: bosk1
As frequently happens, Super Dude nailed it.

Offline Ben_Jamin

  • Posts: 8182
  • Gender: Male
  • Do a nice one for grandma
Re: One US soldier suicide per day
« Reply #30 on: July 01, 2012, 12:31:44 PM »
If the gov't actually cared about its military they'd have them go to a mandatory psychological evaluation, after returning home. I'm amazed families havent considered doing this, I hope their are some that do though.
I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man

I Love You...Poppin Fresh

Offline Super Dude

  • Hero of Prog
  • DTF.com Member
  • **
  • Posts: 16159
  • Gender: Male
    • The Nerdy Millennial
Re: One US soldier suicide per day
« Reply #31 on: July 01, 2012, 12:32:44 PM »
It could be those families can't afford it. I don't know how much the G.I. bill is worth so idk. But therapy is expensive, especially over the long term, and that's not including the medications that might be necessary.
Check out my blog!
Quote from: bosk1
As frequently happens, Super Dude nailed it.

Offline Sigz

  • BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 13530
  • Gender: Male
  • THRONES FOR THE THRONE SKULL
Re: One US soldier suicide per day
« Reply #32 on: July 01, 2012, 12:48:04 PM »
US soldiers kill way more than one person per day so I consider this a nice first step toward justice.

There are so many things wrong with this statement I don't even know where to begin.
Quote
The world is a stage, but the play is badly cast.

Offline El Barto

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 20550
  • Bad Craziness
Re: One US soldier suicide per day
« Reply #33 on: July 01, 2012, 02:14:10 PM »
It could be those families can't afford it. I don't know how much the G.I. bill is worth so idk. But therapy is expensive, especially over the long term, and that's not including the medications that might be necessary.
Yeah, as I recall, counseling and therapy are the first things to get whacked come budget time.  Just too expensive and not deemed as important as, say, removing shrapnel and sewing limbs back on. 
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline theseoafs

  • When the lights go down in the city, and the sun shines on the bayyyyy
  • Posts: 5573
  • Gender: Male
  • Hello! My name is Elder Price
Re: One US soldier suicide per day
« Reply #34 on: July 01, 2012, 02:31:20 PM »
US soldiers kill way more than one person per day so I consider this a nice first step toward justice.

You are a bad person.

EDIT: I realize this was harsh. I thought about changing it to something else but I don't think I'm going to.