Author Topic: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2  (Read 333346 times)

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Online El Barto

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #805 on: June 18, 2010, 08:16:56 AM »
El Barto, you have any insight on the wind industry in Texas? From what I've heard, the State created a carbon market, and made incentives for there to be wind energy. The market took off, exceeding expectations, and Texas now leads the nation in Wind energy production.
Don't know anything about government incentives.  Wind has always been pretty popular here, whether or not that's due to those incentives, I have no idea.  The problem now is that the addition of so much wind power has saturated the infrastructure.  T Boone Pickens was building what would have been one of the largest wind farms in the world, and has had to postpone it indefinitely due in part to a lack of available transmission lines.   
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Offline Scheavo

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #806 on: June 18, 2010, 06:55:46 PM »
Ya, forgetting about transmission lines was a major oops in the entire ordeal, but that's not an entirely hard thing to accomplish (that is, there's no technological issue). But... doesn't reaching that infrastructural bottleneck show how much wind energy has shot up in the market place?

Offline emindead

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #807 on: June 20, 2010, 06:04:07 PM »
Today Colombia elected its worst president. It's a sad day.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2010, 11:00:20 PM by emindead »

Offline ddtonfire

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #808 on: June 20, 2010, 08:22:34 PM »
Ya, forgetting about transmission lines was a major oops in the entire ordeal, but that's not an entirely hard thing to accomplish (that is, there's no technological issue). But... doesn't reaching that infrastructural bottleneck show how much wind energy has shot up in the market place?

The infrastructure's also ~60 years old and really showed its vulnerability/inability the 2003 blackout.

Offline Scheavo

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #809 on: June 21, 2010, 03:13:34 PM »
Ya, forgetting about transmission lines was a major oops in the entire ordeal, but that's not an entirely hard thing to accomplish (that is, there's no technological issue). But... doesn't reaching that infrastructural bottleneck show how much wind energy has shot up in the market place?

The infrastructure's also ~60 years old and really showed its vulnerability/inability the 2003 blackout.

Ya, we really need to update our infrastructure. We waste a lot of energy in the ones we have now.

Online El Barto

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #810 on: June 21, 2010, 03:44:00 PM »
Ya, forgetting about transmission lines was a major oops in the entire ordeal, but that's not an entirely hard thing to accomplish (that is, there's no technological issue). But... doesn't reaching that infrastructural bottleneck show how much wind energy has shot up in the market place?

The infrastructure's also ~60 years old and really showed its vulnerability/inability the 2003 blackout.

Ya, we really need to update our infrastructure. We waste a lot of energy in the ones we have now.
Interesting.  I'm not sure we should even think about upgrading infrastructure now, since we have no idea what we'll be upgrading to.  In the case of electricity, there is no efficient means of transporting it.  We don't know what future demands will be (they might be lower).  We don't know where it will come from.  A simple prediction might be that most buildings become electrically self-sufficient in the not-to-distant future. 
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Offline Scheavo

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #811 on: June 21, 2010, 04:56:40 PM »
Ya, forgetting about transmission lines was a major oops in the entire ordeal, but that's not an entirely hard thing to accomplish (that is, there's no technological issue). But... doesn't reaching that infrastructural bottleneck show how much wind energy has shot up in the market place?

The infrastructure's also ~60 years old and really showed its vulnerability/inability the 2003 blackout.

Ya, we really need to update our infrastructure. We waste a lot of energy in the ones we have now.
Interesting.  I'm not sure we should even think about upgrading infrastructure now, since we have no idea what we'll be upgrading to.  In the case of electricity, there is no efficient means of transporting it.  We don't know what future demands will be (they might be lower).  We don't know where it will come from.  A simple prediction might be that most buildings become electrically self-sufficient in the not-to-distant future. 

Good point, a delocalized power grid would completely change everything. I still think there will be some need for energy transportation, especially in big cities. Updating our power lines would not only allow for the transportation of the energy, but would waste less of it, reducing demand.


Offline Tick

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #812 on: June 21, 2010, 04:56:57 PM »
Yup. Tick is dead on.  She's not your type.  Move on.   Tick is Obi Wan Kenobi


Online El Barto

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #813 on: June 21, 2010, 09:15:07 PM »
Ya, forgetting about transmission lines was a major oops in the entire ordeal, but that's not an entirely hard thing to accomplish (that is, there's no technological issue). But... doesn't reaching that infrastructural bottleneck show how much wind energy has shot up in the market place?

The infrastructure's also ~60 years old and really showed its vulnerability/inability the 2003 blackout.

Ya, we really need to update our infrastructure. We waste a lot of energy in the ones we have now.
Interesting.  I'm not sure we should even think about upgrading infrastructure now, since we have no idea what we'll be upgrading to.  In the case of electricity, there is no efficient means of transporting it.  We don't know what future demands will be (they might be lower).  We don't know where it will come from.  A simple prediction might be that most buildings become electrically self-sufficient in the not-to-distant future. 

Good point, a delocalized power grid would completely change everything. I still think there will be some need for energy transportation, especially in big cities. Updating our power lines would not only allow for the transportation of the energy, but would waste less of it, reducing demand.


Are there ways that power transmission lines can be upgraded to become more efficient? 

If the only solution is to build more of them to offset loss, then I'd suggest that the better option would be to lessen demand downstream where possible (self-sufficient buildings) so that the places that still rely on massive amounts of external power can have more of the existing capacity. 




Quote
Tick's picture
Since he's actually somewhat bright, and I never associated him with being bitter, I'd say the description sucks (though he does have shitty taste in beer).
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Offline Tick

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #814 on: June 21, 2010, 09:18:44 PM »



Quote
Tick's picture
Since he's actually somewhat bright, and I never associated him with being bitter, I'd say the description sucks (though he does have shitty taste in beer).
[/quote]

Obama blows! Anything degrading him is funny in my books. :tick2: :metal
Yup. Tick is dead on.  She's not your type.  Move on.   Tick is Obi Wan Kenobi


Offline Scheavo

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #815 on: June 22, 2010, 12:23:59 AM »
Ya, forgetting about transmission lines was a major oops in the entire ordeal, but that's not an entirely hard thing to accomplish (that is, there's no technological issue). But... doesn't reaching that infrastructural bottleneck show how much wind energy has shot up in the market place?

The infrastructure's also ~60 years old and really showed its vulnerability/inability the 2003 blackout.

Ya, we really need to update our infrastructure. We waste a lot of energy in the ones we have now.
Interesting.  I'm not sure we should even think about upgrading infrastructure now, since we have no idea what we'll be upgrading to.  In the case of electricity, there is no efficient means of transporting it.  We don't know what future demands will be (they might be lower).  We don't know where it will come from.  A simple prediction might be that most buildings become electrically self-sufficient in the not-to-distant future. 

Good point, a delocalized power grid would completely change everything. I still think there will be some need for energy transportation, especially in big cities. Updating our power lines would not only allow for the transportation of the energy, but would waste less of it, reducing demand.


Are there ways that power transmission lines can be upgraded to become more efficient? 

high-voltage transmission lines. It's nothing new, it's something we already do, we just don't fund it enough. But I also want to stress storage. At night, we produce a lot of energy which never gets used, so if we stored that, we would reduce the demand for new power plants. Some idea's I've seen for this are quite ingenious, like using an artificial underground lake to basically store wind energy; it works just like a damn during the day, just the water goes underground; then at night, when the wind is still active, that energy is used to pump the water back up into the river / water supply.

Quote
If the only solution is to build more of them to offset loss, then I'd suggest that the better option would be to lessen demand downstream where possible (self-sufficient buildings) so that the places that still rely on massive amounts of external power can have more of the existing capacity. 

I agree, but it seems like in the meantime we can improve the grid as well.

As for that Obama picture.. not a bad play on words/meaning, but I find it ironic that the author says Obama has no head. Disagree with him all you want, the man is no dummy.

Offline AcidLameLTE

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #816 on: June 22, 2010, 06:05:45 AM »
Anyway British folk following George Osbourne delivering his first budget?

https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/politics/live_event/

Offline antigoon

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #817 on: June 22, 2010, 08:32:45 PM »

Obama blows! Anything degrading him is funny in my books. :tick2: :metal

:facepalm:



Just read the McChrystal Rolling Stone article. :lol

Offline MetalMike06

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #818 on: June 22, 2010, 08:43:39 PM »
Today Colombia elected its worst president. It's a sad day.

Last night, the local evening news here said that the new Colombian president is from Kansas, or went to school here at KU or something. Interesting.

Online El Barto

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #819 on: June 22, 2010, 09:53:12 PM »

Just read the McChrystal Rolling Stone article. :lol

Just read TWJ's take on it.  They're really calling for his ass.
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Offline emindead

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #820 on: June 22, 2010, 11:09:14 PM »
Today Colombia elected its worst president. It's a sad day.
Last night, the local evening news here said that the new Colombian president is from Kansas, or went to school here at KU or something. Interesting.
Yeah, more like he went there. Is that actually a good Uni? Because here say that it is a regular one. But I wouldn't know...

Offline Scheavo

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #821 on: June 22, 2010, 11:44:03 PM »

Just read the McChrystal Rolling Stone article. :lol

Just read TWJ's take on it.  They're really calling for his ass.

I think the man wants to be fired, it's almost like he pulled a George Costanza. And I mean, I completely disagree with Obama's strategy, even the one he talked about during the campaign... but I'm not a General, in charge of strategy, attempting to lead troops to victory... nor am I the underling of Obama.

Offline Tick

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #822 on: June 23, 2010, 09:08:40 AM »

Just read the McChrystal Rolling Stone article. :lol

Just read TWJ's take on it.  They're really calling for his ass.
McChrystal was wrong to dishonor the commander and chief in a tabloid, and in a piece of shit rag like Rolling Stone of all places. His thoughts were quite valid but definitely misplaced. Two wrongs don't make a right and maybe he has enough of Obama and this is his way oot. Obama will look bad no matter what he does on this.tick2:
Yup. Tick is dead on.  She's not your type.  Move on.   Tick is Obi Wan Kenobi


Online El Barto

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #823 on: June 25, 2010, 11:51:13 AM »
Just read the RS article on McChrystal.  RS is the biggest joke ever as a music magazine, but their political writing is often quite good.  This was a damned enlightening piece of work.  It provided a good portrait of an interesting guy, and pointed out the good/bad of the situation without pretending to know the answers.

This whole situation is a bummer.  McChrystal seems like a damned useful guy to have working.  Unfortunately, CI is invariably a losing proposition.  The war in Afghanistan became unwinnable as soon as it became a military operation; about 3 months in.  This guy was absolutely wrong and needed to be fired, but in many other instances, he'd be (and was) fantastic at his job.  Just don't ask him to do the impossible, and CI in this situation is impossible. 
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Offline Scheavo

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #824 on: June 25, 2010, 03:22:35 PM »
But... isn't McChrystal the one who pushed for the current operations? So it's not as if he was asked to do something impossible, he suggested doing something impossible, and then realized it.


Online El Barto

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #825 on: June 25, 2010, 03:43:41 PM »
But... isn't McChrystal the one who pushed for the current operations? So it's not as if he was asked to do something impossible, he suggested doing something impossible, and then realized it.


Definitely true.  However, I'd guess his only options were to tell the C&C that the war is unwinnable and pull out, or adopt a CI strategy.  He didn't choose CI.  He inherited an insurgency and had to make a plan.  He knew the difficulties and was aware that his plan would take many years; many more than he had.  I'd blame is predicament on the last two presidents, as well as each successor until we get to the one with the balls to say "we're out of here."  The president that will win this war is the one who can admit that we already lost. 
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Offline Scheavo

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #826 on: June 25, 2010, 04:57:19 PM »
How did he not choose CI? You yourself point out that he did have options, he didn't have to choose to fight. Isn't there a saying about bad generals, and not knowing the right time to fight? I just don't see how any of McChrsytals actions were involuntary. He had a bad situations to deal with, yes, but I have yet to see any evidence to suggest he wasn't fully free in how he responded. Obama went to him for advice on how to win the war, and McChyrstal gave him a CI plan...

But yes, the sooner we pull out, the better.


Online El Barto

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #827 on: June 25, 2010, 09:59:51 PM »
He had a choice if you consider tendering your resignation a valid option.  It's either "I quit, seeya," or "well, fuck, I guess lets deal with the insurgency then."  I don't think he had much choice on the professional level.  His job was to continue the war against Afghanistan.  He chose to remain at his job and CI was the hand he was dealt. 
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Offline MetalMike06

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #828 on: June 25, 2010, 10:55:33 PM »
Today Colombia elected its worst president. It's a sad day.
Last night, the local evening news here said that the new Colombian president is from Kansas, or went to school here at KU or something. Interesting.
Yeah, more like he went there. Is that actually a good Uni? Because here say that it is a regular one. But I wouldn't know...

There really isn't anything outrageously special or prestigious about it. Not a bad school though. But yeah, it's just a regular public university.

Offline Scheavo

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #829 on: June 26, 2010, 03:08:16 AM »
He had a choice if you consider tendering your resignation a valid option.  It's either "I quit, seeya," or "well, fuck, I guess lets deal with the insurgency then."  I don't think he had much choice on the professional level.  His job was to continue the war against Afghanistan.  He chose to remain at his job and CI was the hand he was dealt. 

Call me idealistic, I just don't think a General should put his profession above the troops he's commanding and putting into harms way. War is stupid fucking enough to begin with, and the last thing soldiers need is a General who's more concerned about his salary then their well-being.

Plus, there's no real certainty what would have happened had he suggested a withdrawal. Many people within the Military may not have liked it, but none of that matters given the President's commands.

Online El Barto

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #830 on: June 26, 2010, 12:17:07 PM »
He had a choice if you consider tendering your resignation a valid option.  It's either "I quit, seeya," or "well, fuck, I guess lets deal with the insurgency then."  I don't think he had much choice on the professional level.  His job was to continue the war against Afghanistan.  He chose to remain at his job and CI was the hand he was dealt. 

Call me idealistic, I just don't think a General should put his profession above the troops he's commanding and putting into harms way. War is stupid fucking enough to begin with, and the last thing soldiers need is a General who's more concerned about his salary then their well-being.

Plus, there's no real certainty what would have happened had he suggested a withdrawal. Many people within the Military may not have liked it, but none of that matters given the President's commands.
I don't know that he didn't suggest withdrawal.  Whether he did or not, if the decision has been made to continue the war, then any general worth a damn will take the attitude that they're the best man for the job.  This guy in particular was highly arrogant, and undoubtedly believed that if there was to be a CI operation, then he stood the best chance of pulling it off.  That's not to say that he liked the idea, just that he wanted the best for it if that was the decision.  This is a professional decision not motivated by personal gain. 
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Offline Scheavo

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #831 on: June 26, 2010, 08:56:52 PM »
I don't know that he didn't suggest withdrawal.

I suppose in time we may know whether or not he did, but it doesn't seem like a very plausible scenario to me.

And, I'm sorry, but I just don't see how a "professional decision" cannot be "motivated by personal gain." That seems like an inherent contradiction to me - or does it have to do with the hopeful altruism of the military?

Offline ogrejedi

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #832 on: June 27, 2010, 02:04:11 PM »
I specifically remember Obama promising to get the U.S. out of Iraq in 2009. He said it when campaigning against Hillary Clinton: "I was against the war in 2003, I'm against the war in 2008, and I'm going to get us out of the war in 2009." I'm surprised this hasn't been talked about more. Well, not surprised, since the media is the 4th branch of the government.
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Offline Nigerius Rex

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #833 on: June 27, 2010, 10:42:51 PM »

Offline Scheavo

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #834 on: June 28, 2010, 12:13:37 AM »
The logic, it burns:

https://www.healthy-eating-politics.com/american-diabetes-association.html


This ignores humans use of agriculture in the past several thousand years, and ignores the presence of high fructose corn syrup (which contains 45% glucose) in almost all processed foods.

Offline Nigerius Rex

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #835 on: June 28, 2010, 01:10:03 AM »
How do any of those things change either of the conclusions?

Offline Scheavo

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #836 on: June 28, 2010, 07:36:30 PM »
Because the problem is not with "bread, cereal, rice, and pasta," as the poster/picture is saying.

WHich also means the food pyramid isn't the great evil you want it to be.

Offline Nigerius Rex

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #837 on: June 28, 2010, 08:22:09 PM »
No, it is precisely what the poster is saying. The problem is carbohydrates whether they contain hfcs or not. The federal dietary guidelines also recommend way too many as part of a healthy diet.

According to the FDA a healthy adult male should be eating 300 carbs per day from fruit or otherwise. Do you know what that would do to anyones blood sugar? The results would be disastrous and almost certainly cause the person to become fat and develop insulin resistance and diabetes as well as a number of ailments commonly associated with obesity.

Kind of like exactly what is going on right now...
« Last Edit: June 28, 2010, 08:29:06 PM by Nigerius Rex »

Offline Scheavo

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #838 on: June 28, 2010, 09:00:35 PM »
Not all carbohydrates effects the body in the same way. Fructose causes increased insulin resistance and bad cholesterol, as compared to glucose.

Besides, remember that I don't agree with a recommended diet by the government. There isn't a one size fit's all diet. However, that poster throws the baby out with the bath water. Yes, we eat too much carbohydrates, but don't demonize grains in the process - demonize the vast amounts of sweeteners and sugars Americans digest in just about everything.



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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #839 on: June 28, 2010, 09:19:02 PM »
NR, I'm just curious, are you under the impression that all vegetarians and vegans are fat with diabetes and heart problems? It seems you say meat is the best thing to eat and everything else is bad for you.
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