Author Topic: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2  (Read 339541 times)

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Offline Sigz

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1330 on: December 09, 2011, 05:55:38 PM »
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Offline antigoon

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1331 on: December 14, 2011, 02:08:35 PM »
I think the Obama Administration just doesn't want the military messing with its executive authority in those areas.

This doesn't make sense to me though... Obama is the Commander in Chief, so how is giving the military priority in any way undermine Obama's authority?
But it's still under his executive authority? I'm obviously missing something hear. Undermining his authority would be to give this power to Congress, not give it to Obama in a different way.

I think the bill would be damaging in other ways, but not becuase it "undermines" Obama's authority. He would still have authority over the cases, he would still be able to authoritatively decide how the cases would be handled, etc.
What I'm saying is that I think adding a whole new layer of complication and scrutiny to the powers he already has would weaken and jeopardize them.

Don't worry guys, looks like he's not gonna veto it after all.

Quote
A White House statement says changes by congressional negotiators would not challenge or restrict the president's ability to collect intelligence or incapacitate terrorists.

The White House had threatened a veto over provisions requiring military custody of suspected terrorists linked to al-Qaida.



Offline El Barto

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1332 on: December 14, 2011, 02:36:03 PM »
Quote
A White House statement says changes by congressional negotiators would not challenge or restrict the president's ability to collect intelligence or incapacitate terrorists.

The White House had threatened a veto over provisions requiring military custody of suspected terrorists linked to al-Qaida.



What an asshole.
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Offline Super Dude

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1333 on: December 14, 2011, 03:03:00 PM »
WTF.
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Offline Scheavo

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1334 on: December 14, 2011, 03:59:12 PM »
Wouldn't have been surprised though if the veto had been overridden.


Offline antigoon

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1335 on: December 14, 2011, 08:22:54 PM »

Offline El Barto

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1336 on: December 14, 2011, 10:54:04 PM »
At this point,  given that Obama is the spiritual successor to Dumbass and a pussy as well,  I'm starting to think he's going to cave on the mandatory defense cuts.  He'll milk it as a campaign issue,  but at the end of the day he'll let the Republicans off the hook. 
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
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Offline Super Dude

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1337 on: December 14, 2011, 11:03:08 PM »
And so back to my old argument that while Obama is not a great president, I would put it all behind a strong Democrat if the opportunity arose.
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Offline antigoon

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1338 on: December 15, 2011, 08:44:22 AM »
My favorite part of this is that the White House was actually the entity that requested removal of the provision that would exempt American citizens from indefinite military detention.

Offline Super Dude

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1339 on: December 15, 2011, 08:48:35 AM »
That's pretty messed up. I would like to know however if that came from the very top or what.
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Offline Nick

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1340 on: December 15, 2011, 11:27:45 AM »
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=29968.0

Well, after reading that I'm thinking that maybe my 2011 DTF New Years Eve Orgy won't work out. :(
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Offline antigoon

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1341 on: December 15, 2011, 11:28:45 AM »
it's okay nick everything will be ok

Offline Super Dude

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1342 on: December 15, 2011, 02:46:26 PM »
Something I forgot to point out before: terrible timing for the White House. This could seriously hurt Obama next year.

Although I can see two ways he can wriggle out of it:

1. Just go back on his word and veto the damn thing (unlikely, but there is always the pocket veto)

2. Take it to the Supreme Court (also small chance of success, but at least that's what they're supposed to do)
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Offline antigoon

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1343 on: December 15, 2011, 02:49:38 PM »
I don't think it's going to hurt him. He's already lost people like me, and the rest of those who even care about this shit are going to vote for him anyway because they find Newt Romney so unpalatable.

And the libertarians weren't voting for him anyway

Offline Super Dude

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1344 on: December 15, 2011, 02:53:15 PM »
BTW, who are you thinking of voting for? If at all?
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Offline antigoon

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1345 on: December 15, 2011, 02:58:44 PM »
I don't know. I am really conflicted about my one little vote. I guess I'll convince my parents to vote for Paul in the primaries since NY is a closed primary state.

Offline antigoon

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1346 on: December 15, 2011, 04:35:47 PM »
Quote from: Senator Obama
You know I taught constitutional law for 10 years at the University of Chicago, so…um…your next President will actually believe in the Constitution which you can’t say about your current President. [applause]

In today’s environment in particular I want Supreme Court Justices who are vigilant about civil liberties. Because I think that when people are afraid — and terrorism has created fear — then that’s when the greatest danger to civil liberties happens. It’s easy to be for civil liberties when there are no threats. It’s when there are threats that you start seeing civil liberties chipped away at. So I want a President…I want a Supreme Court that is not just giving the President a blank check for whatever power grab he or she is engaging in.

By the way that also means that when I’m President one of the first things I’m going to do is call in my attorney general and say to him or her I want you to review every executive order that’s been issued by George Bush — whether it relates to warrantless wiretaps, or detaining people or reading e-mails, or whatever it is — I want you to go through every single one of them and if they are unconstitutional or they are encroaching on civil liberties unnecessarily we are going to overturn them…we are going to change them.
https://www.mtv.com/videos/news/185105/18-of-21-a-president-who-believes-in-the-constitution.jhtml#id=1572958

Do you know what debate I would really like to see? Candidate Obama vs. President Obama

... and yes i know finding this stuff is unproductive and fruitless

Offline AcidLameLTE

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1347 on: December 16, 2011, 05:36:10 PM »
It's amazing to think that religion is so far removed from politics in the UK that when the prime minister talks about it once, it actually becomes a huge news story:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-16224394

It's currently the most read article on the BBC

Offline jsem

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1348 on: December 16, 2011, 05:45:56 PM »
NDAA is complete and utter crap. I can't see how any progressive could support Obama in the next election.

I mean, Rocky Anderson is running a 3rd party bid. Plus, progressives should vote for either Johnson or Paul in the GOP primaries/caucuses anyway.

Offline antigoon

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1349 on: December 16, 2011, 05:51:07 PM »
i am considering registering republican to do that.


did i just say that


Offline antigoon

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1350 on: December 17, 2011, 08:43:32 AM »
Ron Paul on Jay Leno
https://ronpaulflix.com/2011/12/ron-paul-with-jay-leno-dec-16-2011/

Skip to 17:23 for a little nugget of truth and hilarity

Offline Sigz

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1351 on: December 19, 2011, 02:57:43 PM »
Quote
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Offline El Barto

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1352 on: December 19, 2011, 03:16:36 PM »
Nearly 1/3 of Americans are arrested by age 23

Whoa.
Yeah,  23 was about right for me.  Guess I was a late bloomer. 

Of course there doesn't appear to be any differentiating between felonies and misdemeanors.  I'd be one of their statistics,  and I was busted for what amounted to a parking ticket.  If some dickhead cop hadn't impounded our vehicle,  the whole matter would have been <2 hours and $200.  Encounters like that shouldn't really be a statistic. 
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Offline Riceball

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1353 on: December 19, 2011, 04:48:23 PM »
As a user of stats, I say on behalf of stat users everywhere: don't let technicalities get in the way of a good story :P
I punch those numbers into my calculator and they make a happy face.

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Offline Sigz

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1354 on: December 26, 2011, 11:53:26 PM »
Conservapedia hosts the "Conservative Bible Project", a project aiming to rewrite the English translation of the Bible in order to remove terms described as "liberal bias".

lol
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Offline El Barto

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1355 on: December 29, 2011, 12:49:50 PM »
CNN is actually discussing Americans Elect.  First mention I've seen of them in the MSM. 
https://www.cnn.com/2011/12/29/politics/americans-elect/index.html?eref=mrss_igoogle_cnn

Interestingly,  they actually do a much better job of explaining Americans Elect than AE does. 
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
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Offline antigoon

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1356 on: December 29, 2011, 05:08:08 PM »
Pushing the dialogue to the center is fine, but the most extreme things our government does are supported by both parties. I'm not concerned about combating extreme right-wing views on gay marriage. Or extreme left-wing...er...there isn't really an extreme left voice in our government today anyway.


Quote
One point of contention is that the group does not disclose the names of its donors, citing its nonprofit status and fears that contributors could find themselves losing potential business or social contacts. Critics contend the secrecy undermines the organization's claims of openness and transparency, and they argue that any group with such a clear electoral goal should not be exempt from disclosure rules governing the Democratic and Republican national committees.
I have a growing feeling that whoever the AE Board vets and becomes the eventual nominee is just going to be another super-rich establishment jerkoff.



Offline Nick

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1357 on: December 30, 2011, 09:19:01 PM »
Edit: Thread coming.
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Offline Super Dude

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1358 on: January 04, 2012, 08:15:42 AM »
Quote from: bosk1
As frequently happens, Super Dude nailed it.
:superdude:

Offline antigoon

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1359 on: January 04, 2012, 10:08:36 AM »
Saw this and thought of you, Barto. I can't remember where, but there was some speculation about this in some thread around here.

https://www.allgov.com//ViewNews/TSA_Spreads_to_Trains_Subways_Bus_Terminals_and_Ferries_120104

"The Transportation Security Administration isn't just in airports anymore. TSA teams are increasingly conducting searches and screenings at train stations, subways, ferry terminals and other mass transit locations around the country.

"We are not the Airport Security Administration," said Ray Dineen, the air marshal in charge of the TSA office in Charlotte. "We take that transportation part seriously.""
https://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-terror-checkpoints-20111220,0,3213641.story

Offline GuineaPig

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1360 on: January 04, 2012, 10:37:49 AM »
I don't mind the TSA doing stuff like that.  Being visible is part of security, and part of ensuring public trust in transportation.

That being said, airport style screenings must not come to public transport.  It would be a death knell for any attempts to move towards sustainable means of transportation.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1361 on: January 04, 2012, 11:03:02 AM »
Saw this and thought of you, Barto. I can't remember where, but there was some speculation about this in some thread around here.

https://www.allgov.com//ViewNews/TSA_Spreads_to_Trains_Subways_Bus_Terminals_and_Ferries_120104

"The Transportation Security Administration isn't just in airports anymore. TSA teams are increasingly conducting searches and screenings at train stations, subways, ferry terminals and other mass transit locations around the country.

"We are not the Airport Security Administration," said Ray Dineen, the air marshal in charge of the TSA office in Charlotte. "We take that transportation part seriously.""
https://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-terror-checkpoints-20111220,0,3213641.story
Like I've said,  security is big money nowadays.  You've got people selling x-ray machines, cameras, scanners, and all sorts of high-tech gizmos,  and they'll keep finding new places for them.  Plus,  you've got all of those ass-hats with the TSA that'd be unemployed if they actually perfected their job.  That's the problem dubbing something a war if there aren't any negative consequences.  There's no incentive to actually win the silly things when you can just go on fighting it indefinitely. 
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Offline Scheavo

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1362 on: January 05, 2012, 05:32:06 PM »
2012 shouldn't be about the middle class, it should be about people under 35.

Offline Riceball

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1363 on: January 05, 2012, 07:12:52 PM »
2012 shouldn't be about the middle class, it should be about people under 35.
:tup
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Offline antigoon

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1364 on: January 10, 2012, 08:03:22 AM »
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand Obama appoints yet another Wall Street goon to his cabinet.