Author Topic: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2  (Read 333595 times)

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Online Adami

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1785 on: June 19, 2012, 03:34:21 PM »
Mubarak is not dead, SCAF has been cooking this up for a while so he'd be taken out of Egypt.

........he's not dead? Alrighty then.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1786 on: June 19, 2012, 04:25:05 PM »
Mubarak is not dead, SCAF has been cooking this up for a while so he'd be taken out of Egypt.
I was curious if that was a possibility.  The man's health crashed really hard and with spectacular timing.  Seems like if it's a scam they should have drawn it out a bit longer.  Looks kind of obvious at the moment.

Personally, I don't care as long as he's officially declared dead so I get my points.
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Offline Progmetty

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1787 on: June 19, 2012, 11:36:50 PM »
I think he will be, it missed this time but they were trying. It will work next time.
I wouldn't want somebody with 18 kids to mow my damn lawn, based on a longstanding bias I have against crazy fucks.

Offline wolfandwolfandwolf

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1788 on: June 20, 2012, 07:22:15 AM »
I just read that the father that beat to death a man sexually assaulting his young daughter won't be indicted.  It's a good thing when the system works.

Offline El Barto

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1789 on: June 20, 2012, 07:56:32 AM »
I just read that the father that beat to death a man sexually assaulting his young daughter won't be indicted.  It's a good thing when the system works.
I didn't have a problem with what happened, but I didn't like the way it was covered or the way people were so thrilled about it.  Since nobody ever mentioned the nature of the alleged assault, we don't really have any way of knowing if it was actually justified.  And whether the guy deserved it or not, I don't consider it a happy outcome when somebody's beaten to death by an angry farmer.  Though occasionally understandable, mob justice isn't really a good thing.

Like I said, I would have probably voted to no-bill the guy as well, but it certainly exposed a couple of sorrier aspects about life in these here United States. 
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Offline El Barto

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1790 on: June 25, 2012, 02:23:27 PM »
With all the discussion about US vs. Arizona, lost in the mix is that John Roberts joined with the majority on all parts.  Alito also supported shooting down the ID provision.  I still think Alito is a lost cause, but I've said all along that Roberts isn't the rubber stamp they want him to be. 

The scary part is that three of those assholes think a law that requires US citizens to carry papers on them at all times is valid. 
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Offline Scheavo

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1791 on: June 25, 2012, 02:40:34 PM »
This law makes the perfect kind of fucked up federal logic this country is built on. The police can check the papers, they just can't do anything about it. And the Feds have authority over the punishment for this kind of thing. Unless I'm misunderstanding the ruling, it almost seems... logical. I mean, so what if the police can ask for your papers, it doesn't have any actual consequences, does it?

Stripped of everything else in the bill, that one provision seems rather impotent. Unnecessarily, useless, stupid, but completely impotent.


Offline El Barto

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1792 on: June 25, 2012, 02:54:26 PM »
Federal logic?  It's Arizona's law, not the US's.  Frankly, it's their fault for passing a law that doesn't reconcile with the current version of the Constitution. 
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Offline Scheavo

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1793 on: June 25, 2012, 06:19:10 PM »
Err by law, I meant federal decision. The fact that they let the police check for papers and legal immigration status, they just don't get them the power to do anything about it.

Offline AcidLameLTE

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1794 on: June 27, 2012, 06:14:22 AM »
« Last Edit: June 27, 2012, 07:12:52 AM by AcidLameLTE »

Offline Super Dude

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1795 on: June 27, 2012, 06:43:32 AM »
I don't suppose you have a higher resolution for that? I can't see Massachusetts' poverty rate.
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Offline AcidLameLTE

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1796 on: June 27, 2012, 07:13:49 AM »
Edited my post with the original image. You better be happy because it took me all of 1 minute to find that website.

Offline Super Dude

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1797 on: June 27, 2012, 07:15:52 AM »
I'm not happy. I'll never be satisfied until the greedy capitalist class is brought to their knees.
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Offline AcidLameLTE

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1798 on: June 27, 2012, 07:16:26 AM »
D:

Offline Scheavo

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1799 on: June 27, 2012, 10:38:42 AM »
The only thing I take issue with, is how much we should even call this Capitalism. Capitalism is about taking capital and investing it into new means of production, and thereby growing the economy (least, that's what I remember about the little bit of Adam Smith I read). That's not even close to what this country does now.

But that's a minor, somewhat semantical point. I get what the person means, and I couldn't agree more.

Offline pogoowner

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1800 on: June 27, 2012, 01:41:42 PM »
What's the definition of "poverty?" Or "near poor?" Because I have a feeling I'll disagree with it.

Offline El Barto

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1801 on: June 27, 2012, 01:52:41 PM »
What's the definition of "poverty?" Or "near poor?" Because I have a feeling I'll disagree with it.

Persons in
family/household    Poverty guideline
1    $11,170
2    15,130
3    19,090
4    23,050
5    27,010
6    30,970
7    34,930
8    38,890
For families/households with more than 8 persons,
add $3,960 for each additional person.
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Offline Sigz

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1802 on: June 27, 2012, 01:57:16 PM »
Holy shit, that's even lower than I thought it was.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1803 on: June 27, 2012, 02:07:57 PM »
Yeah, I couldn't imagine having to make do on that.  The cheapest, crackhouse apt down here is about $325/month.  Another $135 in utilities.   After taxes, that's nearly half your salary just for housing. 
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Offline pogoowner

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1804 on: June 27, 2012, 03:06:16 PM »
Yeah, I couldn't imagine having to make do on that.  The cheapest, crackhouse apt down here is about $325/month.  Another $135 in utilities.   After taxes, that's nearly half your salary just for housing. 
It is doable... UNLESS something goes wrong unexpectedly (medical bill, car breakdown, etc.).

But yeah, that actually is much lower than I expected.

Offline Super Dude

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1805 on: June 27, 2012, 03:44:53 PM »
I feel for people hovering just above the poverty line. From what accounts I've read, they're poor enough to be one unexpected calamity away from eviction, but too "well off" to apply for welfare programs of any kind.
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Offline Scheavo

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1806 on: June 27, 2012, 04:10:33 PM »
Yeah, I couldn't imagine having to make do on that.  The cheapest, crackhouse apt down here is about $325/month.  Another $135 in utilities.   After taxes, that's nearly half your salary just for housing.

And if you're a young student, add in another $200-$300 in student loan bills.

Offline antigoon

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1807 on: June 27, 2012, 07:42:29 PM »
Well...tomorrow's gonna be interesting.

Offline El Barto

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1808 on: June 27, 2012, 08:11:58 PM »
Indeed.  I'm really torn on the whole thing.  I think it's a lousy plan, and I won't be sorry if it gets shot down.  At the same time there are aspects of it that genuinely help a lot of people, and I'd hate to see them fall victim to senseless partisan bullshit.  Add to that, most of the criticism is totally misguided and really reflects one the things I hate most about shallow and simple-minded Americans. 

The flip side is that I think there's a reasonable chance it stands up.  I really don't know what Scalia or Roberts will do on this one.  My hunch is that if the conservative bloc shoots down the individual mandate, they'll whack the whole bill.  I don't really see it as their responsibility to so such a thing, and nor should the people who bitch and moan about judicial activism, but I can see them taking the in for a pound approach.  It's the same knuckle-headed business as Bush v. Gore.
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Offline antigoon

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1809 on: June 27, 2012, 08:44:29 PM »
I'm conflicted for the same reasons. I'd kinda like to see it scrapped so it can be done again some time in the future the right way. But, as you said, it really is helping people. Tough.

Here's my wacky prediction:

Upheld, 6-3. Roberts writes the majority opinion. 

Offline Super Dude

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1810 on: June 28, 2012, 05:32:09 AM »
Yeah, sorry to say but I'm in it for the senseless partisan bullshit. :lol
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Offline El Barto

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1811 on: June 28, 2012, 08:03:11 AM »
Yeah, you're gonna get a helluva lot of it coming up.  That's really my biggest annoyance about the whole thing, more than what it actually means.  We're gonna get 3 days of non-stop gloating and whining from people with invalid opinions based more on bullshit than fact. 
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Offline El Barto

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1812 on: June 28, 2012, 08:17:52 AM »
Looks like Roberts was the swing vote to uphold it in full.  Torn on the outcome, but happy about how it came to be.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1813 on: June 28, 2012, 08:33:36 AM »
It would appear that the conservatives voted en masse that the entire thing was unconstitutional. The liberals said it was valid under commerce and under taxation. Roberts as the swing vote upheld it under taxation, but not commerce. Pretty entertaining outcome.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1814 on: June 28, 2012, 08:34:48 AM »
Oh yeah, and Stolen Valor was shot down, as well.  Doubt we'll see as much coverage on that one, but it's good thing that it happened. 
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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1815 on: June 28, 2012, 09:41:36 AM »
From the Texas Republican Part Platform (PDF):

Quote
Knowledge-Based Education – We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority


lol
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Offline Scheavo

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1816 on: June 28, 2012, 11:42:18 AM »
It would appear that the conservatives voted en masse that the entire thing was unconstitutional. The liberals said it was valid under commerce and under taxation. Roberts as the swing vote upheld it under taxation, but not commerce. Pretty entertaining outcome.

I found it interesting to hear Roberts say this:

Quote
Chief Justice Roberts added: "It is well established that if a statute has two possible meanings, one of which violates the Constitution, courts should adopt the meaning that does not do so."

The more I think about this, the more comforting, and disturbing, it becomes.

Offline El Barto

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1817 on: June 28, 2012, 11:57:03 AM »
Just skimmed the opinion on Stolen Valor.  The dissenters made a very good argument but based it on a faulty premise.  If there were tangible harm done as a result of the lies told, then a law prohibiting them would be reasonable based on their logic.  However, the harm that's done appears to be entirely emotional.  Frankly, stifling free speech to keep people from getting butt-hurt is about as wrong as it gets. 

BTW, it was another instance of Roberts siding with the left bloc.  This was the third major decision he's blown for the Republicans in as many days.  I'm wondering if he's sought secret service protection yet. 
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Offline antigoon

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1818 on: June 28, 2012, 03:51:51 PM »
So I was half right. I read the complete opinion at work and I found myself hard-pressed to really disagree with any of it.

I think this is the right result.

Offline Scheavo

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Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1819 on: June 28, 2012, 07:17:05 PM »
BTW, it was another instance of Roberts siding with the left bloc.  This was the third major decision he's blown for the Republicans in as many days.  I'm wondering if he's sought secret service protection yet.

Looks like they might try to blame his competence, because he's on medication. Because, ya know, you have to be stupid / incompetent to be a liberal.