Author Topic: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2  (Read 339314 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline antigoon

  • Not Elvis
  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 10293
  • Gender: Male
  • This was a triumph.
Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1575 on: April 23, 2012, 12:58:10 PM »
I didn't really know where to put this, but salon.com's redesign is one of the worst things I've ever seen.

Offline TheVoxyn

  • "The X makes it sound cool"
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 4696
  • Gender: Male
Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1576 on: April 23, 2012, 02:32:43 PM »

Offline Super Dude

  • Hero of Prog
  • DTF.com Member
  • **
  • Posts: 16265
  • Gender: Male
Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1577 on: April 26, 2012, 06:16:54 PM »
Before coming to this board, I never realized how fucked humanity is.
Quote from: bosk1
As frequently happens, Super Dude nailed it.
:superdude:

Offline antigoon

  • Not Elvis
  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 10293
  • Gender: Male
  • This was a triumph.
Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1578 on: April 26, 2012, 06:18:09 PM »
lol

were you that sheltered?

Offline snapple

  • Dad-bod Expert
  • Posts: 5144
  • Gender: Male
Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1579 on: April 26, 2012, 06:23:21 PM »
The best part is that you really can't do anything.

Well, you can vote. But, really you can't do anything.

Offline Scheavo

  • Posts: 5444
Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1580 on: April 26, 2012, 06:46:12 PM »
The best part is that you really can't do anything.

Well, you can vote. But, really you can't do anything.

You can move to where there's less people.

Offline snapple

  • Dad-bod Expert
  • Posts: 5144
  • Gender: Male
Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1581 on: April 26, 2012, 06:48:16 PM »
Even things like gas prices you can't do shit about. Well, unless you don't use a car. But I live in Michigan. Try biking everywhere all the time.

Offline Super Dude

  • Hero of Prog
  • DTF.com Member
  • **
  • Posts: 16265
  • Gender: Male
Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1582 on: April 26, 2012, 06:49:29 PM »
lol

were you that sheltered?

Apparently. Or in denial. Since encounters on the internet remove even a shadow of a doubt.
Quote from: bosk1
As frequently happens, Super Dude nailed it.
:superdude:

Offline Scheavo

  • Posts: 5444
Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1583 on: April 26, 2012, 06:59:45 PM »
But I live in Michigan. Try biking everywhere all the time.

Well I would say move to a place where you can, I did. But that's not very practical.

Offline Super Dude

  • Hero of Prog
  • DTF.com Member
  • **
  • Posts: 16265
  • Gender: Male
Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1584 on: April 26, 2012, 07:07:07 PM »
Or institute a workable train system, like this one guy wants to do:

https://www.fwrail.org/

Note: Nothing on that website is real. The guy made it out to be what the railway system might look like if it did end up becoming a reality. Pretty cool imo.
Quote from: bosk1
As frequently happens, Super Dude nailed it.
:superdude:

Offline GuineaPig

  • Posts: 3754
  • Gender: Male
Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1585 on: April 26, 2012, 07:43:28 PM »
Or institute a workable train system, like this one guy wants to do:

https://www.fwrail.org/

Note: Nothing on that website is real. The guy made it out to be what the railway system might look like if it did end up becoming a reality. Pretty cool imo.

That isn't even all that well-designed a hypothetical system.  No through-running, no clockface scheduling, no electrification, push-pull trainsets instead of multiple units, etc.

This is a good article on what the basics of such a system should be.
"In the beginning, the universe was created. This made a lot of people very angry, and has been widely regarded as a bad idea."

Offline Super Dude

  • Hero of Prog
  • DTF.com Member
  • **
  • Posts: 16265
  • Gender: Male
Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1586 on: April 26, 2012, 07:58:53 PM »
Well excuuuuuse me, Mr. Particular. :P

Yeah, I dunno enough about trains to judge really, but I'd still love to see the idea come to fruition.
Quote from: bosk1
As frequently happens, Super Dude nailed it.
:superdude:

Offline Scheavo

  • Posts: 5444
Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1587 on: April 26, 2012, 09:29:13 PM »
Or institute a workable train system, like this one guy wants to do:

https://www.fwrail.org/

Note: Nothing on that website is real. The guy made it out to be what the railway system might look like if it did end up becoming a reality. Pretty cool imo.

Ya, but people suck, and unless you're Warren Buffet or Bill Gates, that's not something you can "just do."

Offline Super Dude

  • Hero of Prog
  • DTF.com Member
  • **
  • Posts: 16265
  • Gender: Male
Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1588 on: April 26, 2012, 09:31:50 PM »
Oh yeah I know, but it's not like it's "just" this one guy. I seem to remember a friend of mine from non-profit group Summer in the City saying that they would in the future try to arrange with GM to have them lift the prohibition on the installation of a railway system. It might not be much, but it'd be a start.

BTW Scheavo, where did you originally hail from?
Quote from: bosk1
As frequently happens, Super Dude nailed it.
:superdude:

Offline GuineaPig

  • Posts: 3754
  • Gender: Male
Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1589 on: April 26, 2012, 09:33:50 PM »
Or institute a workable train system, like this one guy wants to do:

https://www.fwrail.org/

Note: Nothing on that website is real. The guy made it out to be what the railway system might look like if it did end up becoming a reality. Pretty cool imo.

Ya, but people suck, and unless you're Warren Buffet or Bill Gates, that's not something you can "just do."

Lots of cities throughout the world have these things called public transportation agencies.  Many of them are properly funded and administrated.
"In the beginning, the universe was created. This made a lot of people very angry, and has been widely regarded as a bad idea."

Offline Scheavo

  • Posts: 5444
Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1590 on: April 26, 2012, 09:58:56 PM »
Or institute a workable train system, like this one guy wants to do:

https://www.fwrail.org/

Note: Nothing on that website is real. The guy made it out to be what the railway system might look like if it did end up becoming a reality. Pretty cool imo.

Ya, but people suck, and unless you're Warren Buffet or Bill Gates, that's not something you can "just do."

Lots of cities throughout the world have these things called public transportation agencies.  Many of them are properly funded and administrated.

Well, I should say more, current day people suck. Because, as you know, if you propose we update and upgrade those systems, and fund them a little more, nothing happens, or if it does, it takes way longer than it should because people keep wanting to fight it.

Quote
BTW Scheavo, where did you originally hail from?

Well, where I'm back at now. Missoula, Montana.

Offline GuineaPig

  • Posts: 3754
  • Gender: Male
Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1591 on: April 27, 2012, 06:08:28 AM »
Or institute a workable train system, like this one guy wants to do:

https://www.fwrail.org/

Note: Nothing on that website is real. The guy made it out to be what the railway system might look like if it did end up becoming a reality. Pretty cool imo.

Ya, but people suck, and unless you're Warren Buffet or Bill Gates, that's not something you can "just do."

Lots of cities throughout the world have these things called public transportation agencies.  Many of them are properly funded and administrated.

Well, I should say more, current day people suck. Because, as you know, if you propose we update and upgrade those systems, and fund them a little more, nothing happens, or if it does, it takes way longer than it should because people keep wanting to fight it.


Hopefully things will change.  American cities were built on cheap and consequence-free oil.  That doesn't exist anymore.  The next big oil crisis will hopefully be accompanied by a huge push for public transportation.

Many cities have built what is being proposed (a regional rail system) more or less from scratch.  Zürich, for example, has probably the best public transport system in the world, and that stemmed from a decision in the '70s to stop building roads and build an S-bahn instead.  Hell, even Denver is building its own (somewhat flawed, but oh well) rail system from scratch right now.  See Fastracks.
"In the beginning, the universe was created. This made a lot of people very angry, and has been widely regarded as a bad idea."

Offline El Barto

  • Rascal Atheistic Pig
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 30741
  • Bad Craziness
Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1592 on: April 27, 2012, 08:24:03 AM »
Quote
BTW Scheavo, where did you originally hail from?

Well, where I'm back at now. Missoula, Montana.
Nice country.  I'd prefer further West or North, but I'd still be way cool living up there.

To make an effective rail system in this country, if we're to assume it's even possible, would require tremendous oversight from the higher levels.  Exactly the sort of thing that Americans don't tolerate well.  We'd insist on letting the private market do it, which it won't, and wind up with competing formats and an every man for himself design philosophy.  There was a reference in the article GP linked to about the German approach: organization before electronics before concrete.  Absolutely fucking brilliant.  It's something the Europeans could put into practice because they're not terrified of central planning and their end goal is a system that benefits everybody.  Neither of those are philosophies that Americans subscribe to.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline GuineaPig

  • Posts: 3754
  • Gender: Male
Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1593 on: April 27, 2012, 08:45:47 AM »
One of the problems with rail in the US is excessive oversight.  The FRA is a massive bureaucracy who is attempting to preserve their own relevance by imposing dated and terrible regulations on the rail industry, that not only keeps it in the dark ages but also makes it less safe.  This is a good rundown of how bad the FRA is.

Private rail is simply not feasible because there's no way to make it profitable under FRA oversight.  In everywhere else in the world, intercity rail is a profitable enterprise.

As for the "organization before electronics before concrete," American bureaucracies are so self-serving and entrenched (and often corrupt) that they try and do the opposite: concrete solutions first.  Great example: want to bring trains from Long Island into Grand Central?  Let's not share track space with Metro North, because that would mean two separate bureaucracies working together.  Nope, the solution here is to build a $5 billion dollar new station under Grand Central.  Limited space at Penn Station because you have NJ Transit and LIRR terminating there?  Instead of organizing through-running or sharing of space, the solution is to build another huge fucking station when you already have plenty of capacity.  Hell, the main reason that the California HSR alignment is so fucking expensive (though price estimates have come way down from the $100 billion) is that the HSR guys don't want to share tracks, space, platform heights, or even the same signalling as Caltrain.  They'd rather pay out the ass to have it their own way than work together.
"In the beginning, the universe was created. This made a lot of people very angry, and has been widely regarded as a bad idea."

Online Adami

  • Moderator of awesomeness
  • *
  • Posts: 36224
Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1594 on: April 27, 2012, 12:33:53 PM »
This is the only PR thread I'm posting in these days, so I'll ask....


What ever happened to William Wallace? Remember when he was the extremist? He almost looks like a liberal compared to some of the people here now. Amazing stuff.


Also, while every thread is rather entertaining to read.....don't you guys find arguing with some of these people to just be pointless? If so, why do you keep it up?
fanticide.bandcamp.com

Offline El Barto

  • Rascal Atheistic Pig
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 30741
  • Bad Craziness
Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1595 on: April 27, 2012, 12:48:42 PM »
William Wallace is still around.  He seems to spend more time writing professionally than for leisure, though.  And I never thought of him as being particularly extreme.  He's certainly a diehard libertarian, but there are certainly more avid ones.  Braveheart was pretty moderate compared to Job or the newest raving and drooling Libertarian Nick.

As for the current crop of right wingers, there are only one or two that I won't waste my time on.  As long as somebody can craft a reasonable argument, I'm perfectly happy to banter with somebody of whacked out opinions.  Hell, I'm sure they think the same of my ass. 
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline Scheavo

  • Posts: 5444
Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1596 on: April 27, 2012, 12:52:15 PM »
Opinions also change over time, it's not some quick thing. Looking at the heated debates that go nowhere misses the bigger picture.

Offline snapple

  • Dad-bod Expert
  • Posts: 5144
  • Gender: Male
Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1597 on: April 27, 2012, 04:29:59 PM »
eh, I don't have the time or desire to argue with people about politics to the extremes people do here. I once had the passion, but now I hardly give a fuck. Great to read, however.

Offline Super Dude

  • Hero of Prog
  • DTF.com Member
  • **
  • Posts: 16265
  • Gender: Male
Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1598 on: April 28, 2012, 06:00:42 AM »
For you, P/R:

Quote from: bosk1
As frequently happens, Super Dude nailed it.
:superdude:

Offline antigoon

  • Not Elvis
  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 10293
  • Gender: Male
  • This was a triumph.
Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1599 on: April 28, 2012, 06:56:07 AM »
:lol

Offline Scheavo

  • Posts: 5444
Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1600 on: April 28, 2012, 12:53:52 PM »
Quote
BTW Scheavo, where did you originally hail from?

Well, where I'm back at now. Missoula, Montana.
Nice country.  I'd prefer further West or North, but I'd still be way cool living up there.

In terms of geography, you might be right. I'll refrain from quoting A River Runs Through It, but let's just say I'm of the opinion that Missoula is your best bet for people.

Offline Super Dude

  • Hero of Prog
  • DTF.com Member
  • **
  • Posts: 16265
  • Gender: Male
Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1601 on: April 30, 2012, 11:21:21 AM »
My own contribution to the College Liberal meme: https://qkme.me/3p1mvl

Unfortunately it describes a LOT of people at my college. :lol
Quote from: bosk1
As frequently happens, Super Dude nailed it.
:superdude:

Offline antigoon

  • Not Elvis
  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 10293
  • Gender: Male
  • This was a triumph.
Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1602 on: April 30, 2012, 01:33:38 PM »
Here's my slight modification: https://qkme.me/3p1mzn


Online Adami

  • Moderator of awesomeness
  • *
  • Posts: 36224
Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1603 on: April 30, 2012, 09:55:29 PM »
I have to say, as entertaining and intriguing the gay marriage thread originally was, it has become REALLY bad. It's literally Omega repeating himself over and over and over and over and for some reason...some of you guys still try to convince him otherwise.
fanticide.bandcamp.com

Offline Omega

  • Posts: 805
  • Gender: Male
Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1604 on: April 30, 2012, 09:57:27 PM »
I have to say, as entertaining and intriguing the gay marriage thread originally was, it has become REALLY bad. It's literally Omega repeating himself over and over and over and over and for some reason...some of you guys still try to convince him otherwise.

I could say the same thing of the other posters.
ΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩ

Online Adami

  • Moderator of awesomeness
  • *
  • Posts: 36224
Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1605 on: April 30, 2012, 09:59:39 PM »
I have to say, as entertaining and intriguing the gay marriage thread originally was, it has become REALLY bad. It's literally Omega repeating himself over and over and over and over and for some reason...some of you guys still try to convince him otherwise.

I could say the same thing of the other posters.

The only reason their arguments have similarities to one another is because you haven't changed yours in the slightest bit. And they have tried different angles at least. But even if you could say the same thing, why continue? This applies to them too. Why do any of you keep it up at this point? Each of you clearly feel as if you're yelling at a brick wall. At what point does pride blind you to futility? (you being all of you, not just you Omega)
fanticide.bandcamp.com

Offline Super Dude

  • Hero of Prog
  • DTF.com Member
  • **
  • Posts: 16265
  • Gender: Male
Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1606 on: May 01, 2012, 07:52:25 AM »
https://www.bloomberg.com/video/91689761/

Because we should never try to emulate the Benzatine Empire.
Quote from: bosk1
As frequently happens, Super Dude nailed it.
:superdude:

Offline El Barto

  • Rascal Atheistic Pig
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 30741
  • Bad Craziness
Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1607 on: May 01, 2012, 08:27:30 AM »
I have to say, as entertaining and intriguing the gay marriage thread originally was, it has become REALLY bad. It's literally Omega repeating himself over and over and over and over and for some reason...some of you guys still try to convince him otherwise.

I could say the same thing of the other posters.

The only reason their arguments have similarities to one another is because you haven't changed yours in the slightest bit. And they have tried different angles at least. But even if you could say the same thing, why continue? This applies to them too. Why do any of you keep it up at this point? Each of you clearly feel as if you're yelling at a brick wall. At what point does pride blind you to futility? (you being all of you, not just you Omega)
I don't think I've even glanced at the gay marriage thread, but my answer to that is simple.  Convincing others of my beliefs is a secondary goal.  Crafting logical defenses of them or challenging others' beliefs is a valid exercise, regardless of whether or not those others might be receptive of them.   That's why Travis never bother me much.  I'm content to argue for my own benefit while others seem to think it's a competitive sport. 
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Online Adami

  • Moderator of awesomeness
  • *
  • Posts: 36224
Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1608 on: May 01, 2012, 10:39:05 AM »
I have to say, as entertaining and intriguing the gay marriage thread originally was, it has become REALLY bad. It's literally Omega repeating himself over and over and over and over and for some reason...some of you guys still try to convince him otherwise.

I could say the same thing of the other posters.

The only reason their arguments have similarities to one another is because you haven't changed yours in the slightest bit. And they have tried different angles at least. But even if you could say the same thing, why continue? This applies to them too. Why do any of you keep it up at this point? Each of you clearly feel as if you're yelling at a brick wall. At what point does pride blind you to futility? (you being all of you, not just you Omega)
I don't think I've even glanced at the gay marriage thread, but my answer to that is simple.  Convincing others of my beliefs is a secondary goal.  Crafting logical defenses of them or challenging others' beliefs is a valid exercise, regardless of whether or not those others might be receptive of them.   That's why Travis never bother me much.  I'm content to argue for my own benefit while others seem to think it's a competitive sport.

Who's Travis?


Also, I totally get that. But at this point (at least in the gay marriage thread) it isn't about coming up with logical defenses anymore, it's just repeating them over and over and over. It would be like writing a song, yea that's amazingly fun. But playing the exact same song over and over and over and never writing a new one? And not even getting payed to play it? Seems annoying. But if you guys dig it, more power to you.
fanticide.bandcamp.com

Offline Super Dude

  • Hero of Prog
  • DTF.com Member
  • **
  • Posts: 16265
  • Gender: Male
Re: The P/R-side Chat Thread v.2
« Reply #1609 on: May 02, 2012, 07:03:40 AM »
I never thought I'd say this, but this is a brilliantly written Cracked article. Read it all the way to the end, because I think the message at the tail end is pretty important, and I say this knowing that I do that all the time:

https://www.cracked.com/blog/5-ways-to-spot-b.s.-political-story-in-under-10-seconds/
Quote from: bosk1
As frequently happens, Super Dude nailed it.
:superdude: