Train of Thought just kicked by butt . . .

[Vivace]

I think LaBrie sounds awesome on Train of Thought. He's got a very unique voice and it really sucks that some people can't associate it with Metal. His past 2 Solo albums were even heavier, and I think he sounded great on them.

He sounds good on a few parts of ToT. But it has nothing to do with how metal it is. It has to do with who the vocal lines are written for. This is around the time (it seems) that Portnoy and Petrucci started writing their melodies for either themselves or for someone else they imagined. DT haven't seem to be writing to Jame's strength for a long time. Matt on the other hand knows exactly how to write for James.

Interesting. I seemed to remember noticing this myself. That is, just how much Mullmuzzler II and Elements of Persuasion were more to James' style while ToT and Octavarium, although, James was able to deliver, seemed to be written without any input or direction with James in mind. However Train of Thought and Static Impulse are two excellent examples of why I love James Labrie. Give him to chance to sing a genre and he'll not only accept the challenge, but he'll really make it his own.

[wolfking]

Best DT album.

[obscure]

^ I love how our tastes are so much alike 

[wolfking]

^ I love how our tastes are so much alike 

Wow, it's your fav too, that's awesome, our tastes are very, very similar indeed. 

[Dream Team]

It doesn't really click with me, and I don't really like how the metal sound and James Labrie's vocals clash on many of he songs.

I agree with you 100%. It's a combination that just doesn't go well. James' operatic style can go well with other Dream Theater riff driven stuff, just not the most extreme direction of the ToT album. It just sounds awkward. I actually really like the album, but there's always that awkwardness about it.

It's like, you put the disc in, As I Am hits you in the face with this attention-grabbing introduction, all these heavy riffs with detuned (or baritone?) guitars come plowing through and then...this guy with a high register voice starts singing and it takes all the air and energy out of the song. It just doesn't sound right. The songs just demand a different vocal type. It's not his fault or anything he did wrong, he's just not the right vocal type or well rooted enough in that style.

I take it you've never heard of Rob Halford or Bruce Dickinson? What a silly argument.

BTW I never said TOT was a great album or my favorite, I just said it was great for listening to in the car.

[Tis BOOLsheet]

It doesn't really click with me, and I don't really like how the metal sound and James Labrie's vocals clash on many of he songs.

I agree with you 100%. It's a combination that just doesn't go well. James' operatic style can go well with other Dream Theater riff driven stuff, just not the most extreme direction of the ToT album. It just sounds awkward. I actually really like the album, but there's always that awkwardness about it.

It's like, you put the disc in, As I Am hits you in the face with this attention-grabbing introduction, all these heavy riffs with detuned (or baritone?) guitars come plowing through and then...this guy with a high register voice starts singing and it takes all the air and energy out of the song. It just doesn't sound right. The songs just demand a different vocal type. It's not his fault or anything he did wrong, he's just not the right vocal type or well rooted enough in that style.

I take it you've never heard of Rob Halford or Bruce Dickinson? What a silly argument.

BTW I never said TOT was a great album or my favorite, I just said it was great for listening to in the car.

Are you actually comparing what I described to Halford or Bruce Dickinson? LMFAO

Clearly I was not talking ONLY about a high register.

The Halford thing is just so stupid I can't even dignify that with a response. Train of Thought does not sound like Iron Maiden. Those two individuals in their respective bands do not sound like LaBrie and you know it.

[TheGreatPretender]

Are you actually comparing what I described to Halford or Bruce Dickinson? LMFAO

Clearly I was not talking ONLY about a high register.

The Halford thing is just so stupid I can't even dignify that with a response. Train of Thought does not sound like Iron Maiden. Those two individuals in their respective bands do not sound like LaBrie and you know it.

What about Dave Mustaine? Apart from the fact that he has one of the weirdest singing voices in rock music I've heard (it's up there with Geddy Lee), it still goes really well with thrashy, aggressive metal that he does.

To say that any singer "does not fit the genre" is like saying, "All singers of such and such genre should sound alike". It's that kind of close minded thinking that's the reason why there are so many generic, boring metal vocalists out there. Yes, LaBrie singing for the heaviest of DT songs sounds like no other metal we've heard before. And frankly, that's a good thing. He still sounds great and As I Am and Endless Sacrifice are among DT's best songs, Vocals and everything.

[manticore999]

I'm in the minority but, to me, TOT was one of their weakest.  Only above SC but, really, just not something I ever listen to.

[RuRoRul]

Best Dream Theater album 

I second this. Also, This Dying Soul > Endless Sacrifice > Honor Thy Father is a freaking AMAZING three-hit punch.

Indeed - never really see this said since it seems most people have some problem with at least one of those songs, they'd all be in my top 20 though. I do get the criticism that they are all songs of a very similar style and that Train Of Thought is probably about the least varied Dream Theater album, but not being varied isn't a bad thing per se (just as being very varied and having songs of very different types doesn't automatically make an album good) and Train Of Thought is one of those albums where it works out to produce an amazing album, imo.

[Jaffa]

To say that any singer "does not fit the genre" is like saying, "All singers of such and such genre should sound alike".

Nah, not really.  For me, Coheed and Cambria have two things: great music, and cool vocals.  The problem is that the great music and the cool vocals just don't go very well together, for me.  They don't mesh well.  Rather than combining and working together, they just end up distracting me from each other.  Of course, some people adore Coheed and Cambria and think the vocals work perfectly.  So in saying this, I'm not suggesting that their singer should sing in a different band or a different genre, and I'm not saying that the band needs a certain kind of vocalist for their style of music.  I'm only saying that for me, their specific combination of vocals and music simply does not work well.

I don't see why it should be any different for Dream Theater.  I mean, don't get me wrong, I love Labrie's vocals on Train of Thought.  But if someone thinks the songs are ruined by his vocal style, or would be more enjoyable with a different vocal style, I don't have a problem with that.  And I think that's all TisBOOLsheet was saying. 

[TheGreatPretender]

Well, that's all subjective then, isn't it? I thought LaBrie's vocals worked great on ToT. All things considered, he's a very well rounded vocalist. Not everyone could bring the powerful grit AND the high, soaring melodic vocals the way he can. And sure, maybe he couldn't do something like, death metal growls, but that stuff doesn't belong in DT anyway.

And I mean, for songs like As I Am, it's not even THAT heavy. It reminds me of Metallica in early 90's. LaBrie's style fits that just fine.

[Jaffa]

Well, that's all subjective then, isn't it?

Well, yes.  Which is exactly why BOOLsheet is perfectly entitled to his opinion, even though I personally disagree strongly with that opinion.

[TheGreatPretender]

Well, that's all subjective then, isn't it?

Well, yes.  Which is exactly why BOOLsheet is perfectly entitled to his opinion, even though I personally disagree strongly with that opinion.

Well, when someone states their opinion like it's a fact, people are gonna argue.

[SeRoX]

Well, that's all subjective then, isn't it?

Well, yes.  Which is exactly why BOOLsheet is perfectly entitled to his opinion, even though I personally disagree strongly with that opinion.

Well, when someone states their opinion like it's a fact, people are gonna argue.

This is how Boolsheet sounds, imo and that's the problem. He doesn't even agree to disagree at many discussions on the board. His opinions are his facts and unchangeable. I like him but I don't like that kind of attitude.

[Jaffa]

That's fair enough.  I guess my opinion is just that if someone's post would be fine if they included a 'This is all just my opinion, of course' disclaimer, there's probably nothing wrong with their post in the first place. 

[Scorpion]

Jaffa, you are wise beyond your years (I'm guessing that, because you're age isn't displayed, but I'd suspect you to be twenty-something-ish). I really enjoy reading your posts on this forum. Props to that.

On topic: I like JLB in most of the stuff that he has done, but I can understand why people wouldn't. His voice has a rather unique timbre, which some people (like a friend of mine, whom I played DT on the train today) find off-putting.

[TheGreatPretender]

On topic: I like JLB in most of the stuff that he has done, but I can understand why people wouldn't. His voice has a rather unique timbre, which some people (like a friend of mine, whom I played DT on the train today) find off-putting.

Hey, I did too. His voice isn't the most accessible in rock music, but that can be said about Progressive music in general. I had to let it grow on me, but once it did, it really stuck. So I guess in that respect, he's perfect for Progressive music.

[Scorpion]

True. And though others might disagree, I can think of no other prog singer off the top of my head that I like as much as I like LaBrie, though that may be aided by the fact that DT is my favourite prog band in general.

[SeRoX]

Actually, DT is one of the band that stands out with the vocal. His voice is unique and I admit it's not everybody's cup of tea. I mean let's imagine ToT wiith ordinary metal voice. Thanks to that ToT could be the of the good metal album, that's all. Now, it's good or bad, it's open to question but it's completely different which is the main element for progressive music.

[TheGreatPretender]

Actually, DT is one of the band that stands out with the vocal. His voice is unique and I admit it's not everybody's cup of tea. I mean let's imagine ToT wiith ordinary metal voice. Thanks to that ToT could be the of the good metal album, that's all. Now, it's good or bad, it's open to question but it's completely different which is the main element for progressive music.

Exactly. God, I just imagined James Hetfield trying to do As I Am... It'd be like 70% more boring to listen to.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

DOOOON'T-AH
TELL ME WHAT'S IN-AH


...

TAKE ME-AH AS I AAAM-AH

[TheGreatPretender]

DOOOON'T-AH
TELL ME WHAT'S IN-AH


...

TAKE ME-AH AS I AAAM-AH

YEEEE-AH! Oh wait, that's actually in the song. 

[Cable]

Overall, don't like the production, especially the rhythm guitar tone.

Where as that is my favorite JP rhythm tone.  But I am partial to the sounds of a Recto, which is a sometimes polarizing in opinion tone.

[hefdaddy42]

It doesn't really click with me, and I don't really like how the metal sound and James Labrie's vocals clash on many of he songs.

I agree with you 100%. It's a combination that just doesn't go well. James' operatic style can go well with other Dream Theater riff driven stuff, just not the most extreme direction of the ToT album. It just sounds awkward. I actually really like the album, but there's always that awkwardness about it.

It's like, you put the disc in, As I Am hits you in the face with this attention-grabbing introduction, all these heavy riffs with detuned (or baritone?) guitars come plowing through and then...this guy with a high register voice starts singing and it takes all the air and energy out of the song. It just doesn't sound right. The songs just demand a different vocal type. It's not his fault or anything he did wrong, he's just not the right vocal type or well rooted enough in that style.

I take it you've never heard of Rob Halford or Bruce Dickinson? What a silly argument.

BTW I never said TOT was a great album or my favorite, I just said it was great for listening to in the car.

Are you actually comparing what I described to Halford or Bruce Dickinson? LMFAO

Clearly I was not talking ONLY about a high register.

The Halford thing is just so stupid I can't even dignify that with a response. Train of Thought does not sound like Iron Maiden. Those two individuals in their respective bands do not sound like LaBrie and you know it.

Watch your tone.  You are already on thin ice.

[Scorpion]

Given his response in the "More experimental" thread, I doubt that he cares.

Also, I don't feel that LaBrie takes out the energy. Sure, it takes some getting used to, but I think that in the end it all comes to whether you like his voice or not. I think that he is as suited for the ToT songs as he is for the rest of DT's catalogue, and I like most vocal performances that he delivers.

[hefdaddy42]

Given his response in the "More experimental" thread, I doubt that he cares.

Well, that's up to him, and bosky has already addressed that.

[Dellers]

Train Of Thought does what I think The Glass Prison failed to do. It sounds metal, and most of the songs are actually very good.

[BlobVanDam]

The Glass prison didn't fail at anything.

[Dark Castle]

The Glass prison didn't fail at anything.

If anything, it's a much much much much better example of Dream Theater doing heavy metal.

[Scorpion]

TGP is enjoyable, but it never really clicked for me, like for instance ITNOG did.

[TheGreatPretender]

The Glass prison didn't fail at anything.

Except a couple of the lyrics. 

TGP is enjoyable, but it never really clicked for me, like for instance ITNOG did.

I've been really self centered lately... For a moment, I thought you meant that I was enjoyable. Hahaha.

[BlobVanDam]

The Glass prison didn't fail at anything.

If anything, it's a much much much much better example of Dream Theater doing heavy metal.

It is the defining example of DT playing metal perfectly.

[theseoafs]

The Glass prison didn't fail at anything.

It didn't fail at anything. It won at everything. Its wins were so vast and numerous that it retroactively made Burning My Soul OK.

[SystematicThought]

The Glass Prison taught me to appreciate Falling Into Infinity as a whole album

[TheGreatPretender]

The Glass Prison took my virginity... Am I doing this right?