Do you think the new album will be more experimental?

[hefdaddy42]

Probably not. Six Degrees was the last time they even decided to throw curveballs and that was 4 albums ago.

This.  And although there may have been a few twists on SC, I don't see those things as experimental the way that 6D was, especially when talking about the album as a whole.

[Sketchy]

I have to admit that if SC hadn't been the second DT album I'd bought, it would have been a massive curveball for me, but as it was, I hadn't really any ideas of what DT sounded like other than what I'd heard on SFAM.

Admittedly, a lot of the songs have an intro-verse-chorus-verse-chorus-soloing-chorus-outro sort of structure, with TDEN having prechoruses and PoW having that spoken bit rather than a solo. That said, ItPoE has a very non-standard structure, and you've got Repentence, so really, the structure does differ quite a lot, although maybe not curveball structure for DT.

But yes, stylistically, it's pretty unusual. So, I would not be surprised if the next album did have some, or even quite a bit, experimentation. I would be pleasantly unsurprised. That said, I very much doubt it will suddenly turn out to be a dark ambient album. That would be really wierd.

[Pols Voice]

Without thinking about it too much I just found that the album seemed well within the bounds of what they were capable of. I mean they had done the really heavy before so TDEN is not much of a stretch and they had done that synthy Muse type stuff before so POW wasn't much of a stretch. My thoughts on the production aside I just didn't hear anything on the album that made me surprised me. In fact it was probably the first album that made me go "Yep, sounds like a Dream Theater album".

Yup. I don't remember feeling surprised by that album at all. Maybe the lyrics are a bit more zany in places, but otherwise it wasn't a big change.

[robwebster]

I hate to start coming up with that "ah, but what you're really thinking is this" nonsense, because it's so often bollocks, so please do tell me in no uncertain terms if I'm talking out of my arse, here... but could it be, with regard to Systematic Chaos, that it's not so much the case that nothing had changed, as that none of the flaws had been ironed out? So none of the things you wanted to change had changed.

While they're doing barmy rhythmic things with harsh vocals in The Dark Eternal Night and changing up their voice entirely, they're still going on the kinds of musical flights of fancy you might not be fond of, or adhering to the same structure you might be tired of..? Like, could you be focusing on the bits you wish were different but aren't, perhaps? Not saying I'm right - as I said, I actively encourage you to call bullshit, because "you don't think what you think you think!" is the worst kind of passive aggressive blather to receive and you shouldn't stand for it - but I am having real trouble seeing it as anything other than one of the biggest curveballs in the discography, and I'm just trying to... reconcile the two viewpoints.

This is a general "you," by the way. Not specifically aiming this at Pols Voice or hef or orcus or anyone - just the cloud you're all occupying.

[BlobVanDam]

I've wondered the same thing rob, but much like you, I don't want to tell people what they're thinking.
Because I can understand that people felt the song structures were predictable, with verse, chorus, kazoo solo etc, but musically and lyrically the album is such a departure in many ways, and I don't believe that anyone could have listened to SC the first time and thought "yes, I expected them to scream these vocals and write about vampires. This was predictable DT."

[hefdaddy42]

I hate to start coming up with that "ah, but what you're really thinking is this" nonsense, because it's so often bollocks, so please do tell me in no uncertain terms if I'm talking out of my arse, here... but could it be, with regard to Systematic Chaos, that it's not so much the case that nothing had changed, as that none of the flaws had been ironed out? So none of the things you wanted to change had changed.

While they're doing barmy rhythmic things with harsh vocals in The Dark Eternal Night and changing up their voice entirely, they're still going on the kinds of musical flights of fancy you might not be fond of, or adhering to the same structure you might be tired of..? Like, could you be focusing on the bits you wish were different but aren't, perhaps? Not saying I'm right - as I said, I actively encourage you to call bullshit, because "you don't think what you think you think!" is the worst kind of passive aggressive blather to receive and you shouldn't stand for it - but I am having real trouble seeing it as anything other than one of the biggest curveballs in the discography, and I'm just trying to... reconcile the two viewpoints.

This is a general "you," by the way. Not specifically aiming this at Pols Voice or hef or orcus or anyone - just the cloud you're all occupying.

BULLSHIT


Love ya, rob. 

[orcus116]

I hate to start coming up with that "ah, but what you're really thinking is this" nonsense, because it's so often bollocks, so please do tell me in no uncertain terms if I'm talking out of my arse, here... but could it be, with regard to Systematic Chaos, that it's not so much the case that nothing had changed, as that none of the flaws had been ironed out? So none of the things you wanted to change had changed.

While they're doing barmy rhythmic things with harsh vocals in The Dark Eternal Night and changing up their voice entirely, they're still going on the kinds of musical flights of fancy you might not be fond of, or adhering to the same structure you might be tired of..? Like, could you be focusing on the bits you wish were different but aren't, perhaps? Not saying I'm right - as I said, I actively encourage you to call bullshit, because "you don't think what you think you think!" is the worst kind of passive aggressive blather to receive and you shouldn't stand for it - but I am having real trouble seeing it as anything other than one of the biggest curveballs in the discography, and I'm just trying to... reconcile the two viewpoints.

This is a general "you," by the way. Not specifically aiming this at Pols Voice or hef or orcus or anyone - just the cloud you're all occupying.

I just think the degree at which the things people are claiming are new on that album and within those songs in particular aren't really drastic enough to be considering experimental. Experimental to me is going completely out of your element or far enough where a fan my raise an eyebrow. TDEN might be something out of the norm if they hadn't already devoted an entire album to the heavier, chunkier, darker sounding metal side they're capable of doing. I mean if you want to name off individual techniques within the song as something new go for it but I feel like you'd be splitting hairs at that point because DT have already done heavy and dark stuff. With that line of thinking you're almost bound to come up with something new or newish per song but it really doesn't stray outside the band's comfort level when you take a step back.

[Jaffa]

TDEN might be something out of the norm if they hadn't already devoted an entire album to the heavier, chunkier, darker sounding metal side they're capable of doing.

I guess this is where I'll have to agree to disagree.  For me, TDEN sounds very little like anything on Train of Thought. 

[Ultimetalhead]

Really, TDEN is pretty different to the heavier stuff on Train of Thought. It's a bit, dare I say, zanier. Train of Thought in general is a fairly serious album.

[Adami]

TDEN was as experimental for Dream Theater as The Thing That Should Not Be was for Metallica.

[robwebster]

I hate to start coming up with that "ah, but what you're really thinking is this" nonsense, because it's so often bollocks, so please do tell me in no uncertain terms if I'm talking out of my arse, here... but could it be, with regard to Systematic Chaos, that it's not so much the case that nothing had changed, as that none of the flaws had been ironed out? So none of the things you wanted to change had changed.

While they're doing barmy rhythmic things with harsh vocals in The Dark Eternal Night and changing up their voice entirely, they're still going on the kinds of musical flights of fancy you might not be fond of, or adhering to the same structure you might be tired of..? Like, could you be focusing on the bits you wish were different but aren't, perhaps? Not saying I'm right - as I said, I actively encourage you to call bullshit, because "you don't think what you think you think!" is the worst kind of passive aggressive blather to receive and you shouldn't stand for it - but I am having real trouble seeing it as anything other than one of the biggest curveballs in the discography, and I'm just trying to... reconcile the two viewpoints.

This is a general "you," by the way. Not specifically aiming this at Pols Voice or hef or orcus or anyone - just the cloud you're all occupying.

BULLSHIT


Love ya, rob. 

Hahaha, had to ask!

Naw, it sounds - taking into account orcus' post too - that we're probably just looking at it from different angles. While I will insist that the changes are very dramatic aesthetically, and that most of the songs just plain wouldn't fit in on any other album,* I would also completely agree that there's not much that's new in the DNA. It's a unique face, but entirely the same Dream Theater.


*TDEN isn't just heavy and dark - heck, I'd say it's not dark in the least - but it is sludgey, and grimy, and the percussive distorted vocals are an absolute bolt from the blue. Miles away from any of their previous songs - makes Misunderstood sound safe.