The Yes Discography: Mirror to the Sky (2023)

[lonestar]

I was ok with Big Generator, but it was when I realized it wasn't old Yes, and started to miss it. I think a lot of that was because I was really discovering prog at this time, via IQ and Marillion, and was hungry for more. Kinda funny how I had grown up on Yes since I was seven, but had to wait till I was 19 to classify them as prog.



On a sidenote, Holy Lamb is an incredibly beautiful song. 

[Orbert]

Holy Lamb is cool, but it seems to end too quickly.  It's so mellow, then it ends and I go "Wait... that's it?"

[lonestar]

Really, I think it's a perfect build up to the final line,  then draws out calmly.  Love it.

[King Postwhore]

Final Eyes is the best song on the album.  I can play that over and over.  Never getting sick of it.

[Orbert]

Really, I think it's a perfect build up to the final line,  then draws out calmly.  Love it.

I must listen again, paying more attention this time.

[FreezingPoint]

FreezingPoint, feel free to post more.  Your views on 80's Yes and later are interesting to me and probably others since you didn't grow up with the older proggy stuff the way we did, and thus don't have that bias.  I liked what you said about Going for the One and how some of it seemed to foreshadow what the individual players would go on to do with other bands.

And of course more prog fans, especially Yes fans, are always welcome around here! ♫♫

Thanks. I will try to post a bit more as well.

I think that given when I was born and all, the way I got into Yes was perfect. First came the 80s stuff (with ABWH and Union), then the modern era (The Ladder was the first Yes album I actually remember coming out) and then into the Classic era, though I was listening to some of the Classic era "hits" before I really got into the whole albums. I think that it worked well because the modern songs can be a springboard for the earlier prog songs and accessible from the 80s era as well. It is funny, what I think also helped is that even though I was just getting into Yes in the late 90s and early 2000s, I never really thought at the time that it sounded 80s or dated or anything like that. I wasn't really aware of the differences between the decades of music, probably because I was still young and had limited musical experience.

Also, to those who are interested, check out Trevor Rabin's album 90124. It contains demos and such from the Rabin era and it is fascinating to listen not only to the changes in production, but to the changes in the actual songs themselves. I have heard some people complain about the "I eat at chez nous" line in Love Will Find A Way. It wasn't in the demo. The chorus in Changes was also a bit different. I am not sure how I feel about this one, because I feel the demo chorus is pretty good too.

[Orbert]

The very existence of 90124 seems to be evidence that Cinema, later Yes, was Trevor's band, his vehicle.  Sure, the songs went through some changes on the way, but it's clear that the album was mostly written prior to Cinema.  It's been said that all three Rabin-era albums were basically solo albums with Yes as the backup band, but it's usually disgruntled Yes fans saying it; I wouldn't go that far.  But it still seems like Trevor was the leader of that band, and no one will come right out and say it.

I've never had a problem with "I eat at chez nous".  First time I heard it, I heard something that rhymed and couldn't tell what he'd said.  But since the words are all pretty clear on that album, it obvious to me that it was French or something.  Turns out I was right, and later I learned that "chez nous" just means "my house".  I eat at my house.  Yeah, pretty lame there, Trevor.  But whatever.  It rhymes, and since it's French, it's cool, right?

Really, I think it's a perfect build up to the final line,  then draws out calmly.  Love it.

I must listen again, paying more attention this time.

Okay, I listened again, and my impression is still the same.  It's a nice song, no doubt, but it seems to just get going, then it fades out.  It just seems like there was going to be more to the song, but someone made the decision to fade it out instead.

Even if the lyrics were done and they'd said all they were going to say verbally, musically it feels incomplete somehow.

[Jaq]

Will this thread cover the Anderson Bruford Wakeman Howe album? I haven't listened to that in YEARS and might dig it out if it's going to be covered.

[Nel]

Will this thread cover the Anderson Bruford Wakeman Howe album? I haven't listened to that in YEARS and might dig it out if it's going to be covered.

I do consider it a Yes album, at any rate.

As for 90125 and Big Generator... not much to say. Don't like either. Not that I can't get into that style, but I don't really like any of that material. Actually, I'll just save a post and say besides a few passable tracks on Union and Talk ("Real Love" is awesome, as are parts of the suite at the end), I don't really like anything Yes did again until Magnification. ABWH and the 90s albums are all either reeeaaally cheesy or boring, and while KtA's studio tracks tried to do everything in the vein of 70s Yes, none of it really does that for me.

So with that out of the way, see you for Magnification... I guess?  I just don't want to fill up the next few album discussions with negativity.

[Orbert]

Will this thread cover the Anderson Bruford Wakeman Howe album? I haven't listened to that in YEARS and might dig it out if it's going to be covered.

ABWH is next.  I started off trying to include at least brief notes about solo albums and the various other projects that Yes members were doing, and how they fit into things chronologically, but I realized that I'd eventually have to include dozens of other albums along the way.  I was going to give Asia and bands like GTR some time, but it was getting awkward trying to fit everything in, ultimately there would have been more side material than Yes.  So I cut back on that.  But I'd always intended to include ABWH, and also An Evening of Yes Music Plus, especially because of the way they dovetail into the Union album.

As for 90125 and Big Generator... not much to say. Don't like either. Not that I can't get into that style, but I don't really like any of that material. Actually, I'll just save a post and say besides a few passable tracks on Union and Talk ("Real Love" is awesome, as are parts of the suite at the end), I don't really like anything Yes did again until Magnification. ABWH and the 90s albums are all either reeeaaally cheesy or boring, and while KtA's studio tracks tried to do everything in the vein of 70s Yes, none of it really does that for me.

So with that out of the way, see you for Magnification... I guess?  I just don't want to fill up the next few album discussions with negativity.

Thanks for being considerate.  Usually I prefer it if people keep negative thoughts to themselves, especially in "appreciation" threads and such, where the whole idea is to celebrate something.  Someone coming in and saying "nah, it sucks" is such a downer.  But I'm looking for all kinds of feedback here, and if there are certain Yes albums that you don't like, I'm curious as to why.  As long as you give reasons why, I would consider it negative feedback, not just negativity.  And as I said, I'm looking for all kinds of feedback.

I personally am not a huge fan of the 80's Yes, either.  I've been trying to be fair and point out the positive, while at the same time pointing out things that weren't so great.

[6sAllTheWay]

Cool thread. It has inspired me to try and get into Yes. Which album would you guys recommend as a good starting point? It seems Fragile and Close To The Waters Edge is the most popular ones..

[KevShmev]

Any chance Trevor's Can't Look Away will be covered? Considering he was the dominant Yes writer from 1983-1994, it would make sense to include the one solo album he released during that time period, no? 

[Orbert]

I thought about it, but I don't think I have a copy.  I remember hearing it years ago, and there was that one single, but I think I borrowed it from a friend when I was living in Maryland.

[Orbert]

Cool thread. It has inspired me to try and get into Yes. Which album would you guys recommend as a good starting point? It seems Fragile and Close To The Waters Edge is the most popular ones..

Start with The Yes Album, then proceed to Fragile, then Close to the Edge.  In that way, you can hear the start of the classic Yes sound and follow it through its early stages, and decide how to proceed from there.

[Orbert]

Anderson Bruford Wakeman Howe (1989)


(Front and back covers -- click front for full painting)

Jon Anderson - Lead Vocals
Bill Bruford - Acoustic and Electronic Drums
Steve Howe - Guitar
Rick Wakeman - Keyboards

Augmented by:
Tony Levin - Bass, Stick, Vocals
Matt Clifford - Keyboards, Programming, Orchestration, Vocals
Milton McDonald - Rhythm Guitar

Backing Vocals:
The Oxford Circus Singers - Deborah Anderson, Tessa Niles, Carol Kenyon, Frank Dunnery
J.M.C. Singers - Jon, Matt, Chris
Emerald Community Singers, Montserrat

----------

Themes
  i. Sound
  ii. Second Attention
  iii. Soul Warrior
Fist of Fire
Brother of Mine
  i. The Big Dream
  ii. Nothing Can Come Between Us
  iii. Long Lost Brother of Mine
Birthright
The Meeting
Quartet
  i. I Wanna Learn
  ii. She Gives Me Love
  iii. Who Was the First
  iv. I'm Alive
Teakbois
Order of the Universe
  i. Order Theme
  ii. Rock Gives Courage
  iii. It's So Hard to Grow
  iv The Universe
Let's Pretend

----------

Jon Anderson was never completely happy with Big Generator.  He felt that it lacked something which a Yes album should have, in terms of the lyrics and the message they convey, and the music itself.  Trevor Rabin had come to see himself as leader of the band, taken the tapes back to L.A., and completed production of the album himself in his home studio.  There's no question that the writing on 90125 and Big Generator is mostly Trevor's, and that those albums mostly reflect his vision, but Trevor always points out that that band was not originally supposed to be Yes in the first place.  Chris Squire was also not getting along with Jon during this time.  Ultimately, Jon left Yes after the Big Generator tour.  He wanted to make music which was more like his vision of Yes, not like what Yes had become in the 80's.

He contacted former Yesmen Bill Bruford, Rick Wakeman, and Steve Howe about a new project.  It started as a solo album, but it eventually became more collaborative, and they needed a name for this new band.  They also needed a bassist.  Bill suggested Tony Levin, with whom he had worked in the very successful 80's King Crimson lineup.

For name recognition, they went with Anderson Bruford Wakeman Howe for both the band and the album.  They also contacted artist Roger Dean, whose distinctive style would provide visual assocation with Yes, and his painting "Blue Desert" became the cover art for the album.

It's hard to say what makes a Yes album sound like a Yes album.  Fans of the classic 70's Yes albums know that there is something, but can never quite agree on what it is.  But if it includes long songs divided into movements with little Roman numerals, Jon Anderson's unique voice, lyrics that don't always make literal sense but sound nice and have great imagery, and instrumental sections featuring Steve Howe's guitar, Rick Wakeman's keyboards, or both, then this album delivers on all counts.  They had succeeded in producing an album similar to 70's Yes, but with an updated sound.

It is not a perfect album.  It had been over ten years since Jon, Rick, and Steve had played together, over 15 since they had played with Bill, and in that time they had each expanded their musical repetoires in different ways.  Jon's taste for World Music, for example, is evident in "Teakbois".  Bill's electronic drums are also new, but Bill is quick to point out that this is not a Yes album.  He's gone on record saying that he signed on for a Jon Anderson solo project, and was actually disappointed when Steve and Rick were later added to the project.  Not because he didn't like playing with them, but because he really wanted to do something new, not just rehash Yes.

Bill: "There was a moment somewhere around ABWH when it was no longer Jon's thing.  He started it and when he came to my house I thought he was inviting me to play on a solo album...  Well, that was a little window of opportunity that lasted ten minutes before it slammed shut."

Steve: "ABWH wasn't made of people who were desperate to call themselves Yes.  It was more made up of a band, that at least Bill and I felt was a new band and we could not rest totally on the old material."

Rick: "For some unknown reason this particular combination of musicians is quite frightening.  It's weird, because Jon, Bill, Steve, and I only actually played together for two and a half years.  But during that period we were four-fifths responsible for Fragile, Close to the Edge, and a considerable amount of Yessongs.  That's pretty terrifying."

Jon: "It was a great album to make here -- you feel the energy."

Trevor Rabin: "I bought the ABWH album and just enjoyed it.  I didn't listen to it under any other terms."

Chris Squire: "I wasn't that impressed."

[Orbert]

Well, I was impressed.  I still remember browsing CDs in the store and seeing this one, with the obviously Dean font and cover art, and I knew in a moment exactly what it was.  It was the "real" Yes and their answer to what had been coming out for several years now under the name Yes.  Or something like that.

Let's be clear: 90125 and Big Generator are not bad albums.  They're not bad music at all.  In listening to them again for this discography, I was reminded how much I liked 90125, and surprised how much more I like Big Generator than I did in the 80's, when I listened to it and dismissed it as not "real Yes".  They have a lot of great music, and they introduced a new generation of people to Yes.

But hardcore fans of the early 70's progressive Yes sound had been hoping and wishing that something like this would happen, and it did.  If only Chris Squire had played on this album, then it would have been a complete reunion of The Fragile Five.  But there was no way that that was going to happen, so this is the closest we were going to get.  And for many, it did the trick.  It filled the need.  Also, Tony Levin is an excellent bassist, and the Stick adds a little something that helps us not miss Chris Squire's bi-amped Rickenbacker sound quite so much.

I'll admit that there are times when it seems that they're trying too hard to be Yes, despite all claims to the contrary.  No fewer than four songs broken up into movements with Roman numerals.  "Quartet" actually includes quotes from several classic Yes songs.  The cover and font were no coincidence.  Jon admits that he wanted to make Yes music again, Steve and Bill say they wanted to do new things, and Rick plays both sides.

But for most Yesfans, this is a Yes album in all but name, and I agree, so I've included it.

[The Letter M]

Even though I do enjoy it enough to include in my personal Yes Discography, I don't really listen to it much. From 90125 to Talk, there's a peak of uninterest with ABWH that then goes back down as we approach Talk.

90125 > BG > ABWH < Union < Talk (< Keystudio)

There's a few MOMENTS on the album that I enjoy, but I've really not listened to it enough to really have a good grasp on every part of it. I should really revisit it sometime soon. I may go on a Yes-binge in the coming weeks as my Rush-binge is slowly slowing down (which I have been on since the beginning of June).

-Marc.

[Jaq]

I pulled this out yesterday when I heard that it would get covered, first time I've played it in a long time, and I had a couple of thoughts about it. The first was I liked it a LOT more than I used to, when I dismissed it as being four guys from Yes doing their level best to deny they were Yes...while trying very hard to be Yes. The second was...holy christ, you can tell this was recorded in the 1980s, can't you? At the time, all the guys experimenting with electronic drums-Bruford, Phil Collins, Neil Peart, and so on-sounded interesting and modern. These days every hit on the electronic snare yells "80s!" at you, and that isn't helped by Wakeman's keyboard sounds, which feel equally lost in around 1985 or so. I feel like a more organic sounding album, more analog, would have helped me here. But honestly, this album is really hampered by how the band's conflict over how much like Yes they wanted to be. Personally I think they should have just jumped in with both feet myself; there's some ideas on here that could have led to a classic Yes album, but they kind of get lost along the way. But given that the first time I heard it way back when I was terribly disappointed, I guess its a win for the album that these days I actually like it.

[Perpetual Change]

Anderson Bruford Wakeman Howe is just too much for me, but some of it is really good. I absolutely loathe "Themes" and "Fist of Fire", so I've never enjoyed the album out of the gate, but I think there are some good things going on in "Brother of Mine" and then "Birthright". "Order of the Universe" is a pretty good closer, too.

Overall, ABWH for me is the inception of what I don't really like about modern Yes. When I listen to stuff like "Lightning Songs" on The Ladder, and wonder wtf is going on, I look back to ABWH and find out there. The weird combo of Yes' 70s progressive style with world and newage started there, and I've never liked it very much.

I'll also add that AWBH music makes me think of tropical islands.

[KevShmev]

Even though they are both a bit strange in the context of music that is all but Yes, Wakeman's oddball keyboard sounds and Bruford's electronic drums work well on this album more often than not.  I have always loved Birthright, and Themes, Fist of Fire and Brother of Mine are all really good as well.  Order of the Universe starts off great, but kind of runs out of gas, and the vocal hooks aren't strong enough.  The rest of the songs never made much of a dent for me, except for the comedic factor at the beginning of Teakbois, which used to give my younger brother and me a good laugh (Teakbois!! ).  Overall, a good album, and I see the appeal of it for Yes prog fans at the time who were craving prog out of them again.

[Sketchy]

Love this album. Especially The Order Of The Universe. It frequently just pops up  in my head for no reason and stays there for hours.

[King Postwhore]

I remember hearing Brother Of Mine on the radio and then getting the album to find out it was 5 minutes longer than the radio version.  Great tour.  I saw them in a venue in Boston that's second to none for acoustics, the Wang Center.  Just loved hearing these songs live.

[Orbert]

I had a co-worker who just happened to mention to me one day that he'd gone to a concert the other night.  A bunch of guys from Yes were out touring and calling it "An Evening of Yes Music".  I asked him if it was Anderson, Bruford, Wakeman, and Howe.  He said he thought so.  The singer sounded like the guy from Yes.  He knew almost nothing about them, but went because a friend of his had tickets.  I couldn't believe it.  He had no idea that I was a Yes fan, and I had no idea that they were touring.  I almost wanted to strangle him on the spot, but needed to perform a mind-meld first and get the concert out of his memory banks.  I never figured out how to do that, so I had to let him live.

Man, how did we even survive without the Internet and instant access to all information back then? 

[KevShmev]

THe best thing about that Evening with Yes Plus video was:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBhpHuv-t-Q

 

[FreezingPoint]

The ABWH album is quite good, with the first half being brilliant. However, I don't find Teakbois and Order of the Universe as good as the other songs. I used to like Order of the Universe much more, but somehow over time it just became kind of flat for me and I don't listen to it much as much anymore. The Meeting though, is such a beautiful song and I've always enjoyed Birthright and Brother of Mine as well. Fist of Fire is one song which has grown on me through the years.

One of my favorite things about this album is that it is completely unique and is kind of the odd man out in this Yes era. It certainly is 80s, it is very Yes-ish, but I would not quite describe this album as 80s Yes. That connotation is more reserved for the poppier, more Rabin led albums of the era. It could be argued that Union is sort of similar, but according to Wikipedia, the material was reworked for Union. I would have liked to hear a second album from the group, and I wonder how much and what material and in what form actually made it onto Union. (Actually, I just searched and found out that there are some demos floating around out there, called Dialogue I think.)

Also, the first DVD we ever purchased as that Evening of Yes Music Plus. It was so great. I remember that it was a double sided DVD. I especially loved Bruford's Simmons SDX drum kit and Wakeman's solo.

[Jaq]

I'm armed and ready for the next two albums, since I dug around one of my older computers and dug up a bootleg from the Union tour and one from the Talk tour. And also found a few other Yes bootlegs too...yeah this is going to be fun.

[Orbert]

You'll have to chill just a bit longer.  I'm hitting the ABWH live album An Evening of Yes Music Plus next.  But I'm glad you're getting ready.  One of the reasons I did this was to give people a reason to revisit their Yes albums.

[ytserush]

I don't have a problem with 80s Yes or Anderson, Bruford, Wakeman and Howe. (It might be my favorite Wakeman-Yes album.)

[Jaq]

You'll have to chill just a bit longer.  I'm hitting the ABWH live album An Evening of Yes Music Plus next.  But I'm glad you're getting ready.  One of the reasons I did this was to give people a reason to revisit their Yes albums.

Actually I also have a bootleg from that tour too...which I totally forgot I had until today 

[Orbert]

Crap.  I was nearly done with my writeup for An Evening of Yes Music Plus when I realized that it was not released until after Union.  Since I'm going chronologically in order of release, not of recording, it goes on a shelf for now.

Union is up next, after all.  But I have some listening to do first.

[Jaq]

No worries, just gives me an excuse to play that Union tour bootleg I found again. 

[Orbert]

Union was the one and only time I got to see Yes, and it was amazing.  All eight of them, in the round.  Most of them hated the album, mostly because of how it came about and how it was executed (more on that to come) and the fan reaction to it was also not great, but the concerts were incredible, and both the band and the fans seem to agree on that.

[lonestar]

I gotta give the nod to the Masterworks tour(Rituals, CTTE,Gates all in one show), but the reunion tour was a strong second.

[Orbert]

One of my friends saw the Masterworks tour.  I was pissed when I found out.  He knows what a huge Yes fan I am, and he didn't even call me when he got tickets.  He said he didn't think I'd drive over from Chicago, so he didn't bother.  Asshole.  I would have.  One big reason I don't go to concerts is because I never have anyone to go with.  I would've driven five hours to hang with him and catch the concert.

I consoled myself by reminding myself that Rick Wakeman wasn't with them; they still had Igor Khoroshev on keys.  I heard he did a great job "being" both Wakeman and Moraz, but ultimately I go to concerts to see certain performers, not certain songs, so I guess I'm okay with missing out on Masterworks.

[Perpetual Change]

Passed Yes up last time I had the chance to see them with Anderson. And now I'm hating myself for it.

As far as Union goes, it's probably my least favorite album from what I've heard. I'll write more after Orbert updates this though,