Author Topic: After watching When Dream and Day Reunite  (Read 11621 times)

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Offline The Letter M

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Re: After watching When Dream and Day Reunite
« Reply #35 on: May 20, 2012, 09:34:17 PM »


That being said, I think I actually prefer WDADU to WDADRU.  Maybe if they did a proper remake, a polished studio album with JLB on vocals, it would be different.  But just having heard the live version... I don't know.  Don't get me wrong, I consider JLB to be the superior vocalist, but CD's vocals suit most of the songs better, in my opinion.  Especially on Afterlife.  I honestly find it difficult to listen to the WDADRU version of Afterlife.

I sort of see what you are saying, but my beef with WDADRU is JR overplaying some of the keyboard parts, which takes away from the melodic nature of them.  I get him wanting to put his own spin on them, but Moore's original parts were so perfect that I just hate seeing them messed with at all.

Do you have the same beef with the IAW 15th Anniversary show from Bonn, Germany?

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Offline KevShmev

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Re: After watching When Dream and Day Reunite
« Reply #36 on: May 20, 2012, 09:45:24 PM »
I don't think I've ever heard or seen that performance.

Offline The Letter M

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Re: After watching When Dream and Day Reunite
« Reply #37 on: May 20, 2012, 09:57:30 PM »
I don't think I've ever heard or seen that performance.

It was released through the DTIFC a couple years ago, and it's a great sounding show too, but if you're not a fan of "Surrounded '07", then you probably won't like the show as it includes THAT version of the song, although I enjoy having a different version than the 2 featured on CIM's video and audio releases. However, in 2007, JLB did since the "pensive fear" verse for "Take The Time" during the 15th Anniversary performances, so at least TTT is the complete performance on that release.

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Offline KevShmev

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Re: After watching When Dream and Day Reunite
« Reply #38 on: May 20, 2012, 10:18:53 PM »
I'll stick with the original version of I&W, thank you. :biggrin:

Offline Ruba

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Re: After watching When Dream and Day Reunite
« Reply #39 on: May 21, 2012, 01:08:06 AM »
WDADU is my 4th favourite DT album. I've seen some songs from WDADR, and I don't really care for James's vocals in Light Fuse and Get Away. Other songs had better. I prefer Dominici on those songs, except Another Hand/The Killing Hand on Live at the Marquee. For pretty same reasons than Paul Di'anno/Phantom of the Opera < Bruce Dickinson/Phantom of the Opera/Live After Death.
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Offline ?

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Re: After watching When Dream and Day Reunite
« Reply #40 on: May 21, 2012, 02:32:08 AM »
WD&DU is an overlooked gem - it IS immature at times, but they were already very talented for their age and LF&GA is the only song I'm not keen on. I'd take the youthful energy of WD&DU over the uninspired SC any day.

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Re: After watching When Dream and Day Reunite
« Reply #41 on: May 21, 2012, 02:47:59 AM »
The songs from WDADU are easily my least favorite out of DT's catalog. They are amateur and unprofessional, IMO.

I agree. And it goes well beyond just the vocals and production. In fact, I was surprised when I first listened to the album because they're not *that* bad. I mean, they're not what I would call good, but they wouldn't be a deal breaker if the songs were great.

But the songwriting is amateur, which is totally understandable considering their age. The vocal melodies show poor phrasing throughout (and not just in OAMOT, which is obviously the weakest in that regard), a lot of the parts don't fit together that well (just listen to the Score version of Afterlife and hear how much that bassline completely clashes with the main riff in places), and they weren't natural with their use of time sigs and tempo changes as they were on IaW.
That's not to say the album is a complete loss; Afterlife is overall a pretty good song even as is on the album, Ytse Jam works really well, and AFIL and TKH are redeemable with JLB on the mic, but the rest are a little embarrassing.
The difference in quality between WDADU and IaW is night and day. What a transformation in songwriting ability in the few years between the two. For me WDADU will always be considered a demo, in the same category as the Majesty demos. There are some neat ideas, and in retrospect you can hear hints of what was to come, but it has many more misses than hits.
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Offline nikatapi

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Re: After watching When Dream and Day Reunite
« Reply #42 on: May 21, 2012, 04:33:55 AM »
I still prefer the original WDADU to WDADR, i like CD's voice more in these songs and also i dig the production. It is raw and the bass is amazing.
To be honest i don't like WDADR, there is something about James' voice in these songs that feels strange, and there is no breathing space between the instruments.
I'm obviously one of the few that like the original better, but i feel it is a great album and Charlie does a good job with the vocal lines he was given.

Offline ronrule

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Re: After watching When Dream and Day Reunite
« Reply #43 on: May 21, 2012, 08:13:30 AM »
I can't listen to this album. It's bad. I think the blame lies more with the vocal melodies, not the delivery or production, which I believe Charlie wrote? It doesn't have Petrucci's sense of melody.

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Re: After watching When Dream and Day Reunite
« Reply #44 on: May 21, 2012, 11:17:05 AM »
Great album, though I rarely listen to it. The second half of the album is pure genius, from TKH on. I'm not too keen on the tracks before, but still, it's incredible for a debut. I'd probably rank it somewhere on par with BC&SL, above SC and 8VM. Maybe on par with ADTOE, though I'm not too sure on that one.
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Offline krands85

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Re: After watching When Dream and Day Reunite
« Reply #45 on: May 21, 2012, 03:31:27 PM »


That being said, I think I actually prefer WDADU to WDADRU.  Maybe if they did a proper remake, a polished studio album with JLB on vocals, it would be different.  But just having heard the live version... I don't know.  Don't get me wrong, I consider JLB to be the superior vocalist, but CD's vocals suit most of the songs better, in my opinion.  Especially on Afterlife.  I honestly find it difficult to listen to the WDADRU version of Afterlife.

I sort of see what you are saying, but my beef with WDADRU is JR overplaying some of the keyboard parts, which takes away from the melodic nature of them.  I get him wanting to put his own spin on them, but Moore's original parts were so perfect that I just hate seeing them messed with at all.

Do you have the same beef with the IAW 15th Anniversary show from Bonn, Germany?

-Marc.
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Offline Ħ

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Re: After watching When Dream and Day Reunite
« Reply #46 on: May 23, 2012, 09:26:33 PM »
What a transformation in songwriting ability in the few years between the two.
Seriously.
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Offline theGonz

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Re: After watching When Dream and Day Reunite
« Reply #47 on: May 24, 2012, 01:56:17 PM »
"Pensive fear"? which part of the song is that?
*epic instrumental section*

Offline ResultsMayVary

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Re: After watching When Dream and Day Reunite
« Reply #48 on: May 24, 2012, 01:58:33 PM »
"Pensive fear"? which part of the song is that?
Take The Time.
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Offline cosmicwxdude

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Re: After watching When Dream and Day Reunite
« Reply #49 on: May 24, 2012, 07:58:49 PM »
I've seen DT 5 times (6th coming up :metal), and own all of their lps (cds for you youngsters) but have never considered this one for some reason. I've heard of few of the songs off this lp by the current line up of course but never have been inclined to by this one. 

My top 5

1. ADTOE
2. 6DOIT
3. Awake
4. BCSL
5. Scenes

Yep, that's right I like ADTOE best.   I enjoy each lp but it really comes down to song by song for me.  I think most DT lps have at least 2 excellent songs,  several pretty damn good ones and a couple that I usually pass by,  but ADTOE has the 'most' excellent to pretty damn good songs of any lp of their's followed closely by 6doit and  Awake (1st one I ever got). 

My top 10 DT songs in no particular order and at the top of my head at this point in time:

bridges in the sky,  change of seasons,  hells kitchen,  octavarium,  6doit (the suite), learning to live, strange deja vu,  the mirror,  ITPOE1, sacrificed sons.

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Offline 7thHanyou

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Re: After watching When Dream and Day Reunite
« Reply #50 on: May 25, 2012, 10:35:04 AM »
It's an amazing album in it's own right, and I definitely rank it in the top half of their discography.  Production aside, I actually like the "immaturity" of the song writing; the band had so much passion for their music back when they were that young, and they were obviously very happy to be making their first real album.  While a bit of compositional maturity certainly helped them on I&W, Awake and Scenes, they also lost a lot of their enthusiasm and spontaneity, and starting with 6DOIT, their albums gradually became more and more sterile and clinical, until the line-up change necessitated by MP's departure and the subsequent shift in the internal creativity of the band rejuvenated their musicality a bit.  Overall, I absolutely love the album for what it is; a snapshot of the band in their most immature, and therefore most creatively fertile and energetic, form.

This, almost exactly.

I can't conjure up much enthusiasm for most of DT's discography after SfaM, excepting Octavarium and ADToE; WDaDU floors me with the sheer exuberance conveyed in each song. It doesn't outrank the subsequent four albums for me, but it's easy to see how they follow it.

I rank it with In the Court of the Crimson King, The Light, Kansas, Ecliptica, and Iron Maiden as one of the best debuts I've heard.  It's not as good as any of those, but like them, it's among the best in its band's catalog and far from a misstep. I wouldn't have minded it one bit as an intro to Dream Theater... Though SfaM was a more than suitable one for me.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2012, 10:45:21 AM by 7thHanyou »

Offline Lowdz

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Re: After watching When Dream and Day Reunite
« Reply #51 on: May 25, 2012, 11:27:41 AM »
I can certainly understand how people hearing the album for the first time years later than release would struggle with it a bit. At the time I'd never heard anything like it. I loved Rush, Maiden, Yngwie and the shredders, and this album married all that together.

Offline 7thHanyou

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Re: After watching When Dream and Day Reunite
« Reply #52 on: May 25, 2012, 11:33:43 AM »
I can certainly understand how people hearing the album for the first time years later than release would struggle with it a bit. At the time I'd never heard anything like it. I loved Rush, Maiden, Yngwie and the shredders, and this album married all that together.

For the record, I'd never even heard of DT till 2005, when a friend annoyed me into buying SfaM. First heard WDaDU in 2008ish and never struggled with it. I like it to this day.

Good music is good music. It'd be a shame for someone not to enjoy it simply because they heard it a few years after its release.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: After watching When Dream and Day Reunite
« Reply #53 on: May 25, 2012, 11:48:14 AM »
It's an amazing album in it's own right, and I definitely rank it in the top half of their discography.  Production aside, I actually like the "immaturity" of the song writing; the band had so much passion for their music back when they were that young, and they were obviously very happy to be making their first real album.  While a bit of compositional maturity certainly helped them on I&W, Awake and Scenes, they also lost a lot of their enthusiasm and spontaneity, and starting with 6DOIT, their albums gradually became more and more sterile and clinical, until the line-up change necessitated by MP's departure and the subsequent shift in the internal creativity of the band rejuvenated their musicality a bit.  Overall, I absolutely love the album for what it is; a snapshot of the band in their most immature, and therefore most creatively fertile and energetic, form.

This, almost exactly.

Yep.

And to expand on that a little bit, most bands (see: not all) write and produce their best music early in their careers, simply because musicians almost always produce their best music when they feel they have something to prove, and I think it goes without saying that every musician in the world feels like they have something to prove when making their first record.  Factor in the youthful, raw energy plus years of creative juices coming to fruition on a single album, and it is not hard to see why so many debut albums are so good, including Dream Theater's.

Offline SnakeEyes

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Re: After watching When Dream and Day Reunite
« Reply #54 on: May 25, 2012, 11:59:14 PM »
The funny thing is that, songwriting-wise, it has just as many classics on it and just as many debatable songs as their newer (or, at least later stuff).  For example, I think most people would agree that Fortune in Lies, Ytse Jam and Killing Hand (and, arguably Afterlife) are DT classics.  That's three (four if you count Afterlife) songs from the album.  Nearly half the album.  Out of the remaining songs:

Status Seeker - I personally like it and I see more apathy toward it than hatred.  For most, "it's okay." 
Light Fuse and Get Away - good ideas, badly executed.  General negative feeling toward the song from most fans, from what I observe. 
Ones Who Help to Set the Sun - I love this song.  Generally mixed from most, I think.
Only a Matter of Time - Eh, indifferent.  It kind of drags on and on and never goes anywhere, in my opinion.  Generally positive feelings from most fans, I think, but poor vocal phrasing brings it down. 

I think if I did this with Train of Thought, there would be A LOT more negativity.  At least on my end.  LOL   .... I'd rather hear better songs with a more average singer and bad production with a few rough spots in the songwriting than a polished album of rushed songwriting that doesn't really go anywhere at all and won't even be remembered by most fans in ten years. 
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Re: After watching When Dream and Day Reunite
« Reply #55 on: May 26, 2012, 03:09:55 AM »
I think if I did this with Train of Thought, there would be A LOT more negativity.  At least on my end.  LOL   .... I'd rather hear better songs with a more average singer and bad production with a few rough spots in the songwriting than a polished album of rushed songwriting that doesn't really go anywhere at all and won't even be remembered by most fans in ten years. 


LOL. ToT is still remembered and liked just as well as ever, meanwhile WDADU is already largely ignored or forgotten by many fans.

In the case of WDADU, "classic" just means early, not necessarily good. Ytse Jam is cool, but the rest are just far too flawed to ever be ranked as unquestionable classics like other older songs like Metropolis/LTL/TTT, which consistently rank very high with most DT fans. I can't say the same for anything from WDADU.

Songwriting-wise, WDADU is just by far their weakest album imo. The best songs are only decent at best, and the worst songs are literally unlistenable to me. I'm talking so bad that it makes never Enough sound like UAGM by comparison. :lol So for me it's half awful, and half ok.
ToT has nothing even close to that bad. The first 4 tracks have very mixed opinions, but a lot of fans love them, and the last 3 tracks are regarded quite highly overall. Nothing on the album comes close to the overwhelmingly negative opinions of several songs on WDADU.

As much as some people would love to explain WDADU's poor reputation entirely away by the raw production, or the less than stellar vocals, that's just wishful thinking for the most part, and insulting to all the fans who gave it a fair chance, and just think it's a weak album. Even with the songs existing in other forms such as WDADRU, or LATM, I don't see fans going nuts for it.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: After watching When Dream and Day Reunite
« Reply #56 on: May 26, 2012, 06:37:15 AM »
The difference in quality between WDADU and IaW is night and day.
This, definitely.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: After watching When Dream and Day Reunite
« Reply #57 on: May 26, 2012, 08:17:19 AM »


As much as some people would love to explain WDADU's poor reputation entirely away by the raw production, or the less than stellar vocals, that's just wishful thinking for the most part, and insulting to all the fans who gave it a fair chance, and just think it's a weak album. Even with the songs existing in other forms such as WDADRU, or LATM, I don't see fans going nuts for it.

Eh, I think you are seeing what you want to see.  The live version of The Killing Hand from LATM has always been loved by a lot of fans, and Only a Matter of Time got tons of positive feedback when it was included on the Budokan DVD.  Those are two examples. 

Besides, whenever heavy criticism has been directed at songs like The Dark Eternal Night and Constant Motion, you have always been adamant that the fans on message boards only represent a tiny portion of the fanbase, so the overall opinions should never be considered as definitive when it comes to the fans' overall opinions of Dream Theater albums and songs, right?  So, if you really are seeing that fans don't go nuts over it here, then it doesn't matter since this is only a tiny portion of the fanbase and it doesn't really say anything anyway, right? :P

Also, I looked at RYM to see what the album rankings were from each DT album.  WDADU does sit at the bottom with a rating of 3.02, but the live WDADR has a rating of 3.44, which puts it higher than the last four albums (including ADTOE), so see, improve the vocals and the sound (the live sound is usually not better, but in the case of WDADU's weak production, the live sound in this case is better), and the rating suddenly goes up .42.  Kind of blows a hole in your theory that fans as a whole dislike it for more than just the vocals and production, no? :)

And before you dismiss RYM, or say that it just one site's ratings opinion, the jump at Prog Archives from WDADU to WDADR is even more significant (3.23 to 4.13), so I think we are seeing that fans as a whole do seem to like WDADU, especially once the sound and vocals are much improved. We can even give a sliver of credit to your favorite musician ever, Jordan Rudess, if you want ;), since him being on the live versions and Kevin Moore playing on the original, is really the only other significant difference.

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Re: After watching When Dream and Day Reunite
« Reply #58 on: May 26, 2012, 08:57:15 AM »
TKH is a song that always had the potential, and for me it's biggest drawback was always just the vocal melodies, especially the outro (and I'm not just talking Charlie's weak and laughable vocals). TKH from Marquee deserves to get a bit more love because JLB's powerful vocals and changes to melodies really redeem that one real weakness of that song.
TKH is one of my favourites on WDADU, but only the Marquee version due to the fixed melodies, but that song has always been clearly one of the better songs from WDADU anyway. It is due to swapping vocalists, but there's also a lot more to it than simply swapping A for B and repeating.

And when I say fans don't go nuts for it, I'm certainly not talking just here. I mean... everywhere. None of the DT fans I know in real life give the slightest care for WDADU, it's a small group here, and RYM as you've pointed out supports that too. It's a minority no matter which way you wanna slice it as far as I can see. Meanwhile, I know a lot of people who love SC, and the crowds clearly love SC/TDEN. So I actually wasn't factoring in DTF's opinion at all here. ;)

And let's keep in mind that WDADRU includes two extra songs that weren't on WDADU, including what is arguably their most popular song among fans, and one of their most played live songs, Metropolis. Plus there's the big jam section with DS/JR in the middle. It's not WDADU + JLB. It's WDADU + JLB + highly popular song from IaW in badass fresh arrangement + song from Awake.
And as you're always so quick to point out, JR completely changes a lot of those keyboard section, plus JLB changes melodies, plus there are several changed or additional sections to the WDADU songs. Pretty careless to try and apply a direct A/B comparison here. ;)

I have no doubt that the production and vocals are a barrier for some people, and I won't argue that it probably is a factor of why it gets a higher rating. But there is still a hell of a lot more wrong with WDADU than the production and vocals. You've raised valid points, but you're also ignoring several others factors in all cases to suit your own point.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: After watching When Dream and Day Reunite
« Reply #59 on: May 26, 2012, 01:36:31 PM »
Well, most of the DT fans I know in real life think WDADU is quite good (albeit not nearly as good as I&W, FII, Scenes and 6DOIT, and ADTOE for a few of us), and better than most of their post-6DOIT albums, so we could go round and round with this all day. :biggrin:

Yes, WDADR does have two songs that aren't a part of the original WDADU, but it is still a pretty valid comparison.  If most thought WDADU was crap, they aren't gonna give a high rating to WDADR, regardless of how much ass To Live Forever and Metropolis with CD and DS kicked.

Honestly, I think longtime fans are much more likely to like it than fans have got into the band in the later years.  It's some type of psychology thing about fans always wanting the new stuff that came out when they became a fan to be the best or their favorite or whatever.  Kind of like the tons of guys I worked with in the 90s who all got into Metallica in the 90s, most of whom thought The Black Album and Load were their best albums, because, ya know, those were the newest albums when they became fans.  It happens all of the time.  It has happened to me, too, so I am not immune to it.  Something about us always wants the new albums by bands we just got into to be the best ones.  That is not meant to say that newer fans are incapable of objectively judging (as much as one can) the old stuff, just that there is a line of thinking in all of us that wants the albums that were new at the time when we got into the band to be the best.

Offline SnakeEyes

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Re: After watching When Dream and Day Reunite
« Reply #60 on: May 26, 2012, 06:26:38 PM »
Quote
LOL. ToT is still remembered and liked just as well as ever, meanwhile WDADU is already largely ignored or forgotten by many fans.

That's not a fair thing to say, though.  By the time Train of Thought came out, DT was already well established and had produced a bunch of albums that were already being compared to WDADU.  I'd say that forums like this one give new fans (and, even old fans who never really checked out WDADU) a negative feeling toward it and that thing kind of sticks.  When you go to a forum and a bunch of people are saying, "that album sucks," you're going to get that stuck in your head and have a bad opinion of it before you even give it a chance. 

I have been listening to DT since 1992, first heard WDADU around 1996 or 1997 and bought Train of Thought when it first came out in 2003.  I'll only speak for myself here:  I think WDADU is a FAR better album, songwriting-wise than ToT and has held up way better.  WDADU was a band making sincere, genuine music.  Flawed, yes, but genuine.  ToT, on the other hand, was the beginning of "poser-DT" -- i.e., DT trying to be all "heavy" and "tough."  I think As I am and Honor thy Father are terrible songs and that most of the songs on WDADU are better than those two alone.  And, I think Ytse Jam is a WAY better instrumental than SoC.   

Quote
In the case of WDADU, "classic" just means early, not necessarily good. Ytse Jam is cool, but the rest are just far too flawed to ever be ranked as unquestionable classics like other older songs like Metropolis/LTL/TTT, which consistently rank very high with most DT fans. I can't say the same for anything from WDADU.

So, "classic" only means "early, not necessarily good" in the case of DT?  LOL 

And, I wasn't comparing WDADU to Images, I was comparing it to newer DT music, hence why I brought up Train of Thought.  I think WDADU sounds pretty similar to Images, so there's no use "comparing" it.  The only difference is the production, the singing (which is the same style, just better with James) and more polished arrangements.  Stylistically, it's pretty much exactly the same. 

Quote
Songwriting-wise, WDADU is just by far their weakest album imo.

That's fine, that's your opinion.  I personally think ToT and SC are the weakest albums in that area. 

Quote
The best songs are only decent at best, and the worst songs are literally unlistenable to me. I'm talking so bad that it makes never Enough sound like UAGM by comparison. :lol So for me it's half awful, and half ok.

Really?  You don't think Fortune in Lies and Afterlife are just completely, ridiculously awesome?  I do....

Quote
As much as some people would love to explain WDADU's poor reputation entirely away by the raw production, or the less than stellar vocals, that's just wishful thinking for the most part, and insulting to all the fans who gave it a fair chance, and just think it's a weak album. Even with the songs existing in other forms such as WDADRU, or LATM, I don't see fans going nuts for it.

I'm not trying to explain its poor reputation with those things.  I'm saying that people who don't like the album give it a bad name and people who know it's kind of the bastard of the band's albums pretty much don't give it the chance that it deserves.  I honestly think that if WDADU came out now, in 2012 and had James singing on it with better production and some tweaking in the songwriting/ arrangement, it wouldn't be NEARLY as criticized.  That's kind of my point.   
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Offline ?

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Re: After watching When Dream and Day Reunite
« Reply #61 on: May 27, 2012, 02:08:03 AM »
Songwriting-wise, WDADU is just by far their weakest album imo. The best songs are only decent at best, and the worst songs are literally unlistenable to me. I'm talking so bad that it makes never Enough sound like UAGM by comparison. :lol So for me it's half awful, and half ok.
Replace WDADU with SC and you have my opinion :lol Well, the worst songs on SC aren't completely unlistenable for me but I hardly ever have the desire to listen to them and I think they're some of the worst DT stuff ever, whereas I could listen to Status Seeker and TOWHTSTS any time and enjoy them - two very underrated songs. But as always, opinions vary etc...
I honestly think that if WDADU came out now, in 2012 and had James singing on it with better production and some tweaking in the songwriting/ arrangement, it wouldn't be NEARLY as criticized.  That's kind of my point.
I agree on this - if WD&DU was released today as a modern studio version or if it had been the breakthrough album that I&W ended up being, it would be held in higher regard.

Online BlobVanDam

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Re: After watching When Dream and Day Reunite
« Reply #62 on: May 27, 2012, 02:27:58 AM »
Yes, WDADR does have two songs that aren't a part of the original WDADU, but it is still a pretty valid comparison.  If most thought WDADU was crap, they aren't gonna give a high rating to WDADR, regardless of how much ass To Live Forever and Metropolis with CD and DS kicked.

Honestly, I think longtime fans are much more likely to like it than fans have got into the band in the later years.  It's some type of psychology thing about fans always wanting the new stuff that came out when they became a fan to be the best or their favorite or whatever.  Kind of like the tons of guys I worked with in the 90s who all got into Metallica in the 90s, most of whom thought The Black Album and Load were their best albums, because, ya know, those were the newest albums when they became fans.  It happens all of the time.  It has happened to me, too, so I am not immune to it.  Something about us always wants the new albums by bands we just got into to be the best ones.  That is not meant to say that newer fans are incapable of objectively judging (as much as one can) the old stuff, just that there is a line of thinking in all of us that wants the albums that were new at the time when we got into the band to be the best.

I've noticed this phenomenon works both ways. ;) The fact that IaW and Awake still get high praise from fans young and old seems to blow that notion out of the water here though.


I honestly think that if WDADU came out now, in 2012 and had James singing on it with better production and some tweaking in the songwriting/ arrangement, it wouldn't be NEARLY as criticized.  That's kind of my point.
I agree on this - if WD&DU was released today as a modern studio version or if it had been the breakthrough album that I&W ended up being, it would be held in higher regard.

Except that WDADU could never have been a breakthrough album, because it just wasn't anywhere near good enough. WDADU doesn't have a PMU, or an Another Day. Even just thinking that to myself, it is astounding that the same band who was writing such flawed music as OAMOT and Light Fuse and Get Away was writing such well crafted songs like Another Day only a couple of years later. Absolutely astounding. Not even the same band to me.


I'm not trying to explain its poor reputation with those things.  I'm saying that people who don't like the album give it a bad name and people who know it's kind of the bastard of the band's albums pretty much don't give it the chance that it deserves.  I honestly think that if WDADU came out now, in 2012 and had James singing on it with better production and some tweaking in the songwriting/ arrangement, it wouldn't be NEARLY as criticized.  That's kind of my point.   

Every hear the phrase "you can't polish a turd"? If you want to believe that the album would get more praise if it was recorded nicely, I can't prove otherwise, because it's a speculative case anyway, so we're just arguing opinions. But I believe that under any circumstances, it would still thoroughly earn its spot at the bottom of the barrel.
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Offline goo-goo

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Re: After watching When Dream and Day Reunite
« Reply #63 on: August 09, 2018, 07:17:52 AM »
Just revisited the WDADRU Official bootleg this morning. Loved that old DT sound, which I'm glad the band brought back in some of ADTOE and DT12. That way DT pulls off the Rush influence is amazing.
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Offline pg1067

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Re: After watching When Dream and Day Reunite
« Reply #64 on: August 09, 2018, 10:53:13 AM »
Since someone else resurrected this old thread...

I bought WDaDU after seeing my first DT show in November 1992 and really digging "The Killing Hand" (a performance very similar to what's on Live at the Marquee).  I've always been a big fan of TKH and "Only a Matter of Time," and "Ytse Jam" is an incredible instrumental -- especially for a brand new band.  The more "commercial" songs ("A Fortune in Lies," "Status Seeker" and "Afterlife") are ok but rather derivative (not surprising for a new band), and I've never been a big fan of LFaGA and TOWHtStS.  If WDaDU had been an EP with only YJ, TKH and OaMoT, I'd give it 4.5 stars, but on the whole I'd give it around 3 stars.

As far as WDaDRu, it's kinda cool, but I tend to agree with Blob's assessment that tends to expose the album's shortcomings.  I also find WDaDRu more enjoyable for the band commentary than for the set itself (although I do enjoy it when Charlie and Derek come on stage, even though Charlie doesn't sound great).
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Offline ytserush

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Re: After watching When Dream and Day Reunite
« Reply #65 on: August 11, 2018, 09:16:33 AM »
It's a fun nostalgic romp and I'm glad it was done, but I'm way more attached to the original album.

Charlie wasn't the right guy for the band, but I think he was the right guy for the album, even if he had trouble getting it done live.

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Re: After watching When Dream and Day Reunite
« Reply #66 on: August 12, 2018, 05:20:55 PM »
I need to watch it again.  It's been quite awhile.  I was at the show, 3rd row just left of center.  I remember taking a buddy I work with who I had introduced to DT.  He was still really new to DT and we had an idea of what was being played on the tour...then the second half of the show happened.. :lol  My buddy was like.. what frikken album is this?  I actually felt a lil bad for him not knowing any of that material.  For me though I LOVED it!  Never expected that to happen, especially the Encores!

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Re: After watching When Dream and Day Reunite
« Reply #67 on: August 16, 2018, 03:56:01 PM »
I am a big fan of this release but view it more as a documentary of a band reflecting on and paying homage to a notable period in their history. When I try and view it solely as a concert film, I can't appreciate it nearly as much.
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Offline Trav86

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Re: After watching When Dream and Day Reunite
« Reply #68 on: August 17, 2018, 06:15:23 AM »
Its cool. But, I would prefer a remixed, and remastered version of the original. Like the Terry Brown remixes for the Status Seeker and Afterlife singles.  Those sound pretty damn good.
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Offline jammindude

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Re: After watching When Dream and Day Reunite
« Reply #69 on: August 17, 2018, 09:52:05 AM »
Its cool. But, I would prefer a remixed, and remastered version of the original. Like the Terry Brown remixes for the Status Seeker and Afterlife singles.  Those sound pretty damn good.

If the original stems even still exist (which I highly doubt) I would pay big bucks just to see it re-EQed from scratch.

Has anyone ever really done that? So many 80s recordings were so “tinny” that it would be interesting to back to the original bass and drum tracks and re-equalize them completely to make them “beefier”...not just a volume increase, but an actual bass level increase to give it a bit more low end.
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