Author Topic: Individual Rights & National Interest  (Read 1728 times)

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Offline soundgarden

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Individual Rights & National Interest
« on: May 10, 2012, 08:55:05 AM »
I am working on a study on obesity and a proposal that came up is to have mandatory BMI tests in schools as part of the physical education program and this question popped up.  Obesity is a clear, and the health problems are becoming increasingly numerous.  I have several sources that state by 2030, our GDP spending would be upwards of 30% on just health care costs**; of which a large portion are due to physical and mental health problems due to obesity. (Also, that statistic does not include preventive health care programs)

There are proposals out there to help with this problem; such as removing all sugar based products from school or requiring a maximum sugar content on certain products; indirectly forcing people onto a particular diet.

Individual right is paramount, but if a large percentage of those individuals begin to threaten (inadvertently, of course) the economic stability or competitiveness of the nation how far is the government allowed to step in?

**extremely inefficient and wasteful healthcare at that

Offline rumborak

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Re: Individual Rights & National Interest
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2012, 09:01:27 AM »
In before the inevitable "BMI sucks!!" posts. (it doesn't suck if used properly)

IMHO it is perfectly fine to "design" schools to provide a healthy environment. And doing some basic weight measuring during PhysEd is certainly bit a bad thing either.
It would be nicer of course if the parents didn't provide their kids with horrendously unhealthy food to begin with.

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Offline MasterShakezula

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Re: Individual Rights & National Interest
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2012, 09:11:39 AM »
I'm conflicted on this.

Part of me feels that the gov. should take a more hands-on approach to getting people to live healthily.

The other part feels that the people who end up ill as a result of their decisions and actions should know better and are at fault for their predicaments. 

I guess I'll side with the former and go for greater gov. involvement in taking action to make American society healthy through fighting obesity.  It's a good cause and that would benefit many, and obesity really could and would have a negative effect on the U.S. as a nation, compared to others.  I mean, it already has made the U.S. a sort of joke, in terms of health. 

Offline rumborak

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Re: Individual Rights & National Interest
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2012, 09:15:24 AM »
I don't actually think it's really all that much of a personal right issue. They're minors and need guidance, that's what the school is for. And that includes guidance in lifestyle choices.

rumborak
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Offline lordxizor

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Re: Individual Rights & National Interest
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2012, 09:18:14 AM »
Making school lunches healthier is a no brainer. Increasing the activity level of kids through more recess or gym class would be huge as well. You can educate parents all you want, but if they send their kids to school with chips, a Twinkie and a soda what can you do? Short of requiring all students to eat the school lunch (which would have to be free IMO), I don't see what the options really are.

Offline MasterShakezula

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Re: Individual Rights & National Interest
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2012, 09:20:53 AM »
So this thread is just about schools and obesity? 

Because, I think that there could be benefit to the gov. working to make these sort of changes not just in schools but everywhere, like the workplace, the food industry, maybe requiring people to be regularly examined for obesity, so on. 

I understand that could really prove unpopular with people who do not care for the gov. invading privacy, but this could do a lot to fight a war on obesity.  I mean, really, obesity is a threat that has a much bigger body count than terrorists, that's for sure.

Offline lordxizor

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Re: Individual Rights & National Interest
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2012, 09:32:55 AM »
I've always thought it would be fun to force food companies to label products as candy if they contain a certain % sugar, perhaps 30% or something. So Trix Cereal now must be labeled as Trix Candy since it's like half sugar. It would be a huge incentive to lower the added sugar content in products.

I think lack of exercise is as big if not a bigger problem than just eating crappily. Not sure how the government would help there. Perhaps tax breaks for people who work out at a gym at least 3 times a week or something.

Maybe tax breaks for people who are below a certain BMI (or a different, better metric) or who are lowering their BMI if they're over the limit?

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Individual Rights & National Interest
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2012, 09:34:13 AM »
I am very much against any attempts to forcefully regulate something like sugar on a large scale, because I don't think the government have the right to dictate what I should be eating. If I want to be a big fat dynamo, that's my freedom of choice (and yet despite my best attempts at a completely sedentary lifestyle, and 12 hours of computer a day, I am still within my normal BMI range).
Within school though, I don't have a problem with it though. The school could sell only healthier stuff, and some more physical activity couldn't hurt. A school is supposed to teach children and prepare them for life, so I think diet is within that scope. But it probably won't make much difference with the lazy parents who buy fast food for dinner anyway.
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Offline antigoon

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Re: Individual Rights & National Interest
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2012, 09:35:01 AM »
I don't actually think it's really all that much of a personal right issue. They're minors and need guidance, that's what the school is for. And that includes guidance in lifestyle choices.

rumborak


I agree with this. I went to public school until college and the food we were given was absolute garbage. Pizza and cookies every day, basically. Soda and candy galore. In middle school we actually had a student run store that sold basically any kind of candy you could ever want for pretty cheap, and my friends and I would spend at least part of our lunch money there every day. This was in a "nice" school district. We all thought it was awesome back then but looking back it seems horrific. I think it's a big issue, but not something that should be solved on a national level.

Offline soundgarden

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Re: Individual Rights & National Interest
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2012, 09:35:08 AM »
Not just obesity; any issue.

Is China wrong to impose a 1-child policy if within some decades the country cannot possibly sustain itself and can collapse.

Is Israel wrong to force all its citizens to serve in the military at some point, if there is constant threat to the nations safety?

Online El Barto

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Re: Individual Rights & National Interest
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2012, 10:15:20 AM »
Damn, the Libertarians and Republicans must all be a meeting somewhere or something.  We should already be well into the shitstorm stage by now.
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Offline antigoon

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Re: Individual Rights & National Interest
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2012, 10:29:23 AM »
:lol

Offline PowerSlave

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Re: Individual Rights & National Interest
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2012, 11:44:07 AM »
Damn, the Libertarians and Republicans must all be a meeting somewhere or something.  We should already be well into the shitstorm stage by now.

I'm here lol...

Reducing or completely getting rid of sugar in school lunches is ok. It's publicly funded and anyone that thinks that government shouldn't regulate it at that level can only herp the derp. Going after people in their private lives is pure shit. Another poster suggested the government "wage a war" on sugar. I would suggest that anyone that thinks that is a good idea needs to read some history books and see how well things go when our government takes it upon themselves to over regulate personal behaviour. Alcohol prohibition in the early 20th century and the current "war on drugs" that has been going on since the Nixon administration should be enough of a deterent from this type of thought.
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Offline MetalMike06

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Re: Individual Rights & National Interest
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2012, 01:57:10 PM »
Ending massive corn subsidization would be a good start, IMO. A majority of that stuff actually gets turned into corn syrup, HFCS, etc. for all the sugary drinks and foods we all whine about. It's largely why junk food is so cheap. I highly recommend a documentary called "King Corn".

Offline ReaPsTA

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Re: Individual Rights & National Interest
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2012, 02:46:16 PM »
Tough issue.

I like individual choice.  I hate the idea of "sin taxes" against products like soda or fast food.  Not only is the government run social engineering, but the government is too stupid to accomplish such a thing anyway.

On the other hand, the cost to society of dealing with obesity will eventually become unsustainable.  We can't let our current eating habits continue.

I agree with MetalMike.  Stop subsidizing corn.  That would be a good start.

Also, yeah, food in schools needs to not be so detrimental to your health.  I ate the stuff once upon a time.  I don't know how to process the government's supposed desire for healthy meals in schools being so contradictory to what's actually served.

But from there, I have no idea what to do.  Burger King is awful for your health, but that doesn't mean a person who eats properly shouldn't be able to enjoy it once and a while.
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Offline jsem

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Re: Individual Rights & National Interest
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2012, 03:30:07 PM »
"The cost to society". Hate that phrase, like everyone should collectively pay for everyone's expenses. I don't know, my libertarian apathetic side kicks in...

In my opinion, individual rights ALL the way. No compromises.

Offline Scheavo

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Re: Individual Rights & National Interest
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2012, 05:46:16 PM »
"The cost to society". Hate that phrase, like everyone should collectively pay for everyone's expenses. I don't know, my libertarian apathetic side kicks in...

That's just naive. You're going to feel that cost to society yourself, even if you're personally a god of health. Short of leaving the society, that is.

I agree with stopping corn subsidization. It's out of hand, part of the problem is that it's cheaper to get shit food that's not good for you, than fruits and vegetables. It's not simply junk food, most cows are corn fed, and just about every other livestock yes? This makes meat super cheap, so a burger and fries is often cheaper and more reasonable for a lot of people than buying the ingredients to make a meal. There is definitely a market element to the obesity problem.