My Spanish Professor just really screwed up...

[snapple]

Here's the thing: companies are not hiring people to improve the applicants' lives; they are hiring to improve the company itself. Most, if not all, hiring managers and HR people couldn't give two shitting pigs in a fuckfarm how difficult the job search is for anyone else out there, they are simply intent on improving and growing the company by filling the open position with a qualified person.

If I'm presented with two applicants, one out of work but has 7 years professional design experience, a solid portfolio and a resumé that shows his experienced qualifications and the other a recent college grad with little to no professional experience outside of coursework but an impressive portfolio and they are both willing to accept the job under the same salary, you can bet the entirety of your ass and balls that I'm going to hire the one with experience. I'm much more confident giving the open position in my company to someone who has already proven he can work and perform in the industry and won't force us to hold his or her hand through the acclimation process.

It may suck to be a college grad, but you'll have a very hard time getting any sympathy from a company with funds to spend, a position to fill and a bottom line to meet.

I get that. I'm just saying if you dismiss everyone because they're fresh out of college, you could miss out on someone special. I don't think anyone is owed any favors.

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

you can bet the entirety of your ass and balls

I so have to start using this line. 

[kirksnosehair]

Here's the thing: companies are not hiring people to improve the applicants' lives; they are hiring to improve the company itself. Most, if not all, hiring managers and HR people couldn't give two shitting pigs in a fuckfarm how difficult the job search is for anyone else out there, they are simply intent on improving and growing the company by filling the open position with a qualified person.

If I'm presented with two applicants, one out of work but has 7 years professional design experience, a solid portfolio and a resumé that shows his experienced qualifications and the other a recent college grad with little to no professional experience outside of coursework but an impressive portfolio and they are both willing to accept the job under the same salary, you can bet the entirety of your ass and balls that I'm going to hire the one with experience. I'm much more confident giving the open position in my company to someone who has already proven he can work and perform in the industry and won't force us to hold his or her hand through the acclimation process.

It may suck to be a college grad, but you'll have a very hard time getting any sympathy from a company with funds to spend, a position to fill and a bottom line to meet.

Precisely. 

snapple - the reason I hire interns is because one of the guys on my team who has now been with me for over 10 years and is my lead engineer started as an intern.  Dude is an incredibly talented engineer.  Easily the best guy on my team.  He's our "go to" guy.  So, I get what you're saying about potentially missing out on someone by dismissing college grads, but......Hyperplex is right on the money.  Given the choice between a recent college grad and a person with experience, there's no contest.  That's just how life is in today's business world. 

Things were different 10 years ago.  The economy was fucking booming and it was hard to find anyone with skills and experience to work in the I.T. field.  I had two positions back in 2001 that went unfilled for the entire year.  I was doing the work of three people, often putting in 80 or 90 hours a week.  It was brutal.  That's how I ended up hiring my lead guy.  Out of sheer desperation I went down to a couple of local colleges and put up some flyers advertising for paid internships and he applied.  When he graduated I ended up making him an offer. 

Contrast that with today.  I got 1200 freaking applicants for an entry-level help desk support tech position.  And that was after the ad being up for just three days.  I have several applicants that are qualified for MY position (hell, some of them are overqualified for my position) and whose most recent jobs were earning well into 6 figures, and in their cover letters they are practically begging me for this $50k per year spot doing what amounts to schmuck work. 

[AcidLameLTE]

Just give me the job.

We're best friends, right?

[antigoon]

Here's the thing: companies are not hiring people to improve the applicants' lives; they are hiring to improve the company itself. Most, if not all, hiring managers and HR people couldn't give two shitting pigs in a fuckfarm how difficult the job search is for anyone else out there, they are simply intent on improving and growing the company by filling the open position with a qualified person.

If I'm presented with two applicants, one out of work but has 7 years professional design experience, a solid portfolio and a resumé that shows his experienced qualifications and the other a recent college grad with little to no professional experience outside of coursework but an impressive portfolio and they are both willing to accept the job under the same salary, you can bet the entirety of your ass and balls that I'm going to hire the one with experience. I'm much more confident giving the open position in my company to someone who has already proven he can work and perform in the industry and won't force us to hold his or her hand through the acclimation process.

It may suck to be a college grad, but you'll have a very hard time getting any sympathy from a company with funds to spend, a position to fill and a bottom line to meet.

Contrast that with today.  I got 1200 freaking applicants for an entry-level help desk support tech position.  And that was after the ad being up for just three days.  I have several applicants that are qualified for MY position (hell, some of them are overqualified for my position) and whose most recent jobs were earning well into 6 figures, and in their cover letters they are practically begging me for this $50k per year spot doing what amounts to schmuck work. 

This is so depressing.

[theseoafs]

Here's the thing: companies are not hiring people to improve the applicants' lives; they are hiring to improve the company itself. Most, if not all, hiring managers and HR people couldn't give two shitting pigs in a fuckfarm how difficult the job search is for anyone else out there, they are simply intent on improving and growing the company by filling the open position with a qualified person.

If I'm presented with two applicants, one out of work but has 7 years professional design experience, a solid portfolio and a resumé that shows his experienced qualifications and the other a recent college grad with little to no professional experience outside of coursework but an impressive portfolio and they are both willing to accept the job under the same salary, you can bet the entirety of your ass and balls that I'm going to hire the one with experience. I'm much more confident giving the open position in my company to someone who has already proven he can work and perform in the industry and won't force us to hold his or her hand through the acclimation process.

It may suck to be a college grad, but you'll have a very hard time getting any sympathy from a company with funds to spend, a position to fill and a bottom line to meet.

Contrast that with today.  I got 1200 freaking applicants for an entry-level help desk support tech position.  And that was after the ad being up for just three days.  I have several applicants that are qualified for MY position (hell, some of them are overqualified for my position) and whose most recent jobs were earning well into 6 figures, and in their cover letters they are practically begging me for this $50k per year spot doing what amounts to schmuck work. 

This is so depressing.

Hell yes it is.

[Hyperplex]

Sorry guys....the professional world can be really good at straightening one's colon with a rusty iron stick.

[antigoon]

It's good motivation. The legal jobs market is shit right now, but if I can keep cranking out As I should stand a fair chance.

[WebRaider]

nm

[lonestar]

I gotta say that next time I am frustrated with my job, I just need to read this thread, reflect on the fact that I'm a union employee at a landmark hotel with strong seniority, man up, shut the fuck up, and be very grateful.

[Hyperplex]

I gotta say that next time I am frustrated with my job, I just need to read this thread, reflect on the fact that I'm a union employee at a landmark hotel with strong seniority, man up, shut the fuck up, and be very grateful.

Perspective, man. Perspective.

[rumborak]

Regarding the OP, another thing: Isn't the teacher going to miss a response from whoever she actually intended to send the thing to?

rumborak

[theseoafs]

She meant to send it to the OP, but she just sent the wrong thing (she sent the final itself as opposed to the review).

[Chino]

Regarding the OP, another thing: Isn't the teacher going to miss a response from whoever she actually intended to send the thing to?

rumborak

No.

We had powerpoint presentations last week. Mine kicked ass, I put a lot of work into it. She liked it so much she asked if I would be willing to present it at the annual language fair. She also offered me 10 bonus points on whichever exam I choose if I were to agree. The problem was, the language fair was at the same time as our class, which also happened to be the review day for our final. The professor handed out and went over a review guide with the class to prepare them for the final exam next week. She went to email me the guide that she passed out in class, but emailed me the final itself. She probably had the in class one named "Final Exam Review", or something like that, and the one I got was "Final Exam Actual". She must have clicked the wrong file on of her flash drive.

One of the other reasons why I don't feel so bad is because we have online homework assigned every day that we have class. These are usually only open until the next class period. I scored a 100% on these for the semester. I did every assignment as soon as it was open, and put a lot of time and effort into them. I didn't miss a single assignment all semester, and I should mention that our homework grade counts as a full exam grade (or 20% of our final grade). More than half the class was below a 60 for the homework with two weeks left of class. She reopened all of the closed assignments in order to allow those who didn't do most of them to receive FULL credit on them. To me that is very unfair and it aggrivates the fuck out of me. 

[LieLowTheWantedMan]

Personally, I would do it too. I've never cheated before, cause I generally have a great memory for tests, but I was kinda born without the emotions of guilt or shame I guess. Haha.

[Super Dude]

By the way, great job writing all about it on the Internet.

[Fluffy Lothario]

Everything Kirk has said in this thread is the reason why I skipped doing post-grad, incurring another 10-15k of debt, and went out and got a few years' "head start" of intern experience instead. (I did intend to go back eventually and do post-grad, and kind of still do, but it really depends on how things pan out in the next few years, and whether I feel I'm going to need it). I still don't know if it was the right choice, but that an employer might think the way he does was my reasoning.

Oh, and by the way, those "bullshit" classes that aren't directly tied to your major are required for a reason. 

YES. To me, university (college, whatever) isn't about busting your ass on the necessary papers so you can get out while just scraping through the classes you picked to make up the numbers, it's about proving how you can deal with the pressure of the entire experience. If I was hiring and looked at someone who had amazing grades in their major but everything else was shite, I doubt I'd feel inclined to go with them. And if I even suspected they might have cheated on any course, regardless of whether it was an 'important' one or not, they wouldn't stand a chance.

[wolfandwolfandwolf]

Right now you have the opportunity to be as honest of a man as you will ever be given the chance to be, take it.

This.  I have made the mistake of not giving back improperly counted back change (twice), and cheated on a government exam my first freshman semester.  I don't beat myself up over it anymore, but it was not one of my finer moments, to be sure.

[Elite]

Absolutely, tell her. As we say in German, "lies have short legs".

rumborak

bullshit. that's english

 

[axeman90210]

Well, if nothing else this thread makes me feel better about having a hard time finding a job since I graduated

[slycordinator]

With the whole "ignoring recent grads", I know of a local biotech firm that literally got over 100 applicants for a position cleaning mouse cages. They ended up throwing away all the applications except 6-7 who had some sort of rodent laboratory certification, despite the fact that the job description requires little-to-nothing going on upstairs (they clean up mouse shit, ffs).

[Hyperplex]

Bear in mind, I didn't say I'd ignore a recent grad, just that between a grad and a seasoned veteran, the job goes to the vet.

[slycordinator]

And I was just pointing out that with the way the economy is, situations like that are pretty much guaranteed to occur.

[Hyperplex]

I understand. Nothing is ever easy or simple.

[jingle.boy]

Wow... this was quite the thread to miss out on today.  Couple of things to address/retort:

Kev... since you basically quoted my post, I can tell you with 100% certainty, that I would tell the teacher.  Doing the right thing isn't always popular, and the popular thing isn't always right.  Seriously, integrity is a non-starter for me... you have it, or you don't.  There's no "yeah, I act with integrity most of the time ... unless it's in my best interest not to".   Personally, I do the right thing... ALWAYS.  Sometime's it's hard to figure out what "the right thing" is, but once you have it figured out, there's no questioning your next move.

As it relates to a dog-eat-dog world, that doesn't meant lie/cheat/steal.  Barry... I'm sure it goes without saying that all of the risks you took to elevate your career were done without compromising any moral standards.

On the issue of hiring, and shying away from college grads ... This is a very short-sighted tactic (and unfortunately it's very prevalent in my business/industry too), and is only going to fuck ourselves in ... oh, say 10 years or so, when we don't have a new crop of talent that's been cultivated properly.  You know the old saying, you reap what you sow.  It is reality though.

Fluffy... part 2 was a great post.  To all the students here, school is simply a prep for the rest of your life.  If you simply cheated your way through school, all you've done is short-changed yourself, and the rest of your life.  Just so you know, you may be able to cheat on a test, but once you're out of school, you can't cheat on life.

And to Chino... dude, if you really think your job prospects are affected by your GPA, and thus your mark in this course, and thus your mark on this exam... your sadly mistaken.  However, the measure of anyone's worth is affected by the choices they make, and the actions they take.  History is filled with bad deeds by individuals who can "justify" the means.

[senecadawg2]

Now for the twist in the story...

I am the Spanish Professor. Chino, como puedes justificar sus acciones diciendo que necesitas esta nota para obtener un trabajo bueno? Si la nota es tan imortante para tu futuro, por que no puedes estudiar mas? La seleccion 'correcto' es completamente obvio.

0%

[LieLowTheWantedMan]

Now for the twist in the story...

I am the Spanish Professor. Chino, como puedes justificar sus acciones diciendo que necesitas esta nota para obtener un trabajo bueno? Si la nota es tan imortante para tu futuro, por que no puedes estudiar mas? La seleccion 'correcto' es completamente obvio.

0%

Since you're speaking Spanish, you just called him Chinese!

[Chino]

Now for the twist in the story...

I am the Spanish Professor. Chino, como puedes justificar sus acciones diciendo que necesitas esta nota para obtener un trabajo bueno? Si la nota es tan imortante para tu futuro, por que no puedes estudiar mas? La seleccion 'correcto' es completamente obvio.

0%

No hay suficientes horas en un dia. Dedico todo mi tiempo para las clases que me parecen mas importantes. No tengo tiempo los fines de semana porque trabajo doce horas el sabado y once horas el domingo

(other than the lack of accent marks, I think that's correct)

[senecadawg2]

Now for the twist in the story...

I am the Spanish Professor. Chino, como puedes justificar sus acciones diciendo que necesitas esta nota para obtener un trabajo bueno? Si la nota es tan imortante para tu futuro, por que no puedes estudiar mas? La seleccion 'correcto' es completamente obvio.

0%

Since you're speaking Spanish, you just called him Chinese!

, good catch.

Also, Chino... That is a lot of work you've been doing on your weekends.

[Chino]

Now for the twist in the story...

I am the Spanish Professor. Chino, como puedes justificar sus acciones diciendo que necesitas esta nota para obtener un trabajo bueno? Si la nota es tan imortante para tu futuro, por que no puedes estudiar mas? La seleccion 'correcto' es completamente obvio.

0%

Since you're speaking Spanish, you just called him Chinese!

, good catch.

Also, Chino... That is a lot of work you've been doing on your weekends.

I'm aware. I'm at school all day Mon-Fri, I need to make as much money as I can on the days I don't have classes.

[senecadawg2]

Well, concerning the final, I cannot tell you what to do. Nor can anyone else here on DTF. Ultimately, it is your decision to make and it is not my place to preach morals to a stranger across the internet. I just hope you do what is best for yourself.

[ddtonfire]

Woo! Cheat in school and then brag about it on the internet!

[KevShmev]

Kev... since you basically quoted my post, I can tell you with 100% certainty, that I would tell the teacher.  Doing the right thing isn't always popular, and the popular thing isn't always right.  Seriously, integrity is a non-starter for me... you have it, or you don't.  There's no "yeah, I act with integrity most of the time ... unless it's in my best interest not to".   Personally, I do the right thing... ALWAYS.  Sometime's it's hard to figure out what "the right thing" is, but once you have it figured out, there's no questioning your next move.

 

I was not singling you or anyone else here out when I said that.  I know you know that, but just wanted to say it.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Yo debería ser tu maestro de español.

[senecadawg2]

Tendrá pelear conmigo para el trabajo.