CANCELLED: 2012-05-04 - Century Theater - Beijing, CHN

[cyberdrummer]

The Beijing show is reluctantly canceled.

Due to circumstances beyond the control of Dream Theater we are forced to cancel the show on May 4, 2012, at the Century Theatre.

Unfortunately the local organizers of the show were not able to secure the necessary working visas in time for the Band to properly enter the country.

We at Dream Theater are truly sorry for any inconveniences.

[cosmicwxdude]

 

[Nick]

An open letter from the promoter, translated by PerpetualChange.

"Dear John Petrucci,

I am Mel from Guitar China, a associate of Nike and Xoundforce. I also participated in the organization of Dream Theater's first performance in China
, in 2008.

While I believe Nike has already said everything needed, I have read your latest apology and, as one of the organizers and someone who knows your fans well, I feel it necessary to communicate with you once more, for the sake of both myself and all of your numerous fans.

It is undeniable that we were late one day-- just one day-- in getting all of the required documents to you. Those documents, however, were the responsibility of the government, and we cannot determine the speed at which they will operate. While we personally had flown over and were willing to make a big investment in order to change this, unfortunately you were not even able provide us with the 20 minutes we asked for in order to handle these matters.
Recently, there's been a sensation in the metal community: Brazil's "Metal Open Air" festival, the largest of its kind ever, faced a serious setback, which caused Anthrax, Blind Guardian, and bands from 30 other countries to decline to perform, even though they had already arrived in Brazil. Because of safety issues, Megadeth's performance was cut short, and sound operators left in the middle of the performance because they knew they wouldn't be receiving any wages. Those tens of thousands of fans who did show up complained that there weren't enough restrooms or drinking water available. The organizer of the event faced criticism from everywhere, but Megadeth were praised for their attitude through this all. Though plenty of big-name bands refused to play, Megadeth did perform, and played until the wee hours in the morning, not concluding until 3 am. Dave Mustaine released a statement which said: "We weren't playing for the promoter anymore; we were playing for the people! ...I'd heard that the fans had to spend money for water when they'd already spent a lot on a ticket. I'll never do business with that promoter again. Last night was for you fans."

In China, there are even less concerts than there are in Brazil. The bands that come here are few, and we certainly can not take responsibility as promoters. This concert was an opportunity for you, John Petrucci, to become a hero in the eyes of the Chinese fans. Unfortunately, now we see that you don't have the same courage as Dave Mustaine!

Dave Mustaine cares about his fans. Now, I'm not sure if Dream Theater really care about their Chinese fans. From the looks of it, they don't.

1500 fans from all over China were going to come to your concert. Some of them had asked for vacation time so they could come; others had already bought their plain or train tickets (we know of one fan who's already stayed in the station over night!). Fans from all over the country were coming. Fans who aren't from Beijing would have made up 1/3rd of the audience. Some of them used a month's worth of wages to buy their ticket and pay for their transportation to the venue, all for Dream Theater. Some of them payed nearly all of what they had. Even if us promoters and the government made a mistake or can be blamed for not being efficient enough, the fans have done nothing wrong, They had been enthusiastically waiting for this, and many even had presents personally made for you which they were waiting to give you.

We've made our greatest effort and spared no expense to put on this concert; you, on the other hand, had plenty of time and many chances to handle the visa. The fault, then, is yours. Although you've used the one-day of being late as a premise for not coming at all, that was not something we could control. Furthermore, you did not handle what you were supposed to handle. What you were able to control as Dream Theater's "new leaders" was not done well enough. How does that compare with how Mike Portnoy handled things?

In 2008, Mike Portnoy was the leader of Dream Theater: The first time you came to China, it was also on tourist visas and the conditions of the performance (the space and equipment) were also not up to everyone's expectations. Plus, the guesthouse was only 4 stars. Mike Portnoy released a statement saying so. Yet Dream Theater still performed. (You should remember, or go and have a look at your passports and see that they're tourist visas).

No, you have a new leader. You already have come to China before; moreover, this time you have the chance to handled the work visas, the site, and the equipment (which you all brought from America yourselves); and you have a 5 star hotel. Everything is better than it was last time around, and yet you've given up. You simply have not given us a chance; you haven't given the Chinese fans a chance.
So it looks like Mike Portnoy was really more "rock 'n roll" then you all.

As for you, John Petrucci. Good-bye. You play the guitar very well, but we won't be able to appreciate it anymore. At least not me.

Dream Theater really doesn't have many fans in China and Guitar Channel is a small company in China, with only me and two others (Nike and Xoundforce) handling the performances. Despite all that, we have over 1 million members. We practically live-broadcasted our trip to you in Japan
over the last 48 hours, which our fans called a "rescue operation", but you never gave us a chance.

For you all, you're just not performing one event and still taking your $100,000+ USD performance fee. But for a small company like ours, this has left us with almost nothing left-- though that's not what's important. We know this is reasonable in your western way of thinking. But our Asian blood tells us that some things can't be settled the "reasonable" way; and that "reason" does not always lead to happiness.

Guitar China covers nearly every fan of rock music in all of China. I believe you'll be able to deal with the influence this has had on you. But even though we lost, our efforts have won us respect. Though you've been reasonable and polite enough to apologize, you've do lost China. You will never be able to enter this market and reach those here who really love music.

As of now, we are planning to refund those who bought tickets. Though we've already made the tickets, the ticket cards, the posters, and playbills, we are going to give them to the concert-goers as presents, so they can remember this. It's a rare chance for someone to obtain an untorn ticket.

One more unfortunate thing I'd like to tell you, about your apology. Most of the Chinese fans won't be able to receive it, which is ironic. Was it for us Chinese fans, because you'd still like our support?

If you understand Chinese, or know someone who does, why not check out the world's largest guitar forum here:

https://bbs.guitarchina.com/thread-1401648-1-1.html https://bbs.guitarchina.com/thread-1401828-1-1.html

The new DT thread already has 150000 hits, and this forum has a million fans, which is much more influential than your facebook.
For the time being, this is all I have to say.

When I had access to you in 2008, I didn't ask for your signature or a picture with you. I just hoped that you would come again. Your smile cheated me. Everyone has a dream; we just don't want anything to do with your Dream anymore."

[jingle.boy]

Wreaks of sour grapes.  One thing stands out to me... this dude claims 1 million members, and that their outfit "covers nearly every fan of rock music in all of China".  Only 1 million rock fans in China, a population of over 1.3 BILLION!?!  Yeah, this guy just lost all credibility IMO.  And if he speaks for over 1 million fans, he couldn't promote the band to anything other than a venue that supports 1500 people?

With a government controlled society like China is, I wouldn't blame anyone for not making sure all paperwork was 100% on the up-and-up.  Show up with incorrect or missing paperwork, and end up in jail for a month.  No thanks.

Mel is a douche.

[Nick]

Yeah, I'm rather sure all of what they are griping about is the promoters responsibility, and with the logistics involved in an Asian tour there is no easy way to just re-schedule or work around this sort of thing.

[Dreamer81]

well, seem a bit odd, they don' seem people who treat problem like this in this manner , not even providing 20 minutes to a promoter?? come on..

Good move  quoting MP that insulted all the chinese people...MP: I always busted my ass and did absolutely everything for the fans... except those Chinese gooks, they can go fuck themselves.

[chwik]

Andy McKee posted the following under the comment section on JP's facebook. Should clear things up.


"Andy McKee: I know the truth, John. I am sorry some of these "fans" are not willing to listen to you.

Don't any of you find it curious that this ENTIRE Asian tour is going off just fine EXCEPT for the China show? We submitted all of our information at the same time to every country (Korea, Japan, Indonesia, South Korea, Singapore, Thailand, China) and we have had absolutely no problem except for this show.

Your anger is misguided.

That is all I will say."

[Nick]

Yup. People should either be angry at the promoter, or possibly the Chinese government, but not at DT.

[Orbert]

I don't understand the "20 minutes" thing.  Okay, there's a few things I don't follow about that statement from Mel, but it seems to come down to a screwup that Mel says would've taken 20 minutes to clear up, but JP wouldn't give it to him.  Obviously, that's an oversimplification, and only his side of it, but what's that about?

[comment]

@OP and Mel's letter: 

Sorry to hear the Chinese fans won't get to hear DT this tour.  I hope they can work something out in the near future that brings them some satisfaction.  Especially for those who would sacrifice so much to attend a concert.  I won't take it for granted if I can come up with the funds to see DT this tour. 

I'll haft to talk to my Chinese friends about this now.  I don't know hardly anything about Chinese business practices or government, but what little I know is a lot of press and even experience with less then honorable ways of doing things.  At this point, Andy McKee's quote says a lot more then a diatribe from a business that's liable.  And from a purely business perspective, something seems off when there's no gain for a band to lose favor in such a large emergent market with an honorable people.     

[comment]

I don't understand the "20 minutes" thing.  Okay, there's a few things I don't follow about that statement from Mel, but it seems to come down to a screwup that Mel says would've taken 20 minutes to clear up, but JP wouldn't give it to him.  Obviously, that's an oversimplification, and only his side of it, but what's that about?

[ResultsMayVary]

I hate to say it, but if you're late giving someone something that they need on a deadline, then it's your fault. Clean cut situation here and no blame on DT or JP.

[John94]

I can see why the fans would be disappointed but blame their promoters not DT

I hate to say it, but if you're late giving someone something that they need on a deadline, then it's your fault. Clean cut situation here and no blame on DT or JP.

I completely agree with you.

Andy McKee hit the nail on the head. I hate the way people moan at the band who want to play there and unfortunately beyond their control, can't. I'm pretty sure the Austrailian and NZE fans are disappointed that they didn't even have a chance to get the band play in their country. It would completely put me off playing there again.

[ResultsMayVary]

All this promoter did was air his frustration and probably made JP/DT mad enough that they will probably never come back to China (unless a different promotion company organized the show). They shot themselves in the foot, so to speak.

[KevShmev]

Yeah, someone hand that guy a crying towel.  They were late, therefore they blew it.  End of story.

[Nick]

And for those who don't know, this statement caused a bunch of Chinese fans to then go to JP's facebook wall and complain, and JP was actually kind enough to address the situation.

[SystematicThought]

Did this guy overlook the fact that MP blacklisted the country from their tours and said he would never play there again?

[slycordinator]

So the person in charge of getting them work visas on-time is saying that nothing was done wrong because last time the band came to perform on tourist visas instead.

That's like a tax attorney saying it's ok to lie about the amount of donations you make because you didn't get caught before.

[TAC]

And for those who don't know, this statement caused a bunch of Chinese fans to then go to JP's facebook wall and complain, and JP was actually kind enough to address the situation.

What did JP say?

EDIT: Never mind. I found JP's statement.
"To Ziran, Guo, Renton, Zelda, Terence and all of our Chinese fans. Myself and the members of DT are truly sorry about having to cancel our show in Beijing.

I assure you that we were really looking forward to playing in your great country and are all very sad to have canceled the show. The reason is as we stated that the proper work visas needed for us to enter into the country and perform were not obtained in time. We were all ready and psyched to come and play!

I understand your disappointment and please know that we too are all very upset. After all, we are out here on the road to play music for our fans and it was our desire to come and play for you. Hopefully in the future we'll be able to make it up to you and we look forward to your continued support!"

[Tis BOOLsheet]

The fact of the matter is that it's incredibly difficult to do business in China and that includes these type of events. I remember Mr. Big similarly canceled their China dates at the last moment. To say "Dream Theater doesn't care about China" or whatever that other guy said in the other post in the other section is ridiculous. DT would play there if they could. Other entertainment businesses have been trying to do stuff in China for years. It's just doing stuff there is unnecessarily complicated and so is getting visas. If you want to point fingers at someone or something, point it at your government. They make doing events unnecessarily complicated. It's not DT's fault, though yes, their promoters should have had everything in on time.

[Qifei]

Hi. I want to say something here because I hope you guys don't feel bad.
We do admitt that it is totally our fault not to provide the visa in time. But we just hope to see a explanation of why the one day late results the cancellation. That's right. They don't really need to explain since we broke the rule first.
But as someone said "DT doesn't care Beijing's market." is wrong. So they could say more to us.
It is their silence that make us feel that they might don't really care this cancellation. We treated them like heroes and hope they care us.
You know sometimes people just need a explanation.

[jammindude]

The more details I gather about this story...the more I really don't understand what the complaint is all about.  These are the kinds of posts I would have made...WHEN I WAS 12!   

Everyone who is complaining about the cancelled date is doing nothing but showing the world that they have an extremely immature grasp of the situation. 

I am NOT speaking the the Chinese fans as a whole...just at the individual persons who are making a public hissy fit about it.

Anyone....ANYONE who makes the claim "It's was only ONE DAY!" is *GROSSLY* oversimplifying the complexity of not just scheduling a concert...but scheduling an entire world tour with an entourage.

Seriously...to those who are whining about this.  HOW OLD ARE YOU?   

[robwebster]

The more details I gather about this story...the more I really don't understand what the complaint is all about.  These are the kinds of posts I would have made...WHEN I WAS 12!   

Everyone who is complaining about the cancelled date is doing nothing but showing the world that they have an extremely immature grasp of the situation. 

I am NOT speaking the the Chinese fans as a whole...just at the individual persons who are making a public hissy fit about it.

Anyone....ANYONE who makes the claim "It's was only ONE DAY!" is *GROSSLY* oversimplifying the complexity of not just scheduling a concert...but scheduling an entire world tour with an entourage.

Seriously...to those who are whining about this.  HOW OLD ARE YOU?

Keep in mind that they don't host as many rock gigs in China. While the amount of behind-the-scenes planning and organisation that goes into one of these things might seem obvious to a cynical Westerner who's seen this kind of thing however-many times before, the net result of all that planning should, hopefully, be an event that looks as well-oiled and basically effortless as a band sweeping onto a stage and simply playing some notes. All that backstage madness is more or less invisible to the average punter. If you didn't know, you wouldn't guess it was there... and if rock gigs were as rare over here as they were over there, why would you know?

[Madman Shepherd]

Hi. I want to say something here because I hope you guys don't feel bad.
We do admitt that it is totally our fault not to provide the visa in time. But we just hope to see a explanation of why the one day late results the cancellation.

There is a deadline for a reason.  How would they know when they weren't delivered in time if they would be there the next day, or the next day, or that week sometime?  Every single day that passes makes it more difficult to cancel. 

It looks as if DT was doing the honorable thing by cancelling when they did in order to give people time to get refund on hotel rooms, tickets, etc.

The statement issued by the promoter is also one of the most passive aggressive overly emotional diatribes I have ever read.  If anything will prevent Dream Theater from playing in China in the future, it will be attitudes like his.

I'm sorry you did not get to see them.  It must hurt very bad.  I know I am lucky to have had the opportunity to see them several times and I want nothing more for fans all over the world to have the same experience.  I just hope you can look at both sides and realize how heartbreaking a decision it must have been and how much of a risk it was to even consider playing in that country to begin with.  DT put a lot on the line for this and unfortunately it didn't work out to anyones favor.  They really aren't to blame though. 

[jammindude]

The more details I gather about this story...the more I really don't understand what the complaint is all about.  These are the kinds of posts I would have made...WHEN I WAS 12!   

Everyone who is complaining about the cancelled date is doing nothing but showing the world that they have an extremely immature grasp of the situation. 

I am NOT speaking the the Chinese fans as a whole...just at the individual persons who are making a public hissy fit about it.

Anyone....ANYONE who makes the claim "It's was only ONE DAY!" is *GROSSLY* oversimplifying the complexity of not just scheduling a concert...but scheduling an entire world tour with an entourage.

Seriously...to those who are whining about this.  HOW OLD ARE YOU?

Keep in mind that they don't host as many rock gigs in China. While the amount of behind-the-scenes planning and organisation that goes into one of these things might seem obvious to a cynical Westerner who's seen this kind of thing however-many times before, the net result of all that planning should, hopefully, be an event that looks as well-oiled and basically effortless as a band sweeping onto a stage and simply playing some notes.

To me, the only flaw in that logic is that by their own admission, they had to go through a million hoops just to get that visa in the first place.   Imagine if, once it was done, they had to change everything and do it *all over again*...

They have the precedent of going through the mayhem of trying to get something scheduled that's extremely difficult. And even after having it explained to them using situations they've already been through as an example, they're still *implying* that DT didn't take care of them.    It honestly feels like having a conversation with a stubborn tween.   

[Qifei]

The more details I gather about this story...the more I really don't understand what the complaint is all about.  These are the kinds of posts I would have made...WHEN I WAS 12!   

Everyone who is complaining about the cancelled date is doing nothing but showing the world that they have an extremely immature grasp of the situation. 

I am NOT speaking the the Chinese fans as a whole...just at the individual persons who are making a public hissy fit about it.

Anyone....ANYONE who makes the claim "It's was only ONE DAY!" is *GROSSLY* oversimplifying the complexity of not just scheduling a concert...but scheduling an entire world tour with an entourage.

Seriously...to those who are whining about this.  HOW OLD ARE YOU?

I know one day can make many things happen. And I am not saying they are bad because they don't accept the one day thing. But why they don't explain it. Like "oh man since u didn't give the visa in time so we canceled the flight." or even just" sorry that one day really makes many things happen, which makes us unable to get to your country." These are all cool! I just want a saying.
I am 22 by the way.

[ResultsMayVary]

Hi. I want to say something here because I hope you guys don't feel bad.
We do admitt that it is totally our fault not to provide the visa in time. But we just hope to see a explanation of why the one day late results the cancellation.

There is a deadline for a reason.  How would they know when they weren't delivered in time if they would be there the next day, or the next day, or that week sometime?  Every single day that passes makes it more difficult to cancel. 

It looks as if DT was doing the honorable thing by cancelling when they did in order to give people time to get refund on hotel rooms, tickets, etc.

The statement issued by the promoter is also one of the most passive aggressive overly emotional diatribes I have ever read.  If anything will prevent Dream Theater from playing in China in the future, it will be attitudes like his.

I'm sorry you did not get to see them.  It must hurt very bad.  I know I am lucky to have had the opportunity to see them several times and I want nothing more for fans all over the world to have the same experience.  I just hope you can look at both sides and realize how heartbreaking a decision it must have been and how much of a risk it was to even consider playing in that country to begin with.  DT put a lot on the line for this and unfortunately it didn't work out to anyones favor.  They really aren't to blame though.

+1

Perfect explanation of why they likely canceled.

[Nick]

I agree with Madman's comments on the tone. People were obviously very upset about this, and with a heavy amount of blame about to come down on the promoter it simply looked as if he wanted to turn (according to some of his words) all of China against Dream Theater in an effort to pass the blame.

[Tis BOOLsheet]

the promoter must be on his period.

[Nick]

From JP's wife:

I just want to say there is nothing fake about John's apology and he was really upset that they weren't playing the show, especially after the Mexico incident which he was angry about also. Dear Chinese fans, All the guys in Dream Theater want to play in your country and are frustrated with the situation and unfortunately there was a problem obtaining the proper working visas, therefore Dream Theater was not allowed to play the scheduled show. They were truly looking forward to playing in China. It is not as simple as a phone call, and they would much rather be performing for you than sitting in a hotel room when they were supposed to be playing. It's really easy to speculate about what happened, but the guys have no control over it.

[Jay.Ess]

edit: ^ There we go

[SnakeEyes]

So..... JP and his wife keep talking about how unfortunate it was that DT couldn't play, but.... they don't mention the "20 minutes" thing and they don't respond to the "DT took 100k and didn't play a note"criticisms.  I'd like to hear responses to THOSE things....

[Orbert]

Yeah, I'm still curious about the "20 minutes" thing.

[slycordinator]

This also tells you how incredibly stupid the promoter is.

The promoter needs 20 minutes to figure out what was going on and instead of taking that 20 minutes and just calling the band back anyway, he sat there fuming about how the band weren't playing nice. He had a bunch of money riding on this and his reputation, so instead of doing something that could've gotten them back on-track, he played the victim.

In fact, even if things didn't go well after taking said 20 minutes, it would've looked like an act of good faith to show that even when they told him to pound sand, he still tried to salvage the situation.

[jingle.boy]

So..... JP and his wife keep talking about how unfortunate it was that DT couldn't play, but.... they don't mention the "20 minutes" thing and they don't respond to the "DT took 100k and didn't play a note"criticisms.  I'd like to hear responses to THOSE things....

I'm sure cancellation fees in any entertainment or booking arrangement are standard.  Otherwise, the bookers/promoters could cancel for any reason they chose, leaving the band or speaker high and dry, with a bunch of costs they've already incurred to perform.  They probably can't recoup many (if any) of those costs either.

As for the 20 minutes... a deadline is a deadline.  As someone already posted, how were they to know the issue would be resolved in 20 minutes?  For all we know, they could've given extensions already, or been told "I just need 20 more minutes" 10 times already.

Bottom line is the promoter didn't fulfill their obligations, and then publicly whined and painted DT as the 'bad guy'.  As far as I'm concerned, DT has no explaining to do at all.  Look at  it this way, if the promoter had completely fallen on their sword and admitted the fault was all their's, would you expect DT needed to explain anything?  Likely not.   I wouldn't think people here would put more stock in what this Chinese promoter had to rant about (and as I already said, he lost all credibility in my mind) over DT, whom we all know are completely on the up-and-up with their approach to the business of entertaining their fans.